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29th October 2017, 09:03 AM | #121 |
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29th October 2017, 10:33 AM | #122 |
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29th October 2017, 01:55 PM | #123 |
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29th October 2017, 02:20 PM | #124 |
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Just curious: Is there a commercially available sonar system or something comparable that would alert against underwater surprises? I would imagine it would also be useful around reefs, in shallow water, etc.
ETA: There apparently are, but it looks like they're intended to find fish around the boat and monitor underwater topography. I'm talking about something that would look far enough ahead to avoid a floating obstacle. http://www.cabelas.com/category/1045...CQ_pagesize=40 |
29th October 2017, 02:36 PM | #125 |
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I hadn't thought about it, but I wonder if two people in a romantic relationship are more likely to defer to each other -- or one to the other -- than two friends who are doing something together? Two buddies might tell each other "This is what we have to have," where in a couple one might say to the other "I trust you to take care of the details."
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29th October 2017, 02:43 PM | #126 |
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As in "I trust you to know that you can sail a boat with jib only?" Or "I trust you to know how to short sheet the main sail"? Or "I trust you to rig anydamnsail just so other boats have a better chance of seeing us"? Or to rig a sea anchor to halt the drifting off the usual path? hand crank the motor? Or, Or, or....
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29th October 2017, 02:59 PM | #127 |
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You could only ask those questions if you have the knowledge behind them. If one person is a more experienced sailor than the other, even slightly, then the inexperienced person is likely to defer: "Do you know what you're doing?" "Yep, I've done this before." "Well, okay."
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30th October 2017, 06:31 AM | #128 |
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30th October 2017, 06:35 AM | #129 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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30th October 2017, 06:38 AM | #130 |
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30th October 2017, 06:57 AM | #131 |
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30th October 2017, 07:22 AM | #132 |
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I realize this exchange relates to the impact of personal relationships on trust and on the willingness to ask hard questions, but I wanted to focus on the difference between "Do you know how?" and "Have you done it before?"
When I was an active sailor I "knew" about how to do a lot of things that I had never actually done- from reading about it, from talking to other sailors in bars and on docks, etc. But I learned that "knowing" how to do something is very different from actually doing it. I crewed in bay races and I initially learned in principle how to do stuff like how to fly a spinnaker, how to raise one jib before lowering the other, etc., but I had to actually do it, typically first under the supervision of someone with real experience, then multiple times myself, before I was able to do so without error under time pressure on a rocking boat with waves splashing over me. My knowledge of cruising skills is entirely theoretical and I would be a danger to myself and others if I assumed that I could sail to Hawaii using that theoretical knowledge. I learned celestial navigation and I practiced it from the shoreline, but that is very different from taking a site from a rocking boat. In fact just accurately plotting a position on a chart when you are cold and seasick is very difficult compared to doing so after a nice dinner on your kitchen table. [added in edit] The skipper in the OP may have "known" how to do a lot of things without ever having done them. |
30th October 2017, 07:36 AM | #133 |
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30th October 2017, 07:45 AM | #134 |
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Not really. It illustrates that a shark will defend itself against a tiny boat that isn't much bigger than it is which is attacking it, until it can get away. Most fish fight back when they are hooked and being reeled in. The main difference being that they aren't quite as big as a large shark. The idiots in the canoe should have cut the line the instant they had a clue what they were hauling in. It doesn't provide any evidence that a shark will attack a large boat on its own initiative to get to what's inside it. Much less that multiple sharks will do so in concert. Which is what these women are claiming. It might help to remember that in general most shark species don't even view humans as food most of the time, and that most sharks attacks consist of a bite and then, "Nope. That's not on my dinner menu." and a departure. Sadly for the victim, sharks don't have a good way to take just a tiny nibble. |
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30th October 2017, 08:33 AM | #135 |
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30th October 2017, 09:02 AM | #136 |
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30th October 2017, 09:15 AM | #137 |
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30th October 2017, 09:20 AM | #138 |
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30th October 2017, 09:53 AM | #139 |
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Shark stalking a kayaker -- one of my all time fave pics, which IIRC was deemed legit by Snopes(?).
This was my nightmare scenario as a sea kayaker, albeit statistically unfounded. |
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30th October 2017, 10:14 AM | #140 |
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I am skeptical of the shark attack story as well.
Both women are described as being "from Honolulu" in the second article posted in the OP. In my experience living in Hawaii for a few years, I noted that those local to area often told stories that I would consider incredible or fanciful, about sharks and sea life in general, going to great lengths to anthropomorphize their actions. I always took this as a quaint local trait, but it looks a little different in print. |
30th October 2017, 01:52 PM | #141 |
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FTFY. The article accompanying the photo is interesting. The guy who took the photo was intentionally trying to interact with the shark. The rest of the article recounts some of the times his photo was used (unauthorized) in Photoshop attempts to gin up some shark scare or another. Cute stuff. |
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30th October 2017, 02:56 PM | #142 |
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Do sharks bump up against an unfamiliar object out of curiosity ("What is this thing? Is it good to eat?")? If so, the women might have misinterpreted their actions. And did they call them tiger sharks, instead of a correct breed, because that's what they were most familiar with?
Wikip says tiger sharks can be found in warm water around the world and will eat anything. Maybe their story isn't too wild. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_shark |
30th October 2017, 03:44 PM | #143 |
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31st October 2017, 05:35 AM | #144 |
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Good morning. There seems to be some inconsistencies in this story...
Quote:
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31st October 2017, 05:40 AM | #145 |
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31st October 2017, 05:59 AM | #146 |
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31st October 2017, 06:10 AM | #147 |
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31st October 2017, 06:47 AM | #148 |
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31st October 2017, 07:02 AM | #149 |
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The ultimate resolution of these mysteries will be fascinating. I have no idea of what actually occurred but it is far from a straightforward story. If fraud, for what reason? A book deal? I doubt it would pay very much.
Do people here know of the Donald Crowhurst story? He entered the Sunday Times Golden Globe single-handed round-the-world sailing race in 1969. After he left Devon he began to question his ability to complete the race. So instead of heading to the Southern Ocean for the round-the-world trip, he loitered in the South Atlantic for several months falsifying his radio transmissions and navigation logs planning to slip back into England when the other competitors completed their voyage. He hoped not to win but only to look as if he had finished the race. Unfortunately for him the other competitors dropped out. Realizing that if he returned he might be celebrated as "the winner" and all the attention that would entail, his logs (later recovered with his deserted boat) indicated that his behavior became more and more bizarre and he appears to have committed suicide at sea. |
31st October 2017, 08:14 AM | #150 |
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Balloon Boy, part 2
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31st October 2017, 08:35 AM | #151 |
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Perhaps they had heard a theory that Obama's birth certificate had been lost at sea and were trying to drift along in the same current as the birth certificate, hoping to find it.
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31st October 2017, 09:10 AM | #152 |
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My wild ass guess has something to do with Jennifer Appel being in way over her head with the cost of the boat. It's a 50 footer, that's a lot of boat. I don't know how old it was, or even even who made the boat but it would be easy peasy to overextend yourself on a purchase like that.
We'll just have to wait for the truth to come oput on this one but for now, rampant speculation on their motives is about all we got. Maybe they were trying to get themselves on Survivor..... |
31st October 2017, 10:39 AM | #153 |
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My first thought, too. Pulling that EPIRB you have to assume that you will be stuck with rescue costs. Likely far more than they could afford. I'm sure whoever sold them the EPIRB let them know as much at the time of purchase. So, as long as they had food and water no reason to add crippling financial debt to their list of problems.
I don't know a lot of sailers, but I've known climbers who were in over their heads but really didn't want to be saved by a helicopter. Yes, they were stuck, but damn that's a year's wages to a rock bum. |
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31st October 2017, 11:02 AM | #154 |
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31st October 2017, 11:11 AM | #155 |
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31st October 2017, 11:20 AM | #156 |
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Really? According to HowStuffWorks, the US Coast Guard does not pass the bill for search and rescue to the sailor. And according to this insurer, "many other governments do not charge" either.
ETA: I was frankly surprised at your mention that you might get to foot the bill. |
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31st October 2017, 11:31 AM | #157 |
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But your assumption is that they were "lost at sea". I'm wondering just how lost they were. Maybe throw in an insurance claim on a boat they couldn't afford to come back in? 5 months of back payments?
Lessee, the original two weeks to sail to Tahiti, life on the beach for a few weeks. Sail some more, life on the next islands. repeat. Now sail to "no man's land" and report yourselves lost at sea for five months. But oh yeah, hang on to the epirb and comms stuff, you just might need it if you don't get "rescued" soon enough. I wonder if there was ever a survival story published about set sail from Hawaii for Tahiti, storm, dismasting, drift to the same point X? I wonder of their non-functioning GPS would show a course made good? |
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31st October 2017, 11:50 AM | #158 |
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I don't know and ddt seems to have found information that contradicts my assumptions.
I can see rationalizing that boarding another vessel and then being taken to wherever they are going as a low cost solution. Really, if they didn't know the cost of pulling the EPIRB then they shouldn't have left port. |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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31st October 2017, 11:56 AM | #159 |
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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31st October 2017, 12:02 PM | #160 |
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Are you sure about that? I can't find a link either way, but that would seem like a strong disincentive for people to hesitate to deploy them when needed, endangering not only themselves but everybody else aboard. Is the Coast Guard going to send a five- or six-figure bill to somebody whose fishing boat capsizes in a storm?
There are some links about PLBs being activated accidentally or through ignorance -- one guy was found to be using it like an avalanche beacon when skiiing -- but nothing says they're getting billed. |
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