ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags islam , spiritualism

Reply
Old 17th October 2017, 10:23 AM   #81
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,675
Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
Wow. Hang on, I will get the popcorn.
For reals!
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 03:47 PM   #82
Belgian thought
Graduate Poster
 
Belgian thought's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,577
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
I asked this question in other relevant topic:

I simply want to know: whether such absolute words of God in the Quran are expression or basic & absolute truth or also of gross rationals?

Since you read it all, you can tell. In other sense, whether need of time due to natural environmental changes are also accomodated in Quran or those are just basic truths?
It depends how one interprets the word "gross" I guess.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/gross

I go for definition 2, 3, 4 and 5 and apply it to all religions.
__________________
... er, that's it
Belgian thought is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 07:45 PM   #83
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,903
Originally Posted by Belgian thought View Post
It depends how one interprets the word "gross" I guess.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/gross

I go for definition 2, 3, 4 and 5 and apply it to all religions.
Current.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 04:31 PM   #84
Belgian thought
Graduate Poster
 
Belgian thought's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,577
Yeah, whatever. Let us just make words mean the same.

Elephant equals Laptop...
__________________
... er, that's it
Belgian thought is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 04:33 PM   #85
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,174
A gross refers to a dozen dozens of course.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 05:13 PM   #86
Emre_1974tr
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Stoning and circumcision is a Jewish tradition and is completely non-Islamic:

http://quranic.org/rajm-stoning-to-death/

And The headscarf is also out of Islam.

Regards
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 05:23 PM   #87
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Stoning and circumcision is a Jewish tradition and is completely non-Islamic:

http://quranic.org/rajm-stoning-to-death/

And The headscarf is also out of Islam.

Regards
Why do you reject all hadith?
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 05:32 PM   #88
Emre_1974tr
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Because hadiths, rumors have never been a source of religion.

The only source of religion, as our Lord has said, is the Qur'an.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 05:33 PM   #89
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Because hadiths, rumors have never been a source of religion.

The only source of religion, as our Lord has said, is the Qur'an.
Tell me what you know about the process of hadith collection and compliation by the various scholars. Was the prophet also not an exemplar for mankind in his deeds?
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 18th October 2017 at 05:34 PM.
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 05:46 PM   #90
Emre_1974tr
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Of course all the prophets are examples for us.

But here are the real life stories of the prophets in the Qur'an alone.

https://www.hipforums.com/forum/topi...only-in-quran/
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 06:12 PM   #91
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,540
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Of course all the prophets are examples for us.

But here are the real life stories of the prophets in the Qur'an alone.

https://www.hipforums.com/forum/topi...only-in-quran/
This is all you can do? Post links?
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 06:15 PM   #92
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,540
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Stoning and circumcision is a Jewish tradition and is completely non-Islamic:

http://quranic.org/rajm-stoning-to-death/

And The headscarf is also out of Islam.

Regards
And yet stoning still occurs in Muslim nations. Hmmmm.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 06:21 PM   #93
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Of course all the prophets are examples for us.

But here are the real life stories of the prophets in the Qur'an alone.

https://www.hipforums.com/forum/topi...only-in-quran/
Where do you take your understanding of salaat (ritual prayer) if not from reference to hadith?
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 06:41 PM   #94
Emre_1974tr
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Where do you take your understanding of salaat (ritual prayer) if not from reference to hadith?
From Quran.

They are all explained in Turkish article:

http://www.kurandakidin.com/2012/03/...latilmaktadir/
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 06:57 PM   #95
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
From Quran.

They are all explained in Turkish article:

http://www.kurandakidin.com/2012/03/...latilmaktadir/
How many times a day do you pray? Where is it said in the Quran this number?
Describe your prayer ritual, number of rakkats ect, and the source of your understanding.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 11:00 PM   #96
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,903
Originally Posted by Belgian thought View Post
Yeah, whatever. Let us just make words mean the same.

Elephant equals Laptop...
My question is ABC to any understanding. Genotype and Phenotype both need to be understood first to know anyone.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 11:20 PM   #97
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,903
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
A gross refers to a dozen dozens of course.
Better, I should explain it with this example:

Few friend gone to buy a car for each at a big car showroom keeping all type of cars. Salesman well explained to them about safety, stability, speed and latest features of different cars. Now the reactions:

One: When there are so many risks, money and training is involved, why I should buy a car? Better I shall walk. He didn't buy.

2nd: I shall buy a heavy metal strong car even with less potential speed and latest feature.Bought accordingly.

3rd: I shall buy a high speed running car with latest features even metal is thin. It will help me to get better speed.Bought accordingly.

4th: I shall buy reasonably strong car with reasonable stability, speed potential and latest features.Bought accordingly.

Then one sunny day, they all gone for a long distance say 100KMs.

Result: Ist one reached in 2 days, 2nd in 4 hours, 3rd in 2 hours and 4th in 3 hours all safely without any odd but they remarked on each other accordingly.

Since they enjoyed ist trip, they all again gone for same distance on a cloudy day and cars with a serious accident.

Result: Ist didn't suffered but just become wet and reached destination in same two days.

2nd: car damaged patially, but no injury to him.

3rd: car damaged fully but he got serious fatal disabling injuries.

4th: car partially damaged but they got some easy recoverable injuries.

Now, what will you comment, who opted best, better, goor or worst?

Like above, we may need to see all concepts.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 02:22 AM   #98
Filippo Lippi
Master Poster
 
Filippo Lippi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,723
Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
Better, I should explain it with this example:

Few friend gone to buy a car for each at a big car showroom keeping all type of cars. Salesman well explained to them about safety, stability, speed and latest features of different cars. Now the reactions:

One: When there are so many risks, money and training is involved, why I should buy a car? Better I shall walk. He didn't buy.

2nd: I shall buy a heavy metal strong car even with less potential speed and latest feature.Bought accordingly.

3rd: I shall buy a high speed running car with latest features even metal is thin. It will help me to get better speed.Bought accordingly.

4th: I shall buy reasonably strong car with reasonable stability, speed potential and latest features.Bought accordingly.

Then one sunny day, they all gone for a long distance say 100KMs.

Result: Ist one reached in 2 days, 2nd in 4 hours, 3rd in 2 hours and 4th in 3 hours all safely without any odd but they remarked on each other accordingly.

Since they enjoyed ist trip, they all again gone for same distance on a cloudy day and cars with a serious accident.

Result: Ist didn't suffered but just become wet and reached destination in same two days.

2nd: car damaged patially, but no injury to him.

3rd: car damaged fully but he got serious fatal disabling injuries.

4th: car partially damaged but they got some easy recoverable injuries.

Now, what will you comment, who opted best, better, goor or worst?

Like above, we may need to see all concepts.
Religion is the "car" made out of cardboard boxes by the childlike. Everyone sits in the box making brrm brrm noises and then imagines they've reached a glorious destination.
__________________
"You may not know anything about the issue but I bet you reckon something.
So why not tell us what you reckon? Let us enjoy the full majesty of your uninformed, ad hoc reckon..."
David Mitchell
Filippo Lippi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 03:13 AM   #99
Kumar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Kumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 13,903
Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Religion is the "car" made out of cardboard boxes by the childlike. Everyone sits in the box making brrm brrm noises and then imagines they've reached a glorious destination.
If we can understand it by true sense instead óf entities, somewhat by just language change, somewhat latin to englísh, then it can be easy to understand. Eg. If I say trinities are three fundamental forces or H, O, C atoms or carbs, fat
, protien then you can say ok.
__________________
To try reach to Absolute & Final(A&F) is my honest desire. Let the things be A&F or die in themselves, if odd. Just Logical & Equanimious Discussions, No commitments.
Kumar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 04:31 AM   #100
Filippo Lippi
Master Poster
 
Filippo Lippi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,723
Gibberish.
__________________
"You may not know anything about the issue but I bet you reckon something.
So why not tell us what you reckon? Let us enjoy the full majesty of your uninformed, ad hoc reckon..."
David Mitchell
Filippo Lippi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 10:12 AM   #101
kmortis
Biomechanoid
Director of IDIOCY (Region 13)
Deputy Admin
 
kmortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Texas (aka Southern Tier)
Posts: 29,871
Mod WarningMoved a few off topic posts to AAH
Posted By:kmortis
__________________
-Aberhaten did it
- "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Munroe
-Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping
- Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm
kmortis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 03:09 PM   #102
Emre_1974tr
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
How many times a day do you pray? Where is it said in the Quran this number?
Describe your prayer ritual, number of rakkats ect, and the source of your understanding.
3 times:

http://www.quran-islam.org/main_topi...t_(P1200).html

And about rakkats:

http://www.quran-islam.org/main_topi...8P1404%29.html

And other details:

http://www.quran-islam.org/main_topi...t_(P1192).html

Peace
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 03:29 PM   #103
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,540
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Totally cowardly, All you ever do is post links to outside sources. Why not present a logical argument that can be examined and challenged? Is it because you KNOW that it won't hold up to scrutiny?

Feel free to prove my evaluation of your character is a misapprehention.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 03:45 PM   #104
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Prayer was practiced during the prophet’s time, and by immediately proceeding generations practicing sunnah, in particular ways. Why would you not refer to hadith to understand this and other matters like ritual ablution? You do agree that the prophet was an exemplar for mankind so why not refer to collections of carefully currated narations of his sayings and deeds?

The answer is of course in this thread, being that you find contents of hadith collections challinging to your worldview. You just need to deal with the fact tthat religions are inherently spiritual. This should not be hard as I bet you are not a sceptic or have a worldview structured around scientific knowledge- most likely an evolution denier.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 19th October 2017 at 03:47 PM.
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 04:15 PM   #105
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,540
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Prayer was practiced during the prophet’s time, and by immediately proceeding generations practicing sunnah, in particular ways. Why would you not refer to hadith to understand this and other matters like ritual ablution? You do agree that the prophet was an exemplar for mankind so why not refer to collections of carefully currated narations of his sayings and deeds?

The answer is of course in this thread, being that you find contents of hadith collections challinging to your worldview. You just need to deal with the fact tthat religions are inherently spiritual. This should not be hard as I bet you are not a sceptic or have a worldview structured around scientific knowledge- most likely an evolution denier.
What a crock. An illiterate murderous pedophile is an exemplar for mankind.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 04:15 PM   #106
Emre_1974tr
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Salaat ablutions in Quran

Maide 6: O ye who believe! When ye rise up for prayer, wash your face, and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your feet up to the ankles. And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it. Allah would not place a burden on you, but He would purify you and would perfect His grace upon you, that ye may give thanks.

Ghusl:

Nisa 43: O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye and not water, than go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 04:24 PM   #107
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What a crock. An illiterate murderous pedophile is an exemplar for mankind.
*yawn*
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 04:26 PM   #108
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Salaat ablutions in Quran

Maide 6: O ye who believe! When ye rise up for prayer, wash your face, and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your feet up to the ankles. And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it. Allah would not place a burden on you, but He would purify you and would perfect His grace upon you, that ye may give thanks.

Ghusl:

Nisa 43: O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye and not water, than go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.
As you are well aware, this lacks the detail of narrations of the practices of the prophet.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 04:37 PM   #109
Emre_1974tr
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
As you are well aware, this lacks the detail of narrations of the practices of the prophet.
No, The Prophet only applied what is described in these verses.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 04:59 PM   #110
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, The Prophet only applied what is described in these verses.
The Quran only provides broad prescriptions, the detail is found in currated narrations of sunnah, aka hadith.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 05:43 PM   #111
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,540
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What a crock. An illiterate murderous pedophile is an exemplar for mankind.
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
*yawn*
Yeah, I guess it is pretty boring compared to flying planes I to buildings and strapping bombs to your chest. Or sending children into markets with bombs strapped around them.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 05:57 PM   #112
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yeah, I guess it is pretty boring compared to flying planes I to buildings and strapping bombs to your chest. Or sending children into markets with bombs strapped around them.
Go watch some Pat Condell.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 06:05 PM   #113
Emre_1974tr
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
The Quran only provides broad prescriptions, the detail is found in currated narrations of sunnah, aka hadith.
No, the whole detail is only in the Qur'an.

And real sunnah is only in Quran.

Enam 114. Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2017, 06:11 PM   #114
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, the whole detail is only in the Qur'an.

And real sunnah is only in Quran.

Enam 114. Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail.
I dont think we can go any further with this line.

Do you think Hadith collections contain spiritual ideas?
What is wrong with spiritual ideas?
Do you refer materialism? Why?
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st October 2017, 10:00 AM   #115
Donn
Philosopher
 
Donn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In my head.
Posts: 7,675
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, the whole detail is only in the Qur'an.
Do you have a reason to heed the Qur'an that does not rely on the Qur'an?
__________________
"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat
Donn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2017, 01:00 PM   #116
Gamolon
Master Poster
 
Gamolon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,083
Delete
Gamolon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2017, 05:25 PM   #117
Emre_1974tr
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com.tr/20...-to-quran.html
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2017, 06:49 PM   #118
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You say:
In the Quran, people have “nafs”, which is the equivalent of “life energy”, “ego”, “character”. People are born, they die and they will be “physically” recreated in the Hereafter:

Does the human being think that We will not gather his bones? Indeed, We were able to make his fingertips (The Resurrection, 75: 3-4)
If he so desired, could God create two identical copies of you from your bones at the time of resurrection?

Are bones necessary for resurrection? What if bones have been completely destroyed?
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 10th November 2017 at 06:50 PM.
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2017, 04:36 PM   #119
Emre_1974tr
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
If you travel back in time, you will be two. This is not copy.

And no bones are needed.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2017, 05:20 PM   #120
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,241
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
If you travel back in time, you will be two. This is not copy.

And no bones are needed.
Does God need any matter to resurrect?

Could God resurect you twice to have two yous?
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:48 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.