Merged Trump Fires Comey....

logger said:
The leaks are felonies?
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How could it be a felony for Wittes to tell a reporter what his friend (Comey) told him over lunch? Nothing that Comey said was covered by confidentiality laws or security classifications.

What law do you think might be broken here or in the case of leaks regarding Comey's memos?
 
phiwum said:
Fair enough. I was hoping that we'd see one or more of the memos.
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I'm a little surprised that we haven't seen at least the leaked memo yet. It will be interesting to see what all is covered in his notes.
 
xjx388 said:
I'm a little surprised that we haven't seen at least the leaked memo yet. It will be interesting to see what all is covered in his notes.
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It's possible that the recipients of the memo think that providing it to the press is one step too far. I reckon Congress will see this and other relevant memos and we might get more details, even if we never see the verbatim text.
 
theprestige said:
And yet here you are.
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Yes, that was indeed part of Noah's point.

One wouldn't say, "Believe me, I'd rather not be doing X," if one is not doing X.

Believe me, I'd rather not be explaining such basic concepts of communication.
 
PhantomWolf said:
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As such Trump and any apparent Obstruction of Justice was not covered by this question, nor by the way Comey answered it. So yeah you're wrong.
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That's quite a bit of effort to explain a concept that very few people need explained only to find it wasted as the posts are predictably relocated.
 
Bob001 said:
Do you really not get it? The Director of the FBI is not supposed to be on anybody's "team," and there are established procedures by which a President may inquire about an FBI investigation in those limited circumstances when it might be appropriate. Attempting to influence -- let alone shut down -- a federal investigation is way more than a "whole lotta nuthin."
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Well, to be honest, they should be on the American people's team.
 
BobTheCoward said:
I disagree.
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Then you're misguided and misinformed. In the US, we never take oaths to any individual, team or side, but the nation as a whole and it's guiding principles.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

In addition members of the judiciary take the following oath.

I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as (office) under the Constitution and laws of the United States. [So help me God.

Asking otherwise is un-American.
 
acbytesla said:
Then you're misguided and misinformed. In the US, we never take oaths to any individual, team or side, but the nation as a whole and it's guiding principles.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

In addition members of the judiciary take the following oath.

I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as (office) under the Constitution and laws of the United States. [So help me God.

Asking otherwise is un-American.
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Oaths are not magic. They have no power to limit the actions of the sweater, or hold institutions from diverging from the oath. An institution can operate one way and still administer an oath that is completely incongruent with it.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Oaths are not magic. They have no power to limit the actions of the sweater, or hold institutions from diverging from the oath. An institution can operate one way and still administer an oath that is completely incongruent with it.
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There are plenty of people who do take an oath serious. Hitler had military officers take an oath of loyalty to him personally, and reportedly, many had a moral problem breaking that oath. So, there you have a very good reason against oaths to a person, rather than to the institutions of state, and that makes Trumps request to Comey of personal loyalty the more odious.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Oaths are not magic. They have no power to limit the actions of the sweater, or hold institutions from diverging from the oath. An institution can operate one way and still administer an oath that is completely incongruent with it.
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I don't disagree. But that's not the point. Our loyalty is not to individuals or the team but to the nation and it's principles.
 
Stacko said:
He backtracked during yesterday's press conference and claimed the memo was the reason.
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Tony Stark said:
He's the most incompetent liar I've ever seen.
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I don't know if I'd classify that as a "lie." He always said he had made the decision before the recommendation. Then he got the recommendation. So he can already have made up his mind and the Rosenstein memo just confirmed what he was already thinking.

My question: If Rosenstein already knew Trump was going to fire Comey, why did he then write a memo recommending the firing?
 
xjx388 said:
I don't know if I'd classify that as a "lie." He always said he had made the decision before the recommendation. Then he got the recommendation. So he can already have made up his mind and the Rosenstein memo just confirmed what he was already thinking.

My question: If Rosenstein already knew Trump was going to fire Comey, why did he then write a memo recommending the firing?
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He describes so many things the letter is not, it makes you wonder why even bother writing it.

So many things it is not, it is like reading house of leaves.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Then he reverted back to the first story. If you live in an alt-reality you lose track. :p
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Seems like Rosenstein didn't get the updated PR memo:

Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill said deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein knew President Donald Trump was going to fire FBI Director James Comey before he wrote a memo recommending Trump do that.

Rosenstein gave a classified briefing for the full Senate in private on Thursday afternoon more than a week after Trump fired Comey and a day after he appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller as special counsel for all things related to Russian attempts to influence the 2016 election.

Because it was a closed briefing, it's unclear exactly how Rosenstein described how he knew Trump would fire Comey. But Sens. Tom Carper and Dick Durbin, both Democrats, and Sen. Susan Collins, a Republican, also confirmed similar details revealed during the briefing
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/18/politics/claire-mccaskill-rod-rosenstein-james-comey/
 
xjx388 said:
I don't know if I'd classify that as a "lie." He always said he had made the decision before the recommendation. Then he got the recommendation. So he can already have made up his mind and the Rosenstein memo just confirmed what he was already thinking.
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Dude, if you think this isn't about Trump trying to stop an investigation you have a long term memory problem. Trump praised all of Comey's actions when they got Trump elected. Only when Comey turned out to be investigating Trump and wasn't going to stop did Trump fire him.

Has Trump once since the 'lock her up' election slogan asked Comey to investigate anything Clinton? No.

Now that personality-disordered Trump is in trouble, he's resorted to claiming Obama and Clinton are the real criminals but poor wittle Trumpy is being treated so unfairly.
 
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xjx388 said:
My question: If Rosenstein already knew Trump was going to fire Comey, why did he then write a memo recommending the firing?
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That's a false memory you and half the country have adopted, no doubt because of the wording of the letter and how it was reported. There was no recommendation Comey be fired in that memo and in fact, Rosenstein repeated the letter was a statement of fact and not a recommendation Comey be fired.

The last paragraph in the letter:
Although the President has the power to remove an FBI director, the decision should not be taken lightly. I agree with the nearly unanimous opinions of former Department officials. The way the Director handled the conclusion of the email investigation was wrong. As a result, the FBI is unlikely to regain public and congressional trust until it has a Director who understands the gravity of the mistakes and pledges never to repeat them. Having refused to admit his errors, the Director cannot be expected to implement the necessary corrective actions.
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Firing was an option, but not the only one. Comey himself could have made that pledge.

The Hill
Rosenstein added during the closed-door meetings that the document "is not a statement of reasons to justify a for-cause termination."

"My memorandum is not a finding of official misconduct; the inspector general will render his judgement about the issue in due course," the No. 2 Justice Department official said.
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Trump did not wait for the IG report.
 
ddt said:
Still, it's more than a bit naive to still write the memorandum, full well knowing that it could be used as justification for firing Comey even when you know that Drumpf already had made up his mind for other reasons.
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I agree. Rosenstein appears to have his own problems with Trump worship.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I agree. Rosenstein appears to have his own problems with Trump worship.
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The News Hour video describes Comey as being less than enthusiastic about Rosenstein's nomination. Via the friend being interviewed, Comey indicated that Rosenstein was a "survivor", continuing to thrive in Republican and Democratic administrations. The implication was that he was more than capable of doing what needed to be done to keep the bosses happy.

Obviously, this is hardly irrefutable evidence, but it is consistent with his behavior regarding the memo.
 
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