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12th July 2017, 09:49 PM | #121 |
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After thinking about this I changed my mind. You can indeed know with great accuracy what would have happened had the change not occurred. Besides that there is already a huge body of evidence that points to the fact that gun control, including a ban on concealed carry, leads to a reduction in gun related crime. The fact remains that the states with the strictest gun laws have the fewest gun related deaths.
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13th July 2017, 03:45 AM | #122 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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13th July 2017, 04:33 AM | #123 |
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13th July 2017, 04:34 AM | #124 |
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13th July 2017, 07:55 AM | #125 |
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Biased article is biased. I trust the source of that article about as much as I trust the NRA.
Except for that pesky California, which dog gone it, seems to clock in around 2,500 to 3,000 fatalities a year from firearms, no matter what. You'd think somebody want to might to starting trying to get at the root of underlying issues that drive people toward murder and suicide rather than the method used. Naw, way easier to draft anti-gun legislation and make it look like our leaders are actually doing something other than sucking up a paycheck. |
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13th July 2017, 08:33 AM | #126 |
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So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts. |
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13th July 2017, 08:52 AM | #127 |
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13th July 2017, 08:56 AM | #128 |
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You are supposed to be scared of guns, otherwise the thought that telling a cop that you are armed shouldn't be reasonable for them to panic and shoot. As it has been found to be reasonable to panic just because someone is carrying a legal fire arm clearly at least the police know that people with guns are terrifying and something everyone should feel is a threat.
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13th July 2017, 09:02 AM | #129 | |||
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How true that is.
I Live in the city with the strictest set of gun control laws in a gun control happy state. None of those laws prevented this - go to 1:33 - 1:34. That's automatic weapon (or a semi-auto with an illegal trigger activator) fire:
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13th July 2017, 09:05 AM | #130 |
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13th July 2017, 09:37 AM | #131 |
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13th July 2017, 09:48 AM | #132 |
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So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts. |
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13th July 2017, 09:48 AM | #133 |
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13th July 2017, 10:38 AM | #134 |
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Why should law-abiding citizens have to apply for a permit to carry a concealed weapon? Why should we have background checks on guns if criminals will still get guns? Hell, a background check means someone with bad intentions will obtain his firearm by financially supporting criminal characters; if we had no restrictions, then he'd purchase his gun from a taxpayer. It's almost as if the discussion should have to do with the extent of gun control, not the legitimacy of regulation. It's almost as if the discussion should be informed by statistics than than intuition.
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13th July 2017, 10:46 AM | #135 |
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Yea but you always cover for them and make sure they get their severance packages and jobs at different departments. In exactly how many of these shootings does the partner testify against the killer?
It always seems to be only the crappy cops around whenever there is a shooting, why aren't the supposed majority of cops who are good ever around? The answer is simple it is about 15% bad cops 15% good cops and 70% neutral cops. BUt the culture is sure to weed out the good ones so that the neutral ones know to protect the bad ones. I would testify against my coworkers if they freak out and kill someone, but that seems far to high a standard to hold cops to. |
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13th July 2017, 10:47 AM | #136 |
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13th July 2017, 01:57 PM | #137 |
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13th July 2017, 02:15 PM | #138 |
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I'm strongly inclined to think that most cops are good cops, but I also know that different police departments sometimes have very different cultures and that some tolerate a lot more corruption than others. Have you ever been in a situation where you witnessed misconduct on the part of another officer? If so, how did you handle it?
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13th July 2017, 02:44 PM | #139 |
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13th July 2017, 08:32 PM | #140 |
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No, you can't know the latter but the previous data are a first approximation that may need adjusting. The point is while we can't know alternative futures there are valid methods to make reasonable forecasts. It's done with the weather, stock markets, quarterly earnings forecasts, ticket sales, etc., etc. There's no reason it can't be done for guns.
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13th July 2017, 08:35 PM | #141 |
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No, the only thing that is clear is that you didn't supply a citation. How I interacted with Mark F. is entirely irrelevant to my request of you. Which is even more pertinent since there was nothing in his last post to ask a citation for.
C'mon. Zig, you slip is showing. |
13th July 2017, 08:46 PM | #142 |
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13th July 2017, 08:54 PM | #143 |
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Nothing. Of course. But I'll bet you'd agree that he gets more credible threats against his life than you do. Sufficient in number, in fact, to justify additional cautionary measures. That's all. I don't think those precautionary measures justify calling Bloomberg a hypocrite,
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13th July 2017, 10:05 PM | #144 |
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The problem is that this forecast falls down when confronted with data:
They say (quoting Arth's OP): "because more guns in public is supposed to reduce crimes, then we should expect states to see less crime as "Shall Issue" laws kick in. The Stanford team found precisely the opposite: "Ten years after the adoption of RTC laws," they write, "violent crime is estimated to be 13-15 percent higher than it would have been without the RTC law." But here's the inconvenient truth that sinks them: "People with concealed carry licenses are: 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public" "A different study concludes that the four year violent crime arrest rate for CCW holders is 128 per 100,000. For the general population, it is 710 per 100,000. In other words, CCW holders are 5.5 times less likely to commit a violent crime" Given that, in states with widespread CC it's typically 5% to 10% of the adult population who have permits (http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/...ted-States.pdf) we can see that CCW holders are responsible for somewhere in the range of 1% or 2% of violent crimes (1/5th the rate x 5% or 10% of population)... so how can they be responsible for a 13-15% raise? It's nonsensical... |
14th July 2017, 01:30 AM | #145 |
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14th July 2017, 03:00 AM | #147 |
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But why aren't all these guns and CCW permits reducing crime, like the gun rights lobby say they should? The study in the OP made a fair prediction based on the claim, and found it did not stand up.
Unfortunately, whenever a study makes a finding the gun lobby doesn't like, the data is chopped and crunched in so many ways no none can see what it says any more. And the massacres continue, and Americans keep dying. |
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14th July 2017, 06:49 AM | #148 |
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So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts. |
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14th July 2017, 06:51 AM | #149 |
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14th July 2017, 06:53 AM | #150 |
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14th July 2017, 09:26 AM | #151 |
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14th July 2017, 11:19 AM | #152 |
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Except statistically, the crime victimization rate of former mayors of major metros is far lass than the criminal victimization rate of just about anyone else and it for sure isn't because the disparity in numbers between the mayors and the genpop.
The best security in the world is status and power. Bloomberg has all of it. |
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14th July 2017, 06:05 PM | #153 |
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I'm sure he does too. But that doesn't lessen the severity of the threats to my family and I. They are sufficient in number, in fact, to justify additional cautionary measures.
It is, when he's actively working to deny those precautionary measures he justifies for himself to us Ordinary Joes. |
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14th July 2017, 08:00 PM | #154 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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14th July 2017, 08:08 PM | #155 |
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15th July 2017, 09:33 AM | #156 |
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15th July 2017, 09:43 AM | #157 |
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15th July 2017, 12:23 PM | #158 |
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No, no. Criminals would have guns which makes them easy to identify. Anybody walking the street with a gun is a bad guy. They are arrested, their guns are confiscated , and they go through a legal process that is expensive for them and almost always ends in a prison sentence. It's work in many countries where citizens had an equal love affair with guns.
In Canada it is easy to tell a law abiding citizen from a criminal when it comes to gun ownership. A law abiding citizen is on their way to, or returning from, a destination where it is legal to use firearms. A criminal has a gun anywhere else. Or it could be that Americans are really as dumb as the stereotype suggests and just can't be taught gun safety. |
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16th July 2017, 01:48 AM | #159 |
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That highlighted word makes mince meat of your point. How many perps of violent crime actually get arrested? All you data shows is that CCW holders are careful not to be arrested.
Ok, ok, that's not fair. But it is fair to point out that arrest records do not reflect actual crime rates. My bold. You see the problem. One cannot equate arrest rates with crime rates. Period. For the reason cited above. Your equating crime rate with arrest rate is fallacious. |
16th July 2017, 01:55 AM | #160 |
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Agreed.
What is "sufficient"? One threat? 18 threats? And how are we to measure "credible"? As an aside, are you stating that you are sufficiently well known that you receive a "sufficient" number of "credible" threats to you and your family that justifies armed protection? Cecile, is that you? |
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