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Tags deepak chopra , ISHAR online , Rome Viharo

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Old 5th January 2017, 08:12 AM   #1
PainKiller
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ISHAR of Deepak Chopra and Rome Viharo

Does anyone know what happened to the Integrative Studies Historical Archive and Repository (ISHAR) that was created by Rome Viharo and Deepak Chopra?

It was apparently supposed to be a database for alternative medicine and mind/body woo.


Quote:
Renowned integrative medicine advocate and New York Times bestselling author just launched ISHARonline (otherwise known as Integrated Studies Historical Archive and Repository), a worldwide gathering place of new, credible research findings in integrated medicine and mind/body approaches to healing.
http://www.prevention.com/health/hea...es-isharonline

There was a lot of talk about it in 2014 and early 2015 but as of 2016 I have heard nothing about it. I guess the idea flopped and it was not a success?
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Old 5th January 2017, 09:35 AM   #2
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My understanding was Rome Viharo left that project at some point, though I'm sure since you mentioned his name he will appear in this thread momentarily and correct me in some way.

Like most projects built around the theory that we-can-build-our-own-thing-to-counter-Wikipedias-anti-woo-bias, after an initial flutter of activitity, it seems like it petered out. (Most such projects are alternative wikis, and those die at a near 100% rate).
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Last edited by krelnik; 5th January 2017 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 5th January 2017, 12:32 PM   #3
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Do I remember there being a thread about this ISHAR revisionism thingy here, in GSP, not too long ago? Search function and my phone don't play well together.
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Old 5th January 2017, 12:35 PM   #4
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Old 5th January 2017, 06:45 PM   #5
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Post Info on ISHAR

Hello, I'm the director and a founder of the ISHAR project. I just wanted to answer your questions and give you some updates on what we've been doing.

Rome Viharo is indeed no longer a part of this project, and after his departure the scope of ISHAR was significantly refined. We are an open-access reference database for integrative studies (medical, anthropological, historical, philosophical, and mathematical studies into the relationship of mind-body-environment). ISHARonline.org has been active for nearly two years and houses over 65,000 sources. We are ad-free, do not charge our users any fees nor require memberships.

It's likely many of you have not heard much about us because our retooling process moved ISHAR away from social media and into the academic arena, where we have been very pleased with our contributions. We are not a replacement nor competitor with Wikipedia (though our sources are cited there), we're an actively curated database that services researchers, universities, institutions, and non-profits.

We are proud to be an initiative of the Chopra Foundation, and to state they and Deepak Chopra have given this project the directive to adhere to strict academic standards with no interference. We are currently working with organizations including Columbia University, Harvard Medical, UCSD, and Karolinska Institutet, based in large part on our dedication to impartially housing and contextualizing the sources behind controversial topics, both for and against.

I hope that answers your questions about our status, and if you have anything more I'm happy to clarify further.
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Old 5th January 2017, 09:17 PM   #6
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ISHAR,

It is not a little over two years since the ISHARonline.org site was heavily discussed here. There were promises made then by a member identified as ISHARonline about ISHAR being a service to wikipedia. There were also unanswered questions about, among other things, the value of ISHAR, that it was redundant with what already existed.

That was then. Where are we now?

Is ISHAR a service to wikipedia?
Does ISHAR add some unique value to the scientific community?
Is ISHAR's board of directors no longer a who's who of woo?
Does ISHAR view homeopathy as evidence based?
Many, many questions.
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Old 5th January 2017, 09:59 PM   #7
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Deepak Chopra holds the belief that consciousness is fundamental in the universe and that everything arises from consciousness. This is a popular view amongst new-agers and pseudoscience proponents but has no solid evidence to support it. Chopra bases this idea on Vedanta philosophy. It is a religious viewpoint.

It is not surprising that on the ISHAR website we read:

Quote:
There are still, however, a number of much discussed and important objections to materialism, most of which question the notion that materialism can adequately explain conscious experience.
http://isharonline.org/consciousness

I am afraid I don't believe your statement "Deepak Chopra have given this project the directive to adhere to strict academic standards with no interference."

The agenda of ISHAR is to attack materialism and promote mind/body woo.

Now if you think about how many neuroscience papers have been published recently on consciousness, yet ISHAR only links to extreme fringe papers that argue against materialism.

http://isharonline.org/categories/consciousness

The first paper cited "A call for an open, informed study of all aspects of consciousness", argues for the existence of psychic powers and has paranormal proponents like Dean Radin on the signing list. Not encouraging.

Ken Wilber hardly represents mainstream scientific academia.

There is also links to Stuart Hameroff's papers which have been cited by paranormal proponents for years but have never stood up to scientific scrutiny.

None of this stuff represents mainstream academia or scientific research on consciousness and none of it is exactly new.

Let's be honest the only people who take ISHAR seriously are paranormal proponents or those involved with alternative medicine looking for evidence to support their beliefs. Science is not on your side I am afraid. There was talk about ISHAR taking over Wikipedia when it first came out, but I new this would never happen. I doubt many people use ISHAR. Wikipedia is much more reliable.

Last edited by PainKiller; 5th January 2017 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:13 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
ISHAR,

It is not a little over two years since the ISHARonline site was heavily discussed here. There were promises made then by a member identified as ISHARonline about ISHAR being a service to wikipedia. There were also unanswered questions about, among other things, the value of ISHAR, that it was redundant with what already existed.

That was then. Where are we now?

Is ISHAR a service to wikipedia?
Does ISHAR add some unique value to the scientific community?
Is ISHAR's board of directors no longer a who's who of woo?
Does ISHAR view homeopathy as evidence based?
Many, many questions.
To answer your questions:
1) ISHAR is a service to Wikipedia in terms of providing original links, sourcing, and formatting help for all of our content. As I mentioned above, while we're happy to be cited there, Wikipedia is not a major part of our function at this time.
2) ISHAR's unique value is in our contextualization, metadata analysis, and interdisciplinary approach to various topics. This has been valuable enough to warrant collaboration with several Ivy-League universities and international institutes.
3) This is a confusing question. We do not have a Board of Directors, though we do have a Supervisory Board. These are volunteers who have agreed to donate time in perusing our tens of thousands of studies to check for formatting errors, fraudulent studies, etc. They do not have any direct control over what goes into or out of the archive. Needless to say, I do not agree with your dismissive view of their credentials.
4) We do not endorse or condemn any field of study, but we present the studies related to it, regardless of whether they debunk or support it. Our summaries are primarily descriptive, though we acknowledge widespread controversy. As far as perspectives, we include links to WebMD, Wikipedia, a pro and a con site.

Hope that's helpful.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Rome Viharo is indeed no longer a part of this project, and after his departure the scope of ISHAR was significantly refined.
Do you know why Rome Viharo was fired?

Viharo is a banned Wikipedia sock-puppet who created the account SAS81 on Wikipedia to defend Deepak Chopra and promote ISHAR. This was despite the fact he had already created three Wikipedia accounts that had been banned previously (most notably his account Tumbleman).

Viharo on his account SAS81 never admitted to being a previously banned Wikipedia editor, so this was deliberate deception (the definition of sock-puppetry). He tried to hide his identity, but it did not work and he eventually got banned again.

He admits that here:


Quote:
SAS81 is also the fourth Wikipedia account that I have used to successfully bring balance and attention to very genuine editorial problems and abuses occurring on the Wikipedia platform.
He also admits he was fired on his website:

Quote:
After I was fired, Ryan Castle was approached to ‘project manage’ a ‘new direction’ for ISHAR primarily as an online research archive managed by the Chopra Foundation. I wish them well with their venture.
Rome Viharo has also been described by skeptics as an internet troll with a persecution complex:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rome_Viharo

Last edited by PainKiller; 6th January 2017 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
ISHAR is a service to Wikipedia in terms of providing original links, sourcing, and formatting help for all of our content. As I mentioned above, while we're happy to be cited there, Wikipedia is not a major part of our function at this time.
How is ISHAR a service to Wikipedia? You are completely different websites, unrelated. Wikipedia contains far more information than your own website.

Rome Viharo got banned from Wikipedia on an account that was associated with your organization. It was first called "Chopra Media" and then SAS81.

I think it's unlikely anyone would be citing ISHAR on Wikipedia after all with happened with the above including the banning. Viharo's own website has been blacklisted from Wikipedia due to the abusive content. Although Viharo no longer works for ISHAR he was the director of operations. Did Viharo get fired because he gave your organization a bad name on Wikipedia?

Last edited by PainKiller; 6th January 2017 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:47 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by PainKiller View Post
Deepak Chopra holds the belief that consciousness is fundamental in the universe and that everything arises from consciousness. This is a popular view amongst new-agers and pseudoscience proponents but has no solid evidence to support it. Chopra bases this idea on Vedanta philosophy. It is a religious viewpoint.

It is not surprising that on the ISHAR website we read:



...

I am afraid I don't believe your statement "Deepak Chopra have given this project the directive to adhere to strict academic standards with no interference."

The agenda of ISHAR is to attack materialism and promote mind/body woo.

Now if you think about how many neuroscience papers have been published recently on consciousness, yet ISHAR only links to extreme fringe papers that argue against materialism.

...

The first paper cited "A call for an open, informed study of all aspects of consciousness", argues for the existence of psychic powers and has paranormal proponents like Dean Radin on the signing list. Not encouraging.

Ken Wilber hardly represents mainstream scientific academia.

There is also links to Stuart Hameroff's papers which have been cited by paranormal proponents for years but have never stood up to scientific scrutiny.

None of this stuff represents mainstream academia or scientific research on consciousness and none of it is exactly new.

Let's be honest the only people who take ISHAR seriously are paranormal proponents or those involved with alternative medicine looking for evidence to support their beliefs. Science is not on your side I am afraid. There was talk about ISHAR taking over Wikipedia when it first came out, but I new this would never happen. I doubt many people use ISHAR. Wikipedia is much more reliable.
It appears you didn't actually read the section on Consciousness that you're quoting. First, the quote you assume was written to please Deepak Chopra is actually from the Encyclopedia of Philosophy's explanation of materialism (as cited in Notes and References), and is part of a larger section that explains the reasoning and support behind materialism. The same treatment is given to various other philosophical interpretations of consciousness.
Second, your statement that this proves ISHAR is out to attack materialism and promote woo makes no sense, since the summaries reflect pro/cons of many, many theories, and are rooted in solid scholarly theories. Please review the page content list:
Quote:
1. Terminological Matters: Various Concepts of Consciousness
2. Some History on the Topic
3. The Metaphysics of Consciousness: Materialism vs. Dualism
a. Dualism: General Support and Related Issues
b. Materialism: General Support
4. Specific Theories of Consciousness
a. Neural Theories
b. Representational Theories of Consciousness
c. Other Cognitive Theories
d. Quantum Approaches
5. Consciousness and Science: Key Issues
a. The Unity of Consciousness/The Binding Problem
b. The Neural Correlates of Consciousness (NCCs)
c. Philosophical Psychopathology
6. Animal and Machine Consciousness
Thirdly, I understand you have issues with several of the studies housed in ISHAR, but we house data as an accessible resource, not an endorsement of their conclusions (we have 60K+, many of them obviously contradict others). That said, the Consciousness source list appears to have been affected by a recent upload; it should have over 300 studies, but currently only shows a handful. I apologize for the incomplete reference list and will get that resolved.

Finally, it's important to note a difference in our reasoning. You assume that in order to be scientific a database must focus on orthodoxy, while we believe to be scientific we must focus on evidence, whatever it may say.

I am comfortable with our supporters and collaborators, they include some of the greatest research centers in the world. As far as Wikipedia, I'd hoped I'd clarified that above; we have no interest in "taking over" Wikipedia, we perform very different functions.
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Old 6th January 2017, 12:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
PainKiller;11657189]Do you know why Rome Viharo was fired?

Viharo is a banned Wikipedia sock-puppet who created the account SAS81 on Wikipedia to defend Deepak Chopra and promote ISHAR. This was despite the fact he had already created three Wikipedia accounts that had been banned previously (most notably his account Tumbleman).

Viharo on his account SAS81 never admitted to being a previously banned Wikipedia editor, so this was deliberate deception (the definition of sock-puppetry). He tried to hide his identity, but it did not work and he eventually got banned again.

He admits that here:




He also admits he was fired on his website:



Rome Viharo has also been described by skeptics as an internet troll with a persecution complex:

...
Our decision to no longer work with Rome Viharo is not something I can legally discuss, I'm afraid, other than to clarify he has no role in ISHAR's current iteration or philosophy.
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Old 6th January 2017, 01:05 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by PainKiller View Post
How is ISHAR a service to Wikipedia? You are completely different websites, unrelated. Wikipedia contains far more information than your own website.

Rome Viharo got banned from Wikipedia on an account that was associated with your organization. It was first called "Chopra Media" and then SAS81.

I think it's unlikely anyone would be citing ISHAR on Wikipedia after all with happened with the above including the banning. Viharo's own website has been blacklisted from Wikipedia due to the abusive content. Although Viharo no longer works for ISHAR he was the director of operations. Did Viharo get fired because he gave your organization a bad name on Wikipedia?
I'm not sure I understand your question. ISHAR has features that are usable on Wikipedia (citation formatting, links, etc) relating to our topics, but we are not related, not attempting to perform the same function. I understand there was a focus on Wikipedia previously, but I can only clarify again & again that this is no longer the case.

People using ISHAR to cite research would not be citing ISHAR, they'd be citing the original study we send them to. This does occur with some frequency, but it is simply a feature we offer, not part of our main mission.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
1. Terminological Matters: Various Concepts of Consciousness
2. Some History on the Topic
3. The Metaphysics of Consciousness: Materialism vs. Dualism
a. Dualism: General Support and Related Issues
b. Materialism: General Support
4. Specific Theories of Consciousness
a. Neural Theories
b. Representational Theories of Consciousness
c. Other Cognitive Theories
d. Quantum Approaches
5. Consciousness and Science: Key Issues
a. The Unity of Consciousness/The Binding Problem
b. The Neural Correlates of Consciousness (NCCs)
c. Philosophical Psychopathology
6. Animal and Machine Consciousness
Plenty of big words there, of which one is a trigger-word: Quantum. Sorry, but as soon as you use that word you will be asked to show your working. And by "show your working" I mean mathematics and particle physics. Because quantum is about those subjects alone.

Otherwise it is simply being used as a buzzword to impress the impressionable. Which is a typical Chopra-like tactic to sound all sciency and stuff. We know why he does that - flim-flammery. What's more, some of us here actually know the REAL quantum science stuff too, with the mathematics. Chopra's hogwash doesn't wash.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:32 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Plenty of big words there, of which one is a trigger-word: Quantum. Sorry, but as soon as you use that word you will be asked to show your working. And by "show your working" I mean mathematics and particle physics. Because quantum is about those subjects alone.

Otherwise it is simply being used as a buzzword to impress the impressionable. Which is a typical Chopra-like tactic to sound all sciency and stuff. We know why he does that - flim-flammery. What's more, some of us here actually know the REAL quantum science stuff too, with the mathematics. Chopra's hogwash doesn't wash.
Please read the actual section before you accuse people of "flimflam" and other deceptive practices. In addition to listing the basic academic terms relating to consciousness (we didn't make up these terms), the section in question is a pretty straightforward summary of how people have cited quantum effects and how they might relate to consciousness. None of Chopra's ideas are presented in the summary.

With all due respect, you seem so eager to blame Deepak Chopra for supposedly inserting his viewpoint that you're not bothering to read what the actual viewpoint we're presenting is.

Last edited by ISHAR; 6th January 2017 at 02:41 AM.
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Old 6th January 2017, 02:51 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ISHAR View Post
Please read the actual section before you accuse people of "flimflam" and other deceptive practices. In addition to listing the basic academic terms relating to consciousness (we didn't make up these terms), the section in question is a pretty straightforward summary of how people have cited quantum effects and how they might relate to consciousness. None of Chopra's ideas are presented in the summary.

With all due respect, you seem so eager to blame Deepak Chopra for supposedly inserting his viewpoint that you're not bothering to read what the actual viewpoint we're presenting is.
Sorry, but the whole "business" of trying to tie the word "quantum" to the subject of consciousness went down in ignominious flames decades ago. And yet it continues to reappear. So the use of the word itself indicates the "research" is about as relevant as bringing up, say, phlogiston or "the ether" when discussing electricity. It is about the same level of "science" as arguing about which dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark.
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Old 6th January 2017, 03:57 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Sorry, but the whole "business" of trying to tie the word "quantum" to the subject of consciousness went down in ignominious flames decades ago. And yet it continues to reappear. So the use of the word itself indicates the "research" is about as relevant as bringing up, say, phlogiston or "the ether" when discussing electricity. It is about the same level of "science" as arguing about which dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark.
It continues to reappear, so we report that it reappears, along with how people discuss it. As I mentioned to another person here, our job is not to tell people they're right or wrong, but to present the evidence for all significant perspectives. When it's lacking, we report that, but we don't exclude theories based on our own opinions on the research.
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Old 6th January 2017, 06:43 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ISHAR View Post
...
2) ISHAR's unique value is in our contextualization, metadata analysis, and interdisciplinary approach to various topics. This has been valuable enough to warrant collaboration with several Ivy-League universities and international institutes.
...
Do tell.

Can you please tell us about some of these collaborations? And since such collaborations would not be with the university, itself, but with specific research centers and faculty, would you please identify the collaborations with at least that level of detail.
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Old 6th January 2017, 08:53 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Thanks, Mojo!

Dear ISHAR,

By necessity, I'm a practical person. A tradesman with 39 years spent developing skills in most disciplines; from rough framing to fine carpentry, mechanical and electrical systems installation and repair, to repairing heavy equipment that's mired in the mud.

I said all that so you might better understand what I'm going to say next. I've never prayed a thing into good repair. Or chanted mantras that revealed the answer to a mystery. Never wished anything into being fixed. The materialistic worldview is the only thing that has had any measurable effect on my life.

Working the problem by following the evidence without fooling yourself by making unfounded assumptions along the way is the path that I strive to follow.

Mysticism, on the other hand, is just as useful as any other fiction: Something to take one's mind off of the drudgery of the things that must be done. Entertainment. Much of the same value as the arts. The beauty of some ideas and ideals has tugged at my heartstrings just as much as Mozart or Monet ever have. The depravity of others sickens me even more than the twisted pleasures I get from Stephen King or Umberto Echo novels. But as much as I enjoy it, I don't fool myself into thinking that any form of mysticism has any real usefulness to science. Perhaps, one day, psychology will get some benefit. For now... no.

The last I'll say is that I've read just enough Chopra to know that his path is not mine. And to me, dissemination of any informational resources that he's involved with need to be scrutinized by rational persons BEFORE publication. Some people are foolish enough to think that wishes come true if they only wish hard enough. The books that man sells to them encourage such wishful thinking, and teach nothing of practical value. Chopra knows this and profits. Sometimes to his more credulous reader's peril.
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Old 6th January 2017, 10:50 AM   #20
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Wikipedia, We Have a Problem FAQ addresses some of these questions and gives the context to OP's post and motivation behind this discussion.

http://wikipediawehaveaproblem.com/wwhp-faq/

happy new year.
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:16 AM   #21
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Red face

Originally Posted by WWHP View Post
Wikipedia, We Have a Problem FAQ addresses some of these questions and gives the context to OP's post and motivation behind this discussion.

http://wikipediawehaveaproblem.com/wwhp-faq/

happy new year.
Your Faq is not reliable, it contains false information.

Quote:
Do you claim that Tim Farley is Wikipedia editor Manul?

I can’t say for certain, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that links them, and for sure they at least are apart of one community that co-ordinates.
Tim Farley is Krelnik above. He has nothing to do with Manul.

Quote:
The charge against me on Wikipedia as a sock puppet, however, was bogus and did not stick. I was cleared of this.
Wrong you have sock-puppeted. You created the account tumbleman which you were banned on. You then created a new account called SAS81 but did not declare this when you created your new account. This is deliberate deception.

Quote:
A sock puppet is used as a weasel word to discredit someone in an online wiki. ‘Sock puppet’, as the word is commonly abused online, is often thrown at anyone to lessen the credibility of their participation. The term as originally defined means using multiple accounts at the same time to participate in a discussion or collaboration in some manner, like astro turfing somewhat.
Wrong. The definition of a sock-puppet is very simple:

Quote:
A false online identity used for deceptive purposes
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict.../sock%20puppet

Which you were banned for.

Quote:
Isn’t that you breaking Wikipedia’s policy?

Yes, by circumventing my ban, I am willfully breaking Wikipedia’s rule. I can accept if there are reasonable Wikipedians who wish to criticize me for that decision.
At least you admit this.

Quote:
Correct, for about 6 months. Deepak Chopra approached me to work with him, however, specifically on his Wikipedia problem and not because of anything else. I was able to bring resolution to his Wikipedia article in around 30 to 40 days.

I created the original architecture for ISHAR, a digital library for Deepak Chopra and The Chopra Foundation.

But doesn’t that make you a ‘promoter of pseudoscience’, like they claim?

Why would it? It was a research library that simply was a database of all academic and scientific study of alternative medicines and various mind/body practices from Yoga to martial arts. It’s just a database of academic literature. I designed the architecture for a database. What is the controversy again?

The term pseudoscience does not even apply here. It makes no sense, unless you just want to discredit and embarrass someone.


It is a research library that supports mind/body woo and papers arguing for the existence of psychic powers. The term pseudoscience does apply here and you were the original creator of it.

Quote:
To be honest, I find the fact that this publication causes so much disruption at Wikipedia amongst these editors that they blacklist and suppress even discussion of Wikipedia, We have a Problem is actually quite an honor, I must be doing something good.
It is blacklisted because your website contains false information about Wikipedia and Wikipedia editors. It is not a moral thing to create a website attacking skeptics such as Tim Farley or Manul accusing them of things they have not done. It is seen as an attack website and I know of nobody who takes it seriously apart from paranormal proponents such as your associate Alex Tsakiris of skeptiko who you did an interview with.

http://skeptiko.com/236-rome-viharo-...ave-a-problem/

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Old 6th January 2017, 12:02 PM   #22
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It'd be better not to publish crap that there's no evidence for in the first place, wouldn't it?
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Old 6th January 2017, 03:59 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by HighRiser View Post
Thanks, Mojo!

Dear ISHAR,

By necessity, I'm a practical person. A tradesman with 39 years spent developing skills in most disciplines; from rough framing to fine carpentry, mechanical and electrical systems installation and repair, to repairing heavy equipment that's mired in the mud.

I said all that so you might better understand what I'm going to say next. I've never prayed a thing into good repair. Or chanted mantras that revealed the answer to a mystery. Never wished anything into being fixed. The materialistic worldview is the only thing that has had any measurable effect on my life.

Working the problem by following the evidence without fooling yourself by making unfounded assumptions along the way is the path that I strive to follow.

Mysticism, on the other hand, is just as useful as any other fiction: Something to take one's mind off of the drudgery of the things that must be done. Entertainment. Much of the same value as the arts. The beauty of some ideas and ideals has tugged at my heartstrings just as much as Mozart or Monet ever have. The depravity of others sickens me even more than the twisted pleasures I get from Stephen King or Umberto Echo novels. But as much as I enjoy it, I don't fool myself into thinking that any form of mysticism has any real usefulness to science. Perhaps, one day, psychology will get some benefit. For now... no.

The last I'll say is that I've read just enough Chopra to know that his path is not mine. And to me, dissemination of any informational resources that he's involved with need to be scrutinized by rational persons BEFORE publication. Some people are foolish enough to think that wishes come true if they only wish hard enough. The books that man sells to them encourage such wishful thinking, and teach nothing of practical value. Chopra knows this and profits. Sometimes to his more credulous reader's peril.
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I think we actually agree on more things that you would expect. ISHAR is not intended to be pro-mysticisim, anti-matierialism, or pro/anti anything for that matter. In fact, the majority of our content on spirituality relates to sociological and anthropological effects of belief in customs, behavior, and health.

We house and contextualize research and references about these topics, without endorsement or condemnation. ISHAR is not meant to indoctrinate readers with Deepak Chopra's philosophy, and he himself insisted that his own positions should not take a higher priority than other research. Since we have 60K+ sources, that means you will rarely find anything relating to him, in fact. One of the factors that convinced me to work with Deepak Chopra was his insistence on academic integrity and impartiality.

We present evidence, summarize it when we can, and offer the supporting/critiquing sources to our users. Our position is that more information is a good thing, that open-minds are better than closed ones, and that rather than insisting on an exclusive dichotomy of orthodoxy v. mind-body, we bring the two together under the banner of inclusive, evidence-based science. You don't necessarily have to follow Deepak Chopra to find studies you'll agree with on ISHAR, and if you're a follower of Deepak Chopra you won't necessarily agree with everything on ISHAR.
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:22 PM   #24
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Are you the the same ISHAR from the previous thread?
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Old 6th January 2017, 07:43 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ISHAR View Post
We are not a replacement nor competitor with Wikipedia
It is a good thing that you thought to mention this because I was of the opposite impression this entire time!
Quote:
(though our sources are cited there),
Bragging about being cited on wikipedia is kind of like bragging about being with Lindsay Lohan.
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Old 6th January 2017, 09:47 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
It is a good thing that you thought to mention this because I was of the opposite impression this entire time! Bragging about being cited on wikipedia is kind of like bragging about being with Lindsay Lohan.
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:32 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
It is a good thing that you thought to mention this because I was of the opposite impression this entire time! Bragging about being cited on wikipedia is kind of like bragging about being with Lindsay Lohan.
Definitely not bragging. Just clarifying that while we don't focus on Wikipedia, we may pop up here and there in citations from users.
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Old 7th January 2017, 03:16 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by ISHAR View Post
Definitely not bragging. Just clarifying that while we don't focus on Wikipedia, we may pop up here and there in citations from users.
Not "users", deluded idiots. You enable them, and Chopra's profiting off them.
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Old 7th January 2017, 05:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ISHAR View Post
ISHARonline.org has been active for nearly two years and houses over 65,000 sources. We are ad-free, do not charge our users any fees nor require memberships.

How many of these are full-text, as distinct from abstracts, which are already widely available free of charge? For example Pubmed has about 26 million.

Quote:
It's likely many of you have not heard much about us because our retooling process moved ISHAR away from social media and into the academic arena, where we have been very pleased with our contributions. We are not a replacement nor competitor with Wikipedia (though our sources are cited there)...

When you say your sources are cited on Wikipedia, do you mean that there are Wikipedia articles citing ISHAR, or merely Wikipedia articles citing sources elsewhere that also happen to be included on ISHAR?
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Old 7th January 2017, 05:12 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ISHAR View Post
Definitely not bragging. Just clarifying that while we don't focus on Wikipedia, we may pop up here and there in citations from users.
You seemed to be pretty focused on wikipedia, at least emotionally/spiritually. Hey I'm gonna make a list of who else pops up in citations from users

1. The Church of Scientology
2. The Disclosure Project
3. The Bible
4. The Rantings of Lyndon LaRouche

I need not go on...
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Old 7th January 2017, 06:02 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
Do tell.

Can you please tell us about some of these collaborations? And since such collaborations would not be with the university, itself, but with specific research centers and faculty, would you please identify the collaborations with at least that level of detail.
I'm interested too.
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Old 7th January 2017, 10:19 AM   #32
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If I banged Lindsay Lohan, I'd brag about it for sure, but I'd only expect my bro points to go up like .0001 percent, if you catch my drift.
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Old 7th January 2017, 12:57 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ISHAR View Post
We house and contextualize research and references about these topics, without endorsement or condemnation. …[snip]
We present evidence, summarize it when we can, and offer the supporting/critiquing sources to our users. Our position is that …[snip] rather than insisting on an exclusive dichotomy of orthodoxy v. mind-body, we bring the two together under the banner of inclusive, evidence-based science.
Combining rubbish with science is certainly an endorsement of rubbish. You are gilding a turd.
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Old 7th January 2017, 01:55 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ISHAR View Post
we house data as an accessible resource, not an endorsement of their conclusions

Yeah, I'm not buying it. After looking over your site, it's clear that nearly every page and search term is geared towards spiritualistic anti-materialism with a heavy anti-medicine bias. The page on homeopathy, for example, gives lip service to the notion that it's non-medical quackery but then quickly concludes that "researchers" have found many studies that show it to be effective.

Every page including the index is geared towards one particular philosophy.

As a repository of scientific papers, I'm not in any way convinced that your site is better than Google Scholar. Nor am I at all convinced that professional scholars would be unaware of how to find information regarding their disciplines.
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Old 8th January 2017, 09:08 AM   #35
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[edit=Agatha] edited to remove reference to post sent to AAH
I have never harassed anyone on this forum, this thread is a harmless discussion about ISHAR and its founders. Note that there is an excellent moderating team here that would ban any users for any kind of harassment, but there is none on this thread. It only exists in your head.

If I want to create a thread about you on a skeptic forum, I will do. It is not illegal to ask about the ISHAR of Deepak Chopra and Rome Viharo on an internet forum, neither is it harassment. It is not illegal to mention the name Rome Viharo on the internet. You get that right?

As for these links you posted, thanks for sharing them. One of them directly quoted you as saying:

Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove material in breach of rule 9

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Old 8th January 2017, 10:03 AM   #36
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Hmmm, the quote you are referring to was published on a blog written by the smith brothers. I don't see attribution of that quote to me, I see attribution on that quote to an anonymous Reddit account.

Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove response to rule breach
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Old 8th January 2017, 11:15 AM   #37
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Mod Warning Please would you all review your Membership Agreements, paying particular attention to rule 0, rule 8, rule 9 and rule 12.

Remain civil and polite, do not post anything which purports to be another member's real name or other personal information unless it is (a) publicly available and (b) relevant to the thread, do not post anything indecent, and address the arguments made and not the arguers.

Please stick to the topic, which is ISHAR, not Wikipedia We Have a Problem.

Posted By:Agatha
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Old 8th January 2017, 11:35 AM   #38
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So far, I have heard claims of what ISHAR was supposed to accomplish and claims of what it is not now. It is not a service to Wikipedia. Ok, I get that, and so we cannot look to Wikipedia for evidence of any impact by ISHAR.

Where can we look? Two years is long enough that we should expect something of substance.

I did a web search for associations with notable universities. A claim was made those were already in place. I found nada. There isn't a university, reasearch center, nor faculty member out there won't brag about their external affiliations with credible organizations. I found nada.

I did a web search for links to ISHARonline.org. If it is an important resource to the research community, then it should get online recognition by the academic community. I found nada. Well, I did find some dated hype from pop-culture sites like Prevention Magazine, but they were at least two years old and pushing a non-academic, non-scientific agenda.

I also did a google scholar search on some of the ISHAR supervisory board members. Was there an increase in scholarly citations to publications by, for example, Lisa Miller, Director of the Spirituality & Mind Body Institute, now that ISHAR was well-established. Surely, publications by her and others that missed the attention of the scientific community in the past would be more easily spotted with ISHAR in place. The short answer is, no, there were no detectable increases in citations in the past two years.


So, I ask a basic question: In what way does ISHAR have any meaningful relevance?
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Old 8th January 2017, 11:55 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
So far, I have heard claims of what ISHAR was supposed to accomplish and claims of what it is not now. It is not a service to Wikipedia. Ok, I get that, and so we cannot look to Wikipedia for evidence of any impact by ISHAR.

Where can we look? Two years is long enough that we should expect something of substance.

I did a web search for associations with notable universities. A claim was made those were already in place. I found nada. There isn't a university, reasearch center, nor faculty member out there won't brag about their external affiliations with credible organizations. I found nada.

I did a web search for links to ISHARonline.org. If it is an important resource to the research community, then it should get online recognition by the academic community. I found nada. Well, I did find some dated hype from pop-culture sites like Prevention Magazine, but they were at least two years old and pushing a non-academic, non-scientific agenda.

I also did a google scholar search on some of the ISHAR supervisory board members. Was there an increase in scholarly citations to publications by, for example, Lisa Miller, Director of the Spirituality & Mind Body Institute, now that ISHAR was well-established. Surely, publications by her and others that missed the attention of the scientific community in the past would be more easily spotted with ISHAR in place. The short answer is, no, there were no detectable increases in citations in the past two years.


So, I ask a basic question: In what way does ISHAR have any meaningful relevance?
I've addressed aspects of our functionality elsewhere, but I'll summarize here some of what we do:
  • We concentrate, cross-reference, and summarize research about various mind-body-environment topics (public facing).
  • We provide formatted, filtered datasets of thousands of studies for systematic reviews and meta-studies (private facing, and if you don't think this is a relevant service you've never performed a systematic review).
  • We coordinate collaboration between interdisciplinary approaches to various topics (public and private facing).

What we don't do:
  • Require our users to advertise or promote our site in return for help or collaboration.
  • Require people who use our services in research to link to us in their research references (the references are the actual studies cited)
  • Use ISHAR as a platform to specifically promote our Advisory Board's work (we actually discourage this as a conflict of interest).

I think I've been pretty patient and accommodating on this forum, despite encountering numerous insults, mockeries, and general hostility. Acknowledging that this question was reasonable, this is the last post I'll respond to about our function. I've answered that, several times in several different ways. We do not need to prove our solvency here, we have already done so with our collaborators. One can only respond to so many accusations (several from posters who didn't even read the sections they were condemning) before it becomes obvious there is no end to this scenario.

For similar reasons I will not be sharing the names and/or contact information of our collaborators. It is not an accident I have been vague. I do not trust that they will not be harassed or pressured. After all, I was despite coming here as a courtesy to try and be helpful. Part of ISHAR's purpose is to provide a safe place for researchers to explore controversial ideas. That matters more than correcting insinuations that we are lying in some way.

I believe there are some people on this forum who mistake zealotry for skepticism and hostility for high standards. I've seen the futility of trying to appease such people when I watched the Chopra Foundation try to address these issues:
  1. Deepak Chopra is just a spiritual guru who does no science!
  2. Here's some books and papers on scientific topics.
  3. He has no idea what he's talking about, or he'd have co-authors!
  4. Here are several books and papers cowritten with professionals in the field.
  5. Those people are all woo-pushers, if he was serious he'd work with leaders in the field!
  6. Here are several papers and studies conducted with Nobel Laureates.
  7. Those people have gone crazy since they won their Nobels, if those studies were worthwhile they'd have been published in a major journal!
  8. Here are studies published in a Nature affiliated journal with Impact Factor of 5.538.
  9. It's a shame that all these scientists, Nobel Laureates, and journals know less about science than me.

Which is to say, I now doubt anything I could say or show here would make much of a difference. I have seen little evidence that evidence matters as much as assumptions.
I'd love to be proven wrong.
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Old 9th January 2017, 12:42 AM   #40
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Does anyone have the wambulance gif handy?
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