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Old 6th December 2017, 11:35 AM   #1
Bob001
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The rich get richer....

Latest news on the inequality front:
Quote:
The wealthiest 1 percent of American households own 40 percent of the country's wealth, according to a new paper by economist Edward N. Woolf. That share is higher than it has been at any point since at least 1962, according to Woolf's data, which comes from the federal Survey of Consumer Finances.

From 2013, the share of wealth owned by the 1 percent shot up by nearly three percentage points. Wealth owned by the bottom 90 percent, meanwhile, fell over the same period. Today, the top 1 percent of households own more wealth than the bottom 90 percent combined. That gap, between the ultrawealthy and everyone else, has only become wider in the past several decades.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.dc1db2bfc78f
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:40 AM   #2
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Ah see america is getting great again!
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Old 6th December 2017, 11:46 AM   #3
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Just keep voting for politicians who facilitate this, and mock everyone who points out the situation for being a spineless greedy communist.
Trickle down economics is going to start working aaaaany day now.

Last edited by Porpoise of Life; 6th December 2017 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 6th December 2017, 12:03 PM   #4
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Ah, but the top 1% are so much worse off than the top 0.001% ! We need to help them!
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Old 6th December 2017, 01:04 PM   #5
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Man. Reviewing the excel raw data. I'm rich? I don't feel rich. I drive a 14 year old vehicle that's been around the world nearly 7 times. Own one suit (that doesn't fit due to weight loss). I rarely if ever dine out.

But apparently getting an education and making savings a habit, and delayed gratification in purchases means I owe other people.

I'm not in the top 1%, but I'm solidly in the 90's. 80's for household income.

[/brag post]
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Old 6th December 2017, 01:12 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Ah, but the top 1% are so much worse off than the top 0.001% ! We need to help them!

That seems to be their position.
Quote:
JM: He has, according to his colleagues, a theory of humans which is that they have no inherent value. That a human being is only worth as much as they can earn. He argues that he earns thousands of times more than a school teacher, which makes him that much more valuable than school teachers. And people on welfare, he suggests, have no value. They have negative value. He argues, though, that cats have value—because watching them provides pleasure to people.
https://www.thenation.com/article/on...re-recipients/
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Old 6th December 2017, 01:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why does that sound strikingly close to the old Mr. Show with Bob and Dave skit 'Worthington's Law'...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbU4VRs2rro
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Old 6th December 2017, 01:23 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
Man. Reviewing the excel raw data. I'm rich? I don't feel rich. I drive a 14 year old vehicle that's been around the world nearly 7 times. Own one suit (that doesn't fit due to weight loss). I rarely if ever dine out.

But apparently getting an education and making savings a habit, and delayed gratification in purchases means I owe other people.

I'm not in the top 1%, but I'm solidly in the 90's. 80's for household income.

[/brag post]

What does "rich" mean to you? if you have a secure income and money in the bank, you are richer than many Americans, and if you achieved it entirely through your own efforts (no family help, no scholarships, no low-interest government loans, etc.) more power to you.

But if you are "in the 90s" for your net worth, you are still vastly worse off than the top 1%, and almost incomprehensibly worse off than the top .1%. Yet:
Quote:
Today, the top 1 percent of households own more wealth than the bottom 90 percent combined.
To the 1%, you are about a half-step above a MacDonald's cashier. The question on the table is how much inequality is the just result of talent and hard work, and how much the result of factors like skewed tax policies? How much inequality promotes ambition and accomplishment, and how much undermines the basic principles of our whole society?
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Old 6th December 2017, 01:31 PM   #9
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How is the average person doing compared to previous decades? Much better, even if income is down, which is by no means certain. There's much better medicine, and things to buy, and things are cheaper then ever before to buy.

So...the rich deserve what they've got? Certainly if you include the increases in wealth and nutrition and health in the poor countries jobs are exported to.

Humanity is experiencing a boon like never before! Good job, The Rich!
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

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Old 6th December 2017, 01:45 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What does "rich" mean to you? if you have a secure income and money in the bank, you are richer than many Americans, and if you achieved it entirely through your own efforts (no family help, no scholarships, no low-interest government loans, etc.) more power to you.

But if you are "in the 90s" for your net worth, you are still vastly worse off than the top 1%, and almost incomprehensibly worse off than the top .1%. Yet:

To the 1%, you are about a half-step above a MacDonald's cashier. The question on the table is how much inequality is the just result of talent and hard work, and how much the result of factors like skewed tax policies? How much inequality promotes ambition and accomplishment, and how much undermines the basic principles of our whole society?
See. I knew I was poor.
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Old 6th December 2017, 01:53 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Just keep voting for politicians who facilitate this...
It's a breathtakingly naïve to think that, especially after the supreme court decisions regarding money as free speech, people actually vote for these politicians. There's no longer any pretense; the wealthiest just buy them.
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Old 6th December 2017, 01:59 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
It's a breathtakingly naïve to think that, especially after the supreme court decisions regarding money as free speech, people actually vote for these politicians. There's no longer any pretense; the wealthiest just buy them.
That's just not true.

It's more akin to a rental...
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Old 6th December 2017, 02:56 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Ah, but the top 1% are so much worse off than the top 0.001% ! We need to help them!
I saw a post on another site today where someone explained that the rich are actually quite poor because such a small percentage of their money is liquid. Why, with all those hundred million dollar properties they own they hardly have two pennies to rub together - the poor dears!

We should start a fundraiser for these starving billionaires.
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Old 6th December 2017, 05:49 PM   #14
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Thanks, Obama!
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Old 7th December 2017, 12:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
How is the average person doing compared to previous decades? Much better, even if income is down, which is by no means certain. There's much better medicine, and things to buy, and things are cheaper then ever before to buy.

So...the rich deserve what they've got? Certainly if you include the increases in wealth and nutrition and health in the poor countries jobs are exported to.

Humanity is experiencing a boon like never before! Good job, The Rich!
I disagree.

Far fewer people own homes and the cost of doing so is much higher. My grandfather was a clerk at a grocery store and owned a home and raised 3 kids on that paycheck. In California no less. That is impossible now.

Health care is a mess and is more expensive. Education is poor. Entitlements are high.

Things are not cheaper to buy, they take a higher percentage of income than in decades past. People don't take vacations as often.

Both parents often have to work which was rare when I was a kid. If things were cheaper this would not be the case. In fact it's a big indicator.

The average person is actually doing much worse than in decades past.
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Old 7th December 2017, 01:19 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
How is the average person doing compared to previous decades? Much better, even if income is down, which is by no means certain. There's much better medicine, and things to buy, and things are cheaper then ever before to buy.

So...the rich deserve what they've got? Certainly if you include the increases in wealth and nutrition and health in the poor countries jobs are exported to.

Humanity is experiencing a boon like never before! Good job, The Rich!
Things like phones and TVs are cheaper. Education, homes and health care--the important things--are fast becoming harder to afford for the average person. The rich are trying to blind us to what's going on by dangling shiny objects in front of us.
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Last edited by twinstead; 7th December 2017 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 7th December 2017, 01:25 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Things like phones and TVs are cheaper. Education, homes and health care--the important things--are fast becoming harder to afford for the average person. The rich are trying to blind us to what's going on by dangling shiny things in front of us.
Education, homes and healthcare cost more partially because you get more.
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Old 7th December 2017, 01:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Education, homes and healthcare cost more partially because you get more.
If wages kept up with productivity maybe that wouldn't be a big deal.
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Old 7th December 2017, 01:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
If wages kept up with productivity maybe that wouldn't be a big deal.
It isn't a big deal regardless.
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Old 7th December 2017, 01:46 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
That's just not true.

It's more akin to a rental...
*snort*
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Old 7th December 2017, 04:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Latest news on the inequality front:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.dc1db2bfc78f
It's worth noting that this is pretty much a global phaenomenon. Wherever you look - globally, regionally, nationally, evein within cities - wealth is concentrating.

It'll all end in tears, mark my words.
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Old 7th December 2017, 04:13 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
Man. Reviewing the excel raw data. I'm rich? I don't feel rich. I drive a 14 year old vehicle that's been around the world nearly 7 times. Own one suit (that doesn't fit due to weight loss). I rarely if ever dine out.

But apparently getting an education and making savings a habit, and delayed gratification in purchases means I owe other people.

I'm not in the top 1%, but I'm solidly in the 90's. 80's for household income.

[/brag post]
14? 14 years old? Damn American Luxury. At least your car is from THIS Century! Mine is 25 years old!
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Old 7th December 2017, 04:18 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It isn't a big deal regardless.
That depends on the situation of the producing class. If they're reasonably prosperous and getting some improvement from the growth, they will be content, even if the rich are getting a larger portion than them. If they're getting poorer or stagnating as all the benefits of growth (and more) go to the rich they will get increasingly feisty. Which is a big deal. Always has been, always will be.
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Old 7th December 2017, 04:22 PM   #24
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
That depends on the situation of the producing class. If they're reasonably prosperous and getting some improvement from the growth, they will be content, even if the rich are getting a larger portion than them. If they're getting poorer or stagnating as all the benefits of growth (and more) go to the rich they will get increasingly feisty. Which is a big deal. Always has been, always will be.
I disagree. Not in a heat death of the universe sense.
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Old 7th December 2017, 04:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
14? 14 years old? Damn American Luxury. At least your car is from THIS Century! Mine is 25 years old!
Yeah, but it's a vintage Bentley, right?
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...r/2014199.html
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Old 7th December 2017, 04:39 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Things like phones and TVs are cheaper. Education, homes and health care--the important things--are fast becoming harder to afford for the average person. The rich are trying to blind us to what's going on by dangling shiny objects in front of us.
Those shiny objects get snatched up because they're desirable. As someone who grew up with black-and-white TV and, in my teenage years, pinball (not knocking pinball, heaven forfend, but y'know?) I think you fail to appreciate what you get for peanuts these days that was sci-fi in mine.

Education, health care, home care for the elderly are labour intensive. Those who provide it deserve all the nice shiny things they want as reward. And decent affordable accomodatoin, security, entertainment, walking-around money and a life generally worth living.

What really stinks is that the cost of this would make barely any impression on the lifestyles of the rich.
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Old 7th December 2017, 04:42 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I disagree. Not in a heat death of the universe sense.
In the tumbrils and guillotine sense it is.
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Old 7th December 2017, 04:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
14? 14 years old? Damn American Luxury. At least your car is from THIS Century! Mine is 25 years old!
A crime against the economy. For shame.
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Old 7th December 2017, 05:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Yeah, but it's a vintage Bentley, right?
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...r/2014199.html
I wish, mine is just a 1995 Toyota Corolla Liftback. Not even rare enough to ever be considered a classic.
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Old 7th December 2017, 05:30 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
A crime against the economy. For shame.
pft, considering I just spent over $3,800 on the blasted thing in the last 12 months, I don't think it was hurting the economy.

$370 - Back Brakes
$380 - Four new Tyres @ $95 a peice
$90 - Wheel alignment
$120 - two 6-month WOFs
$102 - 12 month Registration
$800 - Panel Beating after nose to tail accident
$1200 - Cam Belt replacement and Servicing
$800 - Clutch replacement
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 7th December 2017 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 7th December 2017, 08:29 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
14? 14 years old? Damn American Luxury. At least your car is from THIS Century! Mine is 25 years old!
For a second I thought I was in the Roy Moore thread...
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Old 8th December 2017, 12:55 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I disagree. Not in a heat death of the universe sense.

If the universe gets colder and colder as it gets older and older, why call it heat death?
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Old 8th December 2017, 01:45 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
If the universe gets colder and colder as it gets older and older, why call it heat death?
Same reason you call near collisions near misses.
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Old 8th December 2017, 03:11 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
If the universe gets colder and colder as it gets older and older, why call it heat death?
It's not really getting colder, but rather the heat energy is becoming equalised until all of the Universe is at the same temperature and information can no longer be passed by heat transfer, hence heat death.
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Old 8th December 2017, 07:47 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
If the universe gets colder and colder as it gets older and older, why call it heat death?
Because scientists know the difference between Heat and Temperature, unlike most non-scientists.

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Old 10th December 2017, 10:08 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I disagree.

Far fewer people own homes and the cost of doing so is much higher. My grandfather was a clerk at a grocery store and owned a home and raised 3 kids on that paycheck. In California no less. That is impossible now.
When your grandfather had a heart attack, most likely he lied sick and either got better or died.

Quote:
Health care is a mess and is more expensive. Education is poor. Entitlements are high.
It's more expensive because there's a hell of a lot more to buy. Entitlements couldn't dream of being this high back in the past with much weaker productivity. You can't tax it to pay for goodies without a sufficiently, per person, strong economy.


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Things are not cheaper to buy, they take a higher percentage of income than in decades past. People don't take vacations as often.
Food is almost free. The poorer you are, the fatter you are, which goes in the face of the standard economist's concern, dollars per calorie and so on.

What a novel problem to have.


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Both parents often have to work which was rare when I was a kid. If things were cheaper this would not be the case. In fact it's a big indicator.

The average person is actually doing much worse than in decades past.
Except that nobody would go into the past, because they'd be put up on a bed to die when they had a heart attack. Or, more recently, have open heart surgery with a 1 in 10 chance of dying on the table. What? It's down to 0.5% now?

Gosh, imagine that. What? They have all kinds of drugs to help out before and during a heart attack? Sheesh, get me the hell out of this terrible time and back to the good old days.



And, as mentioned, not that anybody is paying attention, the worldwide average is skyrocketing. As your life expectancy continues to climb, so, to, does that in places like China and India, as they become more open to...capitalism (properly defined as a naturally-arising corollary to freedom.)
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
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Old 10th December 2017, 11:14 AM   #37
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Education, homes and healthcare cost more partially because you get more.
You get more?

Healthcare sure, but that's an absurd assertion that everyone is getting more education or a bigger house.
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Old 10th December 2017, 04:49 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
Man. Reviewing the excel raw data. I'm rich?
No, you're really not, and I'm afraid the actual rich would laugh at your pretensions.

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I don't feel rich.
That's probably because you're not.

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I drive a 14 year old vehicle that's been around the world nearly 7 times. Own one suit (that doesn't fit due to weight loss). I rarely if ever dine out.
If you are rich you're bloody eccentric.

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But apparently getting an education and making savings a habit, and delayed gratification in purchases means I owe other people.
Where does that appear? Presumably not in the raw data.

Are you quite sure you'd be able to get an education, find a relevant job, and earn enough to save if you were starting out today? Could you buy a home?

The concentration of wealth and income in the 1% doesn't just come from a squeeze on the poor: the juice is soon gone from them.

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I'm not in the top 1%, but I'm solidly in the 90's. 80's for household income.
It requires a squeeze on the next 19% as well, and indeed on everybody else.

A small price to pay, of course, cosidering the great job the 1% are doing for us all.
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Old 10th December 2017, 07:26 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
It's more expensive because there's a hell of a lot more to buy.
Rubbish, healthcare is expensive because each Hospital has pretty much near a monopoly in its area of coverage, so it can charge those that don't have Insurance, or Government cover, pretty much whatever it wants to. When it comes to what Insurance companies pay, neither the Hospital or the Insurance Company really care as long as they both get to make a profit, so it's cheaper than for an uninsured person, but not as cheap as it could be, and finally the Government schemes are the cheapest, but they are hobbled by a group of people that don't think they should be paying for health care anyways.

You're not being forced to pay $15 for a packet of 2 Tylenol and $30 for an aspirin in an ER because you're getting more, it's because you are being price gouged because you don't have a choice in the matter.

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Food is almost free. The poorer you are, the fatter you are, which goes in the face of the standard economist's concern, dollars per calorie and so on.
The poor are fat because the cheap food that they can actually afford is nutritionally worthless and nothing but empty calories, leading to them being under nourished and obese! Buying healthy options and fresh nutritious food is out of their reach.
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 10th December 2017 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 10th December 2017, 07:40 PM   #40
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If you want to know how the rich get richer under the US Tax System, while the poor get kicked in the groin by the Government, watch this.....

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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