The death of retail

Minoosh

Penultimate Amazing
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We keep hearing about the death of retail, how now most shopping is done online and people don't bother with "bricks and mortars" stores. But could there eventually be a backlash? In my formative years, going to the mall was a big deal. Not to shop, but to see and be seen by other members of the peer group. I keep hearing about how kids are not getting out as much, including the claims that traffic fatalities are down because teenagers socialize by text message. We may be overbuilt with malls, but I just can't see the social experience of malls overtaken by text messaging and delivery services. Is the so-called "death of retail" over-hyped? Do we need a new kind of bricks-and-mortar gathering place, or is everyone happy communicating in an online environment? Will Amazon turn Whole Foods into just another Internet service, or will it remain a place where like-minded shoppers gather?

I have no statistics, would be interested in evidence that either confirms that we are our no longer interested in gathering places, or reveals a new mode of socialization that will look completely different than the traditional model. Personally, I will shop retail for the chance to try clothes on, but then order online once I'm sure of what I'll be getting. How much longer will that factor be in play? How long until all shopping is online and bricks-and-mortar stores are completely obsolete? What could happen that would tip people back into traditional retail? I'd be interested in hearing ideas.
 
The only brick-and-mortar stores I visit are the grocery stroe, hardware store and shoe store. Everything else I purchase is done online.
 
There's shopping and then there's Shopping.

The former is an activity that we reluctantly undertake to get things that we want or need. The latter is a leisure pursuit where at least some of the fun comes from the act itself. Different people have different things they'll go Shopping for and/or different circumstances under which they are prepared to go Shopping, and I guess that there are some people who won't go Shopping under any circumstances.

Personally, I go shopping when I'm in a new place with really interesting shops. Overseas that'll tend to be food shops or places with local "stuff". At home I go Shopping for musical instruments and musical paraphernalia, records, wine and gifts for special people like Mrs Don, everything else is shopping.
 
Try on clothes? I only started trying on clothes before buying because my wife made me.
I'm kind of the same way. At work I rely on black leggings and oversized, long tunic-style tops. I can buy that stuff without trying it on. But I wouldn't buy shoes online unless they were duplicates of shoes I had tried on.

ETA: I was thinking largely about how teenagers like to hang out at malls. What would be a similarly attractive gathering place? Unfortunately that's how a lot of kids treat school, but what about on weekends, during the summer etc.? Do they not care about face-to-face socializing anymore?
 
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I was thinking largely about how teenagers like to hang out at malls. What would be a similarly attractive gathering place? Unfortunately that's how a lot of kids treat school, but what about on weekends, during the summer etc.? Do they not care about face-to-face socializing anymore?

If my kids are any indication (and I have a fairly decent sample size of ages), they just don't care anymore. Friends houses are where they gather when they do. They meet people through school, team sports, or other activities (church groups, music, academic clubs, etc.). They do things with those kids. They don't "talk on the phone" anymore. They do text back and forth. My kids don't do social media, but most do. Among their peer group, driving isn't the "right of passage" it once was. Many seem almost reluctant to take on the responsibility and don't really see the benefit of it. I know quite a few who are content to wait until they are 18 or even in college before considering it.
 
If my kids are any indication (and I have a fairly decent sample size of ages), they just don't care anymore. Friends houses are where they gather when they do. They meet people through school, team sports, or other activities (church groups, music, academic clubs, etc.). They do things with those kids. They don't "talk on the phone" anymore. They do text back and forth. My kids don't do social media, but most do. Among their peer group, driving isn't the "right of passage" it once was. Many seem almost reluctant to take on the responsibility and don't really see the benefit of it. I know quite a few who are content to wait until they are 18 or even in college before considering it.

I wish! My kid turns 16 today and getting her license is her main priority.

I certainly agree that hanging at friends' homes is the place to get together. In our case the home is usually ours.
 
I used to prefer online shopping because there were more choices...but then Amazon let just anybody sell stuff, so now page after page is full of cheap Chinese crap, flooding out results that you might want to buy with endless heaps of stuff you wouldn't pay even the seventeen cents they're asking for (and then waiting two months to get your stuff, which will be in the wrong size and, for some reason, covered in dirt). Now at least if you go to a physical store you stand a chance that the product you buy might actually resemble the product you choose.
 
Living in Australia retail is in a very bad way at the moment... most small businesses are 30 plus % down, I can't see this ending well.
 
I used to prefer online shopping because there were more choices...but then Amazon let just anybody sell stuff, so now page after page is full of cheap Chinese crap, flooding out results that you might want to buy with endless heaps of stuff you wouldn't pay even the seventeen cents they're asking for (and then waiting two months to get your stuff, which will be in the wrong size and, for some reason, covered in dirt). Now at least if you go to a physical store you stand a chance that the product you buy might actually resemble the product you choose.

Two words: Pork Ribs.

I kicked Isaac Hayes' ass about some great pork ribs one time or another. Next time it was my ass that got some kicking. That rivalry became the Memphis in May International Barbecue Cooking Contest.

The ribs in both cases were the Food Of The Gods. and we all ate well.
 
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I used to prefer online shopping because there were more choices...but then Amazon let just anybody sell stuff, so now page after page is full of cheap Chinese crap, flooding out results that you might want to buy with endless heaps of stuff you wouldn't pay even the seventeen cents they're asking for (and then waiting two months to get your stuff, which will be in the wrong size and, for some reason, covered in dirt). Now at least if you go to a physical store you stand a chance that the product you buy might actually resemble the product you choose.

there is the filter 'sold by amazon' or smth like that
 
When we start 3D-printing what we want, will that count as online or retail?

I suggest that in the future if you want some obscure product that can be made via a 3D printer you will go to a 3D printer shop that will make that product. They would have top end printer. One that is constantly working. On the other hand you might order it online and then either pick it up or have it posted to you.
 
I seriously doubt anything like malls are going to come back, but before malls it was the local diner, more smaller city amusement parks with season passes, riding city trolleys in the 30s and 40's, and stuff like that. I've suspected something else would come along next, but maybe not. Maybe texting and video games at home is going to stay the new way of passing time for the foreseeable future. Interesting question.
 
I seriously doubt anything like malls are going to come back, but before malls it was the local diner, more smaller city amusement parks with season passes, riding city trolleys in the 30s and 40's, and stuff like that. I've suspected something else would come along next, but maybe not. Maybe texting and video games at home is going to stay the new way of passing time for the foreseeable future. Interesting question.

One thing that is coming back and cannot be done on-line is dining out.

Do not like buying fresh food on line as I cannot tell how good it is without inspecting the food.

What other things cannot be done online and only done in a business premises, like the above?
 
One thing that is coming back and cannot be done on-line is dining out.

Do not like buying fresh food on line as I cannot tell how good it is without inspecting the food.

What other things cannot be done online and only done in a business premises, like the above?

Have young people been increasing the rate of dining out in response to malls going the way of the dodo?

I'm of the age where I'm right on the line between millennials and Gen Xers, and malls were 50% dead by the time I was 16, and we actually did spend a lot of time just hanging out at coffee shops, which is very similar to the 50's diner phenomenon, perhaps.

Maybe the way it'll go is teens are "always" going to hang out in houses more than previous generations because of the new home technology, but restaurants will have some boost relative to the 80's and early 90's?

Something cool and truly new could also spring up for teens to do outside of the house, like some VR-enhanced laser tag places with thriving food courts or something.
 
Something cool and truly new could also spring up for teens to do outside of the house, like some VR-enhanced laser tag places with thriving food courts or something.

I think you are onto something with this last paragraph. People will want to play games and if the only way to do it is to use machines that cost big $ then the only way to do it is to go to a shop that has that equipment. VR games and laser tag, as you say, would be good examples. 10 pin bowling is another.

Then ball sports of any time would be another. This includes both playing and watching them.
 
The retail layer raises the price of everything, rather remarkably. Bypassing it makes the economy more effective, everything becomes cheaper. It is worth getting rid of, to the extent that we want to get rid of it. What remains valuable for people, such as the experience of going shopping hanging out at a shopping mall cafeteria & restaurant mall, will not go extinct.
 
What is happening is that the largest of the Malls are growing and expanding and doing fairly well. But the medium and smaller malls are suffering badly and things are not going well. I know of a couple in the Philly region that are going to be demolished for a more open 'town shopping' style location.

Malls as places for teens to hang out haven't been a thing for almost 20 years now.

A lot of specialty retail stores are going away.
 
What is happening is that the largest of the Malls are growing and expanding and doing fairly well. But the medium and smaller malls are suffering badly and things are not going well. I know of a couple in the Philly region that are going to be demolished for a more open 'town shopping' style location.

Malls as places for teens to hang out haven't been a thing for almost 20 years now.

A lot of specialty retail stores are going away.


I hope not the Oxford Valley mall and the Neshaminy mall those were two of the first malls we ever went to as kids.

The first mall around here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutchess_Mall

the Duchess Mall closed almost 20 years ago becoming more like the Pennsauken Mart by the end.

http://dutchessmarketplace.com/our-vendors/
 
Oxford Valley seems to be doing OK but can't keep an anchor store. Neshaminy is circling the drain. Oxford can probably assert itself as the biggest mall in the immediate region but may not have the space like King of Prussia or Cherry Hill mall.
 
My local town centre has far more coffee shops, cafes and restaurants than 10 years ago. People do not go there so much to shop, but they still like to get out and have leisure time.
 
When I was young a big reason for going out was to get away from the parents. I had fine parents but as a kid I was on my bike or gone when possible. As a teenager multiply that by 100. Parties, playing in a band, sometimes hanging at home.

Kids are weird now. Not wanting to drive? Can't get rid of them if they won't drive!
 
T'was so for me as well, until Amazon decided to outsource their once-excellent customer support to another country and change their parcel carriers to crappier ones. :(

If I buy from Amazon I use 'Click and Collect' so I don't have to wait around for the delivery.

Ironically it means I have to visit a real store to collect.
 
'Click and Collect' ... Ironically it means I have to visit a real store to collect.
And guess what motivates real stores to offer such a collect service? Throw-in of potential customers, who might buy also something else when in shop.
 
The thread title is bugging me a bit. Retail isn't dying, it's evolving. Just as it always has. When I buy a product from Amazon, it's still retail, just as it is from Walmart or Don's Pharmacy.
 
The thread title is bugging me a bit. Retail isn't dying, it's evolving. Just as it always has. When I buy a product from Amazon, it's still retail, just as it is from Walmart or Don's Pharmacy.
I think I meant the death of retail as a socially binding force/experience. I know that's not quite right either. I was thinking mainly of the habits of young people - in my youth we'd hang out at the mall, but I think young people in general are doing less "hanging out" vs. texting and other social media.

I'm wary of Amazon just because I'm generally wary of the unintended consequences of large-scale entrepreneurial trends. For example, the fast food explosion and what it did to Americans' health. Online shopping seems like one more way for Americans to stop moving and to stop interacting even cursorily with anything outside our own bubbles.
 
And guess what motivates real stores to offer such a collect service? Throw-in of potential customers, who might buy also something else when in shop.

Plus, Amazon's pick-up service insures that your orders don't "disappear" before one can pick them up - a real plus in an area that has lots of apartments, and where delivery persons occasionally ignore the "Do not place packages in the lobby" signs that management has put up in said lobbies...:(
 
Kids are weird now. Not wanting to drive? Can't get rid of them if they won't drive!

I think the introductions of Graduated Driving restrictions over the past few years played a roll in this. Learning to drive used to be a sign of freedom. Now, with all the restrictions that teen drivers have to put up with, its another pain in the neck.

Yes the aims are noble, but if you had a choice between this, and communicating with friends via the internet, I'll go with the one that is less of a burden...;)
 
The old model of viewing brick & mortar verse eCommerce channels are dated and one-dimensional. The existence of a physical presence has been correlated with higher combined sales by geographical area. The numbers tell us that brick and mortar stores provide a financial benefit to the overall value of companies. For that reason, they will continue to play a part in commerce.
 
We keep hearing about the death of retail, how now most shopping is done online and people don't bother with "bricks and mortars" stores. But could there eventually be a backlash? In my formative years, going to the mall was a big deal. Not to shop, but to see and be seen by other members of the peer group. I keep hearing about how kids are not getting out as much, including the claims that traffic fatalities are down because teenagers socialize by text message. We may be overbuilt with malls, but I just can't see the social experience of malls overtaken by text messaging and delivery services. Is the so-called "death of retail" over-hyped? Do we need a new kind of bricks-and-mortar gathering place, or is everyone happy communicating in an online environment? Will Amazon turn Whole Foods into just another Internet service, or will it remain a place where like-minded shoppers gather?

I have no statistics, would be interested in evidence that either confirms that we are our no longer interested in gathering places, or reveals a new mode of socialization that will look completely different than the traditional model. Personally, I will shop retail for the chance to try clothes on, but then order online once I'm sure of what I'll be getting. How much longer will that factor be in play? How long until all shopping is online and bricks-and-mortar stores are completely obsolete? What could happen that would tip people back into traditional retail? I'd be interested in hearing ideas.

Here in Orlando I recently decided to check out reports of dropping customers in the malls. Checked 3 around the city that I used to go to.

The one that had the most still coming in was roughly half the old numbers, next best was about a third of old numbers and the last was under a tenth (and I checked it three reasonably separate times thinking it could not be that far gone but it definitely was/is)). Most of the customers were in the food court/theater. And roughly half the locations in the food court were no longer operating..
 
There's shopping and then there's Shopping.

The former is an activity that we reluctantly undertake to get things that we want or need. The latter is a leisure pursuit where at least some of the fun comes from the act itself. Different people have different things they'll go Shopping for and/or different circumstances under which they are prepared to go Shopping, and I guess that there are some people who won't go Shopping under any circumstances.

Personally, I go shopping when I'm in a new place with really interesting shops. Overseas that'll tend to be food shops or places with local "stuff". At home I go Shopping for musical instruments and musical paraphernalia, records, wine and gifts for special people like Mrs Don, everything else is shopping.
Friend of mine can't get around (crutches or wheelchair) during the day time (husband works and hates shopping anyway) so at least once a week I take her around to find new materials for the card making class she works with and other things she need to get done. She is of the fun of shopping philosophy like you (and me)
 
We keep hearing about the death of retail, how now most shopping is done online and people don't bother with "bricks and mortars" stores. But could there eventually be a backlash? In my formative years, going to the mall was a big deal. Not to shop, but to see and be seen by other members of the peer group. I keep hearing about how kids are not getting out as much, including the claims that traffic fatalities are down because teenagers socialize by text message.

I live downtown in a small city and I can say teenagers gather in groups all the time here ... Rarely at the Mall though as our mall is "SOOOOO LAME" .. but at Walmart, and the parks in nice weather, and just walking around downtown.
 

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