General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

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abaddon said:
. . . The 238K figure comes from the feverish thoughts (if such they can be so described) of deniers. . . .
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Actually - my memory refreshed a bit - maybe from Ike - and since then used as a strawman by deniers? Long since "revised" based on more accurate investigations.
 
JimRizoli said:
238,000 from here not that it matters to you..
https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2015/04/14/how-many-prisoners-were-murdered-at-dachau/

JR
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Jim, I asked for the source, which clearly mattered to me, or I wouldn't have asked it - and, as you can see, I replied to your rather bewildering link; but please do not continue to try childish insults like this and to make snarkish assumptions about me or other members of this discussion forum. It does matter to me, and you don't know differently. Best, LC
 
It really takes a certain sort of chutzpah to use your own blatherings as a "source."
 
LemmyCaution said:
Actually - my memory refreshed a bit - maybe from Ike - and since then used as a strawman by deniers? Long since "revised" based on more accurate investigations.
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The given figure is in the region of 30K.

Deniers don't care. 30,000 deaths don't matter to them. To them, 30,000 deaths is a good thing. It matters not a whit whether they were jews at all. If Hitler said they must die, then it must be a good thing. Hitler must always be right. Like he was right about Stalingrad.

Most of the Dachau victims were not jews anyway. How do they feature that?

Is it , in their mind, acceptable to butcher one's political opponents? Their answer seems to be yes.

Does this not preclude playing the freedom of speech card? Of course it does.
 
abaddon said:
The given figure is in the region of 30K.

Deniers don't care. 30,000 deaths don't matter to them. To them, 30,000 deaths is a good thing. It matters not a whit whether they were jews at all. If Hitler said they must die, then it must be a good thing. Hitler must always be right. Like he was right about Stalingrad.

Most of the Dachau victims were not jews anyway. How do they feature that?

Is it , in their mind, acceptable to butcher one's political opponents? Their answer seems to be yes.

Does this not preclude playing the freedom of speech card? Of course it does.
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Indeed. DianeKayKing is hopelessly confused about the number of deaths, the Jewish death toll, and by implication the nature of the Dachau camp. I finally decided to do DianeKayKing's work for her and to google some phrases from her post to locate the source - and it appears that her source was the equally confused - and monstrously dishonest - Harwood from Did 6 Million Really Die? Worthless junk.

I guess it beats reading from the Rizoli's FramGovFreed user group - but not by a lot.
 
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LemmyCaution said:
Actually - my memory refreshed a bit - maybe from Ike - and since then used as a strawman by deniers? Long since "revised" based on more accurate investigations.
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And allow me to add. When one visits the place, it is eerie. I don't know who came up with that number TBH.

This is what was actually done there. Inmates were tested unto death by sub-zero submersion unto death, oxygen deprivation unto death, and so forth.

I could post footage of such, but I decline to do so, it is simply too distressing to watch some emaciated guinea pig slowly die in agony.
 
Thanks to all the good folks here who are taking the time to again debunk this old material about the holocaust. Watching it I am reminded of a lame Gish gallop that is more like a one legged-stumble.

The level of anti-holocaust argument here is so inept as to be at a cartoon level. I debunk a lot of pseudo archaeology and the stuff Jim, HD and Diane, etc., seems at the same level of sophistication as Daniken and Sitchin was to archaeology. Painfully amateurish science/history garbage.

Thanks guys.
 
Border Reiver said:
Not that you'll follow the link, read it or actually learn, but Dachau never had a gas chamber, nor has anyone claimed it had.
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That's what you say now but that's not what people have been saying for all these years they claimed there was a gas chamber there, in fact they claim they were gas Chambers in most of the German camps. Then the revisionist got wind of it all then exposed the lies and they abandon that theory and just said that the gas Chambers were used in the Poland camps so the story gets changed every now and then and the Dumbo Goyim believe it.

JR
 
The revisionists got hold of Dachau in April, 1945? Or further back to 1933 and the Reich's records?

You can point to official or academic sources for your claim that "people said" there were gas chambers at Dachau?
 
Hans said:
Thanks to all the good folks here who are taking the time to again debunk this old material about the holocaust. Watching it I am reminded of a lame Gish gallop that is more like a one legged-stumble.

The level of anti-holocaust argument here is so inept as to be at a cartoon level. I debunk a lot of pseudo archaeology and the stuff Jim, HD and Diane, etc., seems at the same level of sophistication as Daniken and Sitchin was to archaeology. Painfully amateurish science/history garbage.

Thanks guys.
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It is quite remarkable, for me at least, that Jim and his gang seem to be stuck in the earliest days of denial. Most of their memes have been long debunked. IIRC he was spamming from Faurisson at SSF like it was some breaking news.
 
JimRizoli said:
...http://nazigassings.com/zyklondelousing.html

I'm sure some of you skeptoids know the truth but refuse to accept it.
Or I hate to say have some cognitive issues you're dealing with.

JR
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Yawn ...another link to Fred Berg. Or is he going by Fritz now? Didn't you interview him? Oh well, no matter.

Good Ol' Fred. No conflict of interest there. No irrational hatred, just good science ...

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2011/04/another-instructive-statement.html
 
JimRizoli said:
Can I like any race or hate any race?
Or do I have to like all the races you do?
By the way Jews aren't a race as much as they like to think they are.
But they sure act like one when it comes to people criticizing them.

I'm an equal opportunity race hater....If you do bad things representing your race then you get my hate...

JR
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You actually do bad things as a person of Italian descent.

However, I don't classify all people of Italian ancestry as Racists, Anti-Semites, and Neo-Nazi's, just because you are those things.
 
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robertovila said:
You actually do bad things as a person of Italian descent.

However, I don't classify all people of Italian ancestry as Racists, Anti-Semites, and Neo-Nazi's, just because you are those things.
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Or Americans who say such things.......
 
LemmyCaution said:
Jim, I asked for the source, which clearly mattered to me, or I wouldn't have asked it - and, as you can see, I replied to your rather bewildering link; but please do not continue to try childish insults like this and to make snarkish assumptions about me or other members of this discussion forum. It does matter to me, and you don't know differently. Best, LC
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I'm kind of curious what was snarky that I used about you I don't really know what that word means I have an opinion I stated my opinion if you don't like my opinion then very sorry you don't like it but that's the way it is. I'm still waiting for you to show me where the mass bodies are buried with pictures you don't have the pictures but you expect me to believe in something that people said happened when they don't show it happened what do you think I'm stupid and if you say I am and I'm going to complain about you.

JR
 
LemmyCaution said:
A Berg bites cop story, starring Sgt Thomas Dalton. Nothing irrational here, most people bite a police officer at least once during their lives. Don't they?
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What does Bergs biting somebody have anything to do with this site. I really don't care anything about Bergs habits what he reads what he does as long as he post things that expose the chosen ones in their lives that they've been spreading all these years about gas Chambers that don't exist.
I love how you try to take the topic to go in a different direction when you're losing the argument.

JR
 
Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
. . . Notice the comment
"Unlike the last transport to arrive at the camp, which had been sent immediately to the gas chamber,
HD says:
How would they know that? That statement is a complete lie. It didn't happen. . . . .
LC says:
How would you know that? Show us, using evidence, how the website told "a complete lie."

Because there were NO HOMICIDAL GAS CHAMBERS....you have to prove there were not me....

My point of that narrative was the kid was treated humanely by the German guard. It wasn't a death camp. The train going to the gas chamber BS was added by the holohoax liars...
Why do I have to prove the holohoax lie?..lol.....You prove it. Get the day, year, people on board that went to these suppossed gas chambers.....good luck.....
__________________
 
It just shows he's an unhinged bigot posing as a scientist. But by all means, use your ... eh ... considerable influence and invite him over here.
 
JimRizoli said:
I'm kind of curious what was snarky that I used about you I don't really know what that word means I have an opinion I stated my opinion if you don't like my opinion then very sorry you don't like it but that's the way it is. I'm still waiting for you to show me where the mass bodies are buried with pictures you don't have the pictures but you expect me to believe in something that people said happened when they don't show it happened what do you think I'm stupid and if you say I am and I'm going to complain about you.

JR
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You made an unwarranted assumption that I wasn't genuine in asking for the source I requested: "not that it matters to you." "Snarky" is roughly synonymous with "snide." You don't know what matters to me, because you don't know me, and I ask you kindly not to presume that I am being dishonest if I make a request in this thread. You didn't state an opinion about something - you attributed something to me without any basis.

I've already linked (here) to a number of photos of mass graves (Matthew Ellard posed two photographs also) (here's another sampling); your continued requests for something already shown are an entirely different issue to your making baseless assumptions about forum members.

To remind you, your next post after I linked to evidence, including photos, for mass graves with Jewish victims was
Like I said lots of talk NO proof!
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Photographs are not the sole, or most, important evidence for the mass murder, and their interpretation requires taking into account other evidence. Which I've also explained to you. Please be aware that I will not link to every photograph I know of that shows mass graves/bodies of Holocaust victims just because you refuse to deal with the ones I have posted.
 
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JimRizoli said:
What does Bergs biting somebody have anything to do with this site. I really don't care anything about Bergs habits what he reads what he does as long as he post things that expose the chosen ones in their lives that they've been spreading all these years about gas Chambers that don't exist.
I love how you try to take the topic to go in a different direction when you're losing the argument.

JR
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It tells us how calmly and reasonably Berg approaches situations and disagreement, which is indeed germane. Many readers will find the name Thomas Dalton itself to be germane.

I wasn't aware I was in an argument about Berg, so I certainly didn't imagine I was losing one!
 
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HDenier said:
Why do I have to prove the holohoax lie?
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Er, because you claim that the Holocaust is a lie. If you want people to believe your claim, you have to demonstrate why they should believe it. If you don't want to, of course you needn't, but don't expect anyone to believe you just because you say so.

You linked to the site and quoted from it, you claimed that he site lied, now if you want anyone to believe you, you have to tell us what was wrong with their statements, what happened instead of what they said - and how you know. Like what evidence you have to support your claim.

Otherwise, you're just someone posting stuff on an Internet discussion board.
 
Holohoax became a big issue after the Skokie Frank Collin incident...

LeoMajor said:
HDenier takes the top spot IMO. The tie breaker was the "Hogans Heroes Conspiracy" and the assurance that the Holocaust was "made up" in 1977 in some Chicago suburb.
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No, the holohoax was brought to the attention now in a different way than it was before.
The Frank Collin Incident set up the Shoah, the movies, the holocaust musuems, starting in Washington DC in 1993 and all the rest that followed....Everything followed this Frank Collins event....I believe it was planned...
If the holocaust was such a big event as LM says why was the FIRST museum opened In 1993?

To repeat, the holocaust was not a major issue UNTILL the Frank Collins incident and the Supreme Court decisions. All hell broke loose for the holohax liars after that.

Of course now those who go through that museum are fed a pack of propaganda lies, missaplication of facts and just shoddy misleading piles of glasses, hair, zyklon-b can empties withought any real context and the dumbos fall for It hook line and sinker.
Zyklon-B actually saved lives, thousands of lives.
 
I don't have to prove your lie, you do

LemmyCaution said:
Er, because you claim that the Holocaust is a lie. If you want people to believe your claim, you have to demonstrate why they should believe it. If you don't want to, of course you needn't, but don't expect anyone to believe you just because you say so.

You linked to the site and quoted from it, you claimed that he site lied, now if you want anyone to believe you, you have to tell us what was wrong with their statements, what happened instead of what they said - and how you know. Like what evidence you have to support your claim.

Otherwise, you're just someone posting stuff on an Internet discussion board.
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What is wrong with you people? I don't have to prove your holohaox, you do. You quote and show misleading links to pictures of people undressing or whatever they are doing and you then say they went to the gas chambers.....ok PROVE IT......

I don't have to prove they went to any gas chambers because there were none to go to in the first place unless the people undressing were going to get fumigated. I can't prove it because I have no context of the picture, when it was taken, where it was taken, but one fact is clear, they didn't go to a homicidal gas chamber, period.....:jaw-dropp
 
HDenier said:
No, the holohoax was brought to the attention now in a different way than it was before.
The Frank Collin Incident set up the Shoah, the movies, the holocaust musuems, starting in Washington DC in 1993 and all the rest that followed....Everything followed this Frank Collins event....I believe it was planned...
If the holocaust was such a big event as LM says why was the FIRST museum opened In 1993?

To repeat, the holocaust was not a major issue UNTILL the Frank Collins incident and the Supreme Court decisions. All hell broke loose for the holohax liars after that. . . .
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ok, I see, sure, why not?
 
LemmyCaution said:
Actually - my memory refreshed a bit - maybe from Ike - and since then used as a strawman by deniers? Long since "revised" based on more accurate investigations.
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You have a problem admitting when you're wrong.
There's nothing that we say is going to convince you even a broken clock is right twice a day but not to you and all the Holohucksters who try to Peddle your Nonsense.

JR
 
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HDenier said:
What is wrong with you people? I don't have to prove
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As I told, it's your decision. You can back up your claims, or not. No skin off my teeth if you don't.

HDenier said:
You quote and show misleading links to pictures of people undressing or whatever they are doing and you then say they went to the gas chambers.....
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What photo are you referring to? I have no idea what you're talking about.

HDenier said:
I don't have to prove they went to any gas chambers because there were none to go to in the first place unless the people undressing were going to get fumigated. I can't prove it because I have no context of the picture, when it was taken, where it was taken, but one fact is clear, they didn't go to a homicidal gas chamber, period.....:jaw-dropp
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Ah, so you have no further information, you don't know anything about the photo at the Shoah website, you don't know the context/timing/place of the photo - but you do know that the Shoah website lies. Is that how it works for you?
 
JimRizoli said:
You have a problem admitting when you're wrong.
There's nothing that we say is going to convince you even a broken clock is right twice a day but not to you and all the Holohucksters who try to Peddle your Nonsense.

JR
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And what was I wrong about? That you linked to the wrong site? That there is no scholarly basis for the claim that 238,000 Jews were cremated at Dachau and no basis for the use of that figure? That the figure DianeKayKing used for Jews said to be killed - Jews being a minority of Dachau's inmates - exceeded the total number of inmates in the camp? That the claim of scholars alleging 238,000 Jewish deaths at Dachau is strawman?

Ok, so you tell us about how many inmates went through Dachau, how many died, how many of those who died were Jews. And then show us your sources. And then show us your sources for scholars who argue that 238,000 Jews died in Dachau.

Remember: the first source you linked to said the opposite of what DianeKayKing claimed.
 
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LemmyCaution said:
As I told, it's your decision. You can back up your claims, or not. No skin off my teeth if you don't.


What photo are you referring to? I have no idea what you're talking about.

Hdenier said:
don't have to prove they went to any gas chambers because there were none to go to in the first place unless the people undressing were going to get fumigated. I can't prove it because I have no context of the picture, when it was taken, where it was taken, but one fact is clear, they didn't go to a homicidal gas chamber, period.....
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Ah, so you have no further information, you don't know anything about the photo at the Shoah website, you don't know the context/timing/place of the photo - but you do know that the Shoah website lies. Is that how it works for you?
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Look at that. Rizoli's friend admits it too: they can't prove anything but they continue to believe their assertions anyway.
 
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JimRizoli said:
You have a problem admitting when you're wrong.
There's nothing that we say is going to convince you even a broken clock is right twice a day but not to you and all the Holohucksters who try to Peddle your Nonsense.
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Big words from a man who's admitted he can't prove anything. I think the term "projection" applies to this.
 
Ivanesca said:
Big words from a man who's admitted he can't prove anything. I think the term "projection" applies to this.
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I wonder if he will even try to prove that 238,000 Jews were murdered at Dachau, as he and DianeKayKing claim, following Harwood.
 
Elagabalus said:
It just shows he's an unhinged bigot posing as a scientist. But by all means, use your ... eh ... considerable influence and invite him over here.
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Way back in 2010, Fritz Berg won a stundie for asserting that all the Jews would have to do to survive a zyklon gassing was to get as close to the ground as possible and hold their breath...for Twenty minutes. Seriously. This is the man Rizoli et al tout as an expert.
 
LemmyCaution said:
I wonder if he will even try to prove that 238,000 Jews were murdered at Dachau, as he and DianeKayKing claim, following Harwood.
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I'm not counting on it. It doesn't look like they even know what Dachau was and who the majority of the inmates were.
 
Numbers of Jews killed is not believable

LemmyCaution said:
I wonder if he will even try to prove that 238,000 Jews were murdered at Dachau, as he and DianeKayKing claim, following Harwood.
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Sorry people but throwing these huge numbers out might look good for holohoax ratings I just don't by it, I am a true Skeptic.....:p
 
HDenier said:
What is wrong with you people? I don't have to prove your holohaox, you do.
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What is wrong with you people....chuckle...? Historians don't have to prove something to you personally - since it quite clear you are biased and have so stated.

Historians by consensus have fully accepted the scholarship that is the basis of Holocaust. Your personal denial of it is simply not of any value whatsoever and I find it immensely funny that you don't understand that....lol:D
 
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