[Merged] Neil DeGrasse Tyson accused of rape/Three women accuse NdGT of sexual misconduct

portlandatheist · 25th October 2017, 08:12 PM

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacre...cused-of-rape/

From blog post:

Quote:

I have absolutely no idea if any of this is true, and neither Amet nor Tyson responded to my requests for comment
Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacre...pwttqEE2DKI.99

First of all, I love NGT a lot and have a very hard time imagining these allegations as true. Secondly, WTF? It is completely premature and irresponsible to post what is essentially gossip and hearsay like this. It seems to me that there is a bit of a moral panic happening right now.

Babbylonian · 25th October 2017, 08:37 PM

1. Repeating someone's accusation from 3 years ago, regarding an event from 30 years prior to that, can hardly be called "premature."
2. The blog post with the original accusation is very weird.
3. The blog post repeating the accusation, linked in the OP, is some very sloppy stuff, linking to others who seem to take the accusation at face value despite the very weird way in which it was presented.

It's hardly surprising that the accusation hasn't gotten more attention given the format which seems to be taking issue with people who like NDT (including President Obama), as if they're just supposed to know that he's an accused rapist prior to any public accusation.

I don't know. I've got no particular dog in the hunt. I've found NDT at turns both entertaining and irritating and have no particular interest in either believing he's a rapist or not. If he did it, he's obviously horrible, but I'm not sure I'm ready to buy in.

Noztradamus · 25th October 2017, 09:07 PM

I think it's just awful when Hollywood people are accuse of rape before any charges are laid.

John Jones · 25th October 2017, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Noztradamus

I think it's just awful when Hollywood people are accuse of rape before any charges are laid.

I think it's just awful regardless of who is accused of rape before charges are laid.

Why are you so protective of Hollywood people?

theprestige · 25th October 2017, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by John Jones

I think it's just awful regardless of who is accused of rape before charges are laid.

Why are you so protective of Hollywood people?

Whoosh.jpg

Skeptic Ginger · 25th October 2017, 10:10 PM

I'm not finding the account credible. I imagine NGT at that time would have had no trouble getting laid. The Cosby drug thing, you had this sick man and lots of people knew about it. So do we have any evidence whatsoever that NGT was into screwing unconscious girls?

I will admit this crap biased me: “musician, healer, and teacher” and "galactic astronomer".

As did this:

Quote:

That was something young men did way too often. My mother still reminds me to watch my drink when I go out with anyone…

That Spanish fly myth was popular in my day. But rohypnol came later. Yes, obviously there are guys using it now, but I can't see that being the case when Tyson would have been in college.

There was a time when a single sexual accusation against a famous person could legitimately be brushed off as a nutty fan. (Billy Jean was not my lover...) Unless I see more evidence, I'm going with nutty fan.

Puppycow · 26th October 2017, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I'm not finding the account credible. I imagine NGT at that time would have had no trouble getting laid. The Cosby drug thing, you had this sick man and lots of people knew about it. So do we have any evidence whatsoever that NGT was into screwing unconscious girls?

I will admit this crap biased me: “musician, healer, and teacher” and "galactic astronomer".

As did this:That Spanish fly myth was popular in my day. But rohypnol came later. Yes, obviously there are guys using it now, but I can't see that being the case when Tyson would have been in college.

There was a time when a single sexual accusation against a famous person could legitimately be brushed off as a nutty fan. (Billy Jean was not my lover...) Unless I see more evidence, I'm going with nutty fan.

I remain agnostic but I think the highlighted bit is irrelevant. Not all rapists are guys who can't get laid any other way.

Puppycow · 26th October 2017, 01:09 AM

After reading the blog posts, the only evidence seems to be her word.

But I can't really say that it's her word against his because as far as I can tell, he hasn't said anything about this (did anyone else find any indication that he has ever denied it?).

So I guess he's ignoring it and will continue to ignore it as long as he is able (unless I am mistaken and he denied it in the past).

Usually I think it's a pretty good bet that if a guy did something like this once, he probably did it more than once. But we have only one accuser so far.

Exactly how common false accusations are is unclear. But going back 30 years to make a false accusation doesn't sound like the sort of thing a false accuser would be likely to do. Does she have any history of making such accusations? Do the people who know her think she is trustworthy?

dann · 26th October 2017, 01:55 AM

Did she want to become an astronaut, an astronomer or an astrologer? Is she able tell the difference?

Quote:

Let’s face it: the Western approach to medicine, health, education, and diet, is slowly killing us and/or our family members.Many of us are still mentally enslaved, and perpetually brainwashed.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacre...ent-3585260763

If anyone represents “the Western approach to medicine, health, education” (and science in general), it’s NDGT.
Of course, this only tells us that she might have a motive to hurt him, not that he raped or didn’t rape anybody.

Jack by the hedge · 26th October 2017, 02:58 AM

"Let’s face it: the Western approach to medicine, health, education, and diet, is slowly killing us ..."

Is there a rule of Let's face it? If not, there should be. It's an alarm bell for me.

HopDavid · 26th October 2017, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacre...cused-of-rape/

First of all, I love NGT a lot and have a very hard time imagining these allegations as true.

I agree with you that the allegations are hard to believe. The accuser seems like a nut job. And I haven't seen others step forward to corroborate her accusations.

I don't believe Tyson is a rapist.

But Tyson remains scandalous. The scandal is so many "skeptics" swallow his highly questionable claims. Some claims which Tyson has even acknowledged are outright falsehoods.

A new stereotype is emerging. Aalewis, the fedora wearing neckbeard. The skeptic community is becoming an object of ridicule.

There is a way to restore credibility, though. Actually practice skepticism. Not just pay lip service to it. They hypocrisy of this community is much like adulterous Republicans paying lip service to family values.

Belz... · 26th October 2017, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by HopDavid

But Tyson remains scandalous. The scandal is so many "skeptics" swallow his highly questionable claims. Some claims which Tyson has even acknowledged are outright falsehoods.

Everybody makes questionable claims, especially when one discusses stuff outside of their specialty. Tyson's usually right on the money when he discusses astrophysics.

Lots of rape accusations running around. I hope this one is unfounded, but also hope that unfounded accusations don't become a thing.

ahhell · 26th October 2017, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by HopDavid

But Tyson remains scandalous. The scandal is so many "skeptics" swallow his highly questionable claims. Some claims which Tyson has even acknowledged are outright falsehoods.
.

I am unaware of these claims.

Quote:

A new stereotype is emerging. Aalewis, the fedora wearing neckbeard.

What does that mean?

I'm not a fan nor detractor of Tyson's and have no idea if this claim is true or false. Unfortunately, about the only time a false accusation is at all likely is when the target is a celebrity, rich, or both.

I am also unfortunately biased against someone described as a, "musician, healer, and teacher."

dann · 26th October 2017, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by HopDavid

But Tyson remains scandalous. The scandal is so many "skeptics" swallow his highly questionable claims. Some claims which Tyson has even acknowledged are outright falsehoods.

What are "his highly questionable claims"?
I have watched the Cosmos series, and I can imagine that a lot of right-wingers aren't too fond of his take on creationism, lead poisoning and global warming, but is that what you're referring to?
And what are the "outright falsehoods" that he's "acknowledged"? (And why do you say, "even acknowledged"? Acknowledging falsehoods seems to be what should be done with falsehoods …)

Belz... · 26th October 2017, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by ahhell

Unfortunately, about the only time a false accusation is at all likely is when the target is a celebrity, rich, or both.

Really? How about just revenge against an ex or someone who rejected you, etc.?

I Am The Scum · 26th October 2017, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

2. The blog post with the original accusation is very weird.

Holy moly, you weren't kidding. For perspective, here is the first paragraph:

Quote:

Today is October 8, 2014. 30 years. Today there was an eclipse, during the Ra Aspolia Pi Cot Sahu (Full Moon and Portal of Djehuty (Sun in Sidereal Virgo, Moon in PIsces, Mercury Retrograde). Kinda intense when you really sit bak and take it all in. Tomorrow, Set (Mars, Ego) has an appointment with Master healer Imhotep (Mars enters Ophiuchus: tome for healing from sexual trauma, time for conquering lower nature, etc).

I am not inherently dismissive of these types of accusations, but frankly, a person who posts stuff like this is very difficult to take at face value.

pgwenthold · 26th October 2017, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by dann

What are "his highly questionable claims"? )

"The atmosphere is like the skin of the apple"

No, see, the height of the atmosphere is .03% of the diameter of the earth, but the skin of the apple is only 0.02% of the diameter of the apple. Where does he get off spouting such nonsense?

Belz... · 26th October 2017, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

"The atmosphere is like the skin of the apple"

No, see, the height of the atmosphere is .03% of the diameter of the earth, but the skin of the apple is only 0.02% of the diameter of the apple. Where does he get off spouting such nonsense?

Thanks, for a moment there I thought you were serious.

The reaction to this statement of his is pretty ridiculous; as if, being a scientist, everything he says should be not only 100% correct but also to scale!

Babbylonian · 26th October 2017, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

Holy moly, you weren't kidding. For perspective, here is the first paragraph:

I am not inherently dismissive of these types of accusations, but frankly, a person who posts stuff like this is very difficult to take at face value.

Yeah. She's almost certainly a kook. It doesn't make it a slam dunk that she's lying, but making up wild stories about famous people isn't exactly rare among the kook community.

phunk · 26th October 2017, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

But going back 30 years to make a false accusation doesn't sound like the sort of thing a false accuser would be likely to do.

1) Farther back makes it harder to disprove.
2) If he's the only famous person she "knows" and 30 years ago is when she knew him...

Kestrel · 26th October 2017, 09:56 AM

You don't have to be a kook to have a false memory about an event 30 years in the past.

Human memory doesn't work like a DVR. We don't simply play back a recording precisely as it happened. Our memory is associative and reconstructive. We recall events by association, then reconstruct what we believe happened based on all sorts of assumptions.

Belz... · 26th October 2017, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Kestrel

You don't have to be a kook to have a false memory about an event 30 years in the past.

Human memory doesn't work like a DVR. We don't simply play back a recording precisely as it happened. Our memory is associative and reconstructive. We recall events by association, then reconstruct what we believe happened based on all sorts of assumptions.

It's also reconstructed every time you recall it, integrating new experience to reinterpret and rearrange it. Not exactly the most reliable thing.

Hubert Cumberdale · 26th October 2017, 10:15 AM

I'm feeling a bit left out. I haven't even raped anyone and no one has raped me back. Am I the only one?

Pterodactyl · 26th October 2017, 10:15 AM

Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation".

Belz... · 26th October 2017, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation".

The thought had crossed my mind.

I Am The Scum · 26th October 2017, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation".

Did you actually read what she wrote?

William Parcher · 26th October 2017, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Argumemnon

It's also reconstructed every time you recall it, integrating new experience to reinterpret and rearrange it. Not exactly the most reliable thing.

This cannot be applied as a blanket concept. You should know damn well that you have many old memories that are not reinterpreted or rearranged each time they are recalled - and they are 100% accurate.

Belz... · 26th October 2017, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

This cannot be applied as a blanket concept. You should know damn well that you have many old memories that are not reinterpreted or rearranged each time they are recalled - and they are 100% accurate.

Is that supposed to be sarcasm?

Older memories are particularily at risk of alteration. The brain doesn't actually record these thing, so yeah, it can be applied as a blanket statement. Why do you say that I know "damn well" what you're saying?

Giz · 26th October 2017, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation".

Indeed. What happened to "sexual-assault survivors have the right to be believed"?

Porpoise of Life · 26th October 2017, 10:40 AM

The blog post does appear to be strange,
disjointed and rambling. And that's not even mentioning all the appeals to the supernatural.
Then again, that doesn't mean she's lying. We simply don't know.

Originally Posted by Argumemnon

Why do you say that I know "damn well" what you're saying?

He distinctly remembers having told this to you before...

smartcooky · 26th October 2017, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation".

The jury is still out on whether she really is a victim here. That she is a kook is of very little doubt.

When you go making 30 year old accusations against people, simple claims are not enough; you need evidence, and she has provided none. When the accusee is a celebrity or someone famous, you really need others to come forward and tell their stories too in order to establish a pattern (as in Rolf Harris, Bill Cosby, Jimmy Saville and Harvey Weinstein). When you have been making these accusations for three years and there hasn't been a peep out of anyone else, then in order for your claim to even begin to be taken seriously, your own house needs to be in order.

This woman is a woo woo merchant, who claims to be an "astrologer," and calls herself a "healer" and "teacher". Its very difficult to take these kinds of nutjobs seriously.

Kestrel · 26th October 2017, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale

I'm feeling a bit left out. I haven't even raped anyone and no one has raped me back. Am I the only one?

You tried to rape me at Disneyland but I was saved by a park employee wearing a Bugs Bunny costume.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Babbylonian · 26th October 2017, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation".

Slow your roll. I can only speak for myself, but my only conclusion is that I don't know. Observing that the story is more suspect because the person telling it is clearly a kook doesn't mean that I'm calling her a liar or attempting to "shame" her. It just means that given what I know so far the story doesn't seem credible. I'll grant that the difference is subtle, but it's there. If no more facts are offered, the accusation simply doesn't warrant regarding Tyson as a rapist.

For the record. I'm sympathetic to her and that sympathy isn't contingent on the truth of what she said. For example, rape is a terrible thing to have to remember, even if the memory is false. The only way I wouldn't have sympathy for her is if she was purposely lying...something that would be similarly difficult to prove.

ETA: Another consideration is that she might truly be a victim of rape and the trauma sent her down the path to being a "kook." That would be a serious bummer, too.

dudalb · 26th October 2017, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Kestrel

You tried to rape me at Disneyland but I was saved by a park employee wearing a ~~Bugs Bunny~~ Donald Duck costume.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

FTFY.Wrong cartoon Franchise. Warners would not allow Bugs withina 100 miles of appearing at Disneyland.

dudalb · 26th October 2017, 11:45 AM

As much as I dislike that Tyson has become a publicity whore, and has made an fool of himself with some of his comments on everything under the sun (proving that often an expert can be totally ignorant of things outside his area of expertise) I find the evidence here to be lacking.

Kestrel · 26th October 2017, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

FTFY.Wrong cartoon Franchise. Warners would not allow Bugs withina 100 miles of appearing at Disneyland.

You didn't watch the video link I provided.

‘I tawt I taw’ a bunny wabbit at Disneyland; New evidence shows false memories can be created

Quote:

About one-third of the people who were exposed to a fake print advertisement that described a visit to Disneyland and how they met and shook hands with Bugs Bunny later said they remembered or knew the event happened to them.

The scenario described in the ad never occurred because Bugs Bunny is a Warner Bros. cartoon character and wouldn’t be featured in any Walt Disney Co. property, according to University of Washington memory researchers Jacquie Pickrell and Elizabeth Loftus. Pickrell will make two presentations on the topic at the annual meeting of the American Psychological Society (APS) on Sunday (June 17) in Toronto and at a satellite session of the Society for Applied Research in Memory and Cognition in Kingston, Ontario, on Wednesday.

“The frightening thing about this study is that it suggests how easily a false memory can be created,” said Pickrell, UW psychology doctoral student.

Babbylonian · 26th October 2017, 11:59 AM

I'm a member of the "Berenstein Bears" club, myself. False memories can happen to anybody.

Belz... · 26th October 2017, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

I'm a member of the "Berenstein Bears" club, myself. False memories can happen to anybody.

Those aren't false memories. It's from alternate realities!

Skeptic Ginger · 26th October 2017, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I remain agnostic but I think the highlighted bit is irrelevant. Not all rapists are guys who can't get laid any other way.

Yeah, you're right. But honestly, it's still a sick behavior and do we have any evidence whatsoever NGT is sexually sick?

Skeptic Ginger · 26th October 2017, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation".

That's just not true. I used to like and admire Cosby. I don't now.

Come on, taking women seriously doesn't mean we should forget there are lots of people who make bizarre claims about famous people.

We have a kooky person who identifies with cosmology but isn't a scientist or an astronomer. We have a single accusation. It's from 30 years ago.

Why are we not allowed to take the default position here it's BS until more evidence emerges?

25th October 2017, 08:12 PM	#1
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,216	Neil DeGrasse Tyson accused of rape/Three women accuse NdGT of sexual misconduct http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacre...cused-of-rape/ From blog post: Quote: I have absolutely no idea if any of this is true, and neither Amet nor Tyson responded to my requests for comment Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacre...pwttqEE2DKI.99 First of all, I love NGT a lot and have a very hard time imagining these allegations as true. Secondly, WTF? It is completely premature and irresponsible to post what is essentially gossip and hearsay like this. It seems to me that there is a bit of a moral panic happening right now.

25th October 2017, 08:37 PM	#2
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,001	1. Repeating someone's accusation from 3 years ago, regarding an event from 30 years prior to that, can hardly be called "premature." 2. The blog post with the original accusation is very weird. 3. The blog post repeating the accusation, linked in the OP, is some very sloppy stuff, linking to others who seem to take the accusation at face value despite the very weird way in which it was presented. It's hardly surprising that the accusation hasn't gotten more attention given the format which seems to be taking issue with people who like NDT (including President Obama), as if they're just supposed to know that he's an accused rapist prior to any public accusation. I don't know. I've got no particular dog in the hunt. I've found NDT at turns both entertaining and irritating and have no particular interest in either believing he's a rapist or not. If he did it, he's obviously horrible, but I'm not sure I'm ready to buy in.
	Last edited by Babbylonian; 25th October 2017 at 08:51 PM.

25th October 2017, 09:07 PM	#3
Noztradamus Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 4,680	I think it's just awful when Hollywood people are accuse of rape before any charges are laid.
Noztradamus Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 4,680	__________________ The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.

25th October 2017, 09:24 PM	#4
John Jones Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Iowa USA Posts: 12,131	Originally Posted by Noztradamus I think it's just awful when Hollywood people are accuse of rape before any charges are laid. I think it's just awful regardless of who is accused of rape before charges are laid. Why are you so protective of Hollywood people?
	__________________ "Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave

25th October 2017, 10:10 PM	#6
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 77,045	I'm not finding the account credible. I imagine NGT at that time would have had no trouble getting laid. The Cosby drug thing, you had this sick man and lots of people knew about it. So do we have any evidence whatsoever that NGT was into screwing unconscious girls? I will admit this crap biased me: “musician, healer, and teacher” and "galactic astronomer". As did this: Quote: That was something young men did way too often. My mother still reminds me to watch my drink when I go out with anyone… That Spanish fly myth was popular in my day. But rohypnol came later. Yes, obviously there are guys using it now, but I can't see that being the case when Tyson would have been in college. There was a time when a single sexual accusation against a famous person could legitimately be brushed off as a nutty fan. (Billy Jean was not my lover...) Unless I see more evidence, I'm going with nutty fan.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 25th October 2017 at 10:16 PM.

25th October 2017, 09:51 PM	#5
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 39,683	Originally Posted by John Jones I think it's just awful regardless of who is accused of rape before charges are laid. Why are you so protective of Hollywood people? Whoosh.jpg

26th October 2017, 12:01 AM	#7
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,229	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I'm not finding the account credible. I imagine NGT at that time would have had no trouble getting laid. The Cosby drug thing, you had this sick man and lots of people knew about it. So do we have any evidence whatsoever that NGT was into screwing unconscious girls? I will admit this crap biased me: “musician, healer, and teacher” and "galactic astronomer". As did this:That Spanish fly myth was popular in my day. But rohypnol came later. Yes, obviously there are guys using it now, but I can't see that being the case when Tyson would have been in college. There was a time when a single sexual accusation against a famous person could legitimately be brushed off as a nutty fan. (Billy Jean was not my lover...) Unless I see more evidence, I'm going with nutty fan. I remain agnostic but I think the highlighted bit is irrelevant. Not all rapists are guys who can't get laid any other way.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

26th October 2017, 01:09 AM	#8
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,229	After reading the blog posts, the only evidence seems to be her word. But I can't really say that it's her word against his because as far as I can tell, he hasn't said anything about this (did anyone else find any indication that he has ever denied it?). So I guess he's ignoring it and will continue to ignore it as long as he is able (unless I am mistaken and he denied it in the past). Usually I think it's a pretty good bet that if a guy did something like this once, he probably did it more than once. But we have only one accuser so far. Exactly how common false accusations are is unclear. But going back 30 years to make a false accusation doesn't sound like the sort of thing a false accuser would be likely to do. Does she have any history of making such accusations? Do the people who know her think she is trustworthy?
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

26th October 2017, 01:55 AM	#9
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 9,125	Did she want to become an astronaut, an astronomer or an astrologer? Is she able tell the difference? Quote: Let’s face it: the Western approach to medicine, health, education, and diet, is slowly killing us and/or our family members.Many of us are still mentally enslaved, and perpetually brainwashed. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacre...ent-3585260763 If anyone represents “the Western approach to medicine, health, education” (and science in general), it’s NDGT. Of course, this only tells us that she might have a motive to hurt him, not that he raped or didn’t rape anybody.
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 9,125	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

26th October 2017, 02:58 AM	#10
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,814	"Let’s face it: the Western approach to medicine, health, education, and diet, is slowly killing us ..." Is there a rule of Let's face it? If not, there should be. It's an alarm bell for me.

26th October 2017, 07:30 AM	#11
HopDavid Thinker Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 193	Originally Posted by portlandatheist http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacre...cused-of-rape/ First of all, I love NGT a lot and have a very hard time imagining these allegations as true. I agree with you that the allegations are hard to believe. The accuser seems like a nut job. And I haven't seen others step forward to corroborate her accusations. I don't believe Tyson is a rapist. But Tyson remains scandalous. The scandal is so many "skeptics" swallow his highly questionable claims. Some claims which Tyson has even acknowledged are outright falsehoods. A new stereotype is emerging. Aalewis, the fedora wearing neckbeard. The skeptic community is becoming an object of ridicule. There is a way to restore credibility, though. Actually practice skepticism. Not just pay lip service to it. They hypocrisy of this community is much like adulterous Republicans paying lip service to family values.
HopDavid Thinker Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 193

26th October 2017, 07:35 AM	#12
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 87,055	Originally Posted by HopDavid But Tyson remains scandalous. The scandal is so many "skeptics" swallow his highly questionable claims. Some claims which Tyson has even acknowledged are outright falsehoods. Everybody makes questionable claims, especially when one discusses stuff outside of their specialty. Tyson's usually right on the money when he discusses astrophysics. Lots of rape accusations running around. I hope this one is unfounded, but also hope that unfounded accusations don't become a thing.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

26th October 2017, 07:46 AM	#13
ahhell Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,786	Originally Posted by HopDavid But Tyson remains scandalous. The scandal is so many "skeptics" swallow his highly questionable claims. Some claims which Tyson has even acknowledged are outright falsehoods. . I am unaware of these claims. Quote: A new stereotype is emerging. Aalewis, the fedora wearing neckbeard. What does that mean? I'm not a fan nor detractor of Tyson's and have no idea if this claim is true or false. Unfortunately, about the only time a false accusation is at all likely is when the target is a celebrity, rich, or both. I am also unfortunately biased against someone described as a, "musician, healer, and teacher."
ahhell Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,786

26th October 2017, 07:47 AM	#14
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 9,125	Originally Posted by HopDavid But Tyson remains scandalous. The scandal is so many "skeptics" swallow his highly questionable claims. Some claims which Tyson has even acknowledged are outright falsehoods. What are "his highly questionable claims"? I have watched the Cosmos series, and I can imagine that a lot of right-wingers aren't too fond of his take on creationism, lead poisoning and global warming, but is that what you're referring to? And what are the "outright falsehoods" that he's "acknowledged"? (And why do you say, "even* acknowledged"*? Acknowledging falsehoods seems to be what should be done with falsehoods …)
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 9,125	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

26th October 2017, 07:56 AM	#15
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 87,055	Originally Posted by ahhell Unfortunately, about the only time a false accusation is at all likely is when the target is a celebrity, rich, or both. Really? How about just revenge against an ex or someone who rejected you, etc.?
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

26th October 2017, 08:18 AM	#16
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,121	Originally Posted by Babbylonian 2. The blog post with the original accusation is very weird. Holy moly, you weren't kidding. For perspective, here is the first paragraph: Quote: Today is October 8, 2014. 30 years. Today there was an eclipse, during the Ra Aspolia Pi Cot Sahu (Full Moon and Portal of Djehuty (Sun in Sidereal Virgo, Moon in PIsces, Mercury Retrograde). Kinda intense when you really sit bak and take it all in. Tomorrow, Set (Mars, Ego) has an appointment with Master healer Imhotep (Mars enters Ophiuchus: tome for healing from sexual trauma, time for conquering lower nature, etc). I am not inherently dismissive of these types of accusations, but frankly, a person who posts stuff like this is very difficult to take at face value.

26th October 2017, 08:18 AM	#17
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 18,466	Originally Posted by dann What are "his highly questionable claims"? ) "The atmosphere is like the skin of the apple" No, see, the height of the atmosphere is .03% of the diameter of the earth, but the skin of the apple is only 0.02% of the diameter of the apple. Where does he get off spouting such nonsense?
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

26th October 2017, 08:22 AM	#18
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 87,055	Originally Posted by pgwenthold "The atmosphere is like the skin of the apple" No, see, the height of the atmosphere is .03% of the diameter of the earth, but the skin of the apple is only 0.02% of the diameter of the apple. Where does he get off spouting such nonsense? Thanks, for a moment there I thought you were serious. The reaction to this statement of his is pretty ridiculous; as if, being a scientist, everything he says should be not only 100% correct but also to scale!
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

26th October 2017, 08:27 AM	#19
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,001	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum Holy moly, you weren't kidding. For perspective, here is the first paragraph: I am not inherently dismissive of these types of accusations, but frankly, a person who posts stuff like this is very difficult to take at face value. Yeah. She's almost certainly a kook. It doesn't make it a slam dunk that she's lying, but making up wild stories about famous people isn't exactly rare among the kook community.

26th October 2017, 09:15 AM	#20
phunk Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,074	Originally Posted by Puppycow But going back 30 years to make a false accusation doesn't sound like the sort of thing a false accuser would be likely to do. 1) Farther back makes it harder to disprove. 2) If he's the only famous person she "knows" and 30 years ago is when she knew him...
phunk Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,074

26th October 2017, 09:56 AM	#21
Kestrel Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,977	You don't have to be a kook to have a false memory about an event 30 years in the past. Human memory doesn't work like a DVR. We don't simply play back a recording precisely as it happened. Our memory is associative and reconstructive. We recall events by association, then reconstruct what we believe happened based on all sorts of assumptions.

26th October 2017, 10:06 AM	#22
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 87,055	Originally Posted by Kestrel You don't have to be a kook to have a false memory about an event 30 years in the past. Human memory doesn't work like a DVR. We don't simply play back a recording precisely as it happened. Our memory is associative and reconstructive. We recall events by association, then reconstruct what we believe happened based on all sorts of assumptions. It's also reconstructed every time you recall it, integrating new experience to reinterpret and rearrange it. Not exactly the most reliable thing.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

26th October 2017, 10:15 AM	#23
Hubert Cumberdale Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,140	I'm feeling a bit left out. I haven't even raped anyone and no one has raped me back. Am I the only one?

26th October 2017, 10:15 AM	#24
Pterodactyl Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 1,187	Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation".

26th October 2017, 10:20 AM	#25
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 87,055	Originally Posted by Pterodactyl Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation". The thought had crossed my mind.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

26th October 2017, 10:22 AM	#26
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,121	Originally Posted by Pterodactyl Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation". Did you actually read what she wrote?

26th October 2017, 10:28 AM	#27
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,641	Originally Posted by Argumemnon It's also reconstructed every time you recall it, integrating new experience to reinterpret and rearrange it. Not exactly the most reliable thing. This cannot be applied as a blanket concept. You should know damn well that you have many old memories that are not reinterpreted or rearranged each time they are recalled - and they are 100% accurate.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

26th October 2017, 10:34 AM	#28
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 87,055	Originally Posted by William Parcher This cannot be applied as a blanket concept. You should know damn well that you have many old memories that are not reinterpreted or rearranged each time they are recalled - and they are 100% accurate. Is that supposed to be sarcasm? Older memories are particularily at risk of alteration. The brain doesn't actually record these thing, so yeah, it can be applied as a blanket statement. Why do you say that I know "damn well" what you're saying?
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

26th October 2017, 10:36 AM	#29
Giz Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,574	Originally Posted by Pterodactyl Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation". Indeed. What happened to "sexual-assault survivors have the right to be believed"?
Giz Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,574

26th October 2017, 10:40 AM	#30
Porpoise of Life Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 4,938	The blog post does appear to be strange, disjointed and rambling. And that's not even mentioning all the appeals to the supernatural. Then again, that doesn't mean she's lying. We simply don't know. Originally Posted by Argumemnon Why do you say that I know "damn well" what you're saying? He distinctly remembers having told this to you before...

26th October 2017, 10:53 AM	#31
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 12,925	Originally Posted by Pterodactyl Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation". The jury is still out on whether she really is a victim here. That she is a kook is of very little doubt. When you go making 30 year old accusations against people, simple claims are not enough; you need evidence, and she has provided none. When the accusee is a celebrity or someone famous, you really need others to come forward and tell their stories too in order to establish a pattern (as in Rolf Harris, Bill Cosby, Jimmy Saville and Harvey Weinstein). When you have been making these accusations for three years and there hasn't been a peep out of anyone else, then in order for your claim to even begin to be taken seriously, your own house needs to be in order. This woman is a woo woo merchant, who claims to be an "astrologer," and calls herself a "healer" and "teacher". Its very difficult to take these kinds of nutjobs seriously.
	__________________ "You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

26th October 2017, 11:26 AM	#33
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,001	Originally Posted by Pterodactyl Amazing the attitudes of the critical thinkers here; when we like the alleged perpetrator, we quickly jump to victim shaming "kook" or "bad memory" or "false accusation". Slow your roll. I can only speak for myself, but my only conclusion is that I don't know. Observing that the story is more suspect because the person telling it is clearly a kook doesn't mean that I'm calling her a liar or attempting to "shame" her. It just means that given what I know so far the story doesn't seem credible. I'll grant that the difference is subtle, but it's there. If no more facts are offered, the accusation simply doesn't warrant regarding Tyson as a rapist. For the record. I'm sympathetic to her and that sympathy isn't contingent on the truth of what she said. For example, rape is a terrible thing to have to remember, even if the memory is false. The only way I wouldn't have sympathy for her is if she was purposely lying...something that would be similarly difficult to prove. ETA: Another consideration is that she might truly be a victim of rape and the trauma sent her down the path to being a "kook." That would be a serious bummer, too.
	Last edited by Babbylonian; 26th October 2017 at 11:31 AM.

26th October 2017, 11:45 AM	#35
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,198	As much as I dislike that Tyson has become a publicity whore, and has made an fool of himself with some of his comments on everything under the sun (proving that often an expert can be totally ignorant of things outside his area of expertise) I find the evidence here to be lacking.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

26th October 2017, 11:53 AM	#36
Kestrel Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,977	Originally Posted by dudalb FTFY.Wrong cartoon Franchise. Warners would not allow Bugs withina 100 miles of appearing at Disneyland. You didn't watch the video link I provided. ‘I tawt I taw’ a bunny wabbit at Disneyland; New evidence shows false memories can be created Quote: About one-third of the people who were exposed to a fake print advertisement that described a visit to Disneyland and how they met and shook hands with Bugs Bunny later said they remembered or knew the event happened to them. The scenario described in the ad never occurred because Bugs Bunny is a Warner Bros. cartoon character and wouldn’t be featured in any Walt Disney Co. property, according to University of Washington memory researchers Jacquie Pickrell and Elizabeth Loftus. Pickrell will make two presentations on the topic at the annual meeting of the American Psychological Society (APS) on Sunday (June 17) in Toronto and at a satellite session of the Society for Applied Research in Memory and Cognition in Kingston, Ontario, on Wednesday. “The frightening thing about this study is that it suggests how easily a false memory can be created,” said Pickrell, UW psychology doctoral student.

26th October 2017, 11:59 AM	#37
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 12,001	I'm a member of the "Berenstein Bears" club, myself. False memories can happen to anybody.