Merged Neil DeGrasse Tyson accused of rape/Three women accuse NdGT of sexual misconduct

smartcooky said:
And I'm sorry but the fact that this person is an astrologer, claims to be some sort of "healer" (no formal qualifications) and "teacher (no formal qualifications) puts a serious dent in her overall credibility.

IMO, anyone who believes this woo-woo rubbish has a serious credibility problem right from the off.
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Woo-woo beliefs are prevalent in society. The general public and juries are going to contain a percentage of people who identify with woo-woo. Some may actually think that an astrologer/healer/teacher/spiritualist is a person with an extra dose of credibility. For them, her "words" are to be believed above any skeptic/critical thinker/scientist because she is far more in touch with real reality than they would be.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm only reminding you of what we already know. The world is full of woo-woo people and for them it is truth.
 
But without a little bit of corroboration I'm finding it hard to take her claims very seriously.
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And you shouldn't. Why should anyone take any such claim seriously? Anyone can make a claim, and surprise, the media will print it.

We had a fake massive wave of hate crime (oh all those synagogues right? wrong), fake rape accusations, hands up don't shoot, Johnny was a gentle giant - people will lie about anything and there's so much of it out there right now that it's just noise to me.

Sorry, but right now we are a nation of whiners.
 
"... accused him of telling students they could pass Astronomy 101 if they gave him a blow job."

How many have come forward and corroborated that? Zero?

A mad bitch makes an unprovable accusation against someone she admits to having a grudge against on the basis he craps all over her irrational beliefs.

False claim, no question, although it warms my heart to see people defending her. Poor thing, suffering from PTSD. Suffering from too much ice, by the look of her.

I'd say Tyson's right not to respond to insane claims made by insane or money-seeking crazy women.
 
I agree with you, basically, but could you please remove the "bitch" and your comments about her appearance?!
 
I guess that you are referring to the photo posted by William Parcher. I don't see anything in it that would make me suspect addiction to anything other than the opium of the people (and I would probably only suspect that because I know.)
Her teeth don't look like the teeth of an addict. Europeans of her (or my) generation didn't usually go through the same kind of orthodontic treatment that young people do nowadays. Her family probably couldn't afford to go to a rich people's orthodontist, but her teeth look very natural to me.
It may be because of the case of false rape allegations that I summarized above where the accuser was a very ambitious young woman, the first one in her family to get into college.
She wasn't mean, she wasn't even inconsiderate, and she definitely wasn't "money-seeking". She was crazy. A "poor thing," actually, which didn't make the experience less painful for the wrongfully accused, of course.
I've referred to other, very different cases, but it is hard to tell which category this one belongs to.
And we don't know if Tyson responded to the allegations or not. We just know that he didn't make it public.
 
dann said:
I agree with you, basically, but could you please remove the "bitch" and your comments about her appearance?!
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This ^

It negates the rest of the opinion.

I stand by what I said initially, I don't find the woman all that credible. I did look at the 3 year old blog. Seems odd someone brought it back up now. Without a few or more other women coming forward I'd say this one is unlikely to turn out to be true.
 
dann said:
I agree with you, basically, but could you please remove the "bitch" and your comments about her appearance?!
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Nope. The other word - which is the one I would have preferred to use - only displays as ****.

As to her appearance, when a crazy bitch looks crazy as well, I think it's reasonable to note the fact.

She's made an allegation of rape, and as far as I'm concerned deserves every pejorative in the book. If she thinks she has evidence or a valid complaint, go to the police and don't try to smear someone on the internet.

dann said:
And we don't know if Tyson responded to the allegations or not. We just know that he didn't make it public.
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Public responses are the only ones that matter - she's made a public statement, and his choice is to ignore it (correct) or sue her for it (crazy).
 
applecorped said:
those making rape or sexual assault accusations "have the right to be believed."....HRC
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No, they only have the right to be listened to, just like any other person who claims to be a victim of a crime. No one has a right to be believed unless they provide hard evidence in support of their claim.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
- Chris Hitchens
 
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Argumemnon said:
Everybody makes questionable claims, especially when one discusses stuff outside of their specialty. Tyson's usually right on the money when he discusses astrophysics.
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So you think gravity falls exponentially with distance? (It is inverse square).

Do you think golf balls on the moon have reached earth escape velocity?

Do you think there are more transcendental numbers than irrationals?

Tyson's thing is over simplified pop science, often wrong. He manages to mangle even high school math and physics.
 
dann said:
What are "his highly questionable claims"?
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How about that Bush delivered a divisive 9-11 speech attempting to distinguish we from they? Played well with his "skeptic" audience who like to see Christian presidents portrayed as xenophobic demagogues. Sadly for Tyson, Bush's actual speech was a call for inclusion and tolerance.

Or how about that there's a Ghazali text containing the assertion that math is the work of the devil? And that Islamic innovation ended with Ghazali? When challenged Tyson has failed to produce the text. And Islamic innovation continued for centuries after Ghazali. The father of symbolic algebra was born 300 years after Ghazali's death, for example.

Or how about that Newton could've built perturbation theory in an afternoon had he not been hindered by his belief in the God of the Gaps? After all Newton invented calculus. In two months. On a dare. Well, no. Building calculus was the collaborative effort of many people over many years. Tyson has evidently never heard of Barrows, Fermat, Cavalieri, Descartes and other folks who laid the foundations of calculus before Newton came along. Tyson also seems unaware that Euler and Lagrange also took a crack at perturbation theory. And that Laplace built on the efforts of Newton, Euler, and Lagrange. Tyson is certain that Newton could have done in one afternoon what it took three great mathematicians a century to do. That is a highly questionable claim.

dann said:
I have watched the Cosmos series, and I can imagine that a lot of right-wingers aren't too fond of his take on creationism, lead poisoning and global warming, but is that what you're referring to?
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No, I'm not advocating young earth creationism. Nor was I talking about climate change. But go for it. Attack arguments I haven't made. Knock yourself out fighting your straw men.


dann said:
And what are the "outright falsehoods" that he's "acknowledged"?
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Tyson has acknowledged his account of Bush's 9-11 speech was a product of addled memories and that he misrepresented the intent and context of Bush's speech. He did so reluctantly after some arm twisting. See this Washington Post article.

In regards to his claim of a Ghazali text containing the assertion that math is the work of the devil, Tyson has acknowledged he was misleading by mentioning the devil at all.
 
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HopDavid said:
No, I'm not advocating young earth creationism.
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Any other kind of creationism? (And I'm just asking because I didn't mention "young earth creationism".)
Nor was I talking about climate change. But go for it. Attack arguments I haven't made. Knock yourself out fighting your straw men.
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Why would I attack arguments you haven't made? I was asking about your allegations, and since you weren't being specific, I was trying to imagine what your objections to the guy might be.

Now you have specified what your objections are, thus making it possible for me to invent straw men in the first place - you have to present some kind of argument before somebody can possibly make up a straw man argument against it - but why would I do so? You seem to have a point: Tyson seems to have got things confused. And now:
Tyson has acknowledged his account of Bush's 9-11 speech was a product of addled memories and that he misrepresented the intent and context of Bush's speech. He did so reluctantly after some arm twisting. See this Washington Post article.
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Good article. Everybody should read it and learn not be too cocky about what they think that they remember hearing somebody saying. Very much to the point of the discussion in this thread of the reliability of memories.

In regards to his claim of a Ghazali text containing the assertion that math is the work of the devil, Tyson has acknowledged he was misleading by mentioning the devil at all.
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Great! He "has acknowledged his account of Bush's 9-11 speech was a product of addled memories and that he misrepresented the intent and context of Bush's speech". And he "has acknowledged he was misleading by mentioning the devil at all".
Problem solved, it seems to me. He might have come around a little earlier, he should have done some proper research into the alleged Bush quotation much sooner, and he may have gone a little Basil Fawlty: when he had to admit to his error, but that seems to be the extent of his crime.
The guy is not perfect. I wouldn't expect anybody to be so.
 
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smartcooky said:
Dammit, it looks like we have an NDT hater in our midst.

Oh ****, there goes the planet.
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Enh. There's a lot stuff not to like about NDT. HopDavid does a pretty good job of summing it up. But at this point none if it is "he's probably a rapist". The woman's accusation is sensational, but doesn't appear to have legs.
 
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HopDavid said:
So you think gravity falls exponentially with distance? (It is inverse square).

Do you think golf balls on the moon have reached earth escape velocity?

Do you think there are more transcendental numbers than irrationals?
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Did you even read the post you were replying to? You're giving the impression that you're trying hard to disagree with me for some reason.
 
HopDavid said:
How about that Bush delivered a divisive 9-11 speech attempting to distinguish we from they? Played well with his "skeptic" audience who like to see Christian presidents portrayed as xenophobic demagogues. Sadly for Tyson, Bush's actual speech was a call for inclusion and tolerance.
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Well unfortunately, you chose to leave out the bit about how "the people who knocked these buildings down are going to hear from us real soon". The people he went after turned out not to have anything at all to do with 9/11, and when that fact became obvious, he pulled the old switcheroo, making false claims that they had WMDs and used this as an excuse for invasion and regime change so that he could get his hands on their oil, and in so doing, created a power vacuum..... and look how that has turned out!
 
smartcooky said:
Well unfortunately, you chose to leave out the bit about how "the people who knocked these buildings down are going to hear from us real soon". The people he went after turned out not to have anything at all to do with 9/11, and when that fact became obvious, he pulled the old switcheroo, making false claims that they had WMDs and used this as an excuse for invasion and regime change so that he could get his hands on their oil, and in so doing, created a power vacuum..... and look how that has turned out!
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Well, maybe what he meant to say was that 'Bush's actual speech was a call for invasion and intolerance.' :)
 
HopDavid said:
How about that Bush delivered a divisive 9-11 speech
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Oh, and by the way, thanks for linking to this thoroughly entertaining talk debunking ID. I enjoyed it immensely.

....attempting to distinguish we from they? Played well with his "skeptic" audience who like to see Christian presidents portrayed as xenophobic demagogues.
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Actually, in your rush to judgement, you didn't actually bother listening to what NDT said. When he said "....we from they" he wasn't claiming that Bush's "they" referred to all Muslims...he said "they" were the "Muslim fundamentalists", i.e, the terrorists.
 
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applecorped said:
those making rape or sexual assault accusations "have the right to be believed."....HRC
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Even if you do believe her she hasn't done herself any favors. She has no memory of being raped nor does she tell of any of the reasons why she believes she was raped.

So, I can believe the facts she has recounted even if I disagree with her assertion as to what those facts mean. At least until she has more facts.

But hey, add a capital "T" in there and we are approaching a full sentence. I'm proud. :)
 
Three women accuse Neil deGrasse Tyson of sexual misconduct

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/12/02/us/neil-degrasse-tyson-patheos-allegations


(CNN) — Astrophysicist and author Neil deGrasse Tyson has denied allegations of sexual misconduct made against him by three women.
Last month, three women told Patheos, a religion and spirituality website, that Tyson harassed them and made inappropriate sexual advances as early as 1984 and in recent years.
"Accusations can damage a reputation and a marriage. Sometimes irreversibly. I see myself as loving husband and as a public servant -- a scientist and educator who serves at the will of the public. I am grateful for the support I've received from those who continue to respect and value me and my work," he wrote in a lengthy Facebook post titled "On Being Accused."
 
...1984...

How old was NDT then?

Story not opening on my browser, but the Pluto tattoo seems pretty innocent considering his position on the TNO/dwarf.
 
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Thermal said:
...1984...

How old was NDT then?

Story not opening on my browser, but the Pluto tattoo seems pretty innocent considering his position on the TNO/dwarf.
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I bet he regrets downgrading Pluto now!

ETA: then again searching for Haumea, Maki Maki and others could have got him into even more trouble.
 
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dann said:
25-26.

The latest allegations have been discussed in the thread Sexual misconduct allegations against Radford, Shermer, et al. Part 2 since Friday, Nov. 30, 2018).
Also the thread Neil DeGrasse Tyson accused of rape from last year.
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Over thirty years ago..

I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately.

Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here
 
"I'm covered in tattoos, look at me!"

"How dare you look at me! Rape!"
 
Thermal said:
Over thirty years ago..

I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately.

Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here
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The statute of limitations for sexual assault and rape varies by state.

Thirty-four states impose limits on when a rape case can be brought forward, ranging from 3 to 30 years after the assault. These statutes of limitations were created to ensure that evidence presented in trial has not deteriorated over time. But some crimes — like murder or sexual abuse of a child — have been deemed too heinous to warrant any limitation. Several states have now extended that same protection to rape and sexual assault, as well.
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Doing a little quick work with my fingers reveals that at least 16 states have no statute of limitations on bringing these cases (and the trend is towards removing the statute of limitations).
 
Thermal said:
....
Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here
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I think we can agree that most people would have a strong memory of a traumatic event, and what is traumatic for the victim might not even be significant to the party who caused it, whether it's a violent attack or a traffic accident or getting fired by a callous boss. For example, I believe Dr. Ford is telling the truth about her assault, and I also believe Judge Kavanaugh honestly doesn't remember any of it.

In the particular case of Tyson, he says he was involved in a brief consensual relationship with his accuser.
For me, what was most significant, was that in this new life, long after dropping out of astrophysics graduate school, she was posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets. As a scientist, I found this odd. Meanwhile, according to her blog posts, the drug and rape allegation comes from an assumption of what happened to her during a night that she cannot remember. It is as though a false memory had been implanted, which, because it never actually happened, had to be remembered as an evening she doesn’t remember. Nor does she remember waking up the next morning and going to the office.
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https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/on-being-accused/10156870826326613/

I suspect that if this is anywhere close to true, the chances of successful prosecution would be zero.
 
Bob001 said:
I think we can agree that most people would have a strong memory of a traumatic event, and what is traumatic for the victim might not even be significant to the party who caused it, whether it's a violent attack or a traffic accident or getting fired by a callous boss. For example, I believe Dr. Ford is telling the truth about her assault, and I also believe Judge Kavanaugh honestly doesn't remember any of it.

In the particular case of Tyson, he says he was involved in a brief consensual relationship with his accuser.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/on-being-accused/10156870826326613/

I suspect that if this is anywhere close to true, the chances of successful prosecution would be zero.
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And just because one has strong memory of something, doesn't mean it is correct memory. (Corruption of information is too easy)
 
I seem to recall a study on memory-inhibiting drugs concluding that memories are re-encoded (and potentially altered) every time we recollect them. Hrm...need to look that one up.
 
Bob001 said:
I think we can agree that most people would have a strong memory of a traumatic event, and what is traumatic for the victim might not even be significant to the party who caused it, whether it's a violent attack or a traffic accident or getting fired by a callous boss. For example, I believe Dr. Ford is telling the truth about her assault, and I also believe Judge Kavanaugh honestly doesn't remember any of it.

In the particular case of Tyson, he says he was involved in a brief consensual relationship with his accuser.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/on-being-accused/10156870826326613/

I suspect that if this is anywhere close to true, the chances of successful prosecution would be zero.
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Yes it is well established that you retain a strong memory of a traumatic event, but is it an accurate one? People react to trauma in different ways, sometimes even suppressing the memory. And as you mentioned with Justice Kavanagh, the accused may not be able to provide a defense or alibi for a time he does not even recall. Other phenomena, such as implanted, mistaken, or false memory, could show a jury a convincing victim who, after all, believes their own story.
 
Brainster said:
The statute of limitations for sexual assault and rape varies by state.



Doing a little quick work with my fingers reveals that at least 16 states have no statute of limitations on bringing these cases (and the trend is towards removing the statute of limitations).
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But was was it at that place and time? Changes would be ex-post-facto. eh?
 
For me, what was most significant, was that in this new life, long after dropping out of astrophysics graduate school, she was posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets.....
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Never **** crazy.
 
We need to stay consistent in the way we treat the accused and the accuser. This woman, or women, have every right to be heard as every other accuser. If there is evidence then it should be acknowledged and studied.

As weird as it sounds, I don't "believe" anyone. I will remark that NDT isn't screaming loudly in the mic and blaming conspiracy theories. He's taking the accusations as they come and addressing them.

Either way, NDT shouldn't get off any lighter than anyone else. Just like with Wohl, if this story is ********, they'll figure it out and bring it to light.
 
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