Trump threatening NBC?

theprestige said:
The topic is the threat the President poses to NBC, not his official and unofficial powers more broadly.
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Actually, it's about the threat the President made toward NBC, if you want to get pedantic.

And the President can set policy and influence social behaviours, which is powerful enough, his limitations nonwithstanding.
 
So to recap:

A President who attacks free speech = Not a concern.

Football players who kneel during the national anthem = World ruiners.
 
Argumemnon said:
Actually, it's about the threat the President made toward NBC, if you want to get pedantic.
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I want to stick to the point I actually raised.

And the President can set policy and influence social behaviours, which is powerful enough, his limitations nonwithstanding.
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And yet those limitations exist. His official power over NBC is in fact limited. And hell, the leadership of NBC has just as much power to influence social behaviors as the President does. Arguably, they have even more power to influence, since they can control the degree to which they give the President a platform, and the manner in which they frame his statements. (Arguably--but I'm not particularly interested in arguing it, at the moment. Sorry.)
 
theprestige said:
After stripping them of context, in order to dispute a broader point I hadn't actually raised.
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You said "the topic" was X, when it was not. You didn't say "what I'm talking about is X" and I'm not a mind-reader. When you talk about the topic I thought you meant the topic of the thread.

Which differs from what I said how?
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See the word in italics? That's how it differs.
 
Argumemnon said:
Post #139, in case you're wondering, although I think Johnny is taking The Prestige's comments perhaps further than the latter intended.
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Reasonable minds can disagree, but this was the exact quote, in reference to the protesting NFL players:

“…they're doing too much to make the world a worse place.”

Perhaps I’m taking it too literally.

But then again, if the person who made that statement is going to Chicken Little anyone who complains about Trump, they deserve to have their own reactionary hyperbole thrown in their face.
 
Spindrift said:
Attack? Asking for examples of something you claim exists?
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If I said there were several continents besides Australia, would you ask for examples? If I said there were several celebrities besides Kim Kardashian, would you ask for examples? If I said there were several young adult novels besides The Maze Runner, would you ask for examples? If I said there were several good movies besides The Godfather, would you ask for examples?

Why do you need examples of influential people? What benefit do I get from playing along with your request?
 
Argumemnon said:
: D

Not the conversation; the answer to the question.
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When a person on this board asks me for examples of influential people, past experience leads me to believe that no answer of mine will satisfy the question. If Spindrift wants to finish with the question, he'll have to find his own examples.

And actually, I've given an example in this thread already. Just not in direct response to Spindrift's implausible claim to ignorance on the topic of influential people.

Well it reads like that's the gist of it, especially your "What benefit do I get from playing along with your request?".
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Thanks for the feedback. I try to express myself clearly, but I don't always succeed as well as I think. I also appreciate your attempt to get at the core meaning of my posts, rather than simply responding to the exact words as such. It does kind of feel like you alternate arbitrarily between the two approaches though, based on whichever you think offers the more fertile ground for disagreement in the moment.
 
BobTheCoward said:
It isn't that people see no difference. The issue is that almost everyone sees one as real news and the other as nothing but lies. Which one depends on the person.
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If your meaning is that "almost everyone" sees NBC and real news and Infowars as lies ... then I wish I had your confidence.
 
theprestige said:
Thanks for the feedback. I try to express myself clearly, but I don't always succeed as well as I think.
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Yeah, tell me about it!

It does kind of feel like you alternate arbitrarily between the two approaches though, based on whichever you think offers the more fertile ground for disagreement in the moment.
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Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. For what it's worth, I don't look for or enjoy heated disagreements. It just often ends up that way because I tend to be pig-headed.
 
theprestige said:
In what manner can POTUS influence events, outside of official acts within the authority of his office?
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Oh, for ****'s sake. Remember how the whole kneeling thing was a very minor issue until Trump blew it up, leading to a kerfuffle?

He influenced events just by tweeting, for God's sake. Were I to use that abomination called Twitter, I certainly could not do the same. Even those who have very large groups of followers can't make their issues national news like the President can.

Let's not pretend to be quite so bloody naive.
 
phiwum said:
Oh, for ****'s sake. Remember how the whole kneeling thing was a very minor issue until Trump blew it up, leading to a kerfuffle?

He influenced events just by tweeting, for God's sake. Were I to use that abomination called Twitter, I certainly could not do the same. Even those who have very large groups of followers can't make their issues national news like the President can.

Let's not pretend to be quite so bloody naive.
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In defense of Twitter, if you use it as I do as a hub to get your news from a few dozen sources, it's actually pretty good, and saves on browsing time.
 
theprestige said:
Bless your heart, Spindrift. What's in it for me if I play along with your DOK attack?
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His what?

Did you say there were lots of folks with similar influence, yes or no?

On the one hand, it matters little, since such influence is clearly a perk of the presidency and it can be abused. That others have similar influence has **** all to do with whether Trump's use of the Bully Tweet should be criticized.

And on the other hand, if you said there were lots of folk with similar influence, you should be happy to back up the claim with evidence or forfeit it.
 
BobTheCoward said:
To influence



Is his words influential? He doesn't seem to have much effect on opinions or behavior. No one's opinions seem changed. Actions seem restrained to an existing range of behaviors people were already predisposed to.

He hasn't aimed his (unpopular) population but merely fed it.
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Were people already predisposed to harassing and assaulting minorities minding their own business and citing the ascension of Trump in support of their behavior?

Or would the ascension of Trump (and the statements made and viewpoints validated) be kind of a necessary underlying issue?

There was an incident at I believe a Boston airport like that. I've personally overheard a few "yeah well Trump is here now so get used to it" type retorts since his election.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Were people already predisposed to harassing and assaulting minorities minding their own business and citing the ascension of Trump in support of their behavior?

Or would the ascension of Trump (and the statements made and viewpoints validated) be kind of a necessary underlying issue?

There was an incident at I believe a Boston airport like that. I've personally overheard a few "yeah well Trump is here now so get used to it" type retorts since his election.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk
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I think they were predisposed to being violent bigots. I don't know how much the term influential (having great influence) means able to move predisposed people a marginal amount or means ability to turn Bernie Sanders into a violent anti semite. I don't know what the line for influential is.
 
johnny karate said:
So to recap:

A President who attacks free speech = Not a concern.

Football players who kneel during the national anthem = World ruiners.
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The President is a white (well orange) Republican, so no big deal.

The football players are mostly black so obviously it is outrageous.
 
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theprestige said:
If I said there were several continents besides Australia, would you ask for examples? If I said there were several celebrities besides Kim Kardashian, would you ask for examples? If I said there were several young adult novels besides The Maze Runner, would you ask for examples? If I said there were several good movies besides The Godfather, would you ask for examples?

Why do you need examples of influential people? What benefit do I get from playing along with your request?
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You get to show your evidence that's why. Otherwise you obviously don't have any examples.

So who else has influence like the POTUS?
 
Spindrift said:
You get to show your evidence that's why.
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Again, how does this benefit me? What are you offering, that will make it worthwhile for me to play along with you?

Otherwise you obviously don't have any examples.
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I've given examples in this thread.

So who else has influence like the POTUS?
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If you want to discuss the nature of presidential influence, and how it differs from other kinds of celebrity and media influence, be my guest. I would happily participate in such a discussion. If you were to offer me such a discussion, I would happily examine other influencers with you, and compare them to the president. But I really don't see the value of starting such a discussion with someone whose opening gambit is to profess ignorance that such influencers even exist.
 
theprestige said:
Again, how does this benefit me? What are you offering, that will make it worthwhile for me to play along with you?
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Intellectual integrity, but some of us don't take much stock in that, I suppose.

Your examples in this thread? What, that Kim Kardashian wields influence comparable to Trump's? Remarkable, sir, an insight that few would make.
 
theprestige said:
Again, how does this benefit me? What are you offering, that will make it worthwhile for me to play along with you?


I've given examples in this thread.
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No you haven't.

theprestige said:
If you want to discuss the nature of presidential influence, and how it differs from other kinds of celebrity and media influence, be my guest. I would happily participate in such a discussion. If you were to offer me such a discussion, I would happily examine other influencers with you, and compare them to the president. But I really don't see the value of starting such a discussion with someone whose opening gambit is to profess ignorance that such influencers even exist.
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I don't care to discuss that.
 
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