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1st December 2017, 07:40 PM | #281 |
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If it's a ship over the horizon, don't fire at it. If it's a helicopter at 35 miles high enough, fire at it. It's not only for ships. Geeze.
And I'm not a Captain. Commander, USN reserves, retired. You can use a missile for multiple purposes. And your own article you linked to described Over The Horizon targeting. Cherry pick much? |
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1st December 2017, 08:03 PM | #282 |
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Gravity has been proven in the laboratory. Several times with the Cavendish Experiment
(Awaiting rebuttal referring to crank physicist who nonetheless believes Earth is a globe) Also proven more recently with lead blocks and an intererometer. And you never did really do away with the very visible curve of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain, your very Un-Christian self-declared victory notwithstanding. Maybe it's time for you to take up Calvin and his doctrine of Accommodation. |
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1st December 2017, 08:12 PM | #283 |
Penultimate Amazing
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You do realise that this...
contradicts this... See according to you, the gas has to reach an Equilibrium state, so ergo the pressure at the top must be the same as the pressure at the bottom, you can't have pressure decreasing with altitude, otherwise there is nothing stopping that continual decreasing in pressure from reaching 10-17 Torr. You can't advocate for both a system with a graduated pressure different dependant on altitude and one that flows from high pressure to low pressure and reaches equilibrium. They can't exist at the same time. |
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It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
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1st December 2017, 08:21 PM | #284 |
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Gravity is a pseudo force created by mass bending space in a fourth dimension.
Newton measured the pseudo-force and because it acts as a force for all purposes considered it a force. Similarly for many purposes we consider Centrifugal Force a force, but it's not a real force either, it's created by the inertia of an object resisting rotational acceleration. Einstein recognised it for what it was, a curvature in space/time that cause objects to appear to change their direction as they pass through the area of curved space. In reality they are still following Newton's laws of motions and travelling in a straight line, it's just that they are following that straight line through curved space/time. |
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It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
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1st December 2017, 09:06 PM | #285 |
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I am troubled by these results Daniel. I am new to flat earthery but my faith is waning. These results suggest that gravity and matter are linked. The more matter the more gravity and at some point something as large as the flat earth would begin to self assemble in to something approaching a sphere. What material is the flat earth made of that allows it resist the force of gravity?
The equation above is Newton's gravity equation and it is essentially what the Cavendish experiments seem to confirm. What is intriguing here is that Newton used mathematics including the equation above to predict the motion of the planets throughout their orbits. That certainly suggests there might be something to the idea that Newton was right about gravity. Of course, if flat earth theory makes testable predictions that better explain the nature of the Earth it is time to give up on Newton and all the astronomers and accept flat earth theory. |
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1st December 2017, 09:15 PM | #286 |
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This does seem to be a problem for the theory that a container is necessary for gas to have pressure, Daniel. The idea the round earthers have in their head is that the atmospheric pressure gradually tails off as the altitude increases until the gases at the top of the atmosphere can escape only very slowly because the individual molecules only rarely have enough velocity to escape earth's gravity. No container necessary unless you count the top of the atmosphere as the lid of the container, but beware of this because there is not a boundary where the atmosphere drops from very low pressure to zero. It just keeps falling until someplace in interstellar space where the pressure is extremely low..
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The way of truth is along the path of intellectual sincerity. -- Henry S. Pritchett Perfection is the enemy of good enough -- Russian proverb |
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2nd December 2017, 02:06 AM | #287 |
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And, by the way, Norway has never had an indigenous tank design.
Dave |
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2nd December 2017, 03:38 AM | #288 |
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2nd December 2017, 03:57 AM | #289 |
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The way of truth is along the path of intellectual sincerity. -- Henry S. Pritchett Perfection is the enemy of good enough -- Russian proverb |
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2nd December 2017, 06:02 AM | #290 |
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2nd December 2017, 08:40 AM | #291 |
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I don't get the whole air pressure thing.
If Earth was a disc and the pseudo-force we experience as gravity was produced by constant acceleration, than air would still have weight. So in a column of air pressure at the bottom would HAVE TO BE larger than higher up, there's after all more air weighing down on it. The list of organizations and groups of people who are NOT in on the conspiracy would probably be shorter. My own question: What do flaterists say is the cause of what Round Earthers call Cosmic Rays? |
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2nd December 2017, 10:59 AM | #292 |
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2nd December 2017, 11:04 AM | #293 |
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2nd December 2017, 11:05 AM | #294 |
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2nd December 2017, 11:09 AM | #295 |
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2nd December 2017, 11:14 AM | #296 |
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Well it has nothing to do with "My Argument". Would you like me to post "My Argument" again since you apparently missed it?
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Factually Incorrect: 1. Which 'gravity'... Einstienian or Newtonian ?? a. Is gravity a Force? b. Is 'gravity' a Scientific Law or Scientific Theory? c. What is the CAUSE of 'gravity'...? 2. Oh Never Mind... "A GAS is a sample of matter that conforms to the shape of a CONTAINER in which it is held and acquires a uniform density inside the CONTAINER, EVEN IN THE PRESENCE OF GRAVITY and regardless of the amount of substance in the CONTAINER. If not confined to a CONTAINER, gaseous matter, also known as vapor, WILL DISPERSE INTO SPACE." http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/gas You can confirm this yourself. Go out and depress the pin on your Tricycle Tire and tell us what happens.
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1. Well the compelling factor in the matter is not whether there's an "Explanation"; it's whether that "Explanation" is COHERENT and/or Scientifically Viable. 2. What's the "Explanation" of a Spherical Earth that is COHERENT and/or Scientifically Viable that has you adhering to it in the First Place...? regards |
2nd December 2017, 11:20 AM | #297 |
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Well the Flat (or Sphere) Earth or any other shape, isn't "Science" to begin with. Do you need me to explain why (Again)?? Isn't it telling... that I would even need to?
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The same way I account for Invisible 3 Toed Gnomes, I don't. 'gravity' what's that? THEN: Which 'gravity'... Einstienian or Newtonian ?? a. Is gravity a Force? b. Is 'gravity' a Scientific Law or Scientific Theory? c. What is the CAUSE of 'gravity'...? regards |
2nd December 2017, 11:25 AM | #298 |
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Answering a question with further questions is not really answering.
You also conveniently forgot to answer my second question: Is the sun a sphere? |
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2nd December 2017, 11:25 AM | #299 |
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For Contingent Necessary Facts?? It's called "Logic". Do you need to post a link explaining Necessary and Sufficient Conditions?
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I'm saying that since we have Atmospheric Pressure (Gas Pressure)...for it to "EXIST"... then we must have a Container to begin with so to afford that Condition (Gas Pressure). regards |
2nd December 2017, 11:26 AM | #300 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Stop feeding him. Anyone who asks 'gravity, what's that?' is winding you all up.
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2nd December 2017, 11:28 AM | #301 |
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2nd December 2017, 11:31 AM | #302 |
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Straw Man Fallacy: I don't and never had a 'model'. Why? Well... 'models' are demonstrable Pseudo-Science: Please show "models" in the Scientific Method...? (and not "Ball-Stick" Airplane 'Models' Either !!! lol)...? "A model is used for situations when it is known that the hypothesis has a LIMITATION ON IT'S VALIDITY." https://www.thoughtco.com/hypothesis...nd-law-2699066 Allow me to translate: "Pseudo-Science"...There is no such animal as a Scientific Hypothesis with 'limited validity' it's tantamount to a woman being 'A LITTLE' PREGNANT !! REAL Scientific Hypotheses are either CONFIRMED or INVALIDATED, PERIOD...End of Story!! Furthermore, Scientific Hypotheses do not exist in PERPETUITY or wait for more DATA !!! 'Data' comes FROM Experiments --- (Hypothesis TESTS). A "Model" is conjured when the 'alleged' Hypothesis is UN-TESTABLE!!! That means, there never was an 'ACTUAL' Scientific Hypothesis to begin with !! regards |
2nd December 2017, 11:33 AM | #303 |
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2nd December 2017, 11:36 AM | #304 |
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Gravity explains the shape and atmosphere on Earth. It's been verified through experiment. The fact you don't believe it is not my problem.
One important fact, "flat earth" has never be verified and there are no images to support the belief, yet thousands of images prove it wrong. |
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2nd December 2017, 11:41 AM | #305 |
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Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked |
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2nd December 2017, 11:43 AM | #306 |
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Factually Incorrect: 1. Common Experience. 2. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. 3. The Definition... "The "PRESSURE OF A GAS" is the force that the gas exerts on the WALLS OF IT'S CONTAINER". http://chemistry.elmhurst.edu/vchemb...0pressure.html and... "Kinetic Molecular Theory Explanation of Boyle's Law... Observations about pressure may be explained using the following ideas. The rapid motion and collisions of molecules with the WALLS OF THE CONTAINER causes PRESSURE (force on a unit area). Pressure is proportional to the number of molecular collisions and the force of the collisions in a particular area. The more collisions of GAS MOLECULES with THE WALLS, the higher the PRESSURE." http://chemistry.elmhurst.edu/vchemb...0pressure.html
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1. False Equivalence Fallacy: AGAIN... Water (Liquid) is NOT a Gas even though both are arbitrarily classified as Fluids. 2. You still need a container for water to have... Water Pressure. regards |
2nd December 2017, 11:44 AM | #307 |
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2nd December 2017, 11:44 AM | #308 |
Now. Do it now.
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Declination is a thing. Pass it on to our science-denying interlocutor, who obviously needs a lot of help.....
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2nd December 2017, 11:48 AM | #309 |
Muse
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So "Na'ahh" defense, eh? Riveting!
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Really? "Kinetic Molecular Theory Explanation of Boyle's Law... Observations about pressure may be explained using the following ideas. The rapid motion and collisions of molecules with the WALLS OF THE CONTAINER causes PRESSURE (force on a unit area). Pressure is proportional to the number of molecular collisions and the force of the collisions in a particular area. The more collisions of GAS MOLECULES with THE WALLS, the higher the PRESSURE." http://chemistry.elmhurst.edu/vchemb...0pressure.html It's clearly saying "You're" the crackpot. regards and Thanks! |
2nd December 2017, 12:00 PM | #310 |
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2nd December 2017, 12:01 PM | #311 |
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It's Pathetically Woeful that I even have to provide a link to a topic that an Incoherent 2nd Grader knows as Prima Facie Apodictic and can reconcile in less than a Planck Time. Dont'cha Think??
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Experience, Millions of Times... Without Exception.
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Are ya kiddin me sir? There's a Special Category that will stare: Self-Evident, Scientifically Validated, Indubitable Prima Facie Truths in the Face and DENY THEM. It's called Religious Zealotry. ps. Thanks for the "kids-fun-science". regards |
2nd December 2017, 12:16 PM | #312 |
Muse
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Begging The Question Fallacy: "over the horizon"...is what you're attempting to prove.
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Straw Man (Fallacy): I didn't say it was only for ships. jeez
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And you still can't reconcile this? It indicts you even more!!! ps. US Army (retired)... Land Lover
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Did I say otherwise?
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Did I CITE it? SEE Multiple Explanations to this fiasco in previous posts. So you call CITATIONS "Cherry Picking" ?? ALL (52) CITATIONS here, according to your logic, MUST BE "Cherry Picked"... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3557028/ Because they didn't deal with "ALL" the SUBJECT MATTER in each REFERENCE! Downright Hilarious Sir!! Thanks oy vey |
2nd December 2017, 12:25 PM | #313 |
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Do you still not cotton to the difference between "quoting" something and "citing" something?
Oh dear. You see when you "quote" something your provide a "cite" for it, which is a place where people can see on their own whether the "cite" supports the "quote." In this case you have repeatedly "cited" to sources that specifically destroy your flat earth claims. |
2nd December 2017, 12:36 PM | #314 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Since you've already postulated a horizon, -1
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Outright falsehood and redefinition of "Cite". -10
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Your score on this examination is -28 points |
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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2nd December 2017, 12:43 PM | #315 |
Muse
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Really? OK... 1. Which 'gravity'... Einstienian or Newtonian ?? a. Is gravity a Force? b. Is 'gravity' a Scientific Law or Scientific Theory? c. What is the CAUSE of 'gravity'...? 2. Then (for both Cavendish and lead blocks and an inter"F"erometer') ... a. What Phenomenon was Observed...? b. Post the Formal Scientific Hypothesis then EXPERIMENT that validates your claim...? c. Highlight the "Independent Variable" that was used in the TEST...? d. Post the Null Hypothesis that was Rejected/Falsified...?
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Oh yes, I surely did. Here it is again... The total distance of these power lines over Lake Pontchartrain is 15.9 Miles. Per Soundly: Viewer Height was between 35 - 50 Feet, so let's say 40 Feet. The distance between each Pylon is .18 Miles. (~88 Pylons) I counted ~ 40 Pylons in Soundly's now infamous "P-900" shot...roughly 7 Miles, with some significant curvature. Louisiana Length (North/South = 379 Miles) If these Pics/Video are TRUE; THEN, we MUST LIVE on... "PLANET LOUISIANA" !! Furthermore, according to your 'Spinning Ball' Narrative, every point along a Tangent from your feet falls away from you in every direction at 8" per mile2. The horizon at 7 Miles from 90 degrees --- through Zero --- to 270 degrees is 21.5 MILES. So you're saying that we see significant curvature on the Z Axis....which is at 7 Miles BUT along the X Axis...which is 21.5 MILES: It's FLAT, No Curvature ??? So to remain "COHERENT" with Soundly's Z-Axis, the X-Axis should look like this... http://imgur.com/iWg9vSZ Do you need more Gasoline with your Matches? Moreover, I've been told for about 2 years now that there is no way to see curvature from anything less than (65,000 Feet - 12,000 Miles, and everything in-between ) THEN... Soundly (smh) shows it from 35 Feet!! Let's take a look at these pics from Lake Ponchartrain... and ... ^^^ Soundly's pic. What's going on here between these 2 Pics? regards |
2nd December 2017, 12:53 PM | #316 |
Muse
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It doesn't, You're Confused... and continue with a Red Herring Fallacy. Can you state "My Argument" please...?
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Begging The Question Fallacy (467th Time). Where'd you get Atmospheric Pressure without a Container, FIRST...? Ya see, before we can discuss "Varying Gas Pressure" we have to Iron Out where we got "Gas Pressure" FIRST. Follow? (It's Rhetorical at this point)
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Well the only thing I'm "advocating" for at the moment, ya know -- "My Argument" is that you can't have Gas Pressure Without a Container. Let me know when you're ready to discuss the ACTUAL Argument, mmm k? regards |
2nd December 2017, 12:58 PM | #317 |
Devilish Dictionarian
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2nd December 2017, 01:24 PM | #318 |
Devilish Dictionarian
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Your requests are unnecessary and irrelevant. Gravity has been shown to exist via different experiments. Mt. Everest exists, my theories of how it got there don't have a bearing on that fact. Your math is guesswork and apparently supposition as it is unreferenced, and does not negate the fact that a curve is shown. The first picture has no traceability provided nor anything showing it's exact location and time. There is nothing to indicate they are identical points of view under identical circumstances. |
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2nd December 2017, 01:28 PM | #319 |
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2nd December 2017, 01:33 PM | #320 |
Muse
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What was your "FAITH" based on...?
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What "Results"...?
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Ahhh, No it's Not. This is Newton's Equation... Fg ∝ m1M2/d2
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Factually Incorrect: 1. Equations are "Descriptions"; whereas, Experiments provide "Explanations". So your appeal is Non-Sequitur Fallacy. 2. Your 'scientific community' doesn't follow "Newtonian gravity" ... "...Einstein created his General Theory of Relativity— which provides OUR MODERN UNDERSTANDING of gravity —with the express purpose of expunging nonlocality from physics. Isaac Newton's gravity acted at a distance, as if by magic, and general relativity snapped the wand in two by showing that the curvature of spacetime, and NOT AN INVISIBLE FORCE, gives rise to gravitational attraction." Musser George: How Einstein Revealed the Universe's Strange "Nonlocality"; Scientific American, November 2015. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...e-nonlocality/ Please Reconcile...?
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1. Mathematics isn't "Science". 2. Equations don't make "Scientific Predictions". Watch... Please Define: 1. "Scientific Prediction"...? 2. "POST"- diction...? 3. Jeanne Dixon/Jimmy The Greek/Carnival Tent "Prediction"...? 4. Cyclic Repeat - diction...? Now Juxtapose the Characteristics of each and place Your "Equation Prediction" trainwreck in the appropriate category...? 3. Begging the Question Fallacy (x2): 'planets' and 'orbits'.
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So much so that your 'scientific community' (as if) doesn't follow it!
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Now I posted a retort to this Nonsensical Buffoonery a number of times in this thread but you still can't pull yourself away from 'The Narrative' can ya?? The Flat Earth (or Sphere) isn't "Science" to begin with. Ergo...there is no Flat Earth (or Globe Earth) 'theory". Read this real slow about 5 times, mmm K?? ... The sine qua non of "Science" is The Scientific Method. The sine qua non of The Scientific Method is "Experiments" (Hypothesis Tests). The sine qua non of Experiments is "Hypothesis". "The Scientific Method is Hypothesis-Driven;" http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~pyo22/s...ypothesis.html A Scientific Hypothesis is your Experiment Statement; it expresses a TESTABLE proposed CAUSE and EFFECT Relationship - (The Phenomena that was Observed in Step 1) . It's a classic: "If" this "Then" that, motif. "A Scientific Hypothesis is based on CAUSE-EFFECT reasoning. A scientific hypothesis does not merely state X and Y may be related, but EXPLAINS WHY they are related. Loehle, C: Becoming a Successful Scientist -- Strategic Thinking for Scientific Discovery; Cambridge University Press, p. 57, 2010 Because Experiments (Hypothesis Tests) ONLY adjudicate 'Cause and Effect'--- How/Why questions. Whatever SHAPE something is (Flat, Sphere, or Spinning/Not Spinning ect)...is a "WHAT/IS" question; it's tantamount to asking: How/Why is a Breadbox Rectangular, True or False?? i.e., You can NEVER formulate a Viable Alternative Hypothesis; Ergo...you can NEVER formulate a Viable Null Hypothesis; Ergo...This isn't "Science"!! Ergo... by you merely claiming/contemplating this, unequivocally demonstrates that you wouldn't know what ACTUAL "Science" was if it landed on your head, spun around, and WHISTLED DIXIE!!!!! You just EXPOSED yourself and would "FAIL" 5th Grade General Science. Thanks for Illustrating, couldn't have done it without'cha
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It was "TIME" about 100 Years ago... "First I want to tell you what goes WRONG with Newtonian Mechanics...the double-slit experiment is a problem; that's what put's THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR NEWTONIAN PHYSICS." Ramamurti Shankar; Professor of Physics, Yale. Quantum Mechanics II: (3:18 minute mark) So we have a Double Slit Experiment with a "Newtonian Particle"--- an Electron. We close one slit and fire a Bevy of Electrons and we get 10 hits @ Point A. We close that slit and open the other slit and fire a bevy of Electrons and we get 8 hits @ Point A. The "Newtonian Prediction" would be if we fired the same bevy of Electrons with both slits open we MUST GET 18 hits @ Point A. Well ... We Get A Big Fat ZERO !! And what does that mean? Well... "That is the End of Newtonian Physics." Ramamurti Shankar; Professor of Physics, Yale. Quantum Mechanics II http://openmedia.yale.edu/projects/i...nscript20.html
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Ass'tronomy isn't "Science" either. Crocheting is more Scientific... Why?? Well Ass'tronomers inherently can't follow 'The Scientific Method'... "SCIENCE" !!!! Watch... Post One Formal Scientific Hypothesis EVER constructed in the entire history of ASStronomy...? OR... Show how you can have "Science" without Scientific Hypotheses...? Ya see, AGAIN... The sine qua non of "Science" is The Scientific Method. The sine qua non of The Scientific Method is "Experiments" (Hypothesis Tests). The sine qua non of Experiments is "Hypothesis". "The Scientific Method is Hypothesis-Driven;" http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~pyo22/s...ypothesis.html "If it doesn't agree with EXPERIMENT, it's WRONG. In that simple statement is the KEY to SCIENCE". Richard Feynman (Nobel Prize, Physics); The Essence Of Science In 60 Seconds. "The Final Arbiter of TRUTH in 'Science' is EXPERIMENT!!" Lewars, EG: Computational Chemistry -- Introduction to the theory and application of Molecular and Quantum Mechanics; Third Edition 2016, p. 5. "The scientific method REQUIRES that an hypothesis be ruled out or modified if its predictions are clearly and repeatedly incompatible with EXPERIMENTAL TESTS. Further, no matter how elegant a theory is, its predictions must agree with EXPERIMENTAL RESULTS if we are to believe that it is a VALID description of nature. In physics, as in every experimental science, "EXPERIMENT is Supreme" and EXPERIMENTAL VERIFICATION of hypothetical predictions is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY." http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/ph...appendixe.html “EXPERIMENT is the ONLY means of knowledge at our disposal. Everything else is POETRY, IMAGINATION.” Max Planck (Nobel Prize, Physics), Quoted in; Atkins P.W.,: Molecular Quantum Mechanics; Oxford University Press, 1983 Uh Ohh... "Unlike the other sciences, astronomy is ENTIRELY OBSERVATIONAL. You CANNOT run EXPERIMENTS on things. You cannot manipulate the objects to see how they work." http://www.astronomynotes.com/starprop/s2.htm So, Crocheting is more "Scientific" than Ass'tronomy. It's nothing but Poetry and IMAGINATION. regards |
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