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Tags bigfoot , jeffrey meldrum

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Old 2nd December 2017, 03:31 PM   #2841
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
This, the part at the end really galls me:



It's complete ************.
Countless biological surveys to document the faunal assemblages of mammals within the purported range of the Sasquatch have been conducted "by experienced wildlife biologists." Not one bigfoot seen.
Bigfootery has always promoted falsehoods. It in fact could not exist without them.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 10:44 PM   #2842
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Yep, there would be no bigfootery without bad faith. Finding "dog ate it" excuses for the absence of bigfoot has always been an important part of the game.

Last edited by Castro; 2nd December 2017 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 6th December 2017, 08:05 PM   #2843
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So of course I posted a rebuttal to the editor on the Capeia site. It's standard stuff.

The interesting thing, however, is that the three main points raised in the editorial had so many assumptions wrapped within them. Whether the Gish Gallop is intentional or not, it is as rampant in that editorial as we've come to expect from Meldrum's own writing. Even my most cursory response to the 3 main points necessitated 15 "well, actually"s from me.

For example, check out this nugget buried within the first point: "As it stands, the P-G footage has never been debunked on the basis of objective reasoning and we deem it unfair to Mr. Patterson (who died of leukemia in 1972), and also to Mr. Gimlin, to accuse them of fraudulent behavior or lying without providing any specific evidence to support this accusation."

Like Meldrum's own, their case rests on the PGF. No one has debunked the PGF, so bigfoots must be real. That means they must leave footprints (but only the sooper-dooper experts like Meldrum can spot the real ones). The burden of proof is shifted away from the person making the claim and it's clearly incumbent on the rest of us to prove the absence of bigfoot instead of on the claimants to prove its presence. Also, my god, man: Patterson died of leukemia. Show some respect! How dare you impugn his integrity!

This is what makes dealing with these people so difficult. Where do you even begin to address their arguments when each one is the product of multiple arguments within? Take the prospect of a Meldrum debate, for example. You'd never even get to mid-tarsal breaks if you did the debate justice because first you'd have to debunk the PGF to everyone's satisfaction.

Last edited by The Shrike; 6th December 2017 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 6th December 2017, 08:25 PM   #2844
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FWIW, Shrike I thought your rebuttal was pretty well done.

The one larger point I wanted to make to the editor, but haven't quite decided on how to articulate it is this:

This seems like a pretty cool idea for a website. Kind of a GoFundMe for research.
But I've got some background in wildlife/biology, and seeing Meldrum peddle his (obvious) crap and not only get away with it, but be outright promoted and supported by the administrators/editors, makes me wonder about the rest of "research" being promoted by this entire site.

I don't have any background in stem cells, cancer research, planetary science. Are charlatans similarly trying to swindle donors in those respective fields as well?

Credibility ruined. Immediately. Hope it was worth it.
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Old 8th December 2017, 01:01 PM   #2845
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
...
This is what makes dealing with these people so difficult. Where do you even begin to address their arguments when each one is the product of multiple arguments within? Take the prospect of a Meldrum debate, for example. You'd never even get to mid-tarsal breaks if you did the debate justice because first you'd have to debunk the PGF to everyone's satisfaction.
I read your responses there and you killed them. And by simply pointing out the reality. It's no shocker Meldrum hasn't personally responded. And he has in the recent past (on that site) including at least once to Drewbot. I definitely understand your reluctance to want to "debate" him in any proper forum as you nailed it - you'll want to debate the relevant facts and he'll "get stuck" on defining the letter R. Love that term Gish Gallop. Seems like Meldrum's Bigfoot career has revolved around it.
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Old 8th December 2017, 02:50 PM   #2846
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
This, the part at the end really galls me:



It's complete ************.
Countless biological surveys to document the faunal assemblages of mammals within the purported range of the Sasquatch have been conducted "by experienced wildlife biologists." Not one bigfoot seen.
Indeed....its hilariously ignorant footer logic....you'll never find Bigfoot, unless your looking for Bigfeets!!
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Old 8th December 2017, 07:20 PM   #2847
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Two quick questions for those in the know:
- Does Meldrum sell the alderwood cast?
- Does that stomper still exist?

Thanks
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Old 9th December 2017, 01:29 PM   #2848
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
I read your responses there and you killed them. And by simply pointing out the reality. It's no shocker Meldrum hasn't personally responded. And he has in the recent past (on that site) including at least once to Drewbot. I definitely understand your reluctance to want to "debate" him in any proper forum as you nailed it - you'll want to debate the relevant facts and he'll "get stuck" on defining the letter R. Love that term Gish Gallop. Seems like Meldrum's Bigfoot career has revolved around it.
I enjoyed Shrike's responses too. Even though the comment format seems confusing to me, following the dates the comments were posted, you may want to revisit the site because Meldrum does personally respond to Shrike.
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Old 9th December 2017, 05:18 PM   #2849
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
I enjoyed Shrike's responses too. Even though the comment format seems confusing to me, following the dates the comments were posted, you may want to revisit the site because Meldrum does personally respond to Shrike.
Dummy me! It's even worse. I actually read Meldrum's responses a month ago, but apparently I was also doing brain surgery or something in the back and neglected to realize it was a direct response to The Shrike. Now to be fair to me, he's not responded in over a month to any further comments on that site at all. And won't anymore directly to TS I'm sure.

His phony contempt and condescension "worked" for him in that main response because that's how his Gish game works, but it wouldn't last for long if he continued the "discussion" with it. Maybe especially so against a legitimate "peer" and other valid human intelligence following along. So he'll no doubt abstain for now if not from now on. You know he knows that a genuinely "public" forum in any shape or form is a dangerous place for his charade to play out if he takes part in it.

The serious advantage you gain by improperly claiming and promoting "science" through deceptive channels is you literally get to bypass all those pesky rules and conditions that are at the foundation of "science" itself. Seems like such an illegitimate and antithetical (if not immoral) desire to have as a duly anointed and employed as a scientist scientist. That is, if anyone still thinks Meldrum is somehow innocent and not the text book con man he pretends to be using his "science" title and position to game the system for fun and profit (and chicks), then there's probably nothing else to tell them.
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Old 10th December 2017, 09:37 AM   #2850
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Cheers, lads. As mentioned though, there's nothing I've written there that we haven't hashed out here 99 times. "If I have seen further . . ." and all that.

To me the interesting thing is the similarity in rhetorical technique between the Grand High Exalted Bigfooter and psychics, astrologers, anti-vaxxers, perpetual energy purveyors, and every other carnival huckster. Also enlightening is how much the entire modern case for bigfoot rests on the actions of a great carnival huckster.
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Old 10th December 2017, 10:03 AM   #2851
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This will probably piss off some folks here. I think Dunning, whose articles I usually like, makes an error or two here, such as saying Patterson and Gimlin were loggers. And I think he oversells the Patterson film a bit too much. His view of Meldrum surely will be contested here.

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4011
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Old 10th December 2017, 10:08 AM   #2852
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The article stinks in more ways than one..

Quote:
The half dozen or so Hollywood special effects artists who have since "come forward" to claim that they were responsible for the Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot suit, and the dozens of guys who have "come forward" to claim that they were the guy wearing the suit,
Who are these " dozens " of people ?
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Old 10th December 2017, 10:37 AM   #2853
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
This will probably piss off some folks here. I think Dunning, whose articles I usually like, makes an error or two here, such as saying Patterson and Gimlin were loggers. And I think he oversells the Patterson film a bit too much. His view of Meldrum surely will be contested here.

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4011
An error or two? Dunning's research is poor, he way oversells the pgf, and apparently did no background work on Meldrum at all. I wouldn't wipe my ass with that article, or viewpoint, or whatever he's calling it,.'

F.
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Old 11th December 2017, 10:58 AM   #2854
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
Two quick questions for those in the know:
- Does Meldrum sell the alderwood cast?
- Does that stomper still exist?

Thanks
I don't know if Meldrum sells copies of the Wallace Alderfoot casts but I wouldn't be surprised if he did since they are historically iconic and he does regard them as authentic.

The Wallace family has left and right alderwood stompers which were made and used by Ray Wallace and probably people related to him. These stompers have been photographed and we've discussed them over the years here. They are quite worn by abrasion on the bottoms so they had lots of use. The wear caused some change in the shape and depth of the imprint as compared to when they were newly carved.
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Old 11th December 2017, 02:20 PM   #2855
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
An error or two? Dunning's research is poor, he way oversells the pgf, and apparently did no background work on Meldrum at all. I wouldn't wipe my ass with that article, or viewpoint, or whatever he's calling it,.'

F.
As far as I can recall Meldrum has never published/done any Bigfoot scientific research. By which I mean Science. You know, the kind where you try to answer a question by some experimental method. He apparently doesn’t go out to inspect trackways or investigate reports. The closest he came to science was horning in on Bill Munns questioable “papers” at Meldrums “online journal”. In 3rd place comes his execrable description of some impressions in the ground at Bluff Creek.
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Old 11th December 2017, 02:54 PM   #2856
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
.....They are quite worn by abrasion on the bottoms so they had lots of use. The wear caused some change in the shape and depth of the imprint as compared to when they were newly carved.
Don't forget, one of them has an obvious crack in the heel, that shows up in some of the touted prints/casts..

In response to the crack, John Green claimed Wallace obviously used a real Bigfoot print as a model for his stomper..

At one time, Meldrum featured a Wallace print in the wall paper of his web site...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg crack2.jpg (34.1 KB, 4 views)
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Old 11th December 2017, 07:05 PM   #2857
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Originally Posted by DennyT View Post
As far as I can recall Meldrum has never published/done any Bigfoot scientific research. By which I mean Science. You know, the kind where you try to answer a question by some experimental method. He apparently doesn’t go out to inspect trackways or investigate reports. The closest he came to science was horning in on Bill Munns questioable “papers” at Meldrums “online journal”. In 3rd place comes his execrable description of some impressions in the ground at Bluff Creek.
Don't forget his outing with known hoaxer, Todd Standing. Meldrum actually endorsed the hoaxed video.
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Old 12th December 2017, 07:46 AM   #2858
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http://www2.isu.edu/~meldd/fxnlmorph.html

Alderfeet are in some of his papers, as well.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 12th December 2017, 09:04 AM   #2859
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
For example, check out this nugget buried within the first point: "As it stands, the P-G footage has never been debunked on the basis of objective reasoning and we deem it unfair to Mr. Patterson (who died of leukemia in 1972), and also to Mr. Gimlin, to accuse them of fraudulent behavior or lying without providing any specific evidence to support this accusation."
That's a real beauty. "This thing hasn't been debunked to my satisfaction, and if you try then you're being disrespectful of the dead!" Hmm.

I read the replies on that site - well, a lot of them anyway - and it makes me wonder how this guy would fare in a blind test. Not entirely sure how that would be set up, but... I suspect he'd see or not see features in the prints in a way that didn't stand up to scrutiny.
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Old 12th December 2017, 09:42 AM   #2860
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I'd like to see Meldrum answer some questions.

In your opinion, what percentage of footprint casts in your collection (over 200 now) are fakes?

Show us some of the fakes. What is it about them that suggests that they are fake?
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Old 12th December 2017, 02:30 PM   #2861
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
http://www2.isu.edu/~meldd/fxnlmorph.html

Alderfeet are in some of his papers, as well.
Not to mention a couple of bear tracks... LOL
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Old 13th December 2017, 12:30 AM   #2862
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'd like to see Meldrum answer some questions.

In your opinion, what percentage of footprint casts in your collection (over 200 now) are fakes?

Show us some of the fakes. What is it about them that suggests that they are fake?
That's why I'd love to get the alderwood stomper with the crack in it, especially if he has a cast of it in his 'real' collection.
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Old 13th December 2017, 09:10 AM   #2863
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
That's why I'd love to get the alderwood stomper with the crack in it, especially if he has a cast of it in his 'real' collection.
The one with the crack is the "right foot". But I'm not sure if any plaster casts of this were made. If one does exist it may not show the crack.

He certainly has the left foot cast but I don't know if he sells copies of it.

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Old 13th December 2017, 01:22 PM   #2864
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post

In response to the crack, John Green claimed Wallace obviously used a real Bigfoot print as a model for his stomper..
If I remember correctly, this is Meldrum's position as well. He claimed that Titmus was making copies of casts for sale, and Wallace may have purchased and used them for his fabrications of tracks.
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Old 13th December 2017, 01:25 PM   #2865
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
An error or two? Dunning's research is poor, he way oversells the pgf, and apparently did no background work on Meldrum at all. I wouldn't wipe my ass with that article, or viewpoint, or whatever he's calling it,.'

F.
I understate on occasion. Yep, the article is a mess. It's as if he just rushed it out without much thought, as if to meet a deadline. Not up to his usual standards.
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Old 13th December 2017, 02:45 PM   #2866
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
If I remember correctly, this is Meldrum's position as well. He claimed that Titmus was making copies of casts for sale, and Wallace may have purchased and used them for his fabrications of tracks.
Here are the Titmus second generation copy casts of the Wallace Alderfeet. The crack is not visible. It didn't register through the copying, or Titmus chose to not include that odd detail.

The idea that Wallace copied Titmus casts is debunked.

http://www.sasquatchcanada.com/uploa...13034_orig.jpg
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Old 13th December 2017, 02:45 PM   #2867
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From the article below the following excerpt.

"Meldrum’s laboratory houses more than 200 casts relating to Bigfoot. As he pulls out drawers and talks about the casts, Meldrum shows ones with the hallmarks of hoax and others that intrigue him because of anatomy, hair striations, musculature and an apparent midtarsal break—a pair of joints in the middle of the ape foot that have less mobility in the human foot because of the arch. He brings out a particularly controversial piece called the Skookum cast that he thinks may be of a reclining Sasquatch and others think may be of a reclining elk. 'There is a chance we are wrong,' he says. 'But with the footprints, I feel more certain.' Discounting the unusual casts 'isn’t scientific in the least,' Meldrum maintains, and 'it is irresponsible.'

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...gfoot-anatomy/
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Old 13th December 2017, 02:56 PM   #2868
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
I understate on occasion. Yep, the article is a mess. It's as if he just rushed it out without much thought, as if to meet a deadline. Not up to his usual standards.
IMO, it's not evidence of a rush with little thought. That would instead result in missing factoids. What he has done here is repeat claims made by Bigfooters which are false in a really big way. That doesn't happen in a rush. This is much worse.
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Old 13th December 2017, 08:54 PM   #2869
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Alderfeet are great and all, but I still have a problem with the mid-tarsal break. I mean given the Bigfoot setup as it is, what a daft idea. Though he certainly doesn't care, somehow it's the goose that lays golden eggs and it's his "official contribution" to the matter. Let's just forget all that pesky science stuff and the multiple layers of plausibility. I will promise he'll never come up with any more Bigfoot theories like that as that would be even stupider at this point in the game. And complete "credibility" suicide.

For starters the mid-tarsal break just never made any sense mechanically or anatomically. Why in the world would a bipedal 500+ pound beast that supposedly moves that fast have a mid-tarsal break? To climb all those trees he's never been reported to climb? It's a fact it's a mechanically inefficient configuration for proper forward (bipedal) locomotion. So much so it makes the toes become essentially "in the way" with a heel strike walking method. And humans haven't been accused legitimately of having it since way back near the beginning.

Now the longer heel aspect could be valid, but that's easily a reflection of the ultimate load above, better leverage on the whole lever (foot). But Meldrum hasn't ever promoted it that way. Such a mechanical advantage for such a large beast seems inescapably legitimate, yet it all gets squandered when teamed up with a mid-tarsal break. The front part of the foot still has to take up the slack and with that much weight, no way that's gonna remain unchanged for the bazillion years of Bigfoot evolution.

According to all the "evidence", they possess acute physical abilities so refined as to make humans look like the ape in that picture. And all of it in spite of a serious evolutionary defect that's likely only debilitating when it's not helping? That is, seems having the mid-foot flexible is seriously counter-productive as a true means for efficient Bigfoot locomotion, as well as counter-intuitive to imagine in the mind given the beast's supposed existence/lifestyle.

I'll go as far as to propose that print in the soft sand (from Bluff Creek?) that The Snake says demonstrates the mid-tarsal break so perfectly is the equivalent opposite of what a bipedal foot with short toes and a real mid-tarsal break would actually make in the same sand. And I've yet to see one.



Except for what he says he sees with his seeming magical PhD eyes, Meldrum has not produced an iota of valid evidence that even a single cast he owns was made by an actual flesh and blood Bigfoot. Nor has he produced any evidence that a real mid-tarsal break exists in any of them. And that's because it doesn't exist. Alderfeet are stiff mutha *******!
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Old 15th December 2017, 09:43 AM   #2870
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As to the mid-tarsal break. There is something I always wondered about, but never found anyone else who thought it a problem. Since the Great Apes have flexible feet and hands, and humans have flexible hands, we find creases in ape feet and hands (and human hands) that correspond to where hands and feet flex. In alleged Sasquatch tracks, we find no creases that would show a flexible foot. There ought to be a line-crease in the track if indeed a Sasquatch's foot bends as much as Meldrum thinks, and the Bluff Creek track would imply. Some enthusiasts think the sole of the Sasquatch foot is padded like a bear's. But still, wouldn't a crease corresponding to the flex pertain to a heavily padded foot as well? And if Sasquatch actually has bear like padded feet, how could it also possess dermal ridges?

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Old 15th December 2017, 09:58 AM   #2871
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Harry,

As to the Bluff Creek photo. I also wonder why, of all the prints there, this is the only one to show a pronounced mid-tarsal break. It seems to have stepped on a partially buried stick (although Meldrum discounts that); if so, why didn't the stick get buried by the alleged weight of the animal (or just break)? Also if you look at the heel mark, you can see the heel strike is layered, not blunt, which could indicate the "foot" was actually a device tapped into the ground, with each strike producing a stratum.

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Old 15th December 2017, 10:15 AM   #2872
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You can see human mid-tarsal break prints all over any beach.

I think the Patty print was made by first making the regular print, and then coming back and pressing the heel in again deeper.

I think the heel re-strike was done after some rain had fallen and a slight crust had formed on the soil.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 15th December 2017, 10:33 AM   #2873
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
You can see human mid-tarsal break prints all over any beach.

I think the Patty print was made by first making the regular print, and then coming back and pressing the heel in again deeper.

I think the heel re-strike was done after some rain had fallen and a slight crust had formed on the soil.
Meldrum argues that the prints on a beach show a break closer to the ball of the foot, not lower in the foot as Sasquatch prints indicate.

It seems to me that Patterson was trying to be extra clever by showing a flexible foot stepping on a stick, and thereby remove the idea that this was a hoax using inflexible stompers. It worked too good. Meldrum thinks it represents a unique bipedal mode adapted to a large primate, and discounts the idea the animal was simply rocking/stepping on a stick, an idea that would cast some shade on his "finding" of a mid-tarsal break.
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Old 15th December 2017, 10:48 AM   #2874
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
Meldrum argues that the prints on a beach show a break closer to the ball of the foot, not lower in the foot as Sasquatch prints indicate.

It seems to me that Patterson was trying to be extra clever by showing a flexible foot stepping on a stick, and thereby remove the idea that this was a hoax using inflexible stompers. It worked too good. Meldrum thinks it represents a unique bipedal mode adapted to a large primate, and discounts the idea the animal was simply rocking/stepping on a stick, an idea that would cast some shade on his "finding" of a mid-tarsal break.
I've always wanted to see him explain how a pair of feet that have spent a lifetime shoeless outdoors look as if they've spent a lifetime in shoes and in perfect condition.
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Old 15th December 2017, 10:49 AM   #2875
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
IMO, it's not evidence of a rush with little thought. That would instead result in missing factoids. What he has done here is repeat claims made by Bigfooters which are false in a really big way. That doesn't happen in a rush. This is much worse.
Obviously he does have some sympathy for Bigfoot phenomenon. But calling Patterson and Gimlin "loggers," saying that "hundreds" of guys have confessed to being Patterson's film subject, etc., are not something he learned from Bigfoot enthusiasts. It's an odd commentary, in its own little world.
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Old 15th December 2017, 10:52 AM   #2876
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
I've always wanted to see him explain how a pair of feet that have spent a lifetime shoeless outdoors look as if they've spent a lifetime in shoes and in perfect condition.
I agree. Which brings me to the point of why is there no crease in the Sasquatch foot where the mid-tarsal break is used in every step.
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Old 15th December 2017, 10:54 AM   #2877
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Here are the Titmus second generation copy casts of the Wallace Alderfeet. The crack is not visible. It didn't register through the copying, or Titmus chose to not include that odd detail.

The idea that Wallace copied Titmus casts is debunked.

http://www.sasquatchcanada.com/uploa...13034_orig.jpg
Yes, it was always a dubious proposition.
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Old 15th December 2017, 01:56 PM   #2878
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Some info on Brian Dunning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Dunning_(author)
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Old 15th December 2017, 01:56 PM   #2879
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
I've always wanted to see him explain how a pair of feet that have spent a lifetime shoeless outdoors look as if they've spent a lifetime in shoes and in perfect condition.
Given all of the intelligence attributed to bigfoot, the beastie probably wears moccasins.

The barefoot tracks we get are the country bumpkin bigfoots, who don't wear shoes.

I don't see how anyone can accept those PGF scene tracks as real given the description of the heavy flooding going on that night.

Look how delicate the cracked soil is at the break, and it had been raining for a while before Gimlin even claims to have ridden out there to put bark over some of the tracks. And bark wouldn't have done a thing about a flood even 1/4 of an inch deep as far as protecting the tracks.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 15th December 2017, 02:01 PM   #2880
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A bit wider shot of the MTB track, and a different pair of Alderfeet.

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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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