Bitcoin - Part 2

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I did some internet searches on this.

The concept is fine. You buy one ounce of gold, get a block-chain transaction showing you own the gold, and one ounce of physical gold is taken from their stock and put into a depository for you (and future owners as people transact with it).

Problems.
1. The gold can be stolen from the Perth Mint depository. In 1982 68 kilograms were stolen and never recovered.

2. You may be buying gold that the mint says is stored for you but is only "paper-gold", meaning they don't actually have the gold in the depository, and could not meet the demand if everyone cashed in. Like fractional banking. See the link:
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/02/warning-about-perth-mint-gold.html

3. The gold could be confiscated by the government.

4. There is a limited supply of gold, but the price is determined by the gold market and not the demand for this "crypto-gold". It is likely to run out rocket up in price. Apparently there is not a lot of gold that they have for sale in the first place.

FTFY. :o

The mint is owned by the Government. :thumbsup:

If this thing takes off they will be able to buy as much gold as they need to. If the price goes up they don't need as much gold anyway.

I can quite confidently say that this will kill bitcoin. :boxedin:
 
FTFY. :o

The mint is owned by the Government. :thumbsup:

If this thing takes off they will be able to buy as much gold as they need to. If the price goes up they don't need as much gold anyway.

I can quite confidently say that this will kill bitcoin. :boxedin:


You clearly did not read the reference I gave. Here are some relevant parts.

http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/02/warning-about-perth-mint-gold.html

...For instance, in 2002, its financial statement showed that the Mint had approximately 4.5 times more debt than equity ($96.2 million of gold on hand against $234 million of liabilities). In 2006, the leverage ratio had increased above 18.

...Australia has a relatively high risk of gold confiscation theft because Australian law already has a mechanism in place to require delivery of gold to the Reserve Bank of Au stralia (RBA).

...Another cause for concern with Perth Mint certificates is Australia's vanishing gold reserves. In addition to selling nearly 200 tons of gold in the twenty years, Australia's remaining 80 tonnes of gold are probably encumbered:


You have missed the part where the attraction is a STABLE price locked to market price of gold - actual gold. Speculation then cannot drive up the price.

When I bought a couple of Kruger Rands, the price was the spot price of gold plus a small commission, and I took delivery of the gold. I can sell it at the spot price of gold at any coin exchange within minutes.
 
You clearly did not read the reference I gave. Here are some relevant parts.




You have missed the part where the attraction is a STABLE price locked to market price of gold - actual gold. Speculation then cannot drive up the price.

When I bought a couple of Kruger Rands, the price was the spot price of gold plus a small commission, and I took delivery of the gold. I can sell it at the spot price of gold at any coin exchange within minutes.
A link to a link to a link. ...
 
I just had lunch with a group of retired guys. Most were successful bank managers, big corporate managers, lawyers, directors and so on. I am the odd one out on that score.

Most said they would not even gamble in bitcoin because it had no underlying function or value.

One guy said to me he had invested big a couple of years ago and is now a wealthy bitcoin owner. He even visited a large mining site in Seattle, and seems to be involved in mining.

He will not sell, saying this is dip is one of many. He is confident it will rise once more and exceed $20,000.

My parting words were "Be careful you do not get bit by bitcoin."
 
Just a note.

Yesterday was the first time I found an Ebay auction that specified a discount for paying with crypto (not bitcoin specifically) currency.
 
A million is logically possible but would accord the gross value as greater than the US national debt.
Zero dollars I doubt is possible wirth human nature in play.
1 to 100 dollars would seem reasonable, and would be my pick within 12 months as the market digests the infinite nature of the supply side of cryptos, and replaces the brand effect of bitcoin with reason.
 
A million is logically possible but would accord the gross value as greater than the US national debt.
Zero dollars I doubt is possible wirth human nature in play.
1 to 100 dollars would seem reasonable, and would be my pick within 12 months as the market digests the infinite nature of the supply side of cryptos, and replaces the brand effect of bitcoin with reason.


Boy you sure backpedaled fast.
$500 by end of january and penny dreadful by june.
 
A million is logically possible but would accord the gross value as greater than the US national debt.
Zero dollars I doubt is possible wirth human nature in play.
1 to 100 dollars would seem reasonable, and would be my pick within 12 months as the market digests the infinite nature of the supply side of cryptos, and replaces the brand effect of bitcoin with reason.
Not if it's backed by gold ;)
 
Sounds like we have come full circle.

From a technical perspective it looks like a decent rally coming here to around 15000.
Weird.
Do you think so? It's been around $11,500 for days now, and immediately before that it was a good bit higher.
 
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Sounds like we have come full circle.

From a technical perspective it looks like a decent rally coming here to around 15000.
Weird.


I do not see a rally. Less volatility and not much movement. Seems like people are waiting for some sort of direction.

No more people jumping in to buy, and people holding in the hope it will go up.

I too am waiting to see what will happen. I doubt it will climb.
 
If it was a stock price index I would be long from the chart, let's see. It's an offence against nature to buy bitcoin but as psion10 says....
 
I am watching the series "Continuum". About corporates ruling the world.

In S3:E7 it is the year 2077. One group decides to ransom a wanted man. He offers them "a million credits, payable in Bitcoin". It is science fiction/fantasy.
 
There was a rally, around 11500 to 12200.
That satisfied the algo.
I am more bearish than before, time to liquidate bitcoin now. Go short on the futures market, though they are cleverly only giving 30 day windows with liquidity, and everyone must roll.
 
Bitcoin's price could crash by up to 80 per cent

Tether: ‘Without this scam bitcoin price would collapse’: Fears grow over tether ‘printing press’ as auditors part ways
BITCOIN could crash up to 80 per cent if it turns out the price has been artificially pumped up by controversial crytpocurrency tether, analysts have warned.

Tether, a so-called “stablecoin” which aims to maintain a value of one US dollar per tether, has been described as the “ticking time bomb” of the cryptocurrency world which could trigger the next “bloodbath” similar to the 2014 collapse of the Mt. Gox exchange...

Bitfinex has been accused of creating tether out of thin air, without corresponding US dollar deposits, in order to pump up the price of bitcoin. While Bitfinex insists all new “USDT” are backed by real dollar deposits, new tether issuances have coincided with dips in the price of bitcoin...

Professor Nicholas Weaver from UC Berkeley’s International Computer Science Institute has warned of a “bloodbath” in cryptocurrency prices if the “Tether printing press ever breaks”.

“At current prices, net new bitcoin requires $US18 million of net new $ flowing in to maintain the price,” he wrote on Twitter. “Yet there is a net $US100 million per day of fake $s in the form of tethers.”

New York University professor of economics Nouriel Roubini agreed. “Indeed tether/USDT used to manipulate bitcoin prices,” he wrote.

Without this bitcoin price would collapse by 80 per cent. Regulators asleep at the wheel while $US2 billion of fake $ created, half of it since December. Not even North Korea created so many fake $ backed by nothing.”
 
There's a lot of "woulda/coulda/shoulda"s in that article and the 80% figure seems to have been plucked straight out of the air.

Remarks such as “At current prices, net new bitcoin requires $US18 million of net new $ flowing in to maintain the price,” suggest that the article should be taken with a healthy dose of salt. There is no established nexus between "tether" and bitcoin prices and we are only talking about one exchange.
 
There must be a new theory to replace the "greater fool theory", namely the "bigger monkey theory".


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/entry/bananacoin-cryptocurrency_us_5a6b637ce4b01fbbefb16713

This sounds like a bad line in a “Planet of the Apes” film, but there’s now a cryptocurrency based on bananas.

It’s called Bananacoin, and was co-founded by entrepreneurs Oleg Dobrovolsky and Alexander Bychkov.

They distribute “tokens” using the Ethereum blockchain, a decentralized data application often used for cryptocurrency.

Every token ― equal in value to the current export price of 1 kilogram of bananas ― is essentially stock in a real organic banana plantation in Laos, where the creators are based. Those bananas are harvested and sold in neighboring China, where the Bananacoin group says the fruit’s demand is larger than the supply.

Bananacoins have been available since their presale in September 2017, but most of the internet heard about them this month thanks to this tweet.

We live in a post-parody society where it's impossible to invent anything more ridiculous than reality pic.twitter.com/HPGekRKENz
— Zack Bloom (@zackbloom) January 20, 2018
 
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There must be a new theory to replace the "greater fool theory", namely the "bigger monkey theory".
Why do you automatically assume that this is a scam?

The Bananacoin group is using the TGE crowdfunding model to raise funds for the expansion of a banana plantation in Laos from 100 Ha to 360 Ha.

It is not without risk but I would have thought that a token that has a material backing would be preferable to a cryptocurrency that has no backing.

https://bananacoin.io/files/White_Paper_Bananacoin_en.pdf
 
Why do you automatically assume that this is a scam?

The Bananacoin group is using the TGE crowdfunding model to raise funds for the expansion of a banana plantation in Laos from 100 Ha to 360 Ha.

It is not without risk but I would have thought that a token that has a material backing would be preferable to a cryptocurrency that has no backing.

https://bananacoin.io/files/White_Paper_Bananacoin_en.pdf
A material backing that rots after a few days, and fluctuates wildly in price from moment to moment? Imagine the pong that'll come out of Ft Knox when the USA goes on to the banana standard.
 
I confess I don't know much about bitcoin, like somebody like Max Keiser, but it seems to me that it is not a security token. At least real money is still a bit regulated, though the banks are fighting that, and it now has no gold backing, but there is still confidence in a dollar standard with other commodity backing.
 
If you like "banana money', here's some, with a picture of that fruit engraved on it. But not from the USA; from the Japanese occupation of the Netherlands Indies (as then was) in 1942.
 
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Why do you automatically assume that this is a scam?

The Bananacoin group is using the TGE crowdfunding model to raise funds for the expansion of a banana plantation in Laos from 100 Ha Hahas to 360 Ha Hahas.

It is not without risk but I would have thought that a token that has a material backing would be preferable to a cryptocurrency that has no backing.

https://bananacoin.io/files/White_Paper_Bananacoin_en.pdf


Fixed that for you.
 
To quote Mark Twain "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
I had not heard that one, but absolutely excellent.
Meanwhile Bitcoin is closing at lowest level since November.
Yes, this does matter. I keep expecting a freefall episode. I suspect it is Asian money at work propping the thing up. I refuse to believe anyone on planet America is still being suckered.
 
I had not heard that one, but absolutely excellent.
Meanwhile Bitcoin is closing at lowest level since November.
Yes, this does matter. I keep expecting a freefall episode. I suspect it is Asian money at work propping the thing up. I refuse to believe anyone on planet America is still being suckered.
This time planet America has the Libertarians and other "anarcho-capitalists" who have an ideological affection for cryptos and have set themselves up to be suckered.

They reject regulation of the currency as the evil work of the Feds. Needless to say scammers noticed this predisposition and have exploited it to the full, like tent hall revivalists deftly emptying the pockets of naive biblical literalist hillbillies.
 
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This time planet America has the Libertarians and other "anarcho-capitalists" who have an ideological affection for cryptos and have set themselves up to be suckered.

They reject regulation of the currency as the evil work of the Feds. Needless to say scammers noticed this predisposition and have exploited it to the full, like tent hall revivalists deftly emptying the pockets of naive biblical literalist hillbillies.


Yes. This scam has got a group of people believing and having faith. The prophets are the ones who have made a ton of money in the past. Satan and his demons are the elite and governments -which probably has hint of truth.

This site has added a trading indicator - a meter indicating buy or sell. It has been in the sell region for the past two days.

https://www.bitcoinzar.co.za/bitcoin-price-chart/

It has the following labels - strong sell, sell, neutral, buy and strong buy.

I think the extremes should be labeled as panic sell and manic buy.
 
This site has added a trading indicator - a meter indicating buy or sell. It has been in the sell region for the past two days.

https://www.bitcoinzar.co.za/bitcoin-price-chart/
It is hardly surprising that you would refer to Bitfinex - the exchange that is embroiled in controversy over its "tether" currency.

You don't care about the quality of your sources - only that they say something negative about bitcoin.
 
It is hardly surprising that you would refer to Bitfinex - the exchange that is embroiled in controversy over its "tether" currency.

You don't care about the quality of your sources - only that they say something negative about bitcoin.


It is local currency and I like it's display.

Do you have a better one?
 
No idea of the technicalities involved here, but thought others might find it interesting and/or know more.

Bitcoin - the Revenue comes calling (BBC)

It is that time of year many a self-employed person dreads, the deadline to submit your tax return and pay anything you owe. But this year there is a question a select few should be asking themselves - have I profited from my investment in crypto-currencies?

If you have, you could be liable for tax.
 
It is local currency and I like it's display.

Do you have a better one?
I've been using this site but its saying a bad thing about Bitcoin too. Down by half from its peak and recommended Sell.

Psion must have a source saying it's gone up, and with strong buy advice. Perhaps he could link us to it.

I've seen an ad telling me to buy Etherium cos it's gonna go up 49,000%.

What is coin mama saying about Bitcoin now? She's been remarkably bullish in the past, and you can buy by credit card on her site.
 
I've been using this site but its saying a bad thing about Bitcoin too.
That's the same bitfinex site. That makes two posters who judge a site purely on its negativity towards bitcoin.

Psion must have a source saying it's gone up, and with strong buy advice. Perhaps he could link us to it.
Of course not! Only an idiot would trust a source that claims to know which way the price of bitcoin is headed.
 
That's the same bitfinex site. That makes two posters who judge a site purely on its negativity towards bitcoin.
If you show me a site with a buy recommendation showing it hasn't fallen by about half since the peak, I'll link to that too. I use the site I've linked to because the charts are informative and clear.
 
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No, you used that site because "its saying a bad thing about Bitcoin too".


Both CraigB and I used the two sites because they are (as he says) informative and clear.

What is the sound of Bitcoin crashing?
Same as the sound of incoming artillery shell! It went up and now it is coming down.;)
 
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