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Old 13th September 2017, 03:40 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
The way I read it, Aridas did not claim that ID exists, he only claimed that the concept of ID exists. Which is true for the concept of Santa Claus too.
I hoped that it was pretty clear from what I posted that I understood this, but that the notion of the concept (of anything) existing is unimportant when we are discussing the actuality. In other words, if we're discussing the existence of unicorns, it isn't really helpful if someone comes along and says "the concept of unicorns exists".
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:18 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I'm struggling to see the value in this thinking. Put "Santa Claus" in your post wherever you see "ID", and you are claiming, in essence, that Santa Claus exists because it is a well known concept. I really don't see how this contributes anything useful to a discussion about the reality or otherwise of Santa Claus, or of ID.
Exactly.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:20 AM   #43
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Alright I wasn't aware that one off statement was going to be this controversial.

What I meant was that Intelligent Design isn't some real opinion that people actually hold. It's a marketing ploy. It was specifically and intentionally (and openly admitted to being) created to backdoor good old fashioned religious creationism myths into science classes.

Creationism, 100% wrong as it is, is at least an opinion that people honestly hold and has developed naturally and organically. Intelligent Design was all but created in a marketing meeting.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:24 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
What I meant was that Intelligent Design isn't some real opinion that people actually hold. It's a marketing ploy. It was specifically and intentionally (and openly admitted to being) created to backdoor good old fashioned religious creationism myths into science classes.
Question: Do you suppose there are non-theists who believe that there does at least appear to be design in nature?

My point is, I don't think that that position is 100% religious.

To be clear, it's not a position I hold.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:29 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Question: Do you suppose there are non-theists who believe that there does at least appear to be design in nature?

My point is, I don't think that that position is 100% religious.

To be clear, it's not a position I hold.
I'm not gonna play a rousing game of "Find the technicality/exception."

ID has been around long enough that perhaps some of the rank and file have started to believe the mythology. And "design" arguments do exist that pre-date ID. "The world is too designed to not have a God" goes at least as far back as Aquinas.

But Intelligent Design itself is not a personal level opinion, it's a pseudo-scientific educational movement.
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:17 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
What I meant was that Intelligent Design isn't some real opinion that people actually hold. It's a marketing ploy. It was specifically and intentionally (and openly admitted to being) created to backdoor good old fashioned religious creationism myths into science classes.
Put together by the cdesign proponentsists.
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Old 13th September 2017, 07:08 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
That is how evolution is supposed to function. The counter-argument is called "irreducible complexity", where "a plausible sequence of different versions, though improved rather than inferior" seems to be very difficult to suggest, if you are given a pencil and diagrams of the earlier and later version, and you should draw between them slowly evolving variants which are constantly "improved rather than inferior".
That's a bit of a straw man, because we know that a small mutation in the genome can have a large change in the phenotype. There don't have to be all those gradual changes. For example, the offspring of an insect could have an extra pair of legs compared with the parent due to the replication of a section of DNA, there would not need to be several generations with increasing proportions of the extra pair of legs.
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Old 13th September 2017, 07:14 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I'm struggling to see the value in this thinking. Put "Santa Claus" in your post wherever you see "ID", and you are claiming, in essence, that Santa Claus exists because it is a well known concept.
Not even remotely. I'm hard pressed to see how you got from my words to that.

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I really don't see how this contributes anything useful to a discussion about the reality or otherwise of Santa Claus, or of ID.
When it doesn't even remotely resemble what was actually said, that's hardly a surprise.
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Old 13th September 2017, 07:33 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
Nobody requires the path to be straight. The irreducible complexity argument questions the existence of any possible and plausible path whatsoever.
In addition, even if a possible and plausible path can be presented, they may well try to treat it as if it doesn't exist anytime that it's not brought up specifically each time they make the claim or dismiss it as speculation, if they can get away with it in that case. The arguments surrounding the eye that quote mine from Darwin's book show that quite well enough.

Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
Its counter-argument would be suggesting such a path, but as I have said a few times, this is a detail which the opponents of evolutionism love to focus on, and the proponents tend to ignore.
Ehh... that feels like a bit of a misrepresentation. The proponents actually tend not to ignore such. Rather, they're far more likely to rely on a couple reasonable principles to address such. First, the challenges are not being thrown out from a position of knowledge or understanding, but rather from a position of throwing a lot of mud at a wall and hoping that some sticks. Alternately, one could invoke the concept of grasping at straws. Second, that numerous such arguments have already been shown to be in error, with no good reason presented to treat any of the remainder differently. In fact, for many of them, it's not actually reasonable to expect us to have all the answers yet, given our current best levels of understanding. While we've come very far, there's so very much more left to explore and discover, after all.
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Old 13th September 2017, 07:35 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Not even remotely. I'm hard pressed to see how you got from my words to that.
And yet at least two members did.

But using the Principle of Charity, I'll accept that's not what you meant.
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Old 13th September 2017, 07:40 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
First, the challenges are not being thrown out from a position of knowledge or understanding, but rather from a position of throwing a lot of mud at a wall and hoping that some sticks. Alternately, one could invoke the concept of grasping at straws. Second, that numerous such arguments have already been shown to be in error, with no good reason presented to treat any of the remainder differently. In fact, for many of them, it's not actually reasonable to expect us to have all the answers yet, given our current best levels of understanding. While we've come very far, there's so very much more left to explore and discover, after all.
And third, the challenges are generally the first stage of a goalpost-moving exercise. The ID proponent starts by saying that there is no plausible route by which a set of changes could have occurred; the rationalist responds by proposing just such a route; the ID proponent then demands proof that the proposed route was the actual route by which the change occurred, and implies that in the absence of any such proof the theory of evolution has somehow been falsified. It's a standard technique in pseudoscience; first argue from incredulity, then abruptly shift the burden of proof when that incredulity is seen to be groundless.

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Old 13th September 2017, 07:48 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I hoped that it was pretty clear from what I posted that I understood this, but that the notion of the concept (of anything) existing is unimportant when we are discussing the actuality. In other words, if we're discussing the existence of unicorns, it isn't really helpful if someone comes along and says "the concept of unicorns exists".
When the original claim being responded to was that the concept of ID doesn't really exist, as JoeBentley was kind enough to repeat right after your post...

Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
Alright I wasn't aware that one off statement was going to be this controversial.

What I meant was that Intelligent Design isn't some real opinion that people actually hold. It's a marketing ploy. It was specifically and intentionally (and openly admitted to being) created to backdoor good old fashioned religious creationism myths into science classes.

Creationism, 100% wrong as it is, is at least an opinion that people honestly hold and has developed naturally and organically. Intelligent Design was all but created in a marketing meeting.
Speaking of which, did you miss the part where ID is pretty much inseparable from creationism, JoeBentley? Of Pandas and People, the ID textbook that they pushed, was shown to originally have been using "creationists" rather than than "design proponents," as one of many examples. Intelligent Design IS some real opinion that people actually hold, regardless of whether its right or wrong, rebranded or not. It's not science, yes, but that's actually pretty irrelevant to the argument that you're actually making.
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Old 13th September 2017, 07:52 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
And yet at least two members did.

But using the Principle of Charity, I'll accept that's not what you meant.
It would hardly be the first time that multiple people ignored the context and content of my posts here (sometimes even that found within a simple sentence) to try to challenge me to defend claims that I wasn't remotely making, to put it kindly.
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Old 13th September 2017, 07:55 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
When the original claim being responded to was that the concept of ID doesn't really exist, as JoeBentley was kind enough to repeat right after your post...

Speaking of which, did you miss the part where ID is pretty much inseparable from creationism, JoeBentley? Of Pandas and People, the ID textbook that they pushed, was shown to originally have been using "creationists" rather than than "Intelligent design proponents," as one of many examples. Intelligent Design IS some real opinion that people actually hold, regardless of whether its right or wrong, rebranded or not. It's not science, yes, but that's actually pretty irrelevant to the argument that you're actually making.
Okay don't understand what completely non-semantic point you are making, what distinction you are pushing, or what hill you are dying to defend here so... YOU WIN! *Hands you a ribbon and a trophy.*
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Old 13th September 2017, 08:05 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
Okay don't understand what completely non-semantic point you are making, what distinction you are pushing, or what hill you are dying to defend here so... YOU WIN! *Hands you a ribbon and a trophy.*
*sigh* The simple version is that you chose to make blatantly false statements. I pointed out that they were false and why they were false. If you didn't actually mean them as you formulated them, just try to do better in the future.
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Old 13th September 2017, 10:30 AM   #56
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I know many people who perceive both the reality of evolution and the appearance of design. Some of those believe in actual design as well (e.g. spiritual influences from higher planes influencing evolution toward some purpose), while others don't. Only some of them are Christians. Of course, none of them are Biblical Creationists.

One important thing about evolution that we don't often emphasize is that it can be viewed as a complex and massive ongoing computation. The process includes genomes that store information in a persistent and yet changeable structure, like synapses in our brains and memory arrays in computers. Individual organisms integrate a large number of inputs into a single go/no-go threshold (of whether or not the individual successfully produces surviving offspring), much like the firing of neurons in our brains or the operation of logic gates in a computer. And like brains and computers, the biosphere contains large numbers of these elements interacting simultaneously.

So, though evolution has no apparent goal and no observable supervisory sentience, that doesn't make it random or simple or straightforward.

This wouldn't matter if the only people questioning evolution or slyly sneaking their own speculative aspects into it were Creationists masquerading as "ID proponents," and the only people accepting evolution were atheist materialists. But the world of ideas is not that simple either.
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Old 13th September 2017, 10:54 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
*sigh* The simple version is that you chose to make blatantly false statements. I pointed out that they were false and why they were false. If you didn't actually mean them as you formulated them, just try to do better in the future.
The fact is that I asked you to expand on what you said because I wasn't clear as to the point you were trying to make. That was entirely neutral. You came back with a clarification.

Now, if those two posts were the sum total of your argument, and yet misled me and other posters, then I contend that the problem isn't ours, but in your clarity of thought and writing. Before you lace into everyone who has mistaken whatever it is you are trying to say, perhaps your time would be better employed seeing if you can put together a clear and cohesive argument.
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Old 13th September 2017, 11:02 AM   #58
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One of my cousins tried the "missing link" argument on me and I told him we will never have an unbroken chain of fossils for anything. He told me every fossil found makes two more gaps in the record. He also tried "the human body is perfect" argument. He thinks that every organ and every system in the body works just the way God wants it to and if something goes wrong it's our fault or God planned it that way.
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:12 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by korenyx View Post
One of my cousins tried the "missing link" argument on me and I told him we will never have an unbroken chain of fossils for anything. He told me every fossil found makes two more gaps in the record. He also tried "the human body is perfect" argument. He thinks that every organ and every system in the body works just the way God wants it to and if something goes wrong it's our fault or God planned it that way.

The human body is perfect argument is a somewhat flawed argument. I suppose you have pointed out to your cousin some of the flaws in our bodies?

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/04/t...he-human-body/

Having a common canal for food and respiration is a flaw I am acutely aware of. I was intubated for a month many years back and suffer a bit of damage in that area, so often get something down my trachea. Dolphins have evolved beyond this flaw.
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:45 PM   #60
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Of course if you scratch a proponent of intelligent design you will find a creationist, and if the creationist is a believer in the Abrahamic God, he/she will believe in the Noah's floating zoo idea.

To believe in the Noah thing is nothing short of remarkable for many reasons, but the one that comes to mind in the light of this discussion, is the extraordinary and rapid evolution that had to take place post the flood, for our diverse array of life today to come to exist. Noah only had space for different "kinds" of critters.

Now one of the creationists favourite arguments is to point to the absence of so called "missing links" between different animals as mentioned by korenyx above. Now if the extraordinarily rapid evolution took place after the flood there should be an abundant number of remains of transitional animals for us to study.
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:45 PM   #61
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The eye is an great example. Not only is the mammalian eye horribly designed (as the article Thor 2 linked too points out all the, for lack of a better term "wiring" for the eye is run along the actual surface of the eye which leads to a really large blindspot in both eyes where the hole where all the wiring leaves the eye goes through to the point that a lot of visual information is filled in in what amounts to post-processing.) but... other types of eyes evolved that don't have that. Squid eyes evolved differently not having that weird wiring problem and having a completely different (and arguably superior) mechanical method of focusing.
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Old 13th September 2017, 03:12 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
The eye is an great example. Not only is the mammalian eye horribly designed (as the article Thor 2 linked too points out all the, for lack of a better term "wiring" for the eye is run along the actual surface of the eye which leads to a really large blindspot in both eyes where the hole where all the wiring leaves the eye goes through to the point that a lot of visual information is filled in in what amounts to post-processing.) but... other types of eyes evolved that don't have that. Squid eyes evolved differently not having that weird wiring problem and having a completely different (and arguably superior) mechanical method of focusing.

As I read eyes have evolved many times in different forms (so much for the irreducible complexity argument).

I wonder if the blind spot in our eyes has moved, and is moving, further around the side to reduce the effect of this defect, or if the remarkable ability of our brains to make sense of the flawed image, negates the need for this evolution.
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Old 13th September 2017, 03:30 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
The eye is an great example. Not only is the mammalian eye horribly designed (as the article Thor 2 linked too points out all the, for lack of a better term "wiring" for the eye is run along the actual surface of the eye which leads to a really large blindspot in both eyes where the hole where all the wiring leaves the eye goes through to the point that a lot of visual information is filled in in what amounts to post-processing.) but... other types of eyes evolved that don't have that.
Who would design a land-dwelling animal have eyes that have to be kept moist? If evolved from a sea creature, it makes a lot more sense.
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Old 13th September 2017, 03:51 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I wonder if God used a nice modern CAD system, pencil and paper, or just did it all in her head?
Whatever it used, this god entity is dumb as ****. Take, for instance, having invented lignin without inventing something to digest it. Trees started to go up and up to escape predators and when they fell down no-one could digest their trunks which piled up ceaselessly, depleting the atmosphere of free oxygen and monopolizing most carbon in the biosphere. Tens of millions years after, with life reduced to a minimum, this doofus of a designer deity remembered to add the missing piece, but gigantic coal and oil reservoirs have started to form.

I know that the moronic wanker is supposed to work in mysterious ways, but, what the ef!

[No real god has been harmed or disrespected during the writing of this post]
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:26 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
Whatever it used, this god entity is dumb as ****. Take, for instance, having invented lignin without inventing something to digest it. Trees started to go up and up to escape predators and when they fell down no-one could digest their trunks which piled up ceaselessly, depleting the atmosphere of free oxygen and monopolizing most carbon in the biosphere. Tens of millions years after, with life reduced to a minimum, this doofus of a designer deity remembered to add the missing piece, but gigantic coal and oil reservoirs have started to form.

I know that the moronic wanker is supposed to work in mysterious ways, but, what the ef!

[No real god has been harmed or disrespected during the writing of this post]



I have read creationists ideas that the coal deposits are as a result of the flood (you know the Noah thing), but given that the Chinese have been using coal for at least 6000 years the credibility is in question.
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:52 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Of course Intelligent Design exists...as a concept.

But that's only trivially true - all sorts of absurd and falsified claims exist as concepts.

I have Behe's "Darwin's Black Box" in my library. To a layman, it seemed to make a cogent case for irreducible complexity. But after reading it, I easily found point-by-point refutations to each example given in the book online. And even if no refutation to a particular case could be imagined, that's basically an Argument From Ignorance, and not proof of anything beyond a lack of imagination.

Any of Dawkins' books could help disabuse one of the whole "Intelligent Design" thing. "Climbing Mount Improbable" is probably the most targeted in this regard.

As an aside, I came across Behe's book in the "Evolution" section of a bookstore once. Seemed out of place, but an easy mistake for an employee to make.

Then again, it's where I have my copy sitting!
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:45 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post



I have read creationists ideas that the coal deposits are as a result of the flood (you know the Noah thing), but given that the Chinese have been using coal for at least 6000 years the credibility is in question.
They are people who gather in tents, pray for healing and say lots of alleluias, so it's safe to say you wouldn't get enough to make a single ravioli by gathering all their god-given brains into a bowl

Their pet god, barely above the level of sea monkeys or chia pets, follows their whims and has the epistemological reach of a four year-old asking "why?" so this trained monkey of a deity plays whatever role these rotten morons want it to play, from Gozilla-like in the rapture or chilblain healer to designer of groups of life by using its magical etch-a-sketch. The earth have never seen falser people that these pious wrecks when matters of religion are considered. I hope whatever god might be can forgive them.
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Old 13th September 2017, 11:06 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
.......I suppose you have pointed out to your cousin some of the flaws in our bodies?.......
The recurrent layngeal nerve is my favourite. It is a nerve connecting the brain to the larynx. As it evolved in fishes where it led directly to the gills, it has found itself on the wrong side of the hear, so to speak, and so does a circuitous journey under the aortic arch and back up to the larynx. That's silly enough in humans, where it is about, oh, say 2 foot long to connect things which are only 5 or 6 inches apart, but in giraffes, it is four and a half metres (15 feet) long yet its sole function is to connect two things only 6 or 9 inches apart. Whoever "designed" that needs flogging.

My other favourite is the prostate. Who in their right mind would wrap such a gland around the urethra?
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:21 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
The fact is that I asked you to expand on what you said because I wasn't clear as to the point you were trying to make. That was entirely neutral. You came back with a clarification.

Now, if those two posts were the sum total of your argument, and yet misled me and other posters, then I contend that the problem isn't ours, but in your clarity of thought and writing. Before you lace into everyone who has mistaken whatever it is you are trying to say, perhaps your time would be better employed seeing if you can put together a clear and cohesive argument.
First, were you intending to quote post 53 or 55? You seem to be responding to 53, but quoted 55. Thus, I'll treat you as having intended to quote 53. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and explain how it's intended to address 55, though, if that actually was your intent.

To respond to your claim, though, I'll also point at Delvo in post 27, who kindly clarified the obvious about what I said, as well. That you ignored the context provided by both what I had quoted JoeBentley saying and by the contents within the post to seize upon a phrase that could only be taken that way if it was completely ripped out of the context is not, in fact, my failing, however much you might wish to avoid responsibility. Regardless, if things have been clarified by now, we may as well move on and consign the misunderstanding to the past, with the hope that such misunderstandings can be better avoided in the future.
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:43 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
much like the firing of neurons in our brains or the operation of logic gates in a computer. And like brains and computers, the biosphere contains large numbers of these elements interacting simultaneously.
Really liked the post except I'm not sure about the hilited bit. A brain or maybe a neural network is not mathematically functional in the same way a set of logic gates are I think. At least I remember reading that the state of and result that a neural network creates based on its inputs is not entirely predictable?

Just a small derail. But interesting point in your post.
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:49 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
To believe in the Noah thing is nothing short of remarkable for many reasons, but the one that comes to mind in the light of this discussion, is the extraordinary and rapid evolution that had to take place post the flood, for our diverse array of life today to come to exist. Noah only had space for different "kinds" of critters.
Baraminology comes to mind as being relevant to this. It totally confirmed that "Biblical kinds" was a viable concept... by referring back to the infallibility of the Bible when even they admitted that the actual evidence refuted the viability of the idea quite firmly. It was actually somewhat hilarious in a really sad way.

Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Now one of the creationists favourite arguments is to point to the absence of so called "missing links" between different animals as mentioned by korenyx above. Now if the extraordinarily rapid evolution took place after the flood there should be an abundant number of remains of transitional animals for us to study.
Crocoducks, ftw! AKA, it was also funny how they demanded something that would actually serve far better as evidence for creationism to "prove" evolution.

Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
As I read eyes have evolved many times in different forms (so much for the irreducible complexity argument).

I wonder if the blind spot in our eyes has moved, and is moving, further around the side to reduce the effect of this defect, or if the remarkable ability of our brains to make sense of the flawed image, negates the need for this evolution.
The latter, more likely. The "post-processing" being in place pretty much already counts as a fix that would likely almost eliminate any immediate evolutionary pressure. As long as it's functioning reasonably well, it's unlikely that better eyes would rank highly in characteristics that make it more likely to create offspring, especially given the way that breeding selections are made at present and that we have plenty of ways to effectively negate many of the problems with human vision that might otherwise be selected against.
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:50 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
The fact is that I asked you to expand on what you said because I wasn't clear as to the point you were trying to make. That was entirely neutral. You came back with a clarification.

Now, if those two posts were the sum total of your argument, and yet misled me and other posters, then I contend that the problem isn't ours, but in your clarity of thought and writing. Before you lace into everyone who has mistaken whatever it is you are trying to say, perhaps your time would be better employed seeing if you can put together a clear and cohesive argument.
I was confused by the point of the post too. Had to read other peoples replies to get the meaning, then got more confused. Just my 2 cents if it helps any
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:55 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
I was confused by the point of the post too. Had to read other peoples replies to get the meaning, then got more confused. Just my 2 cents if it helps any
Has it been clarified enough, yet, to remove your confusion in the end?


ETA: It really is as simple as... 1) JoeBentley made a false claim, which I quoted and 2) refuted, (why cede the high ground both intellectually and rationally, after all, especially when dealing with that which can be easily dealt with without needing to do so?) then I moved on and 3) responded to the OP. Others later ignored the quoted claim and decided to rip a phrase out of context from the refutation that mirrored that from JoeBentley's claim to come up with something of a nonsensical position to question me about.
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Old 14th September 2017, 01:00 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
They are people who gather in tents, pray for healing and say lots of alleluias, so it's safe to say you wouldn't get enough to make a single ravioli by gathering all their god-given brains into a bowl

Their pet god, barely above the level of sea monkeys or chia pets, follows their whims and has the epistemological reach of a four year-old asking "why?" so this trained monkey of a deity plays whatever role these rotten morons want it to play, from Gozilla-like in the rapture or chilblain healer to designer of groups of life by using its magical etch-a-sketch. The earth have never seen falser people that these pious wrecks when matters of religion are considered. I hope whatever god might be can forgive them.
Just curious, and by no means wanting to start a flame (it is a honest question), do you think the guy in your Avatar (forget his name) was an idiot, or maybe a visionary who got unlucky. I watched the film and can't help feeling of all the places to go and be alone in the wilderness, the Arctic was not such a good idea.
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Old 14th September 2017, 01:03 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Has it been clarified enough, yet, to remove your confusion in the end?


ETA: It really is as simple as... 1) false claim was made before, then quoted in the post, 2) false part of the quoted claim was refuted, 3) OP was responded to. Others later ignored the quoted claim and decided to rip a phrase out of context from the refutation that mirrored that from JoeBentley's claim to come up with something of a nonsensical position to question me about.
yes! lol. Lot of fuss and nonsense about nothing really.
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Old 14th September 2017, 01:51 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
Just curious, and by no means wanting to start a flame (it is a honest question), do you think the guy in your Avatar (forget his name) was an idiot, or maybe a visionary who got unlucky. I watched the film and can't help feeling of all the places to go and be alone in the wilderness, the Arctic was not such a good idea.
What!?

He reminds me of the perils of finding all the right answers to the most absolutely wrong questions. In that department, the kid's the patron saint.

About what he was and why he did it, he's just a latent homosexual looking for identifying with a suppose alpha male hidden in the primitive layers of his self. He looked for the adequate settings to provoke that ... but the real dampened he took control. A modern Greek tragedy depicted with a romantic aura and a legend inspired in who just was a narcissistic bululú in real life.
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Old 14th September 2017, 02:16 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
yes! lol. Lot of fuss and nonsense about nothing really.
No, it was a seeking of clarity, nothing more. There was never an attempt at ripping a position apart, just a seeking of understanding of the poster's point. Not every questioning of someone's post is an attempt to pull the argument down, although some posters do behave as though it is. I still, even now, don't understand why the (trivial) point was made in the way it was.
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Old 14th September 2017, 02:20 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
What!?

He reminds me of the perils of finding all the right answers to the most absolutely wrong questions. In that department, the kid's the patron saint.

About what he was and why he did it, he's just a latent homosexual looking for identifying with a suppose alpha male hidden in the primitive layers of his self. He looked for the adequate settings to provoke that ... but the real dampened he took control. A modern Greek tragedy depicted with a romantic aura and a legend inspired in who just was a narcissistic bululú in real life.
I think I'm afraid I asked. I did think he was a bit of a spoiled dick from the film though.
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Old 14th September 2017, 06:21 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
I think I'm afraid I asked. I did think he was a bit of a spoiled dick from the film though.
The archetypical tragic figure of the latter part of the twentieth century. A sad story. Incidentally, that photograph with such an arrogant look was taken less than 15 days before his demise. A locomotive speeding towards the cliff.
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Old 14th September 2017, 06:54 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
The archetypical tragic figure of the latter part of the twentieth century. A sad story. Incidentally, that photograph with such an arrogant look was taken less than 15 days before his demise. A locomotive speeding towards the cliff.
For those of us who find this curiously fascinating but can't identify the photograph, whom are we talking about?

Dave
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