ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Trials and Errors
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

Closed Thread
Old 12th September 2017, 02:38 PM   #1561
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maaselkä Mielessäni
Posts: 11,175
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That's not a name of an expert. And if you paid attention that during the Nencini trial, about the only one who really testified was the lab expert from Rome who declared that Stefanoni's work would not be acceptable due to the fact there were NO repeated and confirming tests.

So VIXEN fails again to provide a citation.
Here's one from Nencini himself:

Quote:
two contributors to the trace, we feel that the only statistical approach that can be used adequately here is the RMNE (Random Man Not Excluded) method. This statistical approach makes it possible to estimate the possible error due to a chance compatibility, meaning that of a person chosen randomly from the population and who by pure chance is fully compatible with the genetic characteristics of the individual represented in the trace. The higher and nearer to 1 that probability is, the more likely it is that the profile could be the result of a random choice and thus the higher the probability of an error in the attribution of the genetic profile to a given individual. In this case, as seen in Table 5, the profile of Raffaele Sollecito is compatible at all the loci analyzed in the mixture of DNA found on Exhibit 165B.

The probability that a random individual from the population would also be compatible (the inclusion probability) [245] was calculated, and came out to be equal to 3.05592 x 10^-6, which is about 1 in 327 thousand. This computation is considered to be extremely conservative, since all of the allelic components are taken into consideration together with their frequency in the reference population.” (Pages 15-17 of the technical report submitted at the 6 September 2011 hearing before the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Perugia.)

Nencini also found that the second instance [Hellman] court undervalued the fact that the tests carried out took place during the preliminary investigation [of which the Defence was notified and had the right to attend], that at the time of those tests, there were no objections concerning the sampling and laboratory activity, nor was a pre‐trial hearing requested regarding the testing, all of which proves agreement with the [laboratory] procedures.

Fact is, in order to delude yourself Raff & Knox are innocent, you have to come up with a fantastic confabulation of the Head of Forensic police, Stefanoni somehow pulling a fast one in front of forensic experts such as Pascelli and Torres, neither of whom objected to her methods at the time, when they had the chance to.

Perhaps it needed some souped up egoist from Boise University to work some woo from a distance.

Quote:
Convinced by Hampikian's optimism, I did attend. And I'm so glad I did because he was right: the people involved in the Innocence Project are incredible. They embraced me as a little sister. They assured me I was safe, that nothing was expected of me, that everyone was just pleased to finally get to know me.

When will the hoax stop?
__________________
“Nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nousee ja sarastaa Suomen uusi huomenn.”

- Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:01 PM   #1562
bagels
Graduate Poster
 
bagels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,731
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post



When will the hoax stop?
October 3rd, 2011.
bagels is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:03 PM   #1563
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Fail. The question remains unanswered.

Quelle surprise.
The Rome Scientific Police all had stoned hippie parents. They also had sex while white water rafting. That exempts them.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:03 PM   #1564
TruthCalls
Muse
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here's one from Nencini himself:




Nencini also found that the second instance [Hellman] court undervalued the fact that the tests carried out took place during the preliminary investigation [of which the Defence was notified and had the right to attend], that at the time of those tests, there were no objections concerning the sampling and laboratory activity, nor was a pre‐trial hearing requested regarding the testing, all of which proves agreement with the [laboratory] procedures.

Fact is, in order to delude yourself Raff & Knox are innocent, you have to come up with a fantastic confabulation of the Head of Forensic police, Stefanoni somehow pulling a fast one in front of forensic experts such as Pascelli and Torres, neither of whom objected to her methods at the time, when they had the chance to.

Perhaps it needed some souped up egoist from Boise University to work some woo from a distance.




When will the hoax stop?
When it stops depends on you. Nencini isn't an expert, he's a judge.

Even the team from RIS confirmed that a minimum of two amplifications needed to be performed before the results could be considered reliable. Since none of the samples from the knife or the bra clasp were tested more than once then RIS is confirming those results are useless. And, of course, RIS made no observations about how the samples were collected or stored, but I'm fairly sure they'd have had serious issues with how the clasp was collects and then destroyed due to improper storage or how the knife was removed from it's collection bag in the police station and then placed in a non-sterile calendar box.

By now you should realize just how many experts around the world denounced the work by Stefanoni and her team... I mean, you've worked so hard trying to smear each of them. Meanwhile the PIP smear team went out of business before it started since there were no experts supporting Stefanoni to smear.

BTW, still waiting for a link to the YouTube video. I trust you have it as you had to have watched it in order to be so sure of your accusations against Hampikian, right?

Last edited by TruthCalls; 12th September 2017 at 03:05 PM.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:10 PM   #1565
Methos
Muse
 
Methos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 638
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
[...]
Nencini also found that the second instance [Hellman] court undervalued the fact that the tests carried out took place during the preliminary investigation [of which the Defence was notified and had the right to attend], that at the time of those tests, there were no objections concerning the sampling and laboratory activity, nor was a pre‐trial hearing requested regarding the testing, all of which proves agreement with the [laboratory] procedures.
And Nencini's verdict was anulled (i.e. per PQ of TJMK "Annulled means “wiped off the books”")... (just for the record...)

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Fact is, in order to delude yourself Raff & Knox are innocent, you have to come up with a fantastic confabulation of the Head of Forensic police, Stefanoni somehow pulling a fast one in front of forensic experts such as Pascelli and Torres, neither of whom objected to her methods at the time, when they had the chance to.
Nope, one only has to read the actual court records (Stefanoni is the "Head of Forensic Police" since when?), as you have been told to, again and again. Please try to get at least the names right, next time... (The one who was there for Sollecito's defense was Prof. Potenza, but who am I telling this?)

[...]

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
When will the hoax stop?
Not sure, maybe when the likes of you, NvdL, LW, PQ, NA and whoever is left stop lying...?
__________________
"Found a typo? You can keep it..."
Methos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:11 PM   #1566
TruthCalls
Muse
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here's one from Nencini himself:




Nencini also found that the second instance [Hellman] court undervalued the fact that the tests carried out took place during the preliminary investigation [of which the Defence was notified and had the right to attend], that at the time of those tests, there were no objections concerning the sampling and laboratory activity, nor was a pre‐trial hearing requested regarding the testing, all of which proves agreement with the [laboratory] procedures.

Fact is, in order to delude yourself Raff & Knox are innocent, you have to come up with a fantastic confabulation of the Head of Forensic police, Stefanoni somehow pulling a fast one in front of forensic experts such as Pascelli and Torres, neither of whom objected to her methods at the time, when they had the chance to.

Perhaps it needed some souped up egoist from Boise University to work some woo from a distance.




When will the hoax stop?
BTW, I also wanted to point out the quote from Nencini you referenced was talking about probabilities of unique matching of profiles. This was never questioned. The reason why multiple amplification cycles need to be run is to ensure the results are repeatable and that there is no contamination. A single test does not produce reliable results so the issue of probability is moot.

So you got a non-expert talking about the wrong thing... oops.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:16 PM   #1567
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here's one from Nencini himself:
It's brave of you to quote Nencini on the DNA evidence. He's the one who found Raffaele's DNA on the knife!

Just so you know, there was no Raffaele DNA on the knife. But why let that concern you. The goal was to convict the pair.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:17 PM   #1568
Methos
Muse
 
Methos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 638
Originally Posted by bagels View Post
October 3rd, 2011.
__________________
"Found a typo? You can keep it..."
Methos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:47 PM   #1569
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maaselkä Mielessäni
Posts: 11,175
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
When it stops depends on you. Nencini isn't an expert, he's a judge.

Even the team from RIS confirmed that a minimum of two amplifications needed to be performed before the results could be considered reliable. Since none of the samples from the knife or the bra clasp were tested more than once then RIS is confirming those results are useless. And, of course, RIS made no observations about how the samples were collected or stored, but I'm fairly sure they'd have had serious issues with how the clasp was collects and then destroyed due to improper storage or how the knife was removed from it's collection bag in the police station and then placed in a non-sterile calendar box.

By now you should realize just how many experts around the world denounced the work by Stefanoni and her team... I mean, you've worked so hard trying to smear each of them. Meanwhile the PIP smear team went out of business before it started since there were no experts supporting Stefanoni to smear.

BTW, still waiting for a link to the YouTube video. I trust you have it as you had to have watched it in order to be so sure of your accusations against Hampikian, right?

Think about it. Hampikian is bragging he freed Knox. Presumably he is hinting strongly that he wrote Conti & Vecchiotti's report for them, hence the references to Wisconsin Highway Patrol manual and all the bull butter about minimum samples sizes.

BUT WAIT!

Conti & Vecchiotti were supposed to be INDEPENDENT court experts.

WTF were they doing getting into bed with Amanda Knox fanboy Hampikian, with his coca cola cans and plastic knives.

What a complete and utter creep.
__________________
“Nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nousee ja sarastaa Suomen uusi huomenn.”

- Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:49 PM   #1570
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maaselkä Mielessäni
Posts: 11,175
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
The Rome Scientific Police all had stoned hippie parents. They also had sex while white water rafting. That exempts them.
Now you are being very silly. They were likely Roman Catholics with Italian mamas who made then eat uppa their macaroni.
__________________
“Nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nousee ja sarastaa Suomen uusi huomenn.”

- Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 04:35 PM   #1571
TruthCalls
Muse
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Think about it. Hampikian is bragging he freed Knox. Presumably he is hinting strongly that he wrote Conti & Vecchiotti's report for them, hence the references to Wisconsin Highway Patrol manual and all the bull butter about minimum samples sizes.

BUT WAIT!

Conti & Vecchiotti were supposed to be INDEPENDENT court experts.

WTF were they doing getting into bed with Amanda Knox fanboy Hampikian, with his coca cola cans and plastic knives.

What a complete and utter creep.
Probably a complete and utter waste of time asking for this but... please provide a cite for this 'presumption'.

This is your problem Vixen... you require absolutely no standard of proof for anything you WANT to be true. In fact, you take snippets of unproven, unrelated things and you morph them into bigger, unproven, mostly unrelated things and then you build upon that. You're writing a complete bio on Hampikian and you haven't shown that you have a single fact. But wow, when there's someone you agree with, such as Stefanoni, you'll go to extreme lengths to defend them even when faced with definitive proof of incompetent, unprofessional performance.

I'll use your words... THINK about it. Why would so many experts around the world all agree the SP did an awful job with this case if it weren't true. Rather than denigrate all of them, rather than conjure up fictional scenarios like Marriott pulling the puppet strings, maybe you ought to try accepting the fact that they all know what they're talking about and Stefanoni screwed the pooch.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 05:02 PM   #1572
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,624
Quote:
Here's one from Nencini himself:

Quote:
two contributors to the trace, we feel that the only statistical approach that can be used adequately here is the RMNE (Random Man Not Excluded) method. This statistical approach makes it possible to estimate the possible error due to a chance compatibility, meaning that of a person chosen randomly from the population and who by pure chance is fully compatible with the genetic characteristics of the individual represented in the trace. The higher and nearer to 1 that probability is, the more likely it is that the profile could be the result of a random choice and thus the higher the probability of an error in the attribution of the genetic profile to a given individual. In this case, as seen in Table 5, the profile of Raffaele Sollecito is compatible at all the loci analyzed in the mixture of DNA found on Exhibit 165B.

The probability that a random individual from the population would also be compatible (the inclusion probability) [245] was calculated, and came out to be equal to 3.05592 x 10^-6, which is about 1 in 327 thousand. This computation is considered to be extremely conservative, since all of the allelic components are taken into consideration together with their frequency in the reference population.” (Pages 15-17 of the technical report submitted at the 6 September 2011 hearing before the Court of Assizes of Appeal of Perugia.)
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
When it stops depends on you. Nencini isn't an expert, he's a judge.

Even the team from RIS confirmed that a minimum of two amplifications needed to be performed before the results could be considered reliable. Since none of the samples from the knife or the bra clasp were tested more than once then RIS is confirming those results are useless. And, of course, RIS made no observations about how the samples were collected or stored, but I'm fairly sure they'd have had serious issues with how the clasp was collects and then destroyed due to improper storage or how the knife was removed from it's collection bag in the police station and then placed in a non-sterile calendar box.

By now you should realize just how many experts around the world denounced the work by Stefanoni and her team... I mean, you've worked so hard trying to smear each of them. Meanwhile the PIP smear team went out of business before it started since there were no experts supporting Stefanoni to smear.

BTW, still waiting for a link to the YouTube video. I trust you have it as you had to have watched it in order to be so sure of your accusations against Hampikian, right?
Vixen is consistent. She conveniently IGNORES the facts like that RIS would never accept a single test. Or that Nencini's judgement is nullified. Yet at the same time she claims that Hellman was nullified.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 05:12 PM   #1573
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maaselkä Mielessäni
Posts: 11,175
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Probably a complete and utter waste of time asking for this but... please provide a cite for this 'presumption'.

This is your problem Vixen... you require absolutely no standard of proof for anything you WANT to be true. In fact, you take snippets of unproven, unrelated things and you morph them into bigger, unproven, mostly unrelated things and then you build upon that. You're writing a complete bio on Hampikian and you haven't shown that you have a single fact. But wow, when there's someone you agree with, such as Stefanoni, you'll go to extreme lengths to defend them even when faced with definitive proof of incompetent, unprofessional performance.

I'll use your words... THINK about it. Why would so many experts around the world all agree the SP did an awful job with this case if it weren't true. Rather than denigrate all of them, rather than conjure up fictional scenarios like Marriott pulling the puppet strings, maybe you ought to try accepting the fact that they all know what they're talking about and Stefanoni screwed the pooch.

Have a read of this page and ask yourself, why does Andrea Vogt call it 'the secret USA defence'?

A trial is about disclosure. If Conti & Vecchiotti were being fed by Hampikian, who himself was being funded by state Uni Boise, then why the need for secrecy?

Because the whole thing was sordid, underhand, rotten and corrupt.

Quote:
After her sensational acquittal October 3, 2011, Knox flew home the next day. The acquittal ruling, however, was later annulled in a scathing 2013 Court of Cassation decision that raised questions about the trial’s validity. Italy’s highest court ordered a new appeal trial, which is ongoing now in Florence. Immediately after Knox’s arrival back on U.S. soil, Boise State University biology professor Greg Hampikian went on the public speaking circuit saying he knew what happened, touting his role in “freeing” her. To get the whole story, I filed a public records request to gain access to his full research and communications on the matter.
Good corporate governance entails transparency. If Greg is being given grants then stakeholders are entitled to know what it is spent on.

Since when was a state university a commercial enterprise with 'trade secrets'. The whole point of academia is sharing and disseminating information and knowledge, not hiding it.

So here we have a picture of a vain egotistical character who believed he could use his PhD to 'swing' the case.

Time and again we see individuals who believe they can bypass proper channels in their vainglorious self importance. They are corrupt and lack integrity.

When we consider someone like Leslie Van Houten got Life without Parole for a similar crime (she held her victim, Rosemary LaBianca down, whilst urging another perp to stab her, with poor Rosemary unable to fight back), it is deeply shocking to realise the levels of corruption certain parties in the Kercher case sunk to, to deny Meredith's family any justice.
__________________
“Nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nousee ja sarastaa Suomen uusi huomenn.”

- Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 05:13 PM   #1574
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Vixen is consistent. She conveniently IGNORES the facts like that RIS would never accept a single test. Or that Nencini's judgement is nullified. Yet at the same time she claims that Hellman was nullified.
The best part is that I can spell Hampikian's name from memory now! It took longer with Chiacchiara, but I still get Marasca and Maresca confused now and then.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 05:25 PM   #1575
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maaselkä Mielessäni
Posts: 11,175
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
The best part is that I can spell Hampikian's name from memory now! It took longer with Chiacchiara, but I still get Marasca and Maresca confused now and then.
It's easy enough. Just as Greek and Cypriot last names often end in 'poulus', Polish names in '-ski' or 'vich', Russian in 'kov' or 'chev', Israeli in '-tov', Swedish in '-sson', etc, so an Armenian name will end in 'ian'.

Just remember to add that final 'i'.

Italian names are a nightmare with all their double consonants suddenly becoming single.
__________________
“Nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nousee ja sarastaa Suomen uusi huomenn.”

- Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim

Last edited by Vixen; 12th September 2017 at 05:27 PM.
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 05:37 PM   #1576
bagels
Graduate Poster
 
bagels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,731
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Have a read of this page

Quote:
After her sensational acquittal October 3, 2011, Knox flew home the next day.
I wouldn't call a girl held in a dungeon on no evidence being released sensational, unless this is the dark ages.
Quote:
The acquittal ruling, however, was later annulled in a scathing 2013 Court of Cassation decision that raised questions about the trial’s validity.
Ah yes, a scathing report where important questions were raised, such as how could Quintavalle be an unreliable witness if he recognized Amanda from her blue eyes in court? How could Rudy the burglar have broken into the cottage without Meredith hearing him? Such erudition, I can't believe Hellmann dared to so blatantly subvert the rule of law.

Quote:
and ask yourself, why does Andrea Vogt call it 'the secret USA defence'?
Because she's a *********** idiot.
bagels is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 06:33 PM   #1577
Stacyhs
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,512
Ah, yes. I go away on vacation for few days, log in again, and see the same old tactics being trotted out by Vixen yet again. More nasty innuendo and unsubstantiated accusations against an expert who dared to support AK's and RS's innocence. A nasty, dirty old man who was willing to trade his professional reputation and career, not to mention his marriage, for a "chance" to snuggle up to "acquiescent" Knox is just the beginning! Testifying, when asked in court, that he worked on the Knox case is morphed into lying, being dishonest and claiming to have helped "free" Knox! Yep. Same-o, same-o crapola. I'd be willing to pay for it if a real psychologist would spend a few hours reading this forum and give us a professional opinion on the mind that comes up with this stuff. I really would.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 06:39 PM   #1578
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ah, yes. I go away on vacation for few days, log in again, and see the same old tactics being trotted out by Vixen yet again. More nasty innuendo and unsubstantiated accusations against an expert who dared to support AK's and RS's innocence.
You get vacations? I stopped posting for a week once and Marriott revoked my bus pass. Weasel.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 06:53 PM   #1579
Stacyhs
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,512
I went white water rafting with Greg Hampikian.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 12th September 2017 at 07:01 PM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 07:05 PM   #1580
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I went white water rafting with Greg Hampikian.
I bet your parents then became stoned hippies.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 01:28 AM   #1581
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maaselkä Mielessäni
Posts: 11,175
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ah, yes. I go away on vacation for few days, log in again, and see the same old tactics being trotted out by Vixen yet again. More nasty innuendo and unsubstantiated accusations against an expert who dared to support AK's and RS's innocence. A nasty, dirty old man who was willing to trade his professional reputation and career, not to mention his marriage, for a "chance" to snuggle up to "acquiescent" Knox is just the beginning! Testifying, when asked in court, that he worked on the Knox case is morphed into lying, being dishonest and claiming to have helped "free" Knox! Yep. Same-o, same-o crapola. I'd be willing to pay for it if a real psychologist would spend a few hours reading this forum and give us a professional opinion on the mind that comes up with this stuff. I really would.
Seriously, what kind of a diseased mind wants to help murderers 'get away with it'?
__________________
“Nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nousee ja sarastaa Suomen uusi huomenn.”

- Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 01:38 AM   #1582
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maaselkä Mielessäni
Posts: 11,175
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
I bet your parents then became stoned hippies.
My father was a middle class snob - ex-RAF, public school and Sandhurst military academy for his sons, three times married. My mother's straitlaced bourgeoisie, very proper. My stepfather's ordinary and a Trump and Putin supporter, a compulsive cleaner and DIY fanatic, but otherwise cool. I can't imagine any of them as 'stoned hippies'. They would be utterly mortified.
__________________
“Nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nousee ja sarastaa Suomen uusi huomenn.”

- Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 06:42 AM   #1583
TruthCalls
Muse
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Seriously, what kind of a diseased mind wants to help murderers 'get away with it'?
That would be a very disturbed individual, however, why do I feel the need to remind you this thread is a discussion of Amanda and Raffaele, so I fail to see the relevance of your comment. Actually, I fail to see the relevance of your comment based on what Stacy wrote as well, but whatever.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 06:50 AM   #1584
TruthCalls
Muse
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ah, yes. I go away on vacation for few days, log in again, and see the same old tactics being trotted out by Vixen yet again. More nasty innuendo and unsubstantiated accusations against an expert who dared to support AK's and RS's innocence. A nasty, dirty old man who was willing to trade his professional reputation and career, not to mention his marriage, for a "chance" to snuggle up to "acquiescent" Knox is just the beginning! Testifying, when asked in court, that he worked on the Knox case is morphed into lying, being dishonest and claiming to have helped "free" Knox! Yep. Same-o, same-o crapola. I'd be willing to pay for it if a real psychologist would spend a few hours reading this forum and give us a professional opinion on the mind that comes up with this stuff. I really would.
Vixen is like an online petri dish, giving us bold new insight into the inner workings of a PGP mind. She's drafted a complete attack bio on Hampikian based on comments from compulsive liar/guilter corpus vile, Andrea Vogt, a powerpoint presentation she's never seen (or can prove exists) and a YouTube video she's never seen (or can prove exists). The narrative she's created is so bizarre not even Hollywood would buy it. The case is over but the few remaining PGP really are a fascinating study.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 07:08 AM   #1585
TruthCalls
Muse
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Have a read of this page and ask yourself, why does Andrea Vogt call it 'the secret USA defence'?

A trial is about disclosure. If Conti & Vecchiotti were being fed by Hampikian, who himself was being funded by state Uni Boise, then why the need for secrecy?

Because the whole thing was sordid, underhand, rotten and corrupt.



Good corporate governance entails transparency. If Greg is being given grants then stakeholders are entitled to know what it is spent on.

Since when was a state university a commercial enterprise with 'trade secrets'. The whole point of academia is sharing and disseminating information and knowledge, not hiding it.

So here we have a picture of a vain egotistical character who believed he could use his PhD to 'swing' the case.

Time and again we see individuals who believe they can bypass proper channels in their vainglorious self importance. They are corrupt and lack integrity.

When we consider someone like Leslie Van Houten got Life without Parole for a similar crime (she held her victim, Rosemary LaBianca down, whilst urging another perp to stab her, with poor Rosemary unable to fight back), it is deeply shocking to realise the levels of corruption certain parties in the Kercher case sunk to, to deny Meredith's family any justice.
Why not just cut to the chase... what was incorrect in Hampikian's assessment of the DNA evidence? At the end of the day you are trying to prove innocence or guilt of someone and everyone should be committed to getting it right. Now, if you can point out where Hampikian or Gil or Conti or Vecchiotti got something wrong, then that's something that should be brought front and center and discussed. But you can't seem to find anything wrong with their conclusions, so you attack the individuals. Vogt's article is over three years old - it's an old, irrelevant story. Why are you regurgitating this article now? Has your desperation reached new levels?

You're interpretation is seriously flawed. The defense turned to world renowned experts for consultation on the evidence and these unbiased, independent experts confirmed the unreliability of the DNA. They helped ensure two innocent people didn't sit rotting in jail because of a botched investigation. If you seriously were concerned about justice for Meredith and her family you should have been arguing against the reductions in the sentence of the killer of Meredith, Rudy Guede. But then, this has never been about justice for Meredith... with you, it's about attacking Amanda. Period.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 07:32 AM   #1586
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,624
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Ah, yes. I go away on vacation for few days, log in again, and see the same old tactics being trotted out by Vixen yet again. More nasty innuendo and unsubstantiated accusations against an expert who dared to support AK's and RS's innocence. A nasty, dirty old man who was willing to trade his professional reputation and career, not to mention his marriage, for a "chance" to snuggle up to "acquiescent" Knox is just the beginning! Testifying, when asked in court, that he worked on the Knox case is morphed into lying, being dishonest and claiming to have helped "free" Knox! Yep. Same-o, same-o crapola. I'd be willing to pay for it if a real psychologist would spend a few hours reading this forum and give us a professional opinion on the mind that comes up with this stuff. I really would.
What I really love about this meme is they make Amanda a temptress able to get men to do anything for her and then in their next breath say Amanda isn't very pretty.

Koo Koo for Cocoa Puffs.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 07:56 AM   #1587
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
But you can't seem to find anything wrong with their conclusions, so you attack the individuals. Vogt's article is over three years old - it's an old, irrelevant story. Why are you regurgitating this article now? Has your desperation reached new levels?
Consider Vogt's record in covering this case.

She was more than likely the source of Peggy Ganong's often same-day tidbits from the Massei courtroom in 2009, which appeared in PMF and was discussed endlessly. Of course it was the Mingini-case they were covering, which is why (IMO) guilters have been stuck on Mignini's case ever since.

From Italy, Vogt had written an article about what is was like to be a supporter of guilt in Seattle - about the Jacksons, effectively outing them. But that pretty much confirmed that she was linked to the PMF webpage like a dirty shirt.

Vogt was one of the architects of the "Foxy Knoxy" myth. Vogt wrote the "I was there" article for a Seattle newspaper, one that falsely claimed that Knox had confessed to her mother (via secret prison recording) that she'd actually been at the cottage, when she was telling her mother she'd been at Raffaele's.

She tried to investigate Greg Hampikian, for the sole reason that he and the Idaho Innocence project took Knox's and Sollecito's side once they saw the state of the DNA evidence.

Along with Barbie Nadeau, once other news services (like the NYT and Rolling Stone) assigned their own writers to the case, and found something completely different from what Nadeau and Vogt had been pushing - Nadeau and Vogt found themselves on the outs with the US media, and complained that the US Media was becoming biased. This despite the obvious bias that both of them had been pushing virtually unopposed.

In the end, Vogt caved like a tent in Hurricane Irma. When Cassazione acquitted the pair in 2015, Vogt quoted Francesco Maresca (the Kercher's lawyer) that the case was now definitively over, and she switched her own conclusion to, "we will never know what happened." She also started outing guilters.

So it is surprising that a guilter would quote her. It invites this sort of summary - and I for one hope Vixen keeps on bring up An-DRE-a because it is such a hoot recounting her participation in it....

..... and remembering Nadeau, because Andrea did not monetize this case the way Nadeau had.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.

Last edited by Bill Williams; 13th September 2017 at 07:59 AM.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 08:15 AM   #1588
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,624
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Consider Vogt's record in covering this case.

She was more than likely the source of Peggy Ganong's often same-day tidbits from the Massei courtroom in 2009, which appeared in PMF and was discussed endlessly. Of course it was the Mingini-case they were covering, which is why (IMO) guilters have been stuck on Mignini's case ever since.

From Italy, Vogt had written an article about what is was like to be a supporter of guilt in Seattle - about the Jacksons, effectively outing them. But that pretty much confirmed that she was linked to the PMF webpage like a dirty shirt.

Vogt was one of the architects of the "Foxy Knoxy" myth. Vogt wrote the "I was there" article for a Seattle newspaper, one that falsely claimed that Knox had confessed to her mother (via secret prison recording) that she'd actually been at the cottage, when she was telling her mother she'd been at Raffaele's.

She tried to investigate Greg Hampikian, for the sole reason that he and the Idaho Innocence project took Knox's and Sollecito's side once they saw the state of the DNA evidence.

Along with Barbie Nadeau, once other news services (like the NYT and Rolling Stone) assigned their own writers to the case, and found something completely different from what Nadeau and Vogt had been pushing - Nadeau and Vogt found themselves on the outs with the US media, and complained that the US Media was becoming biased. This despite the obvious bias that both of them had been pushing virtually unopposed.

In the end, Vogt caved like a tent in Hurricane Irma. When Cassazione acquitted the pair in 2015, Vogt quoted Francesco Maresca (the Kercher's lawyer) that the case was now definitively over, and she switched her own conclusion to, "we will never know what happened." She also started outing guilters.

So it is surprising that a guilter would quote her. It invites this sort of summary - and I for one hope Vixen keeps on bring up An-DRE-a because it is such a hoot recounting her participation in it....

..... and remembering Nadeau, because Andrea did not monetize this case the way Nadeau had.
I always laugh when I hear the desperate 'we will never know what happened' position. Sure ......if you have your head up your ass.

This really was maybe the easiest crime in history short of one being videotaped to figure out. We may not know exactly how the murder happened but we do know who did it' about the time he did it and that it happened in the commission of a burglary. We also KNOW that Amanda and Raffaele weren't involved.

What the hell else do we really need to know?
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 08:52 AM   #1589
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I always laugh when I hear the desperate 'we will never know what happened' position. Sure ......if you have your head up your ass.

This really was maybe the easiest crime in history short of one being videotaped to figure out.
When you think of it, it's a huge move. Vogt was also the source of AK and RS being virtually named by Cassazione as the "other assailants" at the end of the Rudy process. IMO this is proof that Vogt haf been getting her info straight fro Mignini, because that's obviously the way he interpreted tbe end of the Rudy process.

Even as Mignini was being shoved aside as the AK/RS process ground on, what Vogt reported was often pure Mignini. They both had every reason to believe that the 2015 Cassazione would simply confirm tbeir views - even if the crime Nencini had described bore little resemblance to Mignini's original prosecution.

So in 2015, where's Vogt going to go other than, "we'll now never know"? Unlike the 2015 Cassazione which knew AK/RS had not been involved, Vogt could hang on to the declaration that the investigation had hopelessly been botched.

There she sits. And so she moves on thinking she's still relevant with the last judicial truth, the only one that matters.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 10:23 AM   #1590
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maaselkä Mielessäni
Posts: 11,175
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Consider Vogt's record in covering this case.

She was more than likely the source of Peggy Ganong's often same-day tidbits from the Massei courtroom in 2009, which appeared in PMF and was discussed endlessly. Of course it was the Mingini-case they were covering, which is why (IMO) guilters have been stuck on Mignini's case ever since.

From Italy, Vogt had written an article about what is was like to be a supporter of guilt in Seattle - about the Jacksons, effectively outing them. But that pretty much confirmed that she was linked to the PMF webpage like a dirty shirt.

Vogt was one of the architects of the "Foxy Knoxy" myth. Vogt wrote the "I was there" article for a Seattle newspaper, one that falsely claimed that Knox had confessed to her mother (via secret prison recording) that she'd actually been at the cottage, when she was telling her mother she'd been at Raffaele's.

She tried to investigate Greg Hampikian, for the sole reason that he and the Idaho Innocence project took Knox's and Sollecito's side once they saw the state of the DNA evidence.

Along with Barbie Nadeau, once other news services (like the NYT and Rolling Stone) assigned their own writers to the case, and found something completely different from what Nadeau and Vogt had been pushing - Nadeau and Vogt found themselves on the outs with the US media, and complained that the US Media was becoming biased. This despite the obvious bias that both of them had been pushing virtually unopposed.

In the end, Vogt caved like a tent in Hurricane Irma. When Cassazione acquitted the pair in 2015, Vogt quoted Francesco Maresca (the Kercher's lawyer) that the case was now definitively over, and she switched her own conclusion to, "we will never know what happened." She also started outing guilters.

So it is surprising that a guilter would quote her. It invites this sort of summary - and I for one hope Vixen keeps on bring up An-DRE-a because it is such a hoot recounting her participation in it....

..... and remembering Nadeau, because Andrea did not monetize this case the way Nadeau had.

Your revisionism of history would make a communist sect proud. A world in which you have the goodies (the proletariat/foakers) on one side and the baddies (the capitalist bastards/police/courts) on the other.





In fact, you are more 'Dave Spart' than Dave Spart.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg dave_spart_private_eye.jpg (22.7 KB, 1 views)
__________________
“Nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nousee ja sarastaa Suomen uusi huomenn.”

- Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 10:26 AM   #1591
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maaselkä Mielessäni
Posts: 11,175
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I always laugh when I hear the desperate 'we will never know what happened' position. Sure ......if you have your head up your ass.

This really was maybe the easiest crime in history short of one being videotaped to figure out. We may not know exactly how the murder happened but we do know who did it' about the time he did it and that it happened in the commission of a burglary. We also KNOW that Amanda and Raffaele weren't involved.

What the hell else do we really need to know?
I agree. <fx faint, lie down in a darkened room>

We know exactly what happened.

As Favi-Martuscelli, Marasca-Bruno, Nencini, Micheli, Massei all point out, Rudy, Mandy and Raffy did it.

No two ways about it.
__________________
“Nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nousee ja sarastaa Suomen uusi huomenn.”

- Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 10:30 AM   #1592
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Your revisionism of history would make a communist sect proud. A world in which you have the goodies (the proletariat/foakers) on one side and the baddies (the capitalist bastards/police/courts) on the other.
Yet another citationless claim. You yourself have access to Vogt's blog - you have quoted from it - when it suits you.

Go to her entry following the March 2015 acquittals. It's all there. She revised her position, and started outing-guilters. Maybe you approve of that. She is also the source of the "I was there" misinformation. She has never withdrawn that claim.

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/ho...t-andrea-vogt/
Quote:
For anyone knowledgeable, this “revelation” is no revelation at all. In fact, a graduate student with blog on Google had published State Department cables with the exact same information (and actually much more than Andrea Vogt provides) in June of 2010! You can visit his blog and see for yourself.

It seems in the last year Andrea Vogt can’t seem to buy a scoop. Earlier this year, Vogt wrote an article supposedly revealing that Amanda Knox was recorded saying “I was there” in reference to being at the murder scene. The truth, however, was that the statement taken in context unequivocally showed that she was not referring to the murder scene, but to her boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito’s apartment. Even the judges who presided over Knox’s case realized this. Andrea Vogt, who attended most of sessions in Amanda Knox’s trial, was either being blatantly dishonest or she was so incompetent that she didn’t even realize she was reporting old news.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.

Last edited by Bill Williams; 13th September 2017 at 10:32 AM.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 11:15 AM   #1593
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Maaselkä Mielessäni
Posts: 11,175
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Yet another citationless claim. You yourself have access to Vogt's blog - you have quoted from it - when it suits you.

Go to her entry following the March 2015 acquittals. It's all there. She revised her position, and started outing-guilters. Maybe you approve of that. She is also the source of the "I was there" misinformation. She has never withdrawn that claim.

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/ho...t-andrea-vogt/
Not sure why you are quoting fanboy Brucie. Has he fallen out of favour, as he didn't bother attending the local 'innocence' event and he's always telling you guys to forget Mandy and move onto other cases.

As for Knox' 'I cannot lie, I was there' comment, she was obviously talking about the cottage. There wouldn't be any need to lie if she was at Raff's. And in any case, he denies it. His last and definitive statement was that he has no idea where she was between 20:45 and 01:00 on the night of the murder.

IMV he is simply playing Prisoners Dilemma, or rather, the Nash Equilibrium. Trying to maximise his own interests by trying to convey an impression that she's more guilty than he is, when truth is, they both switched off their phones together.

And lied about it.

Thus, when Andrea was revealed this comment (taped by the police during visiting hours with her Mom, Edda) it was reported accurately.

The reason she freaked out over the petition filed, was because she was named as a witness and she didn't want her house overturned, as happened to Nadeau.
__________________
“Nyt, kun Karjalan kansa jälleen nousee ja sarastaa Suomen uusi huomenn.”

- Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 11:44 AM   #1594
Methos
Muse
 
Methos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 638
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
[...]
The reason she freaked out over the petition filed, was because she was named as a witness and she didn't want her house overturned, as happened to Nadeau.
Not going on a snipe hunt this time... Please just tell me what the above is supposed to be about?
__________________
"Found a typo? You can keep it..."
Methos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 11:54 AM   #1595
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,624
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
When you think of it, it's a huge move. Vogt was also the source of AK and RS being virtually named by Cassazione as the "other assailants" at the end of the Rudy process. IMO this is proof that Vogt haf been getting her info straight fro Mignini, because that's obviously the way he interpreted tbe end of the Rudy process.

Even as Mignini was being shoved aside as the AK/RS process ground on, what Vogt reported was often pure Mignini. They both had every reason to believe that the 2015 Cassazione would simply confirm tbeir views - even if the crime Nencini had described bore little resemblance to Mignini's original prosecution.

So in 2015, where's Vogt going to go other than, "we'll now never know"? Unlike the 2015 Cassazione which knew AK/RS had not been involved, Vogt could hang on to the declaration that the investigation had hopelessly been botched.

There she sits. And so she moves on thinking she's still relevant with the last judicial truth, the only one that matters.
That's what is really annoying. Just how sleazy the press was. Vogt made a hell of a lot of money from this case....or at least enough to pay for a nice vacation in Italy. There is no occupation I can think of that I admire and despise more than the press. It can be done honorably to inform us or it can be done simply to entertain us.

Let's be truthful. By far, the most entertaining theories of this crime have been proposed by Prosecutor Mignini and advanced by Vogt. A sex orgy between attractive young people gone wrong. A Satanic ritual murder of the virtuous Meredith to celebrate Halloween. A deep seeded hatred and envy of the prim and proper English girl Meredith by the hippie American girl.

When in fact, it was a boring burglary that turned into a murder.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 11:59 AM   #1596
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,624
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I agree. <fx faint, lie down in a darkened room>

We know exactly what happened.

As Favi-Martuscelli, Marasca-Bruno, Nencini, Micheli, Massei all point out, Rudy, Mandy and Raffy did it.

No two ways about it.
No two ways about it, some people do have their head up their ass. Maybe, that's why the room appears dark?
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume

Last edited by acbytesla; 13th September 2017 at 01:07 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 12:40 PM   #1597
bagels
Graduate Poster
 
bagels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,731
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Seriously, what kind of a diseased mind wants to help murderers 'get away with it'?
You'd have to ask the prosecution team on this case, when they made decisions like not testing the semen stain found next to a rape victim, or not getting the only known eye witness to testify.
bagels is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 12:45 PM   #1598
bagels
Graduate Poster
 
bagels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,731
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I agree. <fx faint, lie down in a darkened room>

We know exactly what happened.

As Favi-Martuscelli, Marasca-Bruno, Nencini, Micheli, Massei all point out, Rudy, Mandy and Raffy did it.

No two ways about it.
The PGP know exactly what happened. That's why in 10 years they've never been able to put together a single coherent narrative of the crime lol
bagels is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 12:49 PM   #1599
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12,754
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Not sure why you are quoting fanboy Brucie. Has he fallen out of favour, as he didn't bother attending the local 'innocence' event and he's always telling you guys to forget Mandy and move onto other cases.
This is where it's a reflection on me that I'd bother to respond to such childish stuff. "Fanboy"? "Brucie"? "Mandy"? Readers here can make up their own minds as to the seriousness one should take anything from this poster.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As for Knox' 'I cannot lie, I was there' comment, she was obviously talking about the cottage. There wouldn't be any need to lie if she was at Raff's. And in any case, he denies it. His last and definitive statement was that he has no idea where she was between 20:45 and 01:00 on the night of the murder.
False. Indeed if this was true, then the courts would have used the "I was there" statement to convict. The following is the sum total of what Judge Massei said about the matter in 2010, quoting Knox and then dropping the matter (unlike Vogt who turned it into a faux-confession):
Originally Posted by Massei
Then, with regard to the intercepted conversation with her mother and father, in which she said ‚ I was there I have no interest in lying, I’m not afraid of the truth‛ and ‚It’s stupid, I can’t say anything but the truth, because I know I was there, I mean, I can’t lie there’s no reason to do it," she explained that the reference to the fact that ‚she was there‛ meant that she was in Raffaele’s apartment.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
IMV he is simply playing Prisoners Dilemma, or rather, the Nash Equilibrium.
As pointed out to you many times upthread, you have not got a clue about either of those dilemma's or equilibriums. It's embarrassing, please stop it.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Thus, when Andrea was revealed this comment (taped by the police during visiting hours with her Mom, Edda) it was reported accurately.
No it was not. IMV Vogt simply was told this by Mignini, before the judgement was made. So obviously unknown to them (when Massei got around to dealing with the matter months' later in his report), even one of the convicting judges (Massei) did not buy it.

Why do you?

Ok, true or false:

Did Vogt eventually (circa March 2015) declare that the case had ended with a definitive acquittal? TRUE or FALSE

Did Vogt write that her final position on this was that the truth would never be known? TRUE or FALSE

Did Vogt out guilters in that blog posting? TRUE or FALSE
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.

Last edited by Bill Williams; 13th September 2017 at 12:51 PM.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th September 2017, 01:25 PM   #1600
Numbers
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,021
Originally Posted by bagels View Post
You'd have to ask the prosecution team on this case, when they made decisions like not testing the semen stain found next to a rape victim, or not getting the only known eye witness to testify.
Since Rude Guede was the only known eye witness and also accused of the crime, he could not be forced to testify - at least not until he was finally convicted.

Last edited by Numbers; 13th September 2017 at 01:27 PM.
Numbers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Trials and Errors

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:07 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.