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Old 12th January 2018, 12:42 PM   #481
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Someone's going to have to explain to me why anyone would want to pay Mark Whalberg for anything.
It's obvious. If he was in my house I'd pay him a hell of a lot to **** off.
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Old 12th January 2018, 12:46 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Someone's going to have to explain to me why anyone would want to pay Mark Whalberg for anything.
Shouldn't be difficult to get an answer, since the guy is in ******* everything that's come out in the last few years.

Mark Wahlberg is the Renee Russo of the 2010's.
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Old 12th January 2018, 12:49 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In the context of what he was replying to, uke2se is making theft, rape and looking down a woman's cleavage the same thing.
No. The poster is pointing out multiple types of victim-blaming. This does not equate the types of victims.

And I already pointed out the problems with concerns over #starerape in post 395.
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Old 12th January 2018, 12:50 PM   #484
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
But is the gender the important factor? I mean, Lawrence is probably paid more than the vast majority of male actors in Hollywood right now.
It's not like JLaw and Amy Adams were unknowns at the time. Lawrence had already been nominated for 2 Oscars and Adams 4 times. JLaw won for Silver Linings and she was the star of The Hunger Games, the biggest movie in America at the time. Cooper was much closer to an unknown than either of the women and yet his salary was double that of the women.
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Old 12th January 2018, 12:51 PM   #485
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Someone's going to have to explain to me why anyone would want to pay Mark Whalberg for anything.
I'm with you there. He's a so so actor at best.
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Old 12th January 2018, 12:52 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's not like JLaw and Amy Adams were unknowns at the time. Lawrence had already been nominated for 2 Oscars and Adams 4 times. JLaw won for Silver Linings and she was the star of The Hunger Games, the biggest movie in America at the time. Cooper was much closer to an unknown than either of the women and yet his salary was double that of the women.
That might be the case from your POV but I'm wondering about the actual reasons why star X is paid more than star Y. It's easy to stand on the outside, take JLaw's rant at face value without further information and feel right in our conclusion.
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:00 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm with you there. He's a so so actor at best.
He does seem like a weird outlier. Tom Hanks has actual talent. Hell even the Rock and Vin Diesel have charisma so I can get while they're worth the money to put in a good action flick.

But Whalberg? Outside of Pain and Gain....
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:02 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Someone's going to have to explain to me why anyone would want to pay Mark Whalberg for anything.
Because he is a good actor who plays his (admittedly limited range of) movie roles very well.

In the movies of his that I have seen (Shooter, Patriots Day, Deepwater Horizon, Lone Survivor, Planet of the Apes - even that he movie was a pile of steaming excrement), his performances were pretty damned good.

Put it this way... I'd have him over Nicholas Cage any day
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:02 PM   #489
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Yeah but he's so damned ugly.

Plus he was also in The Happening.
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:11 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Someone's going to have to explain to me why anyone would want to pay Mark Whalberg for anything.
He shows up, hits his mark, and delivers his lines?
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:11 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That might be the case from your POV but I'm wondering about the actual reasons why star X is paid more than star Y. It's easy to stand on the outside, take JLaw's rant at face value without further information and feel right in our conclusion.
It's not like JLaw has a history of spouting off without knowing what she's talking about...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0cad15e656b3f
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:12 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yeah but he's so damned ugly.
Given the general tenor of this thread, that is a somewhat sexist remark
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:14 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That might be the case from your POV but I'm wondering about the actual reasons why star X is paid more than star Y. It's easy to stand on the outside, take JLaw's rant at face value without further information and feel right in our conclusion.
I'm sure there is some logic to the discrepancy. But I'm convinced that at the core, the issue is related to how women are valued in our society. The number of roles for women are less and they are much more easily discarded for a younger actress even as their popularity grows. A woman unless she's Meryl Streep reaches 35 and the available roles diminish significantly. They are quickly replaced by the young cheaper injenue only to see the pattern repeated.
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:17 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm sure there is some logic to the discrepancy. But I'm convinced that at the core, the issue is related to how women are valued in our society. The number of roles for women are less and they are much more easily discarded for a younger actress even as their popularity grows. A woman unless she's Meryl Streep reaches 35 and the available roles diminish significantly. They are quickly replaced by the young cheaper injenue only to see the pattern repeated.
I dislike the use of the highlighted word in this context because it's far too loaded; essentially it assumes a conclusion. I don't think it's about the value of women but the dynamic of how people of both genders are seen through time in this industry.
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:27 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Someone's going to have to explain to me why anyone would want to pay Mark Whalberg for anything.
Check out "The Basketball Diaries" from when he and DiCaprio (sp?) were younger. It was made back in the 1990's. It was pre-Titanic for DiCaprio and not long after Marky-Mark and the Funky Bunch for Wahlberg. I though he was good in "The Perfect Storm" too.

I don't know about ugly. He was a Calvin Klein model back years ago. Besides. That said, not all people are perfect looking. I have no problem with a "real" looking actor.

I'm not saying you have to like him, just suggesting that there are some things that could possibly give you a broader picture of his appeal.
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:27 PM   #496
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Isn't an actor/actress's pay largely a function of what their particular presence in a film is likely to draw in profits?

Adam Sandler is, at this point, a terrible actor in terrible films.
Yet films he is in make money.

Basically any film actor or actress you can think of are more talented. Yet he makes more money than most.
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:39 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Isn't an actor/actress's pay largely a function of what their particular presence in a film is likely to draw in profits?

Adam Sandler is, at this point, a terrible actor in terrible films.
Yet films he is in make money.

Basically any film actor or actress you can think of are more talented. Yet he makes more money than most.
Yep.

For an old example, look at Dumb and Dumber. Jeff Bridges was paid $50k, compared to Carrey's $7 million.
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:44 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
Yep.

For an old example, look at Dumb and Dumber. Jeff Bridges was paid $50k, compared to Carrey's $7 million.
Crazy.
What did they pay Jeff Daniels?
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:46 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
My 2c....

As a middle-aged, middle-class, white man, it's not really my prerogative to say whether or not #MeToo has gone too far. I have never been subject to the kind of institutional abuse and/or discrimination that women have suffered and so it would be a bit rich for me to say "OK ladies, you've had your bit of a whine - now shut up".

If Catherine Deneuve thinks things have gone too far then she is perfectly entitled to say so, I'm sure that you can find at least one contrary view to any point within an heterogeneous group of individuals. She's also perfectly entitled to receive any criticism coming her way if that view isn't supported.

"clumsy flirting is not an offense", but then again the line between clumsy flirting and sexual assault and/or bullying isn't a clean one and to a certain extent is also dependent on the parties involved and the relationship between them. Making clumsy advances towards a single person of about the same age in a nightclub may be interpreted by that person very differently than making the same clumsy advances towards a much younger, married, subordinate who really, really, needs the job, in the workplace.

I certainly find the #MeToo movement uncomfortable because it exposes some very ugly truths. Of course there's a danger that it might get hijacked to a certain extent but at the core is the unacceptable treatment of a lot of women by a lot of men. There is a real incentive to play this down which is one of the reasons why Ms Deneuve's comments have been so eagerly seized upon.
Just one point is like to make.

Why don't you get an opinion? If a Christian tells you how persecuted they are, do you tale the same route?

Honest question but where is the line of what we are "allowed" to have an opinion on? I can't see a way to actually follow your philosophy ( versus just do it wily nilly , which will tend to be the same thing one was doing before but branded different) without not being able to challenge people, or just being a hypocrite.

What do I know of being a conspiracy theorist? Can't have an opinion.

What do I know of being a ghost hunter? Can't have an opinion.

Etc etc.

For my two cents, I often just see people saying they follow this philosophy, but it only seems to come up in regards to acceptable groups. I have little faith in this philosophy for that very reason. Either one needs to take statements of hardship by groups they are not a part of at face value, or it is okay and beneficial to debate opinions with all groups. These are incompatible with each other as philosophical standpoints but I have never seen someone who professes to follow this philosophy actually use it beyond a way of saying "I'm inclusive".

Tldr : why is this philosophy impossible to actually apply? I've never seen anyone apply it for anyone other than groups they support.
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Old 12th January 2018, 01:47 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Crazy.
What did they pay Jeff Daniels?
Bah.

That's what I get for mixing up Jeffs.
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Old 12th January 2018, 03:16 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
No. The poster is pointing out multiple types of victim-blaming. This does not equate the types of victims.
That isn't what I took from the post, nor was it what mike81 or, I think, 3point14 took from it, so its not just me!

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
And I already pointed out the problems with concerns over #starerape in post 395.
Well, you might see problems, I don't
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Old 12th January 2018, 03:34 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
That isn't what I took from the post, nor was it what mike81 or, I think, 3point14 took from it, so its not just me!
Intentionally misunderstanding something so that you can have outrage instead of discussion is indeed a popular thing to do.

But appealing to the popularity of a bad behavioral doesn't actually excuse the bad behavior.
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Old 12th January 2018, 03:53 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
Bah.

That's what I get for mixing up Jeffs.
It's generally not that hard to do!!!!!
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Old 12th January 2018, 03:54 PM   #504
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And when you add Geoffs it's even easier!!!!!
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Old 12th January 2018, 04:35 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
That isn't what I took from the post, nor was it what mike81 or, I think, 3point14 took from it, so its not just me!
Company or no company, the poster did not say that rape and leering are morally, legally, or otherwise equivalent.



Quote:
Well, you might see problems, I don't
By all means, point out my errors. Let's weigh the evidence and form a rational conclusion.
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Old 12th January 2018, 05:39 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Company or no company, the poster did not say that rape and leering are morally, legally, or otherwise equivalent.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Intentionally misunderstanding something so that you can have outrage instead of discussion is indeed a popular thing to do.
Because comprehension is out of fashion and reading between the lines is wrong.

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
By all means, point out my errors. Let's weigh the evidence and form a rational conclusion.
Who said anything about errors

You saw problems with #starerape, I didn't. Perhaps that could be because you "honestly couldn't find any non-sarcastic examples after browsing through 30 or so tweets"

YMMV
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Old 12th January 2018, 06:29 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You saw problems with #starerape, I didn't. Perhaps that could be because you "honestly couldn't find any non-sarcastic examples after browsing through 30 or so tweets"

YMMV
I'll lay out my case as clearly as I possibly can.

If you click here you will see every use of the #starerape hashtag on Twitter, organized by date. I looked at every single post over the past year. The vast majority of users are not being serious. Others are asking if "stare rape" is real. A handful of tweets are not in English (to be clear, I did not translate them, so I have no idea what they're actually saying). There is not a single accusation against another person of committing "stare rape." There is not a single instance of an individual claiming to be a victim of "stare rape."

We must also consider the fact that the #metoo campaign started last year, so if there is any overlap on Twitter, we would have seen it in our search. From this, we can draw several conclusions:

1. #metoo has absolutely nothing to do with "stare rape." As such, nothing about "stare rape" can possibly indict the #metoo campaign.
2. Given that there are people who seem to be actually concerned that there are "stare rape" accusations, even though there are not, the concern heavily outweighs the object of the concern. It's essentially the same as people complaining that they're not allowed to say "Merry Christmas" any more.
3. Anyone stating that the existence of #starerape is a cause of concern is allowing their beliefs to be influenced by baseless rumor-mongering, in a most unskeptical fashion.

If you find a flaw in any of my conclusions, please point it out.
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Old 12th January 2018, 06:54 PM   #508
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I'll lay out my case as clearly as I possibly can.

If you click here you will see every use of the #starerape hashtag on Twitter, organized by date. I looked at every single post over the past year. The vast majority of users are not being serious. Others are asking if "stare rape" is real. A handful of tweets are not in English (to be clear, I did not translate them, so I have no idea what they're actually saying). There is not a single accusation against another person of committing "stare rape." There is not a single instance of an individual claiming to be a victim of "stare rape."

We must also consider the fact that the #metoo campaign started last year, so if there is any overlap on Twitter, we would have seen it in our search. From this, we can draw several conclusions:

1. #metoo has absolutely nothing to do with "stare rape." As such, nothing about "stare rape" can possibly indict the #metoo campaign.
2. Given that there are people who seem to be actually concerned that there are "stare rape" accusations, even though there are not, the concern heavily outweighs the object of the concern. It's essentially the same as people complaining that they're not allowed to say "Merry Christmas" any more.
3. Anyone stating that the existence of #starerape is a cause of concern is allowing their beliefs to be influenced by baseless rumor-mongering, in a most unskeptical fashion.

If you find a flaw in any of my conclusions, please point it out.
Maybe victims don't report stare rape because they realize they will get dogpiled. I would not be surprised... I'd be right there dogpiling on them myself.

Who cares anyway? The fact remains that there are people drawing an inference that staring at a woman's cleavage is sexual abuse every bit a serious as rape and therefore should be considered to be the same thing.

I despise this widening of the target zone to include such stuff, because it takes a away from the seriousness of REAL rape, you know, when a person uses their power, whether physical strength, or position of control and influence, to force another person to have a sexual encounter with them, whether it be actual intercourse or other sexual contact (keeping in mind, of course, that rape is not about sex so much as it is about power and control)

These people cheapen and demean the experiences of real rape victims, and make it less likely that those victims will come forward. I applaud the #metoo and #timesup movements for doing what they have done in outing some real ratbags, but I hate what they have become thanks to SJW's and feminazi bandwagon jumpers turning a geniuine movement for change into a witch hunt.
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Old 12th January 2018, 07:00 PM   #509
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Aw man, not Steven Seagal. Anyone but Steven Seagal. I just don't know what to believe in anymore. Shut it down. Just shut it all down.
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Old 12th January 2018, 07:08 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Makin the other person uncomfortable. It's not as hard to say "I'm sorry" as the song says, and it makes everyone a little less sad.
Dude, if I apologized to everyone I made uncomfortable I'd spend half my day saying sorry just walking through the mall wearing a misfits shirt.

But I'm gonna read the future and assume that fussy Christians are okay to bother in your book. Which isn't too say I don't think that, but I also don't hypocritically and arbitrarily decide groups that I do care if I offend.

Personally I expect everyone, myself included to have the fortitude to put up with a bit of other people's ****. It's how society doesn't turn into the stumble **** of people being scared ******** over making minor social faux pas people like you seem to want.
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Old 12th January 2018, 07:16 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
See, that's exactly the problem, men are emphatically not "any less creeps" than they used to be. The difference is, now women are realizing that they don't have to tolerate men being creeps anymore, that they can actually do something about it; and creeper men are getting all butthurt that they can't sleaze on women anymore without being called on their ****** behaviour and treated like the pieces of **** they are.
Creeper men don't care, and are actively laughing at you on reddit as we speak, or finding you online to rule you up. It's what gets them off.

The people complaining are generally those caught in the crossfire that some den acceptable losses in the social war.
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Old 12th January 2018, 07:20 PM   #512
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You were sexually harassed. How you felt about those events is irrelevant to that point.
Your opinion over rules the victim, that's very progressive.

By your logic anyone committing sex acts you wouldn't like is being assaulted.

Your philosophy is unrealistic and makes no sense.
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Old 12th January 2018, 07:23 PM   #513
Polaris
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Your opinion over rules the victim, that's very progressive.

By your logic anyone committing sex acts you wouldn't like is being assaulted.

Your philosophy is unrealistic and makes no sense.
Just don't.
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Old 12th January 2018, 07:25 PM   #514
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
Just don't.
Great point.

Notice you didn't show I was wrong, but great point.
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Old 12th January 2018, 07:39 PM   #515
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Great point.

Notice you didn't show I was wrong, but great point.
I mean just don't indulge Bob.
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Old 12th January 2018, 07:49 PM   #516
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
I mean just don't indulge Bob.
This is good life advice from a wise sage.
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Old 12th January 2018, 07:52 PM   #517
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The fact remains that there are people drawing an inference that staring at a woman's cleavage is sexual abuse every bit a serious as rape and therefore should be considered to be the same thing.
Evidence?
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Old 12th January 2018, 08:15 PM   #518
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It's one thing to not blame the woman with cleavage showing because some ass took it as an invitation. That's a given.

But why are women wearing cleavage revealing clothes if they don't want to be admired?
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Old 12th January 2018, 08:28 PM   #519
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Evidence?
Read the whole thread from Post #1. I'm not doing your homework for you
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Old 12th January 2018, 08:37 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
But why are women wearing cleavage revealing clothes if they don't want to be admired?
Because they only want to be admired by a specific subset of men. You see, men are supposed to be mind-readers; they are expected to know whether or not the display of knockers is targeted at them. If they are not in the privileged subset of men to which the display is directed, they are also supposed to know.

It is of course ALWAYS the man's fault for not knowing!
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Last edited by smartcooky; 12th January 2018 at 08:46 PM.
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