G20 protests and Trump's fear-mongering speech in Poland

Darat said:
Which doesn't seem to have anything to do with the post of mine that you quoted?
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So in your world this:

Argumemnon said:
I have it on good authority that cultures change all the time, so that's all ok.
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Has nothing to do with this:

Darat said:
"by all means" what a strange phrase to use when defending "our" culture. Many "all means" would require us giving up our principles, our culture. But good of him to warn us that we must fight his attacks on "our" culture, for once I agree with him. Does the "west" have the will to defend itself against the likes of Trump's corruption of our principles? I think it does.
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?
 
Huh.
live-blog said:
0013 #nog20 special forces are pointing guns at reporters and media so they'll leave
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Seem to be interested in the Rote Flora, which they did not (yet?) storm.
Looks like #RoteFlora is NOT stormed. SEK squads with mache guns in the street but not storming the building. #NoG20 #NoG20en #antireport
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Joe Random said:
It's a short vid of cars on fire along a street, which one twitter user tagged with the above (obviously made up) quote. Not cop cars, not unsold vehicles at some luxury car dealership, but regular old civilian vehicles belonging to people who probably don't have the luxury of going without transportation because yet again a group of black clad, dickless wonders think burning and breaking other people's stuff is justifiable.
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But muh property!
 
From crimethinc's coverage.
The Police Lost Again Tonight in Hamburg

Why They Couldn’t Keep Control

Tonight, for the second night in a row, approximately 20,000 police armed with the best crowd control technology money can buy utterly lost control of downtown Hamburg. Last night was bad enough, with clashes and decentralized attacks continuing well past sunrise; tonight they were forced to withdraw completely from the Schanze neighborhood for several hours, as barricades burned in the intersections and thousands of people of all walks of life joyously celebrated a police-free zone. Now the mayor who invited the G20 to Hamburg is pleading for the end of the violence he started.

...
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Joe Random said:
It's a short vid of cars on fire along a street, which one twitter user tagged with the above (obviously made up) quote. Not cop cars, not unsold vehicles at some luxury car dealership, but regular old civilian vehicles belonging to people who probably don't have the luxury of going without transportation because yet again a group of black clad, dickless wonders think burning and breaking other people's stuff is justifiable.
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Which team is that won which championship? :confused:
 
Melanie Trump stuck at hotel not able to move around. So that's another victory point. Trump himself needed to be rerouted, but still managed to reach his destination, so I guess that's half a point.

Making the total so far two and a half victory points, and that just in the prelude to the big actions over the weekend, not bad...

That calls for a song :)
 
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caveman1917 said:
Melanie Trump stuck at hotel not able to move around. So that's another victory point. Trump himself needed to be rerouted, but still managed to reach his destination, so I guess that's half a point.

Making the total so far two and a half victory points, and that just in the prelude to the big actions over the weekend, not bad...

That calls for a song :)
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German hospitality.
Noted.
Glad I lived in Germany when people were more civil.
(Like Bader and Meihnoff :D )
I suspect that at least half of the German police think President Trump's an (rule10)hat, but are out there doing their jobs because it's what they do.
And the thanks they get is basement dwellers like our dear caveman cheering on the violence.
Nice.
 
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Aepervius said:
That is one way to view it. The view of the lokal german is more of "idiot protest against something on which they will have no effect, break stuff, and declare victory. Put them all in prison and let a few years behind bar teach them respect of society and not breaking stuff which does not belong to them" which pretty much is what we spoke this morning with all colleagues at the breakfast.

Same reaction as other year where most german think those protest are utterly unlawfull & idiotic and the people breaking stuff should land in prison, no matter the country where those anti G20/G6/G* protest happen.

In addition they break the german law by being masked.
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I learn't very early on, whilst being a squaddie in Dortmund, NEVER argue with a German policeman, they are always right, they are always armed.

Thankfully the overwhelming majority of German policeman are also pretty good guys and don't abuse things (too much paperwork if they do! ;)
 
There are protesters and then there are hooligans.
The G20 is an excuse for violence and vandalism for them - it has nothing to do with politics.

I would very much like to see a breakdown by nationality of those arrested and charged.
 
caveman1917 said:
Which local German, exactly? Plenty of local Germans in the protests, plenty of local German bystanders clearly supporting the protests, ... Surely you're not implying that the musings of a couple of idiots at the office are somehow representative, let alone more relevant or valid, merely because they are local and German idiots?
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That is at most 10K at those protest, and most are very young. Let us put that in perspective shall we ? They are young destructive idiot the same that at each G* make violent protest. The lokal german refer to all german I know from hamburg. And they have far more *shaper* word about the band of violent young cavemen (ETA not a jab at your username, but one at the idiocy of the people doing those protest), but citing them is against the member agreeement.
 
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caveman1917 said:
From crimethinc's coverage.
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That is because contrary to what you pretend the cop do not escalate, and use full force against them. Because otherwise really escalated those violent idiotic criminals you keep misnaming protester would have long been dead. They are only pretty much *containing* them which is the opposite of escalation.
 
Darth Rotor said:
German hospitality.
Noted.
Glad I lived in Germany when people were more civil.
(Like Bader and Meihnoff :D )
I suspect that at least half of the German police think President Trump's an (rule10)hat, but are out there doing their jobs because it's what they do.
And the thanks they get is basement dwellers like our dear caveman cheering on the violence.
Nice.
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I would expect most of these anarchists aren't German. When things like this happen, anarchists bus in from all over Europe. I was in Florence once when these groups tried to take over an Italian Communist Party (I forget which one, there are three) march. The anarchists were from Spain, Germany, France, the UK.
 
Aepervius said:
That is at most 10K at those protest, and most are very young. Let us put that in perspective shall we ? They are young destructive idiot the same that at each G* make violent protest. The lokal german refer to all german I know from hamburg. And they have far more *shaper* word about the band of violent young cavemen (ETA not a jab at your username, but one at the idiocy of the people doing those protest), but citing them is against the member agreeement.
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They should point their outrage against the irresponsible morons who thought it was a good idea to hold that meeting in the middle of Germany's second largest city with its largest autonomous scene. These riots are a ritual since decades and that they would escalate at such an event was not only predictable but "so sicher wie das Amen in der Kirche".
 
Darat said:
As far as I can see no. By all means explain your reasoning.
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You must be joking. You must be trolling me. A man of your intelligence can't possibly not understand the relation.

Both of them are about changing cultures. One of them says it's a bad thing, the other that it's not. Of course, both have been posted by the same member, so maybe said member just wants to avoid admitting to hypocrisy.
 
Argumemnon said:
You must be joking. You must be trolling me. A man of your intelligence can't possibly not understand the relation.

Both of them are about changing cultures. One of them says it's a bad thing, the other that it's not. Of course, both have been posted by the same member, so maybe said member just wants to avoid admitting to hypocrisy.
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Have you not come previously come across this issue with this member? I thought you'd been here a while?
 
Aepervius said:
That is at most 10K at those protest, and most are very young. Let us put that in perspective shall we ? They are young destructive idiot the same that at each G* make violent protest.
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What violent protest? The only violence I've seen so far has come from the police, and yes they are indeed destructive idiots.

The lokal german refer to all german I know from hamburg. And they have far more *shaper* word about the band of violent young cavemen (ETA not a jab at your username, but one at the idiocy of the people doing those protest), but citing them is against the member agreeement.
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The Germans I know from Hamburg also have nice words for the Germans you know, but we'll keep it at "idiots".

Aepervius said:
No it is counting as justified reaction, reaction that many folk von hamburg are clamoring for, and are hoping the protester get arrested , reamed hard, and put to gaol.
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Well of course there are folk in Hamburg clamoring for violent suppression of protests, this is Germany after all.

Aepervius said:
That is because contrary to what you pretend the cop do not escalate, and use full force against them. Because otherwise really escalated those violent idiotic criminals you keep misnaming protester would have long been dead. They are only pretty much *containing* them which is the opposite of escalation.
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Escalation it is. Anyway, we then clear that the protesters are now also justified in wearing full body armor and assault rifles so as to protest?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
That's just wrong, all those fires, all those cars burning, how are those productive or deserving targets?

I don't get it.
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Breaking News: liberal found something to have moral qualms about!

Could it be the scores of injuries left after some random gang attacks people in the streets? Could it be the dozens of people lying unconscious on the ground after that gang employs chemical weapons[*] against people in the streets? Could it be the gang trying to spray people of a rooftop so as to make them fall to their deaths?

No, of course not, it's that the delusions of some random middle class people have been disputed. They'll have to ride the bus with the poor folks for a while now. The poor folks, bweeeuh! How dare they make them sit in the same vehicle with these people, it's a moral outrage!

* which would by the Geneva conventions be illegal to use against an opposing army, but which are perfectly legal to use against your own population...funny how that works
 
The Great Zaganza said:
There are protesters and then there are hooligans.
The G20 is an excuse for violence and vandalism for them
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What violence?

- it has nothing to do with politics.
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Yeah that must be why they're shouting political slogans and carrying political banners and such.

I would very much like to see a breakdown by nationality of those arrested and charged.
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First make some enemy image up in your imagination and then blame the foreigners for it. You German too by any chance?

ETA: well look at that
Update 10:54am NoG20 Hamburg: Attention cops are looking for foreign activists.
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Your own population revolts against your **** so you get your goons to start looking for and attacking foreigners. Germany, some things do never change indeed.
 
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caveman1917 said:
Breaking News: liberal found something to have moral qualms about!

Could it be the scores of injuries left after some random gang attacks people in the streets? Could it be the dozens of people lying unconscious on the ground after that gang employs chemical weapons[*] against people in the streets? Could it be the gang trying to spray people of a rooftop so as to make them fall to their deaths?

No, of course not, it's that the delusions of some random middle class people have been disputed. They'll have to ride the bus with the poor folks for a while now. The poor folks, bweeeuh! How dare they make them sit in the same vehicle with these people, it's a moral outrage!

* which would by the Geneva conventions be illegal to use against an opposing army, but which are perfectly legal to use against your own population...funny how that works
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OMG, that's one heck of a WTF POV. :boggled:
 
Childlike Empress said:
They should point their outrage against the irresponsible morons who thought it was a good idea to hold that meeting in the middle of Germany's second largest city with its largest autonomous scene. These riots are a ritual since decades and that they would escalate at such an event was not only predictable but "so sicher wie das Amen in der Kirche".
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But ... but ... the City of Hamburg had wanted the G20 to show ase their security competence with a view to strengthen their bid for the Olympic Games 2024!
Oh wait...
 
Childlike Empress said:
They should point their outrage against the irresponsible morons who thought it was a good idea to hold that meeting in the middle of Germany's second largest city with its largest autonomous scene. These riots are a ritual since decades and that they would escalate at such an event was not only predictable but "so sicher wie das Amen in der Kirche".
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I place the responsibility solely on those who are responsible of their act : the vandal, the barbare at the gate, the immature idiot sociopath, the one burning stuff down which does not belong to them.
 
caveman1917 said:
What violent protest? The only violence I've seen so far has come from the police, and yes they are indeed destructive idiots.
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I am sorry ? The police escalating ? WHO is burning stuff down ? WHO came with face mask despite it being against the law ? WHO throw stuff at the police ?

OK you are clear "into" an extremist scene and have lost all sight of what the general population think.

No need anymore to discuss this, you have come to an irrational conclusion by irrational means, and there will be no convincing.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
OMG, that's one heck of a WTF POV. :boggled:
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And that is now the second time that you've made that useless remark as a response. The first time was some time before the presidential election, when you were doing the "vote for Hillary Clinton!" thing and I argued that it was better to build on your own strength to enforce directly the policies you want rather than hope for politicians to do it for you, pointing you to the then-ongoing French revolt against the Loi de Travail as an example.

I'd be glad to let you know that the Loi de Travail did indeed get rescinded under pressure from below[*], do let me know how voting for Hillary has worked out for you so far.

* which I'm sure you had a lot of moral qualms with as well
 
caveman1917 said:
The "whatever" on that particular point passed a long time ago already.
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Have you figured out by now that the three armoured personel vehicles simply had nothing at all to do with the demonstrations and riots? No logistics, no support, not even intimidation.

The Bundeswehr has several compounds in Hamburg. These three Fuchs were originally parked at the "Generalleutnant-Graf-von-Baudissin" Barracks in Hamburg-Osdorf, a western quarter that belongs to the district of Altona, but Altona proper, where some of the protests are, and where there is a center of autonomous chaots, lies further east. Apparently, as the Bundeswehr compounds were propping up their own securitry for the G20, it was figured that space was a little tight at Graf-von-Baudissin, and that there is much more space at the nearby Reichspräsident-Ebert-Barracks in Hamburg-Iserbrook, even further west and 2 km further away from the city. So the relocated - re-parked the three Fuchs.

It's probably far from unusual that military vehicles move between the two barracks, and other compounds. Perhaps a badly chosen day, but **** happens.

http://faktenfinder.tagesschau.de/inland/panzer-hamburg-101.html
 
It is crazy that people think having a few bonfires in the street and looting a shop is 'revolutionary'.

Fires look impressive, sure, but at the end of the day, burning a few bins or people's random cars, means zippo.
 
Aepervius said:
I am sorry ? The police escalating ? WHO is burning stuff down ? WHO came with face mask despite it being against the law ?
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Wearing a face mask is violence?

WHO throw stuff at the police ?
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The police threw stuff first. Besides, bottles vs chemical weapons, who's the violent ones here?

OK you are clear "into" an extremist scene and have lost all sight of what the general population think.
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60% of the general population thinks that democracy isn't real, about 50% is for abolishing the state, 40% wants to replace capitalism with socialism and 20% wants revolution.

No need anymore to discuss this, you have come to an irrational conclusion by irrational means, and there will be no convincing.
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And of course you don't have to back up your claims with, you know, actual polls because who needs evidence right? This be a rational place, we spit on evidence, we got idiotic ideologies and over-active imaginations instead, we be rational dammit!
 
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Vixen said:
It is crazy that people think having a few bonfires in the street and looting a shop is 'revolutionary'.

Fires look impressive, sure, but at the end of the day, burning a few bins or people's random cars, means zippo.
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The stated goals are to disrupt the G20 meeting, so it seems only right to judge things by those standards. And they got 2.5 points on it already, which really isn't all that bad as far as these things go.
 
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