Trump runs for POTUS / Trumped Up! Part IV

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Minoosh said:
Credit where it's due, sort of. I think Trump's trip to Mexico was a win. When he's not in his fascist persona, he can sound quite reasonable. He's already signaled that he might not be such a hardliner vs. illegal immigrants who are not habitual criminals. (And BTW he has said many other moderate things). If he got the haters on board with distinguishing between ordinary illegal immigrants and the criminals among them, that would be a real accomplishment. I don't think that will happen though.
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Such impossibly low standards that would call this event positive by any measure would be very difficult not to exceed. Trump getting out of bed in the morning and adjusting his hair with those tiny fingers is downright Presidential.
 
Dr. Keith said:
More importantly, his literal wording is often incoherent. It is pure dog whistle with no relationship to actual grammar.
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It's actually beautifully done. By saying two (or more) contradictory things in the same paragraph Trump is leveraging a great psychological ploy. We tend to recognize and enhance those things we agree with, tipping the balance of whatever he actually said into the "I support that" side, when a neutral reading would only yield "WTF?"

Dog whistling? Sure. But very effective in salesmanship. Let the customer pick out that part of the product that fits their needs best and allow them to discount the other features.

There's a skill to it. One might argue Trump has made a career out of that skill - allowing others to set the agenda and make assumptions about what he will do, leaving him commitment free and liable to do anything at all.
 
marplots said:
It's actually beautifully done. By saying two (or more) contradictory things in the same paragraph Trump is leveraging a great psychological ploy. We tend to recognize and enhance those things we agree with, tipping the balance of whatever he actually said into the "I support that" side, when a neutral reading would only yield "WTF?"

Dog whistling? Sure. But very effective in salesmanship. Let the customer pick out that part of the product that fits their needs best and allow them to discount the other features.

There's a skill to it. One might argue Trump has made a career out of that skill - allowing others to set the agenda and make assumptions about what he will do, leaving him commitment free and liable to do anything at all.
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Agree completely.
 
dudalb said:
I think Bannon has won out over Kellyanne in the battle for the Trump Campaign. Kellyanne looks like a damn fool for leading everybody to believe we would see a more moderate stance on immigratation after Donald's hard line speech yesterday.
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She frequently denies Trump said X, even after just watching a clip of Trump saying X
 
acbytesla said:
The question is, how big is his audience?
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And although the gimmick might work well in selling used cars or Musical instruments for a Boy's Band, it does not work that well..once you get outside your base...in a Presendential election.
That is one of Trump's problems:He comes off too much like a Super Salesman, which, as any good Salesman can tell you, can often work against you in making a sale. You often have to tone it down and use the "Soft Sell"..which Trump is incapable of doing.
 
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So, one candidate in this race has been fined for a pay-to-play scheme involving their charitable foundation. Donald pays IRS a penalty for his foundation violating rules with gift to aid Florida attorney general.

Donald Trump paid the IRS a $2,500 penalty this year, an official at Trump's company said, after it was revealed that Trump's charitable foundation had violated tax laws by giving a political contribution to a campaign group connected to Florida's attorney general.

The improper donation, a $25,000 gift from the Donald J. Trump Foundation, was made in 2013. At the time, Attorney General Pam Bondi was considering whether to investigate fraud allegations against Trump University. She decided not to pursue the case.
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acbytesla said:
I don't know what you're talking about when you say "ruling elite". Sound like bull crap buzz words to me. Obama was raised by a single mother in a tiny house in Hawaii and attended public schools. Trump on the other hand was the son of a multi-millionaire, thrown out of one private school for bullying and was enrolled in amother. Privileged and connected...
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This is what I meant when I said a big problem is a subset of voters/citizens who do not seem able to grasp simple reality. It greatly complicates things.


halleyscomet said:
...He had casinos that were competing with each other. They were doing OK during a gambling boom, but there wasn't enough business to keep them BOTH open when the bubble burst...
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One major flaw in Trump's Atlantic City investment was that he refused to listen to more experienced casino operators. The more experienced casino operators -- mostly Las Vegas-oriented casinos -- were a bit leery of Atlantic City for the following reasons:

They expected Atlantic City to be hugely successful at first, so successful it would spur competing gambling venues in neighboring states. Which it did. Casinos in the Pocono Mountain resort region of northeastern Pennsylvania and Foxwoods in Connecticut. These resorts drew business away from Atlantic City, in fact they cut into the Atlantic City gaming revenue very sharply. Foxwoods was closer for New York City residents and so are the Poconos. The Poconos are also easily reached from Philadelphia.

Once Foxwoods and the Pocono casinos became established Atlantic City went through a very rough shakedown period and this is when Trump got clobbered. Revenue dropped dramatically and Trump's business plan did not work at the lower level of business. He needed a much larger gross to stay solvent. The problem is, all of this was not only predictable it WAS predicted but Trump didn't listen. Trump's history is he only listens to himself. Often the result of that mindset has been disaster. Which is why, of course, many people really get nervous when they think what a Trump Presidency might be like.
 
Stacko said:
So, one candidate in this race has been fined for a pay-to-play scheme involving their charitable foundation. Donald pays IRS a penalty for his foundation violating rules with gift to aid Florida attorney general.

Donald Trump paid the IRS a $2,500 penalty this year, an official at Trump's company said, after it was revealed that Trump's charitable foundation had violated tax laws by giving a political contribution to a campaign group connected to Florida's attorney general.

The improper donation, a $25,000 gift from the Donald J. Trump Foundation, was made in 2013. At the time, Attorney General Pam Bondi was considering whether to investigate fraud allegations against Trump University. She decided not to purs​
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So you commit a crime involving money and the fine is ten percent of the original amount. The are certain bets in Las Vegas casinos that have a larger vig.

Isn't the purpose of a fine to discourage future wrong-doing?
 
If President Trump annexes Mexico (thus making it great again :p ) he'll have a much shorter border wall to build, and the Mexicans will be happy to pay for it once he starts out-sourcing their jobs to Guatemala... :boxedin:

ETA: Plus a lot fewer deportations will be needed: Win-win!
 
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Ladewig said:
So you commit a crime involving money and the fine is ten percent of the original amount. The are certain bets in Las Vegas casinos that have a larger vig.

Isn't the purpose of a fine to discourage future wrong-doing?
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The crime was claiming the $25K was a deductible charitable donation. Apparently the fact it was a $25K bribe wasn't what the fine was for.
 
CapelDodger said:
I can imagine some worse ones with the kind of Secretary of State Trump is likely to appoint. Given the doctor he's chosen one dreads to think what kind of weirdo he'd go for. Definitely a birther, though. They're the best.
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Are you suggesting his first order of business would be to invade Kenya, in order to find the real birth certificate of Obama?
 
halleyscomet said:
Sweet Jesus.

I just realized what a morass of lawsuits the nation will be wallowing in when a POTUS Trump starts acting like a dictator instead of just talking like one. I'd put even money on him trying to use an executive order to place whoever he wants on the Supreme court or pull people he doesn't like out. We're going to get a LOT of "Let them enforce their opinion," moments.
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The latter hasn't happened since Andrew Jackson ignored SCOTUS verdicts on Native American land rights, has it?
 
dudalb said:
Purging eligible voters from the rolls is a crime. Legitimate Purging (people who have died since the last election, people who no longer have legal residence in the voting district) is done in every precinct. Not to do so does leave the door open for fraud. (the infamous Graveyard vote in Chicago, for example, where officials were careful NOT to remove dead voters from the rolls).
The problem is when officials try to purge eligible voters from the rolls.
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According to that article, those lists of alleged doubly-registered voters contained many instances that obviously weren't doubles. I'm curious if this gets a follow-up from a DA.
 
Minoosh said:
Credit where it's due, sort of. I think Trump's trip to Mexico was a win. When he's not in his fascist persona, he can sound quite reasonable. He's already signaled that he might not be such a hardliner vs. illegal immigrants who are not habitual criminals. (And BTW he has said many other moderate things). If he got the haters on board with distinguishing between ordinary illegal immigrants and the criminals among them, that would be a real accomplishment. I don't think that will happen though.
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"Mexican President Continues Feuding With Trump Over the Wall on Twitter"
http://www.mediaite.com/online/mexi...-feuding-with-trump-over-the-wall-on-twitter/
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The crime was claiming the $25K was a deductible charitable donation.
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It's weird that one person controls the checkbook for both organizations as there excuse for the error occurring states. Failing to segregate duties and put in place controls to stop mistakes like this are mistakes small organizations make not an alleged multibillion dollar empire.

Skeptic Ginger said:
Apparently the fact it was a $25K bribe wasn't what the fine was for.
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This hasn't been proven yet but it does explain how a go nowhere AG got a speaking gig at the RNC. "Raise my profile or we both go down!"
 
acbytesla said:
I don't know what you're talking about when you say "ruling elite". Sound like bull crap buzz words to me. Obama was raised by a single mother in a tiny house in Hawaii and attended public schools.

Trump on the other hand was the son of a multi-millionaire, thrown out of one private school for bullying and was enrolled in amother. Privileged and connected.
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Argumemnon said:
Trump?
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Minoosh said:
Criminy. Like Trump isn't just such a person.

ETA: ninja'd
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Garrison said:
So the guy whose entire career was based on daddy's connections and money isn't part of the elite? And Trump hasn't enriched himself off the backs of others by putting his name on projects that turned out to be disasters, and then walking away? The man is actually on trial for committing fraud by swindling money out of people with his phoney university. If Trump isn't a member of the 'elite' then no one is!
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You guys are seriously misinformed if you don't know what the "ruling elite" is.

It is made up of democrats and republicans who are part of the establishment of each respective party.

Trump is part of the business class of elite, not the "ruling elite"

How in the hell do you people not know this?
 
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Prometheus said:
If President Trump annexes Mexico (thus making it great again :p ) he'll have a much shorter border wall to build...
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Nah. Think business. He'll sell off a bunch of Mexico's "assets" and use the money to build the wall. Once that's done, he'll "sell off" what remains of Mexico itself.

carlvs said:
I would like them to explain exactly how siphoning billions out of the Mexico economy just to build Trump's "Great Wall" will make that country "Great Again..." :confused::boggled:
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And sending back all those murderers and rapists.
 
Ladewig said:
Fine. I am prepared to accept your conditional and choose someone not from the ruling elite. Even then Trump is still a ridiculously awful choice for two reasons.
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Even Ladewig knows what the ruling elite are and he's not even a citizen. I'm proud of you Ladewig for being informed!
 
halleyscomet said:
Seriously?

You seriously think Trump is going to have a good working relationship with a man he openly accused of deliberately sending rapists and murderers in the United States and whom he has promised to stick with a 17 to 20 BILLION dollar construction bill?
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Yeah seriously, you still refuse to acknowledge the good meeting he had. It's because you don't understand politics.
 
logger said:
You guys are seriously misinformed if you don't know what the "ruling elite" is.

It is made up of democrats and republicans who are part of the establishment of each respective party.

Trump is part of the business class of elite, not the "ruling elite"

How in the hell do you people not know this?
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You know you are not making much sense, given the way the GOP loves the "business elite".
 
logger said:
Yeah seriously, you still refuse to acknowledge the good meeting he had. It's because you don't understand politics.
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Yeah, when the guy you have the meeting with calls you a liar in public the day after that was a really great meeting........

Not everybody hates Hispanics, you know......
 
dudalb said:
Another nail in the kinder gentler, more mainstream Donald coffin
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It's eye opening the amount of influence Robert Mercer has over Donald's campaign. Bannon, Conway and Bossie are all stooges of his.
 
logger said:
Even Ladewig knows what the ruling elite are and he's not even a citizen. I'm proud of you Ladewig for being informed!
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Actually, I am a second generation American.

I inferred the meaning from your use of the term. That is why when I mentioned G.W.B. I parenthetically noted that he is part of the ruling elite and thus perhaps a bad example to use in my argument.

I was ceding the point to be polite to you. I don't think classifying people in that manner serves much useful purpose.
 
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Ladewig said:
Actually, I am a second generation American.

I inferred the meaning from your use of the term. That is why when I mentioned G.W.B. I parenthetically noted that he is part of the ruling elite and thus perhaps a bad example to use in my argument.
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That there is a huge overlap between the "Business Class Elites" and the "GOP Elites" seems to have passed logger by......
 
Stacko said:
It's eye opening the amount of influence Robert Mercer has over Donald's campaign. Bannon, Conway and Bossie are all stooges of his.
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It also explains why after attacking Hedge Fund managers early in his campaign as part of his "Anti Wall Street Populist" shtick,Donald has shut up about them.
 
Quite a few of the Trumpetts over at Politico are now threatening HIspanic American Citizens to shut up about Donald and Immigrtation or they will be throw out also....nice.
A Final Solution To the Hispanic Problem......
 
dudalb said:
That there is a huge overlap between the "Business Class Elites" and the "GOP Elites" seems to have passed logger by......
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Funny, how many libs claim Hillary is cozy with business and Wall Street?

Did that pass you by, looks like it. Question is why is it so hard for you leftists to recognize our ruling elite? It's been the same folks for many years. Trump isn't one, your clue being he is hated by both establishment parties.
 
dudalb said:
Quite a few of the Trumpetts over at Politico are now threatening HIspanic American Citizens to shut up about Donald and Immigrtation or they will be throw out also....nice.
A Final Solution To the Hispanic Problem......
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Lol

Deporting people who broke our laws is compared to the final solution? Hilarious!
 
logger said:
Lol

Deporting people who broke our laws is compared to the final solution? Hilarious!
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Dudalb was referring to the threat of deportation of American citizens of hispanic origin that don't kowtow to Trump's racist policies. You know, unconstitutional punishment for a crime of opinion.
 
Unauthorized workers are paying an estimated $13 billion a year in social security taxes and only getting around $1 billion back, according to a senior government statistician.

Stephen Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration (SSA), told VICE News that an estimated 7 million people are currently working in the US illegally. Of those, he estimates that about 3.1 million are using fake or expired social security numbers, yet also paying automatic payroll taxes. Goss believes that these workers pay an annual net contribution of $12 billion to the Social Security Trust Fund. Link
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Another irony was pointed out by an economist in an article I read some years ago. In fact it might be so far back as to have been during the Bush Administration. Anyway, he was asked, does the money sent back to Mexico and Central American countries by workers in the U.S., many of whom are undocumented, does this outflow harm the U.S. economy. The economist said there was no evidence it had much affect. Then he added an interesting point.

That the U.S. government spends a significant chunk of cash on foreign aid, some of which is granted to poverty-stricken nations for programs to alleviate the worst human suffering due to extreme poverty. He said it is often conceded that a sizeable percentage of the aid dollars are consumed by administrative costs and never reach the intended recipients. Some is undoubtedly siphoned off by crooked local government officials too.

He pointed out that, ironically, what we know about how money sent home by undocumented workers is spent, almost all of it is used for the very things our foreign aid is supposed to accomplish: better housing, better sanitation, electricity, access to health care, aid to children in poverty. That in a sense, allowing undocumented workers to work in the U.S. -- or at least making apprehending and deporting them a low priority -- enables what is essentially a very targeted foreign aid program. That dollars sent home by illegal workers is probably much more effective in battling extreme poverty -- on a family-by-family basis -- than government aid programs.
 
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logger said:
You guys are seriously misinformed if you don't know what the "ruling elite" is.

It is made up of democrats and republicans who are part of the establishment of each respective party.

Trump is part of the business class of elite, not the "ruling elite"

How in the hell do you people not know this?
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You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Trump is the Republican party nominee. You couldn't be more a part of the "ruling elite" than that.

I'd support him in a minute if he only had a brain and a modicum of sense. He doesn't treat people with respect. Not women, not minorities, not the poor and not anyone that disagrees with him.

I have asked you multiples of times what criteria did you use to declare that Obama was a failed President. And what makes Trump good? And I have heard crickets. Tell us specifically, if you can.
 
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