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Tags flat earth , flat earthers

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Old 7th December 2017, 04:34 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
What it is that's supposed to be accelerating us? And how does one consolidate this with the supposed unmoving Earth at the centre of the universe? For a start that would mean that the entire universe is being accelerated upwards at 9.8m/s2 which considering that just the part of it we can see has a mass of about 1.5 x 1053 kg we are talking about absolutely extraordinary amounts of energy being required to achieve this. Where is it all coming from?
Short answer: God.

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Old 7th December 2017, 04:38 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Not only that, but how do you define "up" in space?
In the direction of the ceiling and the sky, relative to Daniel.

Remember that in disputing gravity, Daniel claimed he stepped off the chair and onto the floor. He gave not a thought as to what that implied.

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Old 7th December 2017, 05:35 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
What it is that's supposed to be accelerating us? And how does one consolidate this with the supposed unmoving Earth at the centre of the universe? For a start that would mean that the entire universe is being accelerated upwards at 9.8m/s2 which considering that just the part of it we can see has a mass of about 1.5 x 1053 kg we are talking about absolutely extraordinary amounts of energy being required to achieve this. Where is it all coming from?
you are making the mistake by assuming that their physical model of the universe is the same as the generally accept model of reality.

In order for their universe to make sense, they need to invent a whole new model of reality by reinventing physics starting from about 400 years ago, that explains all the natural phenomena that current physics explains . After all wasn't Danial, sorry, Daniel suggesting Gravity doesn't exist?

It is kinda impossible to argue rationally with a bunch of people who deny reality, at least in attempting to win the argument with them. Of course you can win the argument for other people that are listening, but I can't imagine there are very many fence sitters on this one.

We can be stupid Apes sometimes. I predict it will take at least another 100,000 years before we can completely shed our irrationality and tribe mentality born of fear, greed, narcissism and ignorance.

Let's face it, as a race we are probably quite capable (technically speaking) of ensuring that no one is starving or without water globally right now, but we wont. There is a whole conversation here regarding free speech, freedom of expression and fake news. Flat Earthers are presumably pretty benign and society allows them to perform their stupidity out in the open. But of course we have other organizations that really on the face of it have equally silly ideas (virgin birth, cracker turning into the body of their savior, resurrection etc etc etc) who's dogma has much darker implications.
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Old 8th December 2017, 12:16 AM   #524
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Would acceleration in a vacuum give the appearance of gravity? I mean, when they fired the booster rockets on the Apollo missions, did all the astronauts end up pinned to the back wall?
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Old 8th December 2017, 12:29 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Would acceleration in a vacuum give the appearance of gravity? I mean, when they fired the booster rockets on the Apollo missions, did all the astronauts end up pinned to the back wall?
Yes and not quite. The impulse provided in space is typically fractions of a g.

You can watch videos of things floating slowly towards the walls during iss boosts. Will look for a link.

ETA: https://youtu.be/u4ggQdkTcLo
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Old 8th December 2017, 01:02 AM   #526
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What is the flat earth theory with regard to the fact that the sizes of southern land masses are much larger that are shown on a flat earth map than they are generally known to be? Have all the pilots that fly over Australia hidden the fact that Australia is about twice as wide on a flat Earth maps as it is normally reported to be? They also seem to be failing to notice that the shape of Australia as shown on a flat Earth map is much different than the shape of Australia shown in normal maps.
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Old 8th December 2017, 02:07 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
What is the flat earth theory with regard to the fact that the sizes of southern land masses are much larger that are shown on a flat earth map than they are generally known to be? Have all the pilots that fly over Australia hidden the fact that Australia is about twice as wide on a flat Earth maps as it is normally reported to be? They also seem to be failing to notice that the shape of Australia as shown on a flat Earth map is much different than the shape of Australia shown in normal maps.
"Quick, look over there, unicorns" about covers it.
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Old 8th December 2017, 02:24 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Would acceleration in a vacuum give the appearance of gravity?
Depends. If you accept the postulates of General Relativity, then yes. If you don't accept them, have you ever used satnav?

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Old 8th December 2017, 11:01 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
What is the flat earth theory with regard to the fact that the sizes of southern land masses are much larger that are shown on a flat earth map than they are generally known to be? Have all the pilots that fly over Australia hidden the fact that Australia is about twice as wide on a flat Earth maps as it is normally reported to be? They also seem to be failing to notice that the shape of Australia as shown on a flat Earth map is much different than the shape of Australia shown in normal maps.
The actual existence of Australia is not a given to some of these folks, much less its shape. Of course, the only evidence of Australia they've ever experienced first hand is Fosters, so don't be too hard on them.
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Old 8th December 2017, 02:01 PM   #530
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
The actual existence of Australia is not a given to some of these folks, much less its shape. Of course, the only evidence of Australia they've ever experienced first hand is Fosters, so don't be too hard on them.
They are not following the cricket Ashes series 'down under' lately? Sciency types should know better!

p.s. Daniel doesn't believe a word of what he's typing. This kind of thing is a hobby for some people.
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Old 8th December 2017, 09:04 PM   #531
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
The actual existence of Australia is not a given to some of these folks, much less its shape. Of course, the only evidence of Australia they've ever experienced first hand is Fosters, so don't be too hard on them.
I don't think they give a XXXX
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Old 8th December 2017, 10:02 PM   #532
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
I'm not Daniel but I think the basic idea is that the Sun moves around the flat earth illuminating different parts as it passes over them. The only way that I can see remotely how this would work is if the Sun is like a flood light. If it's a big bright ball the transition from dark to light would be gradual and everybody on earth would always be able to see the sun albeit glowing dimly.

A problem with the flood light idea is that it seems like you'd see the dark side of the Sun. (Not that this is the only problem with the idea http://www.internationalskeptics.com...cons/icon7.gif)

ETA: In thinking about this a bit more, the flood light needs to produce a pattern that illuminates about half the earth and it rotates around a point that the north pole is continuously illuminated for half the year and in the dark for the other half of the year. But I don't understand something here because I can't see how to produce the seasons. But the sun flood light already needs to be pretty trick since it needs to vary the illumination so that the areas near the edge get as much light as the areas directly under the Sun. So I think what is required here is an arduino processor to carefully control the flood lamp output to make it so that every part of the earth gets the amount of illumination appropriate for the season.
Ugh, I just realized that there is a major hole in my model. The sun is high in the sky in the northern hemisphere and low in the sky in the southern hemisphere when it is summer in the northern hemisphere and winter in the southern hemisphere. How can this be accomplished with a flat earth?
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Old 8th December 2017, 10:39 PM   #533
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Old 8th December 2017, 10:50 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by Octavo View Post
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Old 9th December 2017, 08:20 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by Octavo View Post
Well, that's the rub of it Octavo, though not what flat Earther's fear but what the heck would all the spherical conspirators fear if the Earth were in fact flat? As far as conspiracy theories go, the flat Earth has to be the lamest. Heck, it doesn't even rise to the level of a Scooby Doo plot. At least there the perpetrator has some reason for the hoax. Forget assassinations, shape shifting reptilian aliens, clandestine and ancient societies controlling the fate of the world, fluoridation of water sapping and impurifying ones precious bodily fluids, false flag attacks, super secret suppressed technology, forget all that. Oooohhhh nooooos the great and terrible secret that must be protected at all costs is simply the geometrical shape of the Earth?!?!
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Old 9th December 2017, 09:57 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Well, that's the rub of it Octavo, though not what flat Earther's fear but what the heck would all the spherical conspirators fear if the Earth were in fact flat? As far as conspiracy theories go, the flat Earth has to be the lamest. Heck, it doesn't even rise to the level of a Scooby Doo plot. At least there the perpetrator has some reason for the hoax. Forget assassinations, shape shifting reptilian aliens, clandestine and ancient societies controlling the fate of the world, fluoridation of water sapping and impurifying ones precious bodily fluids, false flag attacks, super secret suppressed technology, forget all that. Oooohhhh nooooos the great and terrible secret that must be protected at all costs is simply the geometrical shape of the Earth?!?!
It's a conspiracy to make people think they aren't central to the universe.

Because reasons.
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Old 9th December 2017, 12:17 PM   #537
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
It's a conspiracy to make people think they aren't central to the universe.

Because reasons.
See, and that's why it doesn't even rise to the level of a Scooby Doo plot. As there is no reason why the geometrical shape of the Earth would either make people be or preclude them from being central to the universe.

It's like the villain pretending to be a ghost to scare people away from a haunted hayride. It's not the shape of the Earth that would make people central or not, it is the people and the nature of universe that would. Just as it is not the one pretend ghost that makes the hayride haunted but the whole she-bang and the very intent of the hayride.
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Old 9th December 2017, 12:50 PM   #538
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I thought the point of the exercise was to show the sciency types that they don't really know as much as they think, that they're just parroting formulas. If you can make these hard-headed types doubt their certainty about the shape of the earth, then you can begin to show what a house of cards is evolution or something -- something you really care about because of prior religious beliefs.

The sophist poster in question is certainly not a typical educated intellectual, what with the characteristic spelling mistakes and the narrow focus on "debate", as if things could be decided by contest.
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Old 9th December 2017, 02:02 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
I thought the point of the exercise was to show the sciency types that they don't really know as much as they think, that they're just parroting formulas.
Problem is, this is not what they are showing. They pick up some strawman claim and try to force people to prove it to them, but none of these claims are the proof of the shape of the Earth. They are, at best, attempts of falsification, but they really turn out to be arguments from incredulity.

Quote:
If you can make these hard-headed types doubt their certainty about the shape of the earth, then you can begin to show what a house of cards is evolution or something -- something you really care about because of prior religious beliefs.
Fine, but then they should aim at weakening the REAL arguments for the shape of Earth (and it's position in the universe), rather than lame claims about missile ranges, uneducated claims about what they think being part of a system in motion means, and, really the most stupid, trying to deny the obvious existence of pressure gradients.

Quote:
The sophist poster in question is certainly not a typical educated intellectual, what with the characteristic spelling mistakes and the narrow focus on "debate", as if things could be decided by contest.
Ya. What is commonly known as 'trolling'.

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Old 10th December 2017, 10:06 PM   #540
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Do they ever try to debunk Eratosthenes' proof of the round earth (and his calculation of its circumference)?

I suppose it would not be surprising if flat earthers tend to be math illiterate, but a math crank who's also a flat earther would surely take a whack at it.

ETA: Never mind, I can google "eratosthenes debunked".

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Old 10th December 2017, 11:31 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Do they ever try to debunk Eratosthenes' proof of the round earth (and his calculation of its circumference)?

I suppose it would not be surprising if flat earthers tend to be math illiterate, but a math crank who's also a flat earther would surely take a whack at it.

ETA: Never mind, I can google "eratosthenes debunked".
This is an interesting question. Since there are weird videos and sites on this all over the place I'd expect you'll find something.

It is interesting on other levels as well. Pursuing something like this would be exactly the kind of thing a person might do if they really were trying to establish their hypothesis of a flat earth and they were introspective enough to overcome their confirmation biases with regard to biblical infallibility and they were mentally astute enough to understand the geometry.

I wonder how a flat earther might react to this image:


No careful understanding of the geometrical understanding of the Eratosthenes estimate of the circumference of the earth is necessary. The round earth model makes one set of predictions about the size of geographical features and the flat earth model makes another.
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Old 11th December 2017, 02:43 AM   #542
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
This is an interesting question. Since there are weird videos and sites on this all over the place I'd expect you'll find something.

It is interesting on other levels as well. Pursuing something like this would be exactly the kind of thing a person might do if they really were trying to establish their hypothesis of a flat earth and they were introspective enough to overcome their confirmation biases with regard to biblical infallibility and they were mentally astute enough to understand the geometry.

I wonder how a flat earther might react to this image:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...e2405bccef.jpg

No careful understanding of the geometrical understanding of the Eratosthenes estimate of the circumference of the earth is necessary. The round earth model makes one set of predictions about the size of geographical features and the flat earth model makes another.
Australia is a hoax.

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Old 11th December 2017, 03:14 AM   #543
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Australia is a hoax.

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I was born there
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Old 11th December 2017, 03:27 AM   #544
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What we could do is present a little challenge to flat-earthers:

If the sun is much smaller and closer to Earth than claimed by astronomers, it should be no great feat to calculate it's size and position. All we need is a bit of triangulation.

Here are some solar heights that will occur on March 20 2018 at noon in Eastern USA (I have picked a future date, in case someone would like to prepare to verify the observation. It is on the spring equinox):

The places are approximately on a North-South line.

Miami: Elevation 63.84 degrees.
Atlanta: Elevation 56.09 degrees.
Toronto: Elevation 45.65 degrees.

And the apparent width of the sun is 0.53 degrees in all cases.

Since, no matter what or where the sun is, it can only be in one place at a time, these three lines, when plotted from the surface of Earth should cross in one place.

Challenge: Based on a flat Earth, (straight baseline) plot these sun directions and establish the position of the sun on a north-south line. Then calculate its actual diameter.

Show your work.

Hans
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Old 11th December 2017, 04:42 AM   #545
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Don't know if this has been posted yet ...

You shouldn't just summarily dismiss The Flat Earth Society. It has members all over the globe! :-)
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Old 11th December 2017, 08:03 AM   #546
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Originally Posted by Didactylos View Post
Don't know if this has been posted yet ...

You shouldn't just summarily dismiss The Flat Earth Society. It has members all over the globe! :-)
http://instantrimshot.com

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Old 11th December 2017, 08:11 AM   #547
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Mt. Rainier casting a shadow during a sunset



Explain THAT Flat-Earthers
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Old 11th December 2017, 08:14 AM   #548
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Old 11th December 2017, 11:17 AM   #549
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Wow! The cosmic egg takes flat earth to a whole different level, this is just a massive mangled mess of jibberish he's compiled from random stuff that's fallen into his head.

He's made a nice model though which he explains maybe around the 20 minute mark and puts the whole model together at around 30 mins.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=305s&v=2PJ1_uKGLVM
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Old 11th December 2017, 12:08 PM   #550
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I had one of them claim that this photo was only possible on a flat Earth.

I made this for him:



Never got a reply.
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Old 11th December 2017, 01:08 PM   #551
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Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
I had one of them claim that this photo was only possible on a flat Earth.

I made this for him:

https://i.imgur.com/PwnwL7P.jpg

Never got a reply.
Well played. Very well played.
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Old 11th December 2017, 02:36 PM   #552
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Welp, I'm convinced!
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Old 11th December 2017, 06:29 PM   #553
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Old 11th December 2017, 09:15 PM   #554
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Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
I had one of them claim that this photo was only possible on a flat Earth.

I made this for him:

https://i.imgur.com/PwnwL7P.jpg

Never got a reply.
Is that the flat sky theory?

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