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13 victims, ages 2 to 29, kept shackled by parents

ddt said:
I think you miss the point I'm trying to make, so let me try again.

There's no way to convict one parent and acquit the other.
The "lewd act" the father is accused of, but the mother not, is a contrast to what I'm arguing. That's indeed something that the mother didn't do and that can have escaped her attention.

But the torture through malnourishment, locking them up, depriving them of anything resembling education, and shackling for days on end, is an ongoing 24/7 process that must have been carried out by both parents. There's no way that has only been carried out by one parent without the other knowing and thus participating. Both parents are responsible for raising their kids.

So if that all is established as fact, both parents must be guilty. At most, the attorney of one of them can try to argue that the other set it up and that their client should receive some leniency in the sentencing.
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It happens. Different lawyers, different juries sometimes result in different outcomes. Weird, I know, but say one was convicted before the other- should they be denied their day in court?
 
TheGoldcountry said:
It happens. Different lawyers, different juries sometimes result in different outcomes. Weird, I know, but say one was convicted before the other- should they be denied their day in court?
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Fair enough, with two separate trials I can see how that could work out. But they'll have one, joint trial, won't they, with one jury hearing all the evidence against both? I can't see how one jury could come to such a conclusion.
 
Trebuchet said:
If there aren't enough public defenders available, yes. Attorneys are encouraged to do such work pro bono.
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Firms generally register to be in a rotation to take such cases. I would be surprised if the PD doesn't at least get a private attorney to back him up.

I'm interested to see what the wife and her attorneys do. The only defense I can see possible is her claiming she was coerced by the husband and was a victim herself.

The guy here is just royally **********. I can't imagine what the defense could present and the prosecutors will have no trouble meeting their burden. Maybe his lawyer can quibble on some details and get a few of the charges thrown out and end up with a shorter sentence. Turpin though is 56, so, he maybe cuts the current potential of 94 years in half, that's 47 years, still life. Knock off time for good behavior and he's out in his 80s. Anyone really loving his odds of getting concurrent sentences?
 
ddt said:
I think you miss the point I'm trying to make, so let me try again.

There's no way to convict one parent and acquit the other.

The "lewd act" the father is accused of, but the mother not, is a contrast to what I'm arguing. That's indeed something that the mother didn't do and that can have escaped her attention.

But the torture through malnourishment, locking them up, depriving them of anything resembling education, and shackling for days on end, is an ongoing 24/7 process that must have been carried out by both parents. There's no way that has only been carried out by one parent without the other knowing and thus participating. Both parents are responsible for raising their kids.

So if that all is established as fact, both parents must be guilty. At most, the attorney of one of them can try to argue that the other set it up and that their client should receive some leniency in the sentencing.
Click to expand...

Theoretically, the mother could present a defense that she was a victim of ******* husband and coerced into performing her role. I can't imagine another defense from her. She'd have to play along with her lawyers so it will be interesting to see if she goes that route.
 
Craig4 said:
Theoretically, the mother could present a defense that she was a victim of ******* husband and coerced into performing her role. I can't imagine another defense from her. She'd have to play along with her lawyers so it will be interesting to see if she goes that route.
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She could certainly try. The success of such a gamble will of course depend on what the children have to say about her role in the abuse during their testimony.
 
Craig4 said:
Theoretically, the mother could present a defense that she was a victim of ******* husband and coerced into performing her role. I can't imagine another defense from her. She'd have to play along with her lawyers so it will be interesting to see if she goes that route.
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Yeah, but does that absolve her of guilt? She has a responsibility to feed her children. If her husband coerces her not to, she could and should have run to the police or CPS to report it. I'd think that defense would only lessen her portion of the blame, but not acquit her.
 
Craig4 said:
Theoretically, the mother could present a defense that she was a victim of ******* husband and coerced into performing her role. I can't imagine another defense from her. She'd have to play along with her lawyers so it will be interesting to see if she goes that route.
Click to expand...
Could try

She could say her showing she didn't want to do it was "non-verbal". While she did it
 
Question: How can these kids be helped? And what is the likely outcome? If people have gotten into their teens and 20s with no education, limited exposure to the outside world, and pretty much continuous physical and mental abuse, including starvation, how much damage can be repaired? How long would it take them to learn to read and write on the high school level, if they have to start from scratch? What physical deficits can be overcome? How can they learn to interact with other children their own age, who are very likely to shun them as weird? Will they be able to hold jobs? Etc.
 
William Parcher said:
Did you look at the titles? Hundreds of kids movies. And you are claiming that the parents only ever indulged themselves? I'm a skeptic.
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Has anyone claimed the kids never watched the DVDs?

They didn't play with the toys, we know that because they're still in the packaging. They probably did play the games. We know that the parents indulged themselves with food because they're not malnourished, we know the kids were not fed enough because they are malnourished.

And it's likely somewhere in that video library is where they learned about 911 and cell phones.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 
ddt said:
Is it customary that the court appoints a private attorney when there's a public defender's office?
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It depends on the resources of the area. Some places have a large and diverse public defender's office. Others have private attorneys who sign up to take on pro bono cases. Still others may have a judge appoint a private attorney with some specialized knowledge of an otherwise unusual area of law.

ddt said:
Fair enough, with two separate trials I can see how that could work out. But they'll have one, joint trial, won't they, with one jury hearing all the evidence against both? I can't see how one jury could come to such a conclusion.
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Two lawyers definitely means they'll blame each other. The case will probably largely be decided by whether they're tried together or separately. A separate trial would be great news for the mother (always the mother). A joint trial would be more difficult.
 
Bob001 said:
Question: How can these kids be helped? And what is the likely outcome? If people have gotten into their teens and 20s with no education, limited exposure to the outside world, and pretty much continuous physical and mental abuse, including starvation, how much damage can be repaired? How long would it take them to learn to read and write on the high school level, if they have to start from scratch? What physical deficits can be overcome? How can they learn to interact with other children their own age, who are very likely to shun them as weird? Will they be able to hold jobs? Etc.
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You may have heard of it, but the case below was a lot lot lot lot worse and apparently the kids are doing not bad, given the circumstances

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case
 
Last edited:
cullennz said:
You may have heard of it, but the case below was a lot lot lot lot worse and apparently the kids are doing not bad, given the circumstances

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case
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Did you read it all? "Not bad," but not great either.
Berthold Kepplinger, head of the clinic where Elisabeth and her children were being treated, said that Elisabeth and the three children held captive in the cellar required further therapy to help them adjust to the light after years in semi-darkness. They also needed treatment to help them cope with all the extra space that they now had in which to move about.[53]
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It sounds like they're adapting as best they can. The will to survive can be strong. But it's hard to believe they could ever be "normal," however you define it.
 
Bob001 said:
Did you read it all? "Not bad," but not great either.


It sounds like they're adapting as best they can. The will to survive can be strong. But it's hard to believe they could ever be "normal," however you define it.
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A I said it was a lot lot lot lot worse
B I never said "normal"

Nice attempted twisting though
 
This bickering is needless. I think we can all agree the kids have a rough road ahead. But they are fortunate to have been discovered in an area with plentiful resources compared to say small-town Texas where they had lived previously. Who knows, but hopefully they'll be able to recover without too much hardship.
 
Checkmite said:
I saw a few kids movies; hardly hundreds. In fact it seemed to me that children's movies didn't even comprise the bulk of the collection, just to tell from the few photographs provided.

There's nothing wrong with being skeptical.

My own approach is that, no matter what you may think you see in them, a handful of group still photographs taken two or three years ago or even more do not provide sufficiently-compelling evidence to suspect the local police of lying or exaggerating in their report about the nauseating condition of the home and the children when they entered the residence a couple of days ago. If nothing else, the fact that the children are still in the hospital recovering as of the latest reports, supports the contention that they were in bad shape.
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Who will pay for their medical bills?
 
Craig4 said:
Theoretically, the mother could present a defense that she was a victim of ******* husband and coerced into performing her role. I can't imagine another defense from her. She'd have to play along with her lawyers so it will be interesting to see if she goes that route.
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Why couldn't he use the same defence he was coerced by his wife?
 
Darat said:
Why couldn't he use the same defence he was coerced by his wife?
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It's probably problematic for him to use that as an affirmative defense if he's also got the lewd act with a child charge. Prosecutors and jurors aren't likely to be sympathetic a battered husband defense presented by someone who engaged in an act of sexual predation.
 
cullennz said:
Could try

She could say her showing she didn't want to do it was "non-verbal". While she did it
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Any defense she mounts is going to be a Hail Mary play. The prosecutors are going to meet their burden. The doctors, sheriff deputies statements and pictures and video are going to slay these two. She's going to need to offer an affirmative defense and that's pretty much it for her.
 
His public defender is quoted as saying that he will engage a "vigorous defense", and that the case will be tried in court and not in public.

I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt to have the trial location moved.
 
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