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Old 8th March 2018, 11:48 AM   #1
Giz
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Corbyn member of closed Facebook hate group

I suppose it's consistent with the other company he likes to keep:

"An anti-Semitism group said evidence gathered by the blogger David Collier suggested Jeremy Corbyn was said to be among members of Palestine Live until just before he became leader in 2015."

"Exchanges by members of the closed Facebook group were said to have included discussions of conspiracy myths about the Rothschild family and supposed Israeli involvement in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, as well as links to material produced by neo-Nazi groups."

"The Campaign Against Anti-Semitism said there was "no conceivable justification" for Mr Corbyn's alleged involvement in the group and that it would be filing a disciplinary complaint to the party against him."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43320296
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Old 8th March 2018, 11:55 AM   #2
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He was doing research just like Pete Townsend was
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Old 8th March 2018, 12:01 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
I suppose it's consistent with the other company he likes to keep:

"An anti-Semitism group said evidence gathered by the blogger David Collier suggested Jeremy Corbyn was said to be among members of Palestine Live until just before he became leader in 2015."

"Exchanges by members of the closed Facebook group were said to have included discussions of conspiracy myths about the Rothschild family and supposed Israeli involvement in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, as well as links to material produced by neo-Nazi groups."

"The Campaign Against Anti-Semitism said there was "no conceivable justification" for Mr Corbyn's alleged involvement in the group and that it would be filing a disciplinary complaint to the party against him."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43320296


He seems an interesting gentleman
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Old 8th March 2018, 12:05 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
He seems an interesting gentleman
Really? Ad hominem? I suppose that is an admission that Corbyn's behavior is indefensible.
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Old 8th March 2018, 12:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Really? Ad hominem? I suppose that is an admission that Corbyn's behavior is indefensible.

Actually no, just googled him, as we all do for sources, and saw a lot about him that seemed controversial. I haven't yet worked out if that's because he's full of **** or because he's been close to things that important people don't want him to be close to because I haven't had time to read any of the things about him.


Everyone seems to think they can read my mind today. It's odd.
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Old 8th March 2018, 12:14 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Actually no, just googled him, as we all do for sources, and saw a lot about him that seemed controversial. I haven't yet worked out if that's because he's full of **** or because he's been close to things that important people don't want him to be close to because I haven't had time to read any of the things about him.


Everyone seems to think they can read my mind today. It's odd.
It just seems a strange thing to focus on: A blogger turns up info, apparently correct, that PM-in-waiting Corbyn has been a member of a hategroup and the Labour Party has started an investigation. 3point14's first response: let's talk about the blogger!
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Old 8th March 2018, 12:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
It just seems a strange thing to focus on: A blogger turns up info, apparently correct, that PM-in-waiting Corbyn has been a member of a hategroup and the Labour Party has started an investigation. 3point14's first response: let's talk about the blogger!

Pretty much the first thing anyone does when presented with new information is ask where it came from, isn't it? Or is that just me?

EDIT: If someone tells you there's a double-decker bus son the moon, do you rush to a telescope or check if it's the Enquirer, the daily sport or the Times that have reported it?
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Old 8th March 2018, 12:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Pretty much the first thing anyone does when presented with new information is ask where it came from, isn't it? Or is that just me?
To the extent of verifying that it is accurate... which this appears to be (Corbyn's spokesperson acknowledged his membership and the Labour Party has opened an investigation). After that, it starts to look like deflection. Who cares about the blogger, shouldn't the focus be on Corbyn?
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Old 8th March 2018, 12:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
To the extent of verifying that it is accurate... which this appears to be (Corbyn's spokesperson acknowledged his membership and the Labour Party has opened an investigation). After that, it starts to look like deflection. Who cares about the blogger, shouldn't the focus be on Corbyn?


I don't know. I haven't got that far with the reading yet.
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Old 8th March 2018, 07:43 PM   #10
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Let's withhold the insidious "guilt by association" judgement for now.
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Old 8th March 2018, 07:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Let's withhold the insidious "guilt by association" judgement for now.
Agreed. People are far too quick to judge a man by the company he keeps.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:04 AM   #12
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It seems rather convenient to accuse a closed Facebook group of being something. How can we verify it is or it isn't. I'm a member of a couple of closed Facebook groups, and people could say all manner of what is being discussed there, even though it's actually generally just stuff about the London Underground and vintage TV. Actually, since some people on the latter insist on talking about The Black and White Minstrel Show and Love Thy Neighbour in a positive light, that must automatically make be a racist by association.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
It seems rather convenient to accuse a closed Facebook group of being something. How can we verify it is or it isn't. I'm a member of a couple of closed Facebook groups, and people could say all manner of what is being discussed there, even though it's actually generally just stuff about the London Underground and vintage TV. Actually, since some people on the latter insist on talking about The Black and White Minstrel Show and Love Thy Neighbour in a positive light, that must automatically make be a racist by association.
The Labour party appears to think it is genuine (from the Guardian ):

"Labour has suspended several party members who posted in a closed Facebook group which featured a number of antisemitic messages."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...facebook-group

Rather telling that corbyn supporters here are all trying to attack the sources rather than engage with what this tells us about corbyn.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:32 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
It seems rather convenient to accuse a closed Facebook group of being something. How can we verify it is or it isn't. I'm a member of a couple of closed Facebook groups, and people could say all manner of what is being discussed there, even though it's actually generally just stuff about the London Underground and vintage TV. Actually, since some people on the latter insist on talking about The Black and White Minstrel Show and Love Thy Neighbour in a positive light, that must automatically make be a racist by association.
I'm not really following this story, but presumably the nature of the group was previously exposed, and Corbyn's involvement is a subsequent exposure.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:37 AM   #15
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I belong to a FB group where a few people sometimes post racist comments, sometimes savage ones.

Do those comments make it a "hate group"?

Do I get tarred as a racist purely through being part of a group where racist comments sometimes appear?

I should think the whole thing depends on the general nature of the group, and the nature and frequency of his contributions to it.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:05 AM   #16
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I think it's worth remembering that everyone posting in this thread subscribes to a discussion group whose members post "discussions of conspiracy myths about the Rothschild family and supposed Israeli involvement in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, as well as links to material produced by neo-Nazi groups;" I've seen all this in the Conspiracy Theories sub-fora. What's rather more important is who has expressed what opinions on those subjects.

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Old 9th March 2018, 10:26 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I think it's worth remembering that everyone posting in this thread subscribes to a discussion group whose members post "discussions of conspiracy myths about the Rothschild family and supposed Israeli involvement in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, as well as links to material produced by neo-Nazi groups;" I've seen all this in the Conspiracy Theories sub-fora. What's rather more important is who has expressed what opinions on those subjects.

Dave
You've beaten me to it, and rather more eloquently. I was about to say that I wouldn't want to be judged solely on my 'association' with some people on this forum.
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Old 9th March 2018, 10:29 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
The Labour party appears to think it is genuine (from the Guardian ):

"Labour has suspended several party members who posted in a closed Facebook group which featured a number of antisemitic messages."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...facebook-group

Rather telling that corbyn supporters here are all trying to attack the sources rather than engage with what this tells us about corbyn.
Out of curiosity could you point these people here and where the attack was happening. I'm asking as I think you are flailing at windmills.
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Old 10th March 2018, 07:28 AM   #19
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Labour MPís are concerned (that he was a member and organized real-life events for some of the worst posters):

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/l...group-1.460429
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Labour MPís are concerned (that he was a member and organized real-life events for some of the worst posters):

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/l...group-1.460429
You seem to have missed my request for support for your claim:
Out of curiosity could you point these people here and where the attack was happening. I'm asking as I think you are flailing at windmills.
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Old 10th March 2018, 10:13 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You seem to have missed my request for support for your claim:
Out of curiosity could you point these people here and where the attack was happening. I'm asking as I think you are flailing at windmills.
Topic is Jeremy Corbyn hobnobbing with anti semites. Darat, info analyst and 3point14 seem to want to discuss anything but that.
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Old 10th March 2018, 10:27 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Topic is Jeremy Corbyn hobnobbing with anti semites. Darat, info analyst and 3point14 seem to want to discuss anything but that.
No I want to discuss the claims you have made. Why do you not want to discuss what you have posted- that is very strange.
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Old 10th March 2018, 10:34 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
No I want to discuss the claims you have made. Why do you not want to discuss what you have posted- that is very strange.
Sure, hereís my claims (stripped of all the derail stuff):


"An anti-Semitism group said evidence gathered by the blogger David Collier suggested Jeremy Corbyn was said to be among members of Palestine Live until just before he became leader in 2015."

"Exchanges by members of the closed Facebook group were said to have included discussions of conspiracy myths about the Rothschild family and supposed Israeli involvement in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, as well as links to material produced by neo-Nazi groups."

"The Campaign Against Anti-Semitism said there was "no conceivable justification" for Mr Corbyn's alleged involvement in the group and that it would be filing a disciplinary complaint to the party against him."


Feel free to discuss them. Iím sure youíll start anytime now. Really, really sure.
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Old 10th March 2018, 11:04 AM   #24
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What exactly makes this "a hate group"?
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Old 10th March 2018, 01:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
What exactly makes this "a hate group"?
The Jew-hatred? I'm just guessing.
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Old 10th March 2018, 01:50 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The Jew-hatred? I'm just guessing.
What Jew hatred exactly? I'm not seeing any, at least not in this thread.
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Old 10th March 2018, 02:02 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
....

"Exchanges by members of the closed Facebook group ISF were said to have included discussions of conspiracy myths about the Rothschild family and supposed Israeli involvement in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, as well as links to material produced by neo-Nazi groups."
Are we all guilty by association?
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Old 10th March 2018, 02:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The Jew-hatred? I'm just guessing.
As a number of people have already pointed out, there has been a fair amount of that on JREF/ISF over the years. Posting through a medium where 'jew hatred' happens doesn't make one a jew hater, does it?

We know sod all about this FB group really. If it was relentlessly devoted to antisemitism then Corbyn did something wrong. If antisemitism occasionally happened there then, well, it's very possible he was just a passer-by.
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Old 10th March 2018, 02:24 PM   #29
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Is criticising Israel because of the bad things they do on the news, antisemitic or jew hating or neither?

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Old 10th March 2018, 03:02 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Is criticising Israel because of the bad things they do on the news, antisemitic or jew hating or neither?
Equating criticism of Israel with antisemitism is strangely rife. If you criticise India you won't be accused of anti-Hinduism. "Italy did a bad thing" = anti Roman Catholic? No.
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:38 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Topic is Jeremy Corbyn hobnobbing with anti semites. Darat, info analyst and 3point14 seem to want to discuss anything but that.
You think wanting to know about the actual context is somehow not discussing it? If a conspiracy theorist claims that X, Y, and Z happen at Bohemian Grove, or during Bilderberg Conferences, or on a Common Purpose course, we'd first ask for the proof that X, Y, or Z actually happened, or that those places/events are what they were claimed to be. We wouldn't accept X, Y, or Z uncritically without proof that they actually happened.

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Old 12th March 2018, 03:16 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
You've beaten me to it, and rather more eloquently. I was about to say that I wouldn't want to be judged solely on my 'association' with some people on this forum.
It would be easier to have that judgement on him if he hadn't already associated, praised and called an anti-Semitic organisation his 'friends'.
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Old 12th March 2018, 03:19 AM   #33
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I think the issue with Corbyn isn't that he is anti-semitic but that he doesn't see it as a big problem and will gladly overlook it.
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Old 12th March 2018, 03:27 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus View Post
I think the issue with Corbyn isn't that he is anti-semitic but that he doesn't see it as a big problem and will gladly overlook it.
Is he prejudiced against Jews or does he criticise Israel's actions and policies sometimes? The two things are not the same
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Old 12th March 2018, 03:37 AM   #35
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It's not the same. However Corbyn's actions show that he will gladly praise organisations that are anti-Semitic, call them his friends, invite them to parliament and then appear on Press Tv and actively listen to anti-Semitic comments from people phoning in without challenging them.
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Old 12th March 2018, 04:32 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus View Post
It's not the same. However Corbyn's actions show that he will gladly praise organisations that are anti-Semitic, call them his friends, invite them to parliament and then appear on Press Tv and actively listen to anti-Semitic comments from people phoning in without challenging them.
Any chance you might name a few and maybe describe the circumstances?
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Old 12th March 2018, 05:36 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Any chance you might name a few and maybe describe the circumstances?
Probably a reference to Hamas. Pretty nasty bunch, basically on the same moral level as the Nazis. Would you be so blasť about a Tory leader calling neo-nazis friends, or does this indifference only apply to one side of politics?
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Old 12th March 2018, 05:54 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Probably a reference to Hamas. Pretty nasty bunch, basically on the same moral level as the Nazis. Would you be so blasť about a Tory leader calling neo-nazis friends, or does this indifference only apply to one side of politics?
Nah. They're terrorists, but they're not Nazis. Nazis are still the worst.
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:00 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Nah. They're terrorists, but they're not Nazis. Nazis are still the worst.
They don't have the power that the Nazis did, but morally I doubt there is much difference.
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Old 12th March 2018, 07:02 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
They don't have the power that the Nazis did, but morally I doubt there is much difference.
Depends on your own values I suppose. "Every other race is inferior to mine" compared to "Palestine for the Palestinians".

I don't agree with either since they are both racist. However, in my view, one is more so than the other.
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