Trump and NFL boycott

Darth Rotor said:
I never understood that criticism. All candidates are supposed to go out and shake hands, meet people, display a certain amount of the common touch. So he plays Saxaphone on a late night show. So what? Lots of people like to play music on the side.
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I'm 43. I'm old enough (or was young enough) to remember Reagan (and every President since.)

Both Bushes weren't "people." They were cold visages of what they thought a President should be.

Reagan, you could see his personality shine through at times.
Same with Clinton and Obama. You could tell when they let their Presidential guard down for a few minutes and became a person - and it was nice to see.

Trump. I don't know if he ever was Presidential.


Back to the topic at hand.

I wonder what is going to happen when the NBA's season starts in a little more than a month.
 
applecorped said:
As opposed to the previous, supposed intelligent, family of gritters?
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Aside from Michelle's role as First lady, who in Obama's family or immediate circle were employed at the White House? If there was grift, it was incredibly minor. Now, with Don Donald in charge, how many of his family and made men are we seeing in positions of power? That is the kind of obvious difference.
 
Travis said:
Find me where in the code it says that taking a knee during the anthem means that it disrespects veterans.
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Of course, it doesn't say anything about what it means. But there is an explicit code about how one ought to behave regarding the flag and explicitly it says that one ought to stand for the anthem and face the flag.

This is a long-held tradition. Like other forms of etiquette, there is some arbitrariness to it, but it wasn't pulled out of thin air last Tuesday.

(Again, I'm not saying that the protestors aren't behaving reasonably. I'm merely saying that those who argue the protestors should stand aren't being bizarre or arbitrary.)
 
Mumbles said:
For the first - how do you separate "politics" from the giant flag being held over the field (in violation of the Flag Code) and the National Anthem? That's inherently political. As I recall, that's not done in other countries at all, and kneeling is a compromise - he sat at first, but after speaking with a vet, they worked out that he should kneel instead, to show respect for the unarmed and innocent people brutalized by police.

For the second...well, exactly. Of course, Toupee Fiasco barged his way into it to make it about himself, but I expect to see quite a few more people taking a knee. I know it's spread to the WNBA and sometimes children's games. The MLB player kinda surprised me, though - he hasn't slapped any baseball player (yet).
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Hmm think he will order the military to stop advertising so heavily on football? What would cutting out that stream of cash do to the league?
 
Any guess on when these will stop being anti american protests and instead be the kind of truly american heroes that transcend race like Muhammad Ali?
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
He's an addict.
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"Hello, my name is Donald."
"Hello, Donald!"
"...and I have a problem."

The only issue is that Trump could never participate in a 12-step program because it requires you to put your life and fate in the hands of a higher power, and there is no power higher than Trump in his mind.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Any guess on when these will stop being anti american protests and instead be the kind of truly american heroes that transcend race like Muhammad Ali?
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I'm going to go with "yesterday". There were enough players contributing to the protest that if they were to fire all these "sons of bitches", the league would essentially cease to function. That seems like a tipping point to me.


Armitage72 said:
Who would expected that we could look at President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho and think "He's not so bad after all."
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Hey, I never thought President Camacho was bad. Sure, he was stupid, but so was everyone else. And he at least had an honest desire to try to improve things, and took significant actions to do just that after seeking out the advice of the smartest person in the world.

We should be so lucky as to have someone like him as POTUS.
 
President Donald Trump continued his tirade Monday morning against the NFL and its players who refuse to stand for the national anthem, demanding that the league “respect” the anthem and praising NASCAR for its “loud and clear” position on the issue.

“Many people booed the players who kneeled yesterday (which was a small percentage of total). These are fans who demand respect for our Flag!” Trump wrote online Monday. “The issue of kneeling has nothing to do with race. It is about respect for our Country, Flag and National Anthem. NFL must respect this!”

He started his tweets with praise for NASCAR, writing: “So proud of NASCAR and its supporters and fans. They won't put up with disrespecting our Country or our Flag - they said it loud and clear!”

Multiple team owners from NASCAR, the stock car racing league that is especially popular in the South and in more rural parts of the U.S., took a tougher stance than those from the NFL, warning that they would fire crew members or drivers who protested during the anthem. The Associated Press reported that Sunday’s race in New Hampshire appeared to be protest-free during the anthem.
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http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/25/trump-nfl-fight-nascar-243091

The question is: would anyone who races in NASCAR actually want to protest against racial injustice rather than for it?
 
That's pretty cool that Kansas City Chiefs QB Alex Smith took a stand the way he did. I've never been much of an Alex Smith fan but I am now!

Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith questioned why President Trump was condemning NFL players more strongly than he did white supremacists last month...Smith said it was “uncomfortable” for him to talk politics but that “it struck a chord a little bit to see guys get attacked for a peaceful protest.”
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Argumemnon said:
Why do they even play national anthems at sports games, anyway?
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At an international match I can get it, but hate it.

The worst of the worst happens in major track events such as The Olympics. If a winning athlete didn't run to the crowd and get their national flag to hang round their shoulders their "disrespect" would be all over the front pages of the tabloid papers. No cosy sponsorship deals for them! Pretty often they even neglect congratulating their fellow-competitors in their hurry to grab a ******* flag.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Any guess on when these will stop being anti american protests and instead be the kind of truly american heroes that transcend race like Muhammad Ali?
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It was a good while before Ali made that leap from the former to the latter, though. He was all but blacklisted for a long time for his refusal to fight for his country.
 
Isn't it a legal / constitutional issue when the President of the United States issues statements [= Government action] calling for suppression of Article 1 for specific individuals?
 
The Greater Fool said:
Isn't it a legal / constitutional issue when the President of the United States issues statements [= Government action] calling for suppression of Article 1 for specific individuals?
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Yes, you would think so.

But today we're all about the outrage. We're about pissing and moaning about them protesting, and not really giving 2 ***** about why.
 
NoahFence said:
Yes, you would think so.

But today we're all about the outrage. We're about pissing and moaning about them protesting, and not really giving 2 ***** about why.
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Admittedly no one liked agitators like King at the time they were protesting either.
 
applecorped said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...OTT-NFL-teams-players-won-t-stand-Anthem.html
President Donald Trump has ratcheted up the national controversy over black National Football League players who refuse to stand while the U.S. National Anthem is played before games.
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Is there some way to explain to conservatives that standing up for the anthem is (1) an act of symbolic speech and (2) consummately politically correct? Then hopefully they will come to understand that what they are really asking the NFL to do is create safe spaces free from offensive political incorrectness.
 
d4m10n said:
Is there some way to explain to conservatives that standing up for the anthem is (1) an act of symbolic speech and (2) consummately politically correct? Then hopefully they will come to understand that what they are really asking the NFL to do is create safe spaces free from offensive political incorrectness.
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While most of the Pittsburgh Steelers stayed in the locker room during the national anthem yesterday, one guy went out for it.

He is being praised today for having the courage to stand alone.

Colin Kaepernick, OTOH, was a punk when he was the only one not standing.
 
In the "There's a Tweet for that" category:

From 2013
President should not be telling the Washington Redskins to change their name-our country has far bigger problems! FOCUS on them,not nonsense
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Now, he tells the NFL to fire anyone who protests during the National Anthem.

But it's not inconsistent, no. Ed Brayton sums it up nicely

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2017/09/25/trumps-third-law-motion/
He was on the side of racism then and he’s on the side of racism now.
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Brainster said:
Not much of a con law scholar, are you?
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More than some, less than others.

The President calling for sanctions on USA businesses because of how they handle first amendment issues seems problematic to me.

I just wonder why it's not problematic to #MAGA folks. Wasn't the first amendment one of the things that #MAGB (Made America Great Before)?
 
The Greater Fool said:
More than some, less than others.

The President calling for sanctions on USA businesses because of how they handle first amendment issues seems problematic to me.

I just wonder why it's not problematic to #MAGA folks. Wasn't the first amendment one of the things that #MAGB (Made America Great Before)?
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It is only for white christians though.
 
The Greater Fool said:
More than some, less than others.

The President calling for sanctions on USA businesses because of how they handle first amendment issues seems problematic to me.

I just wonder why it's not problematic to #MAGA folks. Wasn't the first amendment one of the things that #MAGB (Made America Great Before)?
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You referred to the First Amendment as Article I. Article I of the constitution establishes the legislative branch of the federal government.
 
The Greater Fool said:
More than some, less than others.

The President calling for sanctions on USA businesses because of how they handle first amendment issues seems problematic to me.

I just wonder why it's not problematic to #MAGA folks. Wasn't the first amendment one of the things that #MAGB (Made America Great Before)?
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Brainster was showing off. You said Article 1, meaning Amendment 1 or "The First Amendment".
 
A well known figure, greatly admired by Trump, tweeted that the president has more important things to focus on than the NFL.

This tweet came from Trump himself years ago during the whole Washington Redskins issue.

Another one for Trump Criticizes Trump
 
Here's a hilarious "Truth-O-Meter" column on Trump and the NFL, where they come to the conclusion that Trump's claim that the NFL's ratings are way down is Mostly False.

If you want to know why these columns have lost all credibility, this is a good example. The writer acknowledges that ratings were down 8% last year and could be headed for a similar decline in 2017:

According to ESPN, NFL game broadcasters saw an average year-on-year drop in television viewership last season of 8 percent. Fox saw the lowest ratings since 2008 and ESPN since 2005.

Advertising Age media reporter Anthony Crupi told us he estimated a decline of around 9 percent in ratings since last year, although the only window to face a significant decline was the 1 p.m. regional games.
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He acknowledges that surveys indicate that the protests are a big part of the declining ratings:

Trump spokesman Steven Cheung pointed to a Seton Hall Sports Poll that found that 56 percent of 841 respondents cited players not standing for the national anthem as a reason for last year’s ratings drop.
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But get this:

Various pundits criticized the survey results as negligible, pointing out that for every one person turned off by protests, 10 NFL fans tuned in.
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If you lost 1 fan out of 11, how much of a decline is that? A little over 9%.

So how does he conclude that the NFL ratings are not way down? A big part of his argument is laughable:

It’s still a modest decline, according to Paulsen, because the NFL’s ratings are usually so strong — the NFL is the most popular televised sports event in the United States.
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See? Because the ratings are usually so strong, even though they're not as strong now, that's not really a decline, because they're still strong compared to other sports:

NASCAR ratings are in the cellar right now. The NBA had some of its lowest rated games ever on network television last year … It’s an industry-wide phenomenon and the NFL isn’t immune to it anymore."
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If you lose 8% of your audience one year, and the next year you lose a further 9%, that's a pretty serious and steep decline. Advertisers pay for eyeballs, and if you have 83.72% of the eyeballs you used to have you are going to receive 83.72% of the advertising revenue you used to get.

You can argue that there are other factors involved, sure, and I would not dismiss that entirely. But it seems silly to claim, as Politifact does, that Trump's claim that NFL ratings are way down is mostly false, when it is so transparently true.

At any rate, it will be interesting to see how things go over the next few weeks; I suspect there will be more protests and lower ratings. And more media people pretending there is no link between the two.
 
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