Australian woman shot dead by Minneapolis police

Mark F said:
I live in Minneapolis. This happened about a mile away from me. Last week an officer jumped a backyard fence while responding to a residential burglar alarm and shot the two dogs that were in the yard, all of which was caught on video.
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Not to mention, this (a close-by suburb) is where the Philando Castile incident took place. (CCW holder reaching for ID shot by police). I have a couple of friends on the force but even I'm wondering WTF is going on now.
 
Argumemnon said:
Seemed to work for Zimmerman, to name one.
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Z convinced a jury that he was actually being assaulted. But he wasn't dumb enough to claim -- as cops routinely do -- "I thought he had a gun in his pocket" or "I thought that shiny cigarette lighter was a gun," etc. Imagine a cab driver saying "i had a bad feeling about that passenger, so I just had to shoot him." That only works for cops.
 
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alfaniner said:
Not to mention, this (a close-by suburb) is where the Philando Castile incident took place. (CCW holder reaching for ID shot by police). I have a couple of friends on the force but even I'm wondering WTF is going on now.
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Same region, but different police departments, as I recall.
 
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I made my comment about the lack of body cam footage prior to knowing that the police had not exited the vehicle. I don't know anything the policies regarding when dash cams and body cams are required to be recording. As far as comments about forum members on the fence, that is where I am until there is more info available.

Shooting through the car door seems to be an unusual action. No idea if it was deliberate or negligent.
 
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Bob001 said:
Z convinced a jury that he was actually being assaulted. But he wasn't dumb enough to claim -- as cops routinely do -- "I thought he had a gun in his pocket" or "I thought that shiny cigarette lighter was a gun," etc. Imagine a cab driver saying "i had a bad feeling about that passenger, so I just had to shoot him." That only works for cops.
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IIRC he claimed, the other guy was going for my gun...
 
Aber said:
IIRC he claimed, the other guy was going for my gun...
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Z was an aberration. That why was it was a national story for months. We don't need to go down that road. Generally speaking, civilians are held to stricter standards than actual armed, trained law enforcement officers, who can pretty much open fire at will.
 
NoahFence said:
We is all of us. Including those who don't seem to know how to read.

He said "this country"

This incident is part of a pattern throughout the country.
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There's almost 18,000 police agencies in the US. The majority of these are limited in their jurisdictions. Their shortcomings are properly the responsibility of the communities that authorized them. I don't need a "pattern throughout the country" to identify and correct deficiencies in my local PD. People in Minneapolis don't need me to be aware of a "pattern throughout the country" to identify and correct problems in their local PD.

Now, if you said there was a "pattern throughout the FBI (or the DEA, or the ATF)", and "we" need to do something about it, that would be a different story.
 
Ranb said:
I made my comment about the lack of body cam footage prior to knowing that the police had not exited the vehicle. I don't know anything the policies regarding when dash cams and body cams are required to be recording. As far as comments about forum members on the fence, that is where I am until there is more info available.
....
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It would make more sense to require cops to turn on their cameras when they get a radio call. They could even tell the dispatchers "Camera activated." That would protect them from recording idle chatter on patrol, but would ensure that an emergency response would be recorded from beginning to end.
 
No that it really means anything, but why would a reporter include this bit?
Hannah said there's no way Damond would have had a gun. She often talked about how much better it was in Australia, where people aren't allowed to have guns, Hannah said.
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It just shows how ill informed a person associated with the victim is and adds nothing to the story.
 
Ranb said:
No that it really means anything, but why would a reporter include this bit?

It just shows how ill informed a person associated with the victim is and adds nothing to the story.
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You can't move to the Wild West and pretend you are still at home. It's US .. you treat everyone armed and hostile. Especially police.
 
This will be a great case of "There's always more to the story." But this is one of the rare times I simply cannot imagine any scenario where this would happen.
 
a_unique_person said:
Clearly something that makes her very suspicious and likely to be shot by police.
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Would that be impossible? Should I not ask such questions at a skeptic's site?

casebro said:
She might have been pulling a Mike Brown, reaching in to grab the driver's gun?

Her friend that described her as "passionate" might have meant "paranoid delusional manic depressive schizophrenic sociopath".

I wonder if the driver cop has fingernail tracks across his face?

Have we gotten the cop's story yet? Press conference by P.D.?
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That's why I asked. The kid went into detail until that point. How often do survivors condemn the family member who was shot? Never? Gentle Giant and all that.

Doesn't mean she deserved to be shot. But being white and from Australia doesn't automatically make you innocent either. Let's remain skeptical. These are exactly the kinds of cases that warrant skepticism. Any dolt can say, "Oh it's the cops fault it always is". Without further details that is exactly what people here are doing.

Can't tell whether you're serious. She was the person who called the cops. That kind of argues against what you're suggesting about her.
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Kind of, but not necessarily.

We don't know any details yet at all. Yes, it sounds bad, but we've seen how additional facts can complicate such an "obvious" story.
 
alfaniner said:
This will be a great case of "There's always more to the story." But this is one of the rare times I simply cannot imagine any scenario where this would happen.
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I've said that a lot at this site and have been proven wrong. Like I said, it looks bad but that isn't enough. We know very little about this incident.
 
Ranb said:
No that it really means anything, but why would a reporter include this bit?

It just shows how ill informed a person associated with the victim is and adds nothing to the story.
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Because America has a gun problem. With so many out there it's not surprising police have twitchy trigger fingers. In my part of Australia we read of cops getting assaulted while doing their jobs. This in itself is a serious problem but people aren't being killed.

We have people speculating that passionate might be translated to erratic, but someone who might have been having a bad day should not end up being dead.
 
Yes, cops might get twitchy .. I understand that .. but their damn job is to PROTECT. They must be held responsible. The must know they will be held responsible. They must think twice. Yes, thinking twice will put them at more risk .. but that's preferable to current situation, where the risk is on the random population, or even person calling the police.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Yes, cops might get twitchy .. I understand that .. but their damn job is to PROTECT. They must be held responsible. The must know they will be held responsible. They must think twice. Yes, thinking twice will put them at more risk .. but that's preferable to current situation, where the risk is on the random population, or even person calling the police.
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They must be well selected and trained and work within a clear culture, cultuvated by strong leadership, that strives to avoid such situations. All costs tax money.
 
Ranb said:
No that it really means anything, but why would a reporter include this bit?

It just shows how ill informed a person associated with the victim is and adds nothing to the story.
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How is the person "ill informed"? If the woman said that and he's just repeating what she said, how is the "ill informed"?
 
a_unique_person said:
No body cams working. Woman is blonde and white.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...s/news-story/c70e5bd988eb4a995125da452e25d46c

Interesting to see how this case goes.
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The fact that the cop was one of those Somalian "refugees" that should not have even been allowed to step foot in the United States moves this from tragedy to travesty.

This is what happens when people who didn't even have an alphabet until the 1970s are given guns and let lose in a country that has electricity and indoor plumbing.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
The fact that the cop was one of those Somalian "refugees" that should not have even been allowed to step foot in the United States moves this from tragedy to travesty.

This is what happens when people who didn't even have an alphabet until the 1970s are given guns and let lose in a country that has electricity and indoor plumbing.
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I was waiting for something that stupid to be posted. I didn't think it would take that long.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
The fact that the cop was one of those Somalian "refugees" that should not have even been allowed to step foot in the United States moves this from tragedy to travesty.

This is what happens when people who didn't even have an alphabet until the 1970s are given guns and let lose in a country that has electricity and indoor plumbing.
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This and the many similar tragedies are the result of American cultural failings, not Somalian.
 
Bob001 said:
Where was it pointed? I'm a civilian, and even I know that the first and last rule of firearms safety is that you never point a gun at anything you don't intend to kill.

A middle rule is that you don't touch the trigger until you have aimed at your target. Even combat soldiers are trained to keep their finger outside the trigger guard until they are ready to fire. This cop could just as easily have killed his partner.
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You're correct on all counts. If the facts are as what is being reported, the officer violated not just one but two basic safety rules.

The reality is that you can train troops or officers all day long, and as soon as they get out of your sight, some of them will ignore all of your instruction.

It's bad enough when they kill themselves:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Rookie-S-F-cop-accidentally-shoots-himself-2547628.php

"San Francisco police Officer James Gustafson Jr. was just getting started on what he intended to be a career in law enforcement when he accidentally shot himself to death as he socialized with friends at his apartment, his father and authorities said Monday."

When they kill an innocent person or their partner it's even worse.
 
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There is an unassailable fact, Had he not been in LE he would not have killed this woman.
It is a form of accident.
I think society should have more tolerance for accidents.
But no tolerance for the NRA.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
The fact that the cop was one of those Somalian "refugees" that should not have even been allowed to step foot in the United States moves this from tragedy to travesty.

This is what happens when people who didn't even have an alphabet until the 1970s are given guns and let lose in a country that has electricity and indoor plumbing.
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Read a little history - The Somali contingent that fought in Korea were actually singled out for their skills and bravery by no less an authority than S.L.A. Marshall.

Properly trained and led, Somalis are gtg.
 
a_unique_person said:
In wondering about PTSD?
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IME, a possibility, but while one of the effects of PTSD is hyper vigilance, that doesn't explain firing across his partner through the vehicle.

There was something going on that as of yet we have no answers for.

Not to derail the thread, put PTSD usually manifests itself as self destructive behavior. Violence against others does occur, but those numbers are dwarfed by the numbers of sufferers that self medicate with alcohol or drugs (street or otherwise) or commit suicide.

The stereotype of the wild eyed vet holding people hostage armed with the M16 he stole before he ETS'd is an invention of fiction writers.
 
Dr.Sid said:
You can't move to the Wild West and pretend you are still at home. It's US .. you treat everyone armed and hostile. Especially police.
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That would make sense if the USA was the wild west. Things need to get a lot worse before I treat everyone as hostile.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
The fact that the cop was one of those Somalian "refugees" that should not have even been allowed to step foot in the United States moves this from tragedy to travesty.
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The only website I've seen so far that describes this officer as a refugee is the stupid rag WND. Where are you getting your information from?

This is what happens when people who didn't even have an alphabet until the 1970s are given guns and let lose in a country that has electricity and indoor plumbing.
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Actually your claim is what happens when you let your judgement be clouded with hate and prejudice. While the Somali government adopted a Latin script to write their language in 1972, they had used other writing systems for centuries.

Where are you getting your information on plumbing in Somalia? The same place as the other crap you spout? Surely you understand that all legal US residents have the same 2nd amendment rights as citizens? Probably not.

Until more information becomes available we can do without your "but but but he's blak!!!" crap.
 
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