Trump may not have paid tax for 18 years

The reality is, in most of his ventures that have run afoul it turns out he 'owned' them in the sense he got the loans to buy them. Like the Plaza Hotel in New York, or the Trump Shuttle airline. But when he couldn't pay the vig his property was essentially repossessed. On Monday he owns a hotel valued at about $400 million. He can boast he's "worth" $400 million dollars. But he's missed a bunch of loan payments and the banks decide, "He's not our kind of guy," and they take possession of the hotel. Tuesday he's no longer worth $400 million dollars.

Like when you take out a new car loan. You own that car until you miss a few payments. Then you find out -- as Mr. Trump has discovered on quite a few occasions -- you don't really own it after all. The bank does!

Except in the 80's it seems he was too big to fail, if he failed the banks went with him. Which forced them to work with him.

We had some local builders go through the same thing here. They were too big to fail and the banks were forced to work with them, it was a beautiful thing. Something leftists could be proud of, he stuck it to the bankers.
 
More personalisation. Comment on my posts, not me. I've accorded you this courtesy.

On the other hand I can and will call out Trump for the bozo he is.
I assure you it wasn't a personal attack, what I meant was people here are sick and tired of establishment people like Clinton, you being a foreigner wouldn't actually get that vibe.
 
So he says. If he's "made" billions for the past 18 years, why does pay no federal income tax? His wealth is apparently based largely on real estate and if he's buying properties, then inflating their actual or perceived values this would explain his rise in fortunes.

I'm not really sure he's made billions. In his own mind, definitely. But cash flow reports might be anemic.

Voters will figure it out.

Why do people keep repeating this utterly baseless claim that he has paid no federal taxes in 18 years? There is not one iota of evidence for that. Even if his his total taxable income since 1995 was less than his NOL carryforwards reported at that time ($916 million), they would have already been carried forward from 1992 at the latest, and the law at the time had a 15 year window. So, at best, it could have wiped out his income up through 2007. Given that he was worth close to zero in 1992, and is worth $3.7 billion now (according to Forbes), it seems likely he generated a great deal of income over the last 20 years and has paid plenty of income tax on it.
 
The upper bound is actually what's uncertain, although it would be extremely difficult for Trump to squirrel away billions of dollars of wealth legally. If he did it illegally, however, the sky's the limit. For all we know he controls the largest drug smuggling network in Mexico, and his border wall idea is just a cover.


:)

:boxedin:
 
Why do people keep repeating this utterly baseless claim that he has paid no federal taxes in 18 years? There is not one iota of evidence for that. Even if his his total taxable income since 1995 was less than his NOL carryforwards reported at that time ($916 million), they would have already been carried forward from 1992 at the latest, and the law at the time had a 15 year window. So, at best, it could have wiped out his income up through 2007. Given that he was worth close to zero in 1992, and is worth $3.7 billion now (according to Forbes), it seems likely he generated a great deal of income over the last 20 years and has paid plenty of income tax on it.

as I said, there's one way to prove it. Why is he terrified of disclosing his tax returns?
 
Why do people keep repeating this utterly baseless claim that he has paid no federal taxes in 18 years? There is not one iota of evidence for that. Even if his his total taxable income since 1995 was less than his NOL carryforwards reported at that time ($916 million), they would have already been carried forward from 1992 at the latest, and the law at the time had a 15 year window. So, at best, it could have wiped out his income up through 2007. Given that he was worth close to zero in 1992, and is worth $3.7 billion now (according to Forbes), it seems likely he generated a great deal of income over the last 20 years and has paid plenty of income tax on it.
It would be super simple for him to clear this up and prove he generated lots of income and paid taxes on it. Yet he refuses to do so.
 
Don't forget, somehow he's made billions.

By screwing everyone in his path. You think that stops if he gets in the white house? He's going to spend every waking moment trying to figure out how to screw all 330 million of us.

Don't you love your country?
 
So he says. If he's "made" billions for the past 18 years, why does pay no federal income tax?

Sigh. I really hate to be defending Trump but I also really hate "wrong".

We don't actually know that he isn't paying Federal taxes now. If he has actually" made billions" for the past 18 years then he presumably made up for that loss the year after he incurred it and has paid taxes every since then.

This is all pretty meaningless though since it's all based on assumed facts.
 
Why do people keep repeating this utterly baseless claim that he has paid no federal taxes in 18 years?
One reason is the "That makes me smart" comment during the debate. Another is that since the story broke, nobody in the Trump campaign has denied it. Instead they have had minions shouting "Because he's a genius!"
 
Sigh. I really hate to be defending Trump but I also really hate "wrong".

We don't actually know that he isn't paying Federal taxes now. If he has actually" made billions" for the past 18 years then he presumably made up for that loss the year after he incurred it and has paid taxes every since then.

This is all pretty meaningless though since it's all based on assumed facts.

You're right. WE DON'T KNOW. And why is that? Could he be hiding something? What do you think? Trump said he would release his tax returns AS EVERY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE since Nixon has done. And then he broke that promise.

Here is a man who has NEVER been the least bit patriotic or charitable in his life. There is NO EVIDENCE that he has ever done anything for anyone in his 70 years of life despite being given the world on a silver spoon.

And we're supposed to believe he cares about the welfare of others NOW?

My question is why would we? Why?

I don't get anyone trusting a man who has been untrustworthy all of his life.
 
I think South Park had it pegged. It dawned on him recently that he might actually have to be President, and he's grossly, drastically unprepared to do it. Now he's just saying whatever he can in hopes that he can get out of it.
 
I think South Park had it pegged. It dawned on him recently that he might actually have to be President, and he's grossly, drastically unprepared to do it. Now he's just saying whatever he can in hopes that he can get out of it.

He probably sent the tax return to the NY TIMES.
 
He probably sent the tax return to the NY TIMES.


Personally, I can't even fathom for a second why Trump would want the job. While I think Trump loves the attention he has to know that job is beyond not just his capabilities but requires more work than he's willing to put in.
 
Personally, I can't even fathom for a second why Trump would want the job. While I think Trump loves the attention he has to know that job is beyond not just his capabilities but requires more work than he's willing to put in.
He probably wants it so he can say he won and for the status and attention.
 
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Genius buisnessman!
 
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Don't forget, somehow he's made billions.

Inheriting most of it is a wonderful thing. In terms of return on his inheritance he has been below market rate though. Choosing the right father is what makes him a genius.

"Imagine Trump had retired in 1982, sold his real estate holdings and invested his $500 million in the S&P 500 — that is, 500 stocks representing the American stock market.

From 1982 through the end of 2014, the S&P 500 index had an annualized return, including reinvested dividends, of 11.86 percent, according to MoneyChimp’s S&P 500 Compound Annual Growth Rate calculator.

Per this calculator, every dollar invested in January 1982 would have been worth $40 by December of 2014. That means Trump’s initial $500 million would have grown to $20 billion. That’s twice what Trump says he’s worth today."

http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-investing-than-donald-trump/
 
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Why do people keep repeating this utterly baseless claim that he has paid no federal taxes in 18 years?

And you counter this with a baseless claim that he has paid federal income tax in the past 20 years? He isn't even claiming he pays federal income tax, rather claiming he is smart for not. Why do you think Trump isn't smart for not paying federal income tax like he claims?
 
Lol

Yeah his supporters give a crap about his taxes, you haven't a clue what is going on do you?

And if he can get that number to 50.1% of the voting population, then this line of argument will be validated.

It's absolutely true that his supporters are indifferent to his taxes. Either that, or they have an idea about his taxes, wealth, and financial dealings, and are happy with that, and don't require documentary evidence to verify that their beliefs about his business situation are correct. The question is whether there are enough people like that to win an election.
 
Personally, I can't even fathom for a second why Trump would want the job. While I think Trump loves the attention he has to know that job is beyond not just his capabilities but requires more work than he's willing to put in.
You credit Trump with more self-awareness than I do. Actually, crediting him with any self-awareness is more than I do.
 
I think South Park had it pegged. It dawned on him recently that he might actually have to be President, and he's grossly, drastically unprepared to do it. Now he's just saying whatever he can in hopes that he can get out of it.

Well, why doesn't he just moon Hillary in the next debate?
 
Why do people keep repeating this utterly baseless claim that he has paid no federal taxes in 18 years? There is not one iota of evidence for that. Even if his his total taxable income since 1995 was less than his NOL carryforwards reported at that time ($916 million), they would have already been carried forward from 1992 at the latest, and the law at the time had a 15 year window. So, at best, it could have wiped out his income up through 2007. Given that he was worth close to zero in 1992, and is worth $3.7 billion now (according to Forbes), it seems likely he generated a great deal of income over the last 20 years and has paid plenty of income tax on it.

Actually, there is quite a bit of data that does show that Trump has not paid any federal income tax in the past 18 years.

However, if the Donald wants to clear the issue up, then he can do so today by releasing his income tax data.
 
9 Times Donald Trump Complained About Taxes

The revelation on Saturday that Donald J. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, could have avoided nearly a billion dollars in income taxes over two decades drew criticism and commentary from around the country. Democrats seized on the news to discredit Mr. Trump’s supposed business acumen — the tax opportunity stemmed from a $916 million business loss in 1995 — and criticized his commitment to working-class taxpayers. But Mr. Trump’s campaign and his allies were quick to defend his tax avoidance: Only a genius businessman, they said, could have worked the tax code to such advantage.

Yet as Mr. Trump’s voluminous social media record shows, Mr. Trump has taken to Twitter many times in the past several years to denounce tax avoiders, complain about misuse of his own tax dollars and warn of the significant pain that paying taxes had caused him or others.
 
One reason is the "That makes me smart" comment during the debate. Another is that since the story broke, nobody in the Trump campaign has denied it. Instead they have had minions shouting "Because he's a genius!"

And who is calling it "genius"?

Two great businessmen - Guliani and Christie.

Tump only surrounds himself with the best :rolleyes:
 
9 Times Donald Trump Complained About Taxes

The revelation on Saturday that Donald J. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, could have avoided nearly a billion dollars in income taxes over two decades drew criticism and commentary from around the country.

The revelation didn't reveal that he avoided nearly a billion dollars in taxes. His loss offsets income not taxes. And it's a maximum of two decades. For all we know, he used that offset up entirely the next year. That article really should have dropped the whole first paragraph. The rest of the article about his hypocrisy ought to be the real point.
 
We are free to speculate as much as we want, since Trump is intentionally withholding information every other candidate provides.
Accusing him of the worst possible things might be the only way to force him to come clean about his taxes.
 
We are free to speculate as much as we want, since Trump is intentionally withholding information every other candidate provides.
Accusing him of the worst possible things might be the only way to force him to come clean about his taxes.

OK. So the 18 year part might be excused as worst possible interpretation but the part confusing taxes vs taxable income is still just plain wrong.

And it would seem to be an important point to me. Misunderstanding of that law is getting it labeled as a loophole that needs to be closed. It's not. As explained by several people this has valid applications. And so far there isn't any reason to believe that Trump abused this particular law. All the valid complaints about his business practices are about other things (possibly including how he created the loss).
 
"Democratic nominee, husband paid an effective federal tax rate of 34% in 2015
Hillary Clinton’s 2015 tax return showed a sharp drop in income as she launched her presidential campaign, along with a higher federal effective income-tax rate than any president since Gerald Ford, a sign of caution for a candidate facing intense scrutiny over her family’s finances."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary...rns-paid-34-effective-federal-rate-1471017626

Would you please stop being so blatantly partisan and at least try to be honest for just a few posts? Equating Trump's tax record with Hillary's is just frustratingly dishonest.
Calm down. This thread is about Trump using a well-known tax rule to book major business losses against future taxable income.

We know that Trump had a major business loss in the 90s. This is not news. It's not even the topic of the thread. It should be enough to say that the rule is legal, its use is commonplace, and that it was appropriate and responsible for Trump to use it in his situation.

The only reason I bring up Hillary at all is to illustrate to partisan opponents that it really is a commonplace and appropriate tax strategy. I'm not accusing Hillary of any wrongdoing. Quite the opposite.

This thread was started to attack Trump for using a legal and appropriate tax rule. One way to respond to the information that Hillary has also used the rule is to suspend the attack on Trump. Another way to respond to that information is to assume that since the rule was used to attack Trump, I must be using it to attack Hillary as well, and to leap to her defense. The partisan reaction here is yours, not mine.

Trump has refused to release anything, and the resulting scant data available indicate he's paid no Federal income taxes. Hillary and Bill have released all tax returns going back to 1977 (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/hillary-clinton-releases-eight-years-of-tax-returns-120882), and there's been no indication of a single year of tax shenanigans even comparable to what we see in the few available Trump tax returns.
The tax activity being discussed in this thread isn't shenanigans. It isn't shenanigans when Hillary does it, and it isn't shenanigans when Trump does it.

Look, I agree that Trump is perhaps not breaking the law here, so long as the claimed depreciation is real.
Exactly.

But we can't possibly evaluate that, because he won't release his *********** tax returns.
We have the torches, the fagots, and the stake all ready to go. The only thing we need to get this partisan witch burning properly started is some clear examples of witchery.

But using this tax rule is not such an example.

But even if the losses are real, that says some real ****** things about Trump's business skills. Not that you need these tax records to know he's a **** businessman.
Exactly. So what's the big revelation in this thread? That he had a big business failure in the 90s? We already knew that. That he used the tax code exactly as intended, and exactly as it is commonly used by all kinds of people, to handle that failure? Ho-hum.

Read any Trump biography authored by actual investigative reporters rather than partisan blowhards and it's clear that Trump is a thoroughly disgusting human whose alleged "business acumen" is a joke and who has relied instead on inherited wealth and disdain for morals to cheat his way into his current position, which is almost certainly not nearly the position he claims. The only thing more pathetic than Trump is our media's **** job in reporting the obvious, which, of course, is fixed by our electorate's pathetic attention span, unwillingness to read, and preference to be spoon-fed whatever drivel supports its pre-existing worldview rather than actual honest attempts at objective investigative reporting.
All of which is quite fascinating, but none of which is the topic of this thread. The whole thing is a failure of partisan politics, really. The thread can't be about Trump's use of the tax rule, because there's nothing wrong or even really interesting about that. So it has to be about the business failure itself, or Trump's refusal to release his tax records, or some other off-topic thing. Don't we already have threads about the actual problematic aspects of Donald Trump? Are those threads not getting enough mileage for you? Is starting up new threads that delve into mundane and inoffensive things Trump has done really the best that can be managed to drum up new outrage and raise more concern?

And not to rub it in too much, but you're falling right in that drivel line.
Tell me: In your opinion, where did the media's line of drivel start? With the media reporting Trump's use of this tax rule? Or with the media pointing out that Hillary uses it too?
 

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