The Puerto Rico Thread

Argumemnon said:
Trump's pretty good at it, no doubt about that, but he does have help from the currently extremely-charged and polarised political climate.
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Trump is certainly... a result of a very specific set of political situations yes.

A "Trump" can't happen often.
 
Argumemnon said:
And no matter what happens, PR caught in the middle. Beautiful.
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That's a point that gets missed to much.

As good as it feels this isn't the time for Schadenfreude and gleeful "I told you so"-ism. I have Liberal friends (and had Conservative friends that were the same way during Obama) that simply are not happy unless "the other side" is messing up.

I'm not. I want Trump to succeed (for very certain definitions of "succeed") because him succeeding is what's best for the country. I don't want to see things get worse and worse just because that proves "My side" right.
 
Argumemnon said:
The right "Trump" need only happen once. This one might not be it, but the next might do in US democracy.
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Maybe I'm being a Pollyanna but I don't think the system is that broken yet. Not to make light of the... problem we're in right now but it's still a system I want to save, not to bury.

Trump is a symptom, not a cause. I don't think we as a people are that far gone yet.

To use a loose metaphor Trump is the fever burning the last of the infection out.

And to be fair maybe I'm just burnt out on all the "OMG My Side Didn't Get It's Way 10000% of the Time Ergo We are All Doomed!" arguments that I wouldn't see the reality of that in time. I'm not discounting that possibility.

But every President in my lifetime was the worst President ever who's going to destroy democracy according to the other side.

Balancing a warning sign with "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" is not the easiest thing to do.
 
Que?

Funeral directors and crematoriums are being permitted by the Puerto Rican government to burn the bodies of people who died as a result of Hurricane Maria — without those people being counted in the official death toll.

...

The funeral home and crematorium directors told BuzzFeed News that they had received dozens of bodies of people who died of hurricane-related causes — just the cases from these two municipalities would potentially more than double the death toll if they were included. The Forensic Institute permitted the bodies of at least 42 potential hurricane victims to be burned, according to one crematorium director.

Puerto Rico’s safety department says the funeral and crematorium directors should send any potential hurricane-related victims to the institute before they’re burned — but admit they haven’t actually officially communicated that to them.

John Mutter, a professor of earth sciences and public affairs at Columbia University who studied how the death count was handled after Hurricane Katrina, said Puerto Rico’s procedures seem to be “deliberately trying to keep the numbers low,” which he called “unconscionable.” Other experts called it a failure of bureaucracy.
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This makes no sense.
 
Civet said:
White House is saying this was all PREPA.
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It is said of the desk in the Oval Office, "The buck stops here."

I think Mr. Trump got confused due to the multiple possible meanings of the words in that phrase.
 
New report from on-the-ground in Puerto Rico.

Still no power. Three miles north of San Juan. They have been told to expect power by February.

This is not the sticks. Commercial and residential. San Juan Metropolitan Area.

Stores and homes with power are using generators, if they have them and can keep them running.

I am beginning to question the reports of 20-25% power restored.
 
quadraginta said:
New report from on-the-ground in Puerto Rico.

Still no power. Three miles north of San Juan. They have been told to expect power by February.
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In comparison to a neighborhood in Havana, September 14, 2017:
After four days without electricity, hundreds of residents from the Santos Suarez neighborhood took to the street in protest on Thursday.
http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=127278
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Read the comments to the article in Havana Times!
 
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dann said:
In comparison to a neighborhood in Havana, September 14, 2017:
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Yes but they lack Cuban wealth, know-how and can-do attitude, to say nothing of the entrepreneurial approach that Cuba has fostered over the last 50 years.
 
:) Me dicen Cuba!
Un cubano de verdad da la vida por su tierra
Vive de frente y derecho, preparado pa'l combate

A true Cuban gives his life for his land
Live front and right, prepared for combat
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I look forward to going to a concert with this band tomorrow night!


PS Of course, the Cubans could do without the necessities that force them to adopt this extreme version of nationalism: 'gives his life for his land' ...
 
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JoeBentley said:
Maybe I'm being a Pollyanna but I don't think the system is that broken yet. Not to make light of the... problem we're in right now but it's still a system I want to save, not to bury.

Trump is a symptom, not a cause. I don't think we as a people are that far gone yet.
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I don't usually go for cynicism but I don't think things are set to improve.
 
quadraginta said:
New report from on-the-ground in Puerto Rico.

Still no power. Three miles north of San Juan. They have been told to expect power by February.

This is not the sticks. Commercial and residential. San Juan Metropolitan Area.

Stores and homes with power are using generators, if they have them and can keep them running.

I am beginning to question the reports of 20-25% power restored.
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I read about the percentages being reported with water. If there is some source of potable water, it counts. The example given was a village where they have set up a large tank, and residents can come and fill containers. Every day, trucks go to a nearby town to fill some sort of very large container, the story wasn't clear. Then they drive that container to the village, and dump it in the tank. That village is listed as having drinkable water.
 
Stacko said:
The Daily Beast got their hands on Whitefish's contract.


That is an insanely sweethearted deal they got.
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IIRC... the Gov said they won the job because they weren't requiring substantial up-front monies, something I'd expect would be common in these recovery/rebuild efforts, but whatever.

So my question is... where is tiny Whitefish getting their financing?
Until last month, they were a two year old, two man, shoestring outfit.

Jeez... this is like giving the entire NFL uniform production job to someone on Etsy. :rolleyes:
 
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The White House line is that the contract was solely a deal by PREPA, with no administration involvement. That's fine, but if true it means they were laying down on the job. Was PREPA forced to go with a second rate firm, incapable of managing such a project, because they couldn't scare up 25 million dollars in front money, and only the second string player Whitefish was willing to do it? Someone in the White House should have known that was what was going on, and made sure PREPA knew that shouldn't be a consideration. The administration should have been there slicing through red tape to get the job done in the best way possible.

And again, I don't want to blame everything bad that happens on Trump, just because I don't like Trump, but this is a perfect illustration of why sometimes the only person who can get something done is the president. It needed to be done. He was the only one who could do it. He didn't do it. Sorry, Mr. President, but it really is your fault.
 
1400 containers of food are sitting in US ports, waiting to be shipped to Puerto Rico.

Ricky Castro is a food and beverage wholesaler and president of Puerto Rico’s Chamber of Food Marketing, Industry and Distribution, known as MIDA, which boasts 200 members across the island. This month MIDA conducted an informal survey of 15 members and found there are roughly 1,400 containers of their provisions sitting in U.S. ports, waiting to be shipped to Puerto Rico.

Mr. Castro attributes the delay to the Jones Act, which mandates that U.S.-flagged, -built and -manned carriers conduct all shipping between U.S. ports. This means an oligopoly of three companies—Crowley Maritime Corp., TOTE Maritime and Trailer Bridge Inc.—conduct the vast majority of the protected trade between the mainland and the island, at inflated costs on aging ships. The ocean-going Jones Act fleet numbers a mere 99 vessels, compared to thousands available from foreign-flagged carriers.
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Meadmaker said:
The White House line is that the contract was solely a deal by PREPA, with no administration involvement. That's fine, but if true it means they were laying down on the job. Was PREPA forced to go with a second rate firm, incapable of managing such a project, because they couldn't scare up 25 million dollars in front money, and only the second string player Whitefish was willing to do it? Someone in the White House should have known that was what was going on, and made sure PREPA knew that shouldn't be a consideration. The administration should have been there slicing through red tape to get the job done in the best way possible.

And again, I don't want to blame everything bad that happens on Trump, just because I don't like Trump, but this is a perfect illustration of why sometimes the only person who can get something done is the president. It needed to be done. He was the only one who could do it. He didn't do it. Sorry, Mr. President, but it really is your fault.
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I'd feel a little bit more sanguine about the plausibility of these disconnects if this out-of-the-blue outfit wasn't personal buddies with Trump's Secretary of the Interior, who is known to have gotten a contract for them just last year, and whose son had worked for them.

Did these guys just happen to pick up the phone and make an offer to the Governor of Puerto Rico that he couldn't refuse? All on their own with no prompting? It doesn't seem like the sort of thing they have any past history of.

In fact, they don't seem to have a past history of very much at all.

One would think it needed more than an offer of credit to get sole consideration for a project of this magnitude.
 
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Stacko said:
1400 containers of food are sitting in US ports, waiting to be shipped to Puerto Rico.

1400 containers of food are sitting in US ports, waiting to be shipped to Puerto Rico.



Ricky Castro is a food and beverage wholesaler and president of Puerto Rico’s Chamber of Food Marketing, Industry and Distribution, known as MIDA, which boasts 200 members across the island. This month MIDA conducted an informal survey of 15 members and found there are roughly 1,400 containers of their provisions sitting in U.S. ports, waiting to be shipped to Puerto Rico.

Mr. Castro attributes the delay to the Jones Act, which mandates that U.S.-flagged, -built and -manned carriers conduct all shipping between U.S. ports. This means an oligopoly of three companies—Crowley Maritime Corp., TOTE Maritime and Trailer Bridge Inc.—conduct the vast majority of the protected trade between the mainland and the island, at inflated costs on aging ships. The ocean-going Jones Act fleet numbers a mere 99 vessels, compared to thousands available from foreign-flagged carriers
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.
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Meanwhile, people are ordering and receiving shipments from friends, and from Amazon.
 
Jim_MDP said:
Wasn't there a bit of White House feel-good BS that Trump only delayed signing the waiver because it's short-lived and they didn't want it to run out before the ships could make port?

Sign it again you ass. :(
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There was never any intention that their short-lived suspension of the Jones Act was meant to actually do any good for Puerto Rico, only that they'd be able to say that they had done it.
 
Jim_MDP said:
IIRC... the Gov said they won the job because they weren't requiring substantial up-front monies, something I'd expect would be common in these recovery/rebuild efforts, but whatever.

So my question is... where is tiny Whitefish getting their financing?
Until last month, they were a two year old, two man, shoestring outfit.

Jeez... this is like giving the entire NFL uniform production job to someone on Etsy. :rolleyes:
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Wouldn't surprise me to find the gov and/or some other officials lined up to get kickbacks. Not sure Trump has anything to do with this at all. More like it's just the circles he runs in. There are a lot of crooks in the crowd.
 
quadraginta said:
There was never any intention that their short-lived suspension of the Jones Act was meant to actually do any good for Puerto Rico, only that they'd be able to say that they had done it.
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That's most likely true.
 
Stacko said:
1400 containers of food are sitting in US ports, waiting to be shipped to Puerto Rico.
Quote:
Ricky Castro is a food and beverage wholesaler and president of Puerto Rico’s Chamber of Food Marketing, Industry and Distribution, known as MIDA, which boasts 200 members across the island. This month MIDA conducted an informal survey of 15 members and found there are roughly 1,400 containers of their provisions sitting in U.S. ports, waiting to be shipped to Puerto Rico.

Mr. Castro attributes the delay to the Jones Act, which mandates that U.S.-flagged, -built and -manned carriers conduct all shipping between U.S. ports. This means an oligopoly of three companies—Crowley Maritime Corp., TOTE Maritime and Trailer Bridge Inc.—conduct the vast majority of the protected trade between the mainland and the island, at inflated costs on aging ships. The ocean-going Jones Act fleet numbers a mere 99 vessels, compared to thousands available from foreign-flagged carriers.
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That sounds even worse than the embargo/el bloqueo against Cuba. Is somebody unable to tell the Castros apart?
 
quadraginta said:
I'd feel a little bit more sanguine about the plausibility of these disconnects if this out-of-the-blue outfit wasn't personal buddies with Trump's Secretary of the Interior, who is known to have gotten a contract for them just last year, and whose son had worked for them.

Did these guys just happen to pick up the phone and make an offer to the Governor of Puerto Rico that he couldn't refuse? All on their own with no prompting? It doesn't seem like the sort of thing they have any past history of.

In fact, they don't seem to have a past history of very much at all.

One would think it needed more than an offer of credit to get sole consideration for a project of this magnitude.
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One thing I was getting at is that even if this isn't corruption, it's incompetence.

It would be very surprising indeed if cronyism or corruption played absolutely no part in awarding a 300 million dollar contract to a very small firm that just happened to be from a cabinet secretary's home town, but let's pretend that it didn't. Let's pretend that the contract was awarded for exactly the reasons it was said it was awarded. If that is the case, then the Trump administration dropped the ball. There's a humanitarian crisis going on. Public utilities shouldn't be forced to make less than optimal arrangements to fix that humanitarian crisis just because an expensive and unqualified company is the only one willing to take the deal without up front cash. That "up front cash" part is something that was easily fixed by some guy in an Oval Office.
 
Meadmaker said:
One thing I was getting at is that even if this isn't corruption, it's incompetence.

It would be very surprising indeed if cronyism or corruption played absolutely no part in awarding a 300 million dollar contract to a very small firm that just happened to be from a cabinet secretary's home town, but let's pretend that it didn't. Let's pretend that the contract was awarded for exactly the reasons it was said it was awarded. If that is the case, then the Trump administration dropped the ball. There's a humanitarian crisis going on. Public utilities shouldn't be forced to make less than optimal arrangements to fix that humanitarian crisis just because an expensive and unqualified company is the only one willing to take the deal without up front cash. That "up front cash" part is something that was easily fixed by some guy in an Oval Office.
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^^^This^^^
 
I suppose the departure of Whitefish is one solitary bright spot in an otherwise dismal tale.

It seems that the US has got bored of Puerto Rico and/or there is so much other juicy stuff going on that it's slipped out of public consciousness :(

I hope that the Trump Administration and the GOP in general is held to account when the final analysis of this mess is complete.
 
Latest report from on the ground.

Still no power in a residential/commercial district three miles north of San Juan.

The 30% power restored seems to be limited to government buildings, (some) hospitals, and ...wait for it ... shopping malls.

Mrs' qg's PT had some nice video her son had sent her of people crowding a shopping mall because it had power ... and the AC to go with that.
 
The repairs made by Whitefish failed.

The failure took place in the same transmission line that had been repaired previously by Whitefish Energy, a Montana firm recently under scrutiny for a $300 million contract to restore power on the island. The deal was later canceled by the Puerto Rico government after being publicly criticized by officials.

The current outage is not tied to the previous work, said Whitefish spokesperson Chris Chiames. "None of the issues reported today with the outage have anything to do with the repairs Whitefish Energy performed."
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Any word on who replaced Whitefish? PREPA always indicated that part of the reason they were chosen was difficulty finding and affording other contractors. I'm curious as to how they're resolving that problem.
 
Civet said:
Any word on who replaced Whitefish? PREPA always indicated that part of the reason they were chosen was difficulty finding and affording other contractors. I'm curious as to how they're resolving that problem.
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The pet Governor had his nose so far up Trump's backside it was nauseating... but that doesn't mean he won't get thrown under the bus.

Or will Sarah inform us it's the ebil Dems fault for complaining, and getting Whitefish sacked?

Or will it be Obama's fault? :rolleyes:
 
TJ Maxx is reported to be continuing to pay all it's employees in PR even though the stores remain closed. Candle in the dark.
 
Jim_MDP said:
The pet Governor had his nose so far up Trump's backside it was nauseating... but that doesn't mean he won't get thrown under the bus.

Or will Sarah inform us it's the ebil Dems fault for complaining, and getting Whitefish sacked?

Or will it be Obama's fault? :rolleyes:
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Hillary is behind the scenes, cold bloodedly making things go bad to try to make the Republicans look bad.

Thermal said:
Forgot to include link: TJX has 29 stores in PR, including TJ Maxx, Marshalls, and Homegoods, and all employees getting paid despite closed stores.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/07/us/tjmaxx-pays-employees-after-hurricanes-trnd/
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Indeed, good for them.
 
Why is Puerto Rico still in the news? I mean, hundreds of people i know have sent truckloads of prayers that way...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
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