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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 26th October 2017, 07:14 PM   #1841
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
So, basically any time it comes down to quantifying something, it's best to avoid it and focus on the gestalt.
Actually, footers would rather focus on anything that allows them to ignore the reality of no bigfoot anything anywhere. Inventing metrics concerning a fuzzy phonied-up monkey movie is as good a red herring as any.
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Old 27th October 2017, 07:50 AM   #1842
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Originally Posted by hiflier on BFF
In retrospect it appears that an averave 6 foot Human male will have a total shouder span of a little over 25% of his height. Patty has a toal shoulder span of 42%!! And that's if she is only 6 foot tall.

Wow, her shoulder width is 42% of her height.

42% seems highly disproportionate for a bipedal hominoid. Yet when I look at Patty I see what appears to be a form of bulky hominoid that is highly proportionate.

What is going on here? Are my eyes deceiving me?
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Old 27th October 2017, 08:06 AM   #1843
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Your eyes can't comprehend the unusual angle of her walk.

Instead focus on how long her arms are.
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Old 27th October 2017, 08:23 AM   #1844
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Wow, her shoulder width is 42% of her height.

42% seems highly disproportionate for a bipedal hominoid. Yet when I look at Patty I see what appears to be a form of bulky hominoid that is highly proportionate.

What is going on here? Are my eyes deceiving me?
Using the average shoulder width ratio means nothing. He needs to measure a few of the people that sit next to me on airplanes, or use the extreme upper values of his data. Plus Bob said the suit had football shoulder pads in it.
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Old 30th October 2017, 12:02 PM   #1845
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http://bigfootforums.com/topic/57919...s-real/?page=4
Quote:
This is worth an all out investigation into the matter because even my somewhat primitive investigation has already shown what should be obvious as far as not being able to fake Patty. It's even more obvious in the stabilized version of the film. Patty's motion compared with Patty's shoulder width truly says it all.

And that's what a new, current, logic and focus should be aimed at. This thread will be a week old tomorrow. So far, no detractors. That says something.
It says that the twelve or thirteen deep thinkers who regularly frequent that establishment are even more clueless than you.
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Old 10th November 2017, 09:22 PM   #1846
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I guess I am way behind on Bigfoot news but I don’t live in a cave. So how is it that Bill Munns moved to Vietnam and became a novelist without me hearing about it?
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:23 PM   #1847
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Originally Posted by hiflier on BFF View Post
Human male will have a total shoulder span of a little over 25% of his height. Patty has a total shoulder span of 42%!!
My shoulder span is 35%!!
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:27 PM   #1848
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Your eyes can't comprehend the unusual angle of her walk.
The figure walks exactly how I would expect a human male to walk.

Quote:
Instead focus on how long her arms are.
Obviously hand extensions. This would certainly explain the unnatural positioning of the hands.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:39 PM   #1849
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Does anyone know what Munns did with his PGF material?
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Old 11th November 2017, 08:14 AM   #1850
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Originally Posted by barehl View Post
The figure walks exactly how I would expect a human male to walk.


Obviously hand extensions. This would certainly explain the unnatural positioning of the hands.
No hand extensions. His hands just fall short of the gloves.
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Old 11th November 2017, 07:57 PM   #1851
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
No hand extensions. His hands just fall short of the gloves.
Yes, if his fingers didn't fill the gloves this could easily extend the costume hands by 4-5 inches. That would probably be enough for the effect we see.
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Old 13th November 2017, 05:53 AM   #1852
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Originally Posted by barehl View Post
The figure walks exactly how I would expect a human male to walk.


Obviously hand extensions. This would certainly explain the unnatural positioning of the hands.
Barehl thinks I was being serious.
LOLZ
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Old 13th November 2017, 08:49 AM   #1853
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The world of Bigfoot is like that old friend you had from years ago; you can not see each other for a decade and when you do finally cross paths, it's like nothing ever changed!
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Old 13th November 2017, 08:53 AM   #1854
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
I've always given Roger Patterson credit for being a "made things happen" kind of guy. With his PGF ending up being way more than just a curious film clip that has far outlasted its presumptive lifespan. He surely wasn't stupid, but I bet he had no serious thoughts its legacy would be so alive and well 50 years later. For all intents and purposes he invented the three-dimensional Bigfoot as we know it with the PGF, he just didn't live long enough to see that.

Only those who attempt the absurd can achieve the impossible.” AE
As much as what Roger did was trend-setting and unique, it also took a plethora of gullible ass-hats to continue the silliness for over 40 years and make the PGF what it is today.
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Old 15th November 2017, 05:04 PM   #1855
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Wow, her shoulder width is 42% of her height.

42% seems highly disproportionate for a bipedal hominoid. Yet when I look at Patty I see what appears to be a form of bulky hominoid that is highly proportionate.

What is going on here? Are my eyes deceiving me?
So happens I have a set of shoulder pads that I scored for nothing at a garage sale, and they have a width of 30 inches. That is 42% of 6ft.
(Drops mic)
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Old 3rd February 2018, 05:38 PM   #1856
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Hi guys. I appreciate what y'all do here. Now, I am 50/50 on the film (which I have never been percentage-wise on the film; I have always been 60-40 or 80/20 or even 100% it being real). But to me personally, even if the film is a hoax, it does not mean there is no Sasquatch. I realize you will all say there is no Bigfoot, and that's fine. But aside from that, one thing I want to throw out there-IF the film is a hoax, does it necessarily have to be Heironimus? Supposing it is someone else in the suit, someone who let Heironimus take the fall, as it were? Could it possibly have been Gimlin in a suit, or someone else close to Patterson and Gimlin? What do you guys think? Would love some feedback on this, and thanks!
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Old 3rd February 2018, 08:03 PM   #1857
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Originally Posted by HBSquatchMay2018 View Post
. . .even if the film is a hoax, it does not mean there is no Sasquatch.
Right. It just means that one more dude faked a bigfoot film.

Originally Posted by HBSquatchMay2018 View Post
. . . IF the film is a hoax, does it necessarily have to be Heironimus?
Nope. There are still some mysteries about the film. For example, we know that Patterson ordered a Philip Morris ape costume but many folks are skeptical that it's that costume we see in the film. More likely Patterson used the costume to help him better design one of his own making, perhaps using pieces of the Morris suit. That makes it likely that Patterson did some testing - and maybe even a dry run - before the Bluff Creek film was made. It could be that Heironimus did wear an ape suit for Patterson but that his film wasn't the one that was released. This would help explain some discrepancies in Heironimus' account - although so, of course, would be faulty memories decades later.

Note that Patterson is alleged to have been in a furry suit too, and that he was even evidently attacked by a dog while "practicing" in it. According to some analyses of the film, the subject could actually be much shorter than 6 feet tall, raising the possibility that it was the 5'3" Roger and not the 6'3" Bob H in the suit we see in the film.

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Old 3rd February 2018, 10:00 PM   #1858
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Originally Posted by HBSquatchMay2018 View Post
Hi guys. I appreciate what y'all do here. Now, I am 50/50 on the film (which I have never been percentage-wise on the film; I have always been 60-40 or 80/20 or even 100% it being real). But to me personally, even if the film is a hoax, it does not mean there is no Sasquatch. I realize you will all say there is no Bigfoot, and that's fine. But aside from that, one thing I want to throw out there-IF the film is a hoax, does it necessarily have to be Heironimus? Supposing it is someone else in the suit, someone who let Heironimus take the fall, as it were? Could it possibly have been Gimlin in a suit, or someone else close to Patterson and Gimlin? What do you guys think? Would love some feedback on this, and thanks!
Greetings. I'm pretty sure I know of who you are. I bet if I told you there's a whole bunch of reading (and searching) you should do before asking those types of questions you'd just think I was being rude. The simple answer is there's no unanimity here as to who it was, only that it was somebody, potentially BH. We're not sure exactly how and when it was produced either, just that the timelines and recollections of events from all those involved don't add up and never did. Nor do we totally agree how "honest" Bob Gimlin is/has been. Some think he's been lying through his teeth since day one, me included.

Clearly the film is a hoax and thusly so is the beast. It's not a random coincidence that when you take away the PGF from the Bigfoot equation there's no other piece of 'evidence' in any form that even hints such a beast could exist now or ever. Not a body, not an arm, not a turd, nor a hide nor hair. Not another clear film or video nor a good picture nor an affidavit signed with an X. Hence a big reason why "science" won't touch it. There's literally nothing for the Kardashians science to touch. As it's proven over and over again daily, Bigfoot is only in the minds of its believers.

Even subtracting the last 500,000 years, seems simple reasoning would tell you the last 50 years is more than enough time for just one piece of some kind of real empirical evidence to have surfaced for such a top tier type of species. The impossibility is in our never having found any.

The PGF is actually a great lesson on the power-of-suggestion. And so cleverly combined with our innate fascination with monsters and it was (in hindsight) a can't miss. The genius of it may be in his outplaying the obviousness of it. The one answer we'll likely never know is did Patterson originally intend the film to be simply part of the bigger film he was making about "America's Abominable Snowman", with no intention of it to be presented as anything other than a re-creation within that film, but that it unexpectedly turned out to be a pretty convincing little slice on its own? I mean, if you're making a general interest type movie about a supposed beast nobody's ever filmed (and you know never will), what's the absolute single best thing that could happen? To somehow get film footage of the "real" beast. Ta da!
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Old 3rd February 2018, 11:12 PM   #1859
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Originally Posted by HBSquatchMay2018 View Post
Hi guys. I appreciate what y'all do here. Now, I am 50/50 on the film (which I have never been percentage-wise on the film; I have always been 60-40 or 80/20 or even 100% it being real). But to me personally, even if the film is a hoax, it does not mean there is no Sasquatch. I realize you will all say there is no Bigfoot, and that's fine. But aside from that, one thing I want to throw out there-IF the film is a hoax, does it necessarily have to be Heironimus? Supposing it is someone else in the suit, someone who let Heironimus take the fall, as it were? Could it possibly have been Gimlin in a suit, or someone else close to Patterson and Gimlin? What do you guys think? Would love some feedback on this, and thanks!

So, what evidence is out there that gives you 50% confidence that bigfeets are real?
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Old 3rd February 2018, 11:34 PM   #1860
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My 1998 sighting, which I already know you are going to tear apart. Was driving home on Highway 61 3 miles south of Shaw, Mississippi, 1:15 A.M. spotted something walking across the highway 150 yards away. Reached the point where it was crossing the road, spotted a large, white, hairy creature with its back to me (it never looked at me). Saw massive musculature in its upper back as I passed it. Believe it or not, I did try to rationalize it for about a month afterwards, but then realized that it was indeed a large hairy hominoid. I was not thinking Bigfoot when I saw it, so that cannot explain what I saw in that context. I know that I cannot prove to anyone here what I saw and am not trying to. I do think I saw a Bigfoot, I do not BELIEVE I saw one. Can I prove it? No. I am 50/50 on the film but 100 on the reality of the creature despite the skepticism.
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Old 4th February 2018, 07:52 AM   #1861
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The BFRO gave you a Class A listing for your report, good job! Bolivar County.
If we are going to continue this discussion let’s move it to a different thread.
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Old 4th February 2018, 08:16 AM   #1862
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HB,
I'd suggest you find a vid of PGF that runs at the most likely film speed it was filmed at. I can't remember what that was, but I'm sure someone here does. That was enlightening for me.

Also if you take Roger at his word that he was making a Bigfoot movie...you gotta assume he had a costume to make that movie....right? Sooooo why didn't he produce that costume upon presentation of the film "Hey look at this silly costume I was going to use but got lucky and filmed the real thing" or something like that? The answer is obvious.

I'll assume you've considered Patterson's background, Patty's perfect boobs and feet despite a lifetime outdoors and the countless other real evidence presented that should get you to 100% confidence that Patty's a dude in a crappy suit.

There's no need to "tear" your story apart there are only a few possibilities for all Bigfoot sightings misidentification, fabrication would be the most likely.

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Old 4th February 2018, 03:33 PM   #1863
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Originally Posted by HBSquatchMay2018 View Post
Hi guys. I appreciate what y'all do here. Now, I am 50/50 on the film (which I have never been percentage-wise on the film; I have always been 60-40 or 80/20 or even 100% it being real). But to me personally, even if the film is a hoax, it does not mean there is no Sasquatch. I realize you will all say there is no Bigfoot, and that's fine. But aside from that, one thing I want to throw out there-IF the film is a hoax, does it necessarily have to be Heironimus? Supposing it is someone else in the suit, someone who let Heironimus take the fall, as it were? Could it possibly have been Gimlin in a suit, or someone else close to Patterson and Gimlin? What do you guys think? Would love some feedback on this, and thanks!


Does not have to be BH. He's the most likely candidate, but it could have been someone else. Gimlin is a strong contender. I'm curious about your shifting view on the authenticity of the PGF. What factors have led you to go from around 100% etc to 50%? Something must be bothering you about it. What has prompted some doubt? The film itself? The Patty figure/costume? The story of the filming and post-filming? Something else?
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Old 4th February 2018, 09:00 PM   #1864
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Originally Posted by captain koolaid View Post
Does not have to be BH. He's the most likely candidate, but it could have been someone else. Gimlin is a strong contender. I'm curious about your shifting view on the authenticity of the PGF. What factors have led you to go from around 100% etc to 50%? Something must be bothering you about it. What has prompted some doubt? The film itself? The Patty figure/costume? The story of the filming and post-filming? Something else?
I guess it was the stories not jibing. Post-filming more specifically. There are some revealing things in Michael McLeod's book Anatomy of a Beast referring to the timeline, more specifically that Patterson and Gimlin were supposed to have not arrived in Willow Creek after the filming until sometime that evening, when Al Hodgson told McLeod that they showed up in the afternoon, which throws their timeline into a complete tailspin.
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Old 4th February 2018, 10:03 PM   #1865
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Originally Posted by HBSquatchMay2018 View Post
I guess it was the stories not jibing. Post-filming more specifically. There are some revealing things in Michael McLeod's book Anatomy of a Beast referring to the timeline, more specifically that Patterson and Gimlin were supposed to have not arrived in Willow Creek after the filming until sometime that evening, when Al Hodgson told McLeod that they showed up in the afternoon, which throws their timeline into a complete tailspin.

Ah... the timeline. Dodgy as hell. The whole affair is full of contradictions and dubious aspects. One does not have to see an obvious man in a suit to conclude a hoax. The story does not add up. Their actions, if it were authentic, do not make sense. They're making things up and not behaving like they had filmed a real bigfoot. Why? If they had done what they say they did, why the need for fabrications/lies? Why act like it is a hoax if you had just nailed footage of monumental importance? Their stories and actions (particularly afterwards) do not speak of a real event. They spell hoax.
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Old 5th February 2018, 06:11 AM   #1866
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The went back to camp, retrieved the plaster, cast the tracks, and also followed the beast that 'walked just like you and me', for two miles, one way into the woods.
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Old 5th February 2018, 02:02 PM   #1867
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
The went back to camp, retrieved the plaster, cast the tracks, and also followed the beast that 'walked just like you and me', for two miles, one way into the woods.
Yeah, it was a little under two miles to get to the truck for the plaster.

Then they followed Patty for 3-3.5 miles, or not far, depending on which version you read. Roger says it was 3 miles.

They still made it to the airport in time.

Bob Gimlin took the movie camera and went off to film tracks and try to find another bigfoot, while Roger got his horse and packs together. Yes, Bob Gimlin took the camera and went off to film after the horses were recovered and the camera was reloaded.

Bob pretends today that he doesn't know one end of a K-100 from the other, but Roger reloaded the camera for Bob to use.

Then it rained like hell that night, flooding the place, washing out the roads, and threatening to trap them, but somehow the tracks stayed nearly perfect, despite only being covered with bark.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 5th February 2018, 04:52 PM   #1868
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Deja vu all over again...
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Old 5th February 2018, 07:23 PM   #1869
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Deja vu all over again...
You knew that's where it was going. Again.
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Old 6th February 2018, 05:26 AM   #1870
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by HBSquatchMay2018 View Post
My 1998 sighting, which I already know you are going to tear apart. Was driving home on Highway 61 3 miles south of Shaw, Mississippi, 1:15 A.M. spotted something walking across the highway 150 yards away.
About 3 miles south of Shaw, Mississippi is here. It doesn't look to me like there's anywhere near enough wooded areas there for any hominid to live, let alone a very large one that nobody has seen.

Leaving aside your belief in what you saw, does it seem to you like there are enough woods around there for a hominid to survive?
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Old 6th February 2018, 11:03 AM   #1871
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Leaving aside your belief in what you saw, does it seem to you like there are enough woods around there for a hominid to survive?
Well it's dark there at night, so those bigfoots can go wherever they like.
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Old 6th February 2018, 11:05 AM   #1872
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Yeah, it was a little under two miles to get to the truck for the plaster.

Then they followed Patty for 3-3.5 miles, or not far, depending on which version you read. Roger says it was 3 miles.
Do they claim that all this back and forth was on horseback or on foot?
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Old 6th February 2018, 11:09 AM   #1873
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
Does anyone know what Munns did with his PGF material?
What have I missed? Has Munns changed his tune, or given up on the whole PGF thing, or what?
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Old 6th February 2018, 01:52 PM   #1874
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Do they claim that all this back and forth was on horseback or on foot?
Horseback.

Given the terrain, they couldn't have gone very fast to get the plaster. Remember, they took a short cut "over the hill" that was a little less than the 2 miles by road, they did not use the logging road to go get the plaster.

And, you don't go very fast when tracking a beastie through the woods, either.

In the 67 radio interview, Bob says they had to chase the spooked horses up and down the road for a little while before finally catching them. So that's more time lost.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th February 2018, 01:58 PM   #1875
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Deja vu all over again...
Oh yeah...

But if that's what it takes, I'll just keep pointing out that Roger said his horse fell and landed on him bending a stirrup, and Bob said that Roger's horse never fell...
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th February 2018, 02:24 PM   #1876
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I still laugh at Munns' colossal blunder of picking the wrong side. There's a reason Munns hasn't achieved the fame and fortune he pretends he's entitled to, decisions like that.

From what I can gather he was so offended that that nobody Roger Patterson had even dared try to outwit guys like him (costumers?) that he picked the other side solely to spite the dead man. Put another way, a debate amongst normal people about the PGF is "there's no way that's a monkey because we would surely know about it already." The debate Munns had in his head (apparently) was "there's no way that's a costume because Roger Patterson was a hack."

Proof of that is in his final conflicted conclusion about the PGF that said 'maybe there is no Bigfoot, but that's no man in a suit'. Really? So no matter the cost of one's character and credibility, Roger Patterson isn't gonna outsmart Bill Munns if Bill Munns has anything to say about it. Too bad for him he had too much to say about it and got even more than outsmarted, he got owned by a dead guy. So who was the hack?
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Old 6th February 2018, 02:33 PM   #1877
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
raising the possibility that it was the 5'3" Roger and not the 6'3" Bob H in the suit we see in the film.
That's not Heironimus' height. He would have been 6 foot and one half inch. That is 72.5".
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Old 6th February 2018, 02:51 PM   #1878
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
What have I missed? Has Munns changed his tune, or given up on the whole PGF thing, or what?
I don't know where Munns is or what he is doing or anything. But maybe some people here have real information...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1744

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1846
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Old 6th February 2018, 03:24 PM   #1879
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Oh yeah...

But if that's what it takes, I'll just keep pointing out that Roger said his horse fell and landed on him bending a stirrup, and Bob said that Roger's horse never fell...
And as that's contradiction's long running corollary, one can't bend a stirrup by his horse falling on him. As in it being essentially a physical impossibility. Of course in theory metal stirrups could bend, but in 1968 they weren't using metal stirrups on their western saddles, they had already bent wood (of all things) stirrups. A closer look at any of the clear video of P & G on their horses should show what stirrups they used. Those wood stirrups are basically bullet proof. A fully shod 1,500# horse could bounce up and down on just one of them with all four hooves at once and probably never affect it.

Proving your point, it's just a stupid detail RP made up that he thought gave it credibility (i.e. why would they say a stirrup bent if it didn't actually happen and who would really question it if it didn't) that he could never take back. Gimlin was right, there was no horse rearing or falling or bending going on, but their story had to have some kind of unique, definitive detail and Bob definitely wasn't hired on as creative director.
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Old 6th February 2018, 05:16 PM   #1880
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
And as that's contradiction's long running corollary, one can't bend a stirrup by his horse falling on him. As in it being essentially a physical impossibility. Of course in theory metal stirrups could bend, but in 1968 they weren't using metal stirrups on their western saddles, they had already bent wood (of all things) stirrups. A closer look at any of the clear video of P & G on their horses should show what stirrups they used. Those wood stirrups are basically bullet proof. A fully shod 1,500# horse could bounce up and down on just one of them with all four hooves at once and probably never affect it.

Proving your point, it's just a stupid detail RP made up that he thought gave it credibility (i.e. why would they say a stirrup bent if it didn't actually happen and who would really question it if it didn't) that he could never take back. Gimlin was right, there was no horse rearing or falling or bending going on, but their story had to have some kind of unique, definitive detail and Bob definitely wasn't hired on as creative director.

You know, I'm willing to grant Patterson some leeway in goosing up the story, even if it were real. After all, he was a bit of ******** artist and a shameless self promoter. However, taken all together, the weight of the fabrications, the fanciful narrative, the bewildering actions, the contradictions and total WTF-ery? post filming combine to overwhelm any slack one could grant to RP as a storyteller. An embellishment or two? Maybe, but I don't think so. RP would have have known what he had in the bag and he wouldn't care at that point about anything else. Why would he need to? But again... maybe. However in this case, it's not just a couple of lies. It's a massive pile of porkies. He was full of it.
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