Merged flight attendant forces dog into overhead bin resulting in death

mifune

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A dog has died during a United Airlines flight, after an attendant forced the owners to put the 10-month-old dog in an overhead bin.

Onlookers reported seeing the puppy's owner cradling it in her arms and sobbing, after she discovered her pet was dead when the plane touched down at LaGuardia airport in New York.

Maggie Gremminger, a passenger on the flight from Houston, said a flight attendant told the passenger before take-off that she must put her dog in the overhead bin. She reluctantly agreed, and the dog was reportedly heard barking on takeoff and during some turbulence - before going silent.

United Airline has accepted "full responsibility" for the tragedy, and have launched an investigation.
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https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/dog-dies-united-airlines-flight-overhead-bin-a8254661.html


The airline is so culpable, but taking pets on flights is ******** in the first place.
 
Oh United.... Why do you keep shooting yourself in the foot?

The rate of systemic failures in this airline are beyond the pail; beating up old people, killing pet rabbits, putting passengers on the wrong flight, giving away paying passenger's seats, and now this... killing a puppy.

When will they learn?
 
Reading this made me wonder: If a flight attendant tells you to do something stupid, or takes offense at you for some reason, what can you do? Demand another one? Demand the pilot? In some of these high-profile incidents, it looks like all the attendant has to do is call a passenger "disruptive" and the whole administrative structure, including the cops, lines up against the passenger. What could/should this passenger have done?
 
Are dogs allowed on US internal flights as a matter of routine? I have never seen any animal (well, humans excepted) on any flight anywhere, ever.
 
MikeG said:
Are dogs allowed on US internal flights as a matter of routine? I have never seen any animal (well, humans excepted) on any flight anywhere, ever.
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Yes.

Used to be they had to go in the cargo hold which also led to a number of dog deaths. So small pets are allowed in the cabin as long as they are in a carrier. This was the height of ignorance, some steward fixated on the rules of what fits under the seat and what doesn't. You'd think it would have dawned on the woman she hadn't seen anyone else put animals in the overhead. :mad:

OTOH, if that were my dog I would have checked on it every half hour or so given it was in distress barking constantly.
 
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MikeG said:
Are dogs allowed on US internal flights as a matter of routine? I have never seen any animal (well, humans excepted) on any flight anywhere, ever.
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Yes. In this particular case, the passenger paid extra to travel with the dog in a carrier under the seat, which the attendant should have allowed her to do. More broadly, airlines have started to crack down on what has become something of a scam for people to travel with "emotional support animals" of various kinds, claiming -- without any certification or documentation -- that the animals are necessary to their mental health.
http://www.businessinsider.com/emotional-support-animals-science-psychology-2018-3
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ed-wouldnt-let-it-fly/?utm_term=.69cd53bb9618
 
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It would be a video in itself if anybody instructed me to put my dog into an overheated confined space.
 
LTC8K6 said:
Why would that kill the puppy? I don't think the compartment is air tight or would get hot.

And why wouldn't the owner check on the dog once in a while?
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A compartment doesn't have to be 100% air tight for suffocation to occur. Possibly everytime the owner checked on the dog it started up barking again and/or they were advised that if they didn't disturb it, it would be more likely to quieten down and go to sleep?
 
LTC8K6 said:
Why would that kill the puppy? I don't think the compartment is air tight or would get hot.

And why wouldn't the owner check on the dog once in a while?
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P.J. Denyer said:
A compartment doesn't have to be 100% air tight for suffocation to occur. Possibly everytime the owner checked on the dog it started up barking again and/or they were advised that if they didn't disturb it, it would be more likely to quieten down and go to sleep?
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I just find it incredible that the owner didn't check on it. Obviously they shouldn't have had to do so as the airline staff shouldn't have forced it to be stored in the overhead storage but no way wouldn't I have checked it.

I do wonder if the breed did contribute to the death, they are well known for having respiratory problems caused by the breed standard for flat faces.
 
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"United allows pets in the cabin when they are transported in kennels that can fit under the seat."

Well this is the most functionally useless rule ever. I haven't been on an airplane in my adult lifetime where even the smallest pet carrier could fit under the seat. You're lucky to be able to fit a thick book or laptop under most seats these days.

According to Traveltips.Usatoday the average "underseat" space on planes is about 19 inches square and 9.5 inches tall. The absolute smallest pet carrier I could find on Petsmart's website is a soft sided one (basically a glorified duffel bag with mesh panels) that is 17 x 11 x 10.5. The smallest hard sided pet carrier is 20 x 13 x 11. I see an issue here.

So unless you're traveling with your pet pancake tortoise and you're transporting him in one of those padded envelopes your pet just ain't going under your seat. Can't have them loose in the cabin, can't put the carrier in the aisle, can't hold it on your lap, can't put it in the overhead bin.

It look like the airlines have functionally banned pets in carriers in the cabin without actually updating their rules to ban pets in carriers in the cabin.

ETA: United's website lists the maximum dimension for a "personal item" that can be placed underseat at an smaller than average 9 inches x 10 inches x 17 inches so yeah... pet carriers ain't gonna fit.
 
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Belz... said:
Yeah but sometimes you have to move the pet overseas, so what do you do then? The hold?
What a dick move.
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We shipped our Lab overseas in a crate in the hold. It was the only way to do it.

And yes, this locker business was a dick move, to say the least.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
A compartment doesn't have to be 100% air tight for suffocation to occur. Possibly everytime the owner checked on the dog it started up barking again and/or they were advised that if they didn't disturb it, it would be more likely to quieten down and go to sleep?
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"Wouldn't let owner check on poor dog."

Would probably have been in the headlines.

Wouldn't the owner wonder if there was enough air in there?
 
P.J. Denyer said:
A compartment doesn't have to be 100% air tight for suffocation to occur. Possibly everytime the owner checked on the dog it started up barking again and/or they were advised that if they didn't disturb it, it would be more likely to quieten down and go to sleep?
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In common with other posters I too was wondering why the owners hadn't periodically checked up on the pup. This, or some version of it, seems a logical explanation to me.
 
JoeMorgue said:
"United allows pets in the cabin when they are transported in kennels that can fit under the seat."

Well this is the most functionally useless rule ever. I haven't been on an airplane in my adult lifetime where even the smallest pet carrier could fit under the seat. You're lucky to be able to fit a thick book or laptop under most seats these days.

According to Traveltips.Usatoday the average "underseat" space on planes is about 19 inches square and 9.5 inches tall. The absolute smallest pet carrier I could find on Petsmart's website is a soft sided one (basically a glorified duffel bag with mesh panels) that is 17 x 11 x 10.5. The smallest hard sided pet carrier is 20 x 13 x 11. I see an issue here.

So unless you're traveling with your pet pancake tortoise and you're transporting him in one of those padded envelopes your pet just ain't going under your seat. Can't have them loose in the cabin, can't put the carrier in the aisle, can't hold it on your lap, can't put it in the overhead bin.

It look like the airlines have functionally banned pets in carriers in the cabin without actually updating their rules to ban pets in carriers in the cabin.

ETA: United's website lists the maximum dimension for a "personal item" that can be placed underseat at an smaller than average 9 inches x 10 inches x 17 inches so yeah... pet carriers ain't gonna fit.
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I am amazed that the airplanes continue to maintain this fiction: that the area under the seat is of use for much of anything larger than a purse. I have difficulty putting a modest-size laptop bag under most airline seats. Added to that is I am tall- even placing a small item under the seat in from of me means I have no place for my feet. Not to mention that once I am seated the proximity of the seat back in front of me makes it almost impossible for me to lean forward enough to reach down and access the item under the seat itself.
 
Given that many airlines treat people like animals, what did we expect them to treat animals like?

(and yes, for the literally minded, I know people are animals).
 
Giordano said:
I am amazed that the airplanes continue to maintain this fiction: that the area under the seat is of use for much of anything larger than a purse. I have difficulty putting a modest-size laptop bag under most airline seats. Added to that is I am tall- even placing a small item under the seat in from of me means I have no place for my feet. Not to mention that once I am seated the proximity of the seat back in front of me makes it almost impossible for me to lean forward enough to reach down and access the item under the seat itself.
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In fact the longer I think about it... here's a question.

How has any pet been transported in cabin in on a normal major airline flight in the last... 10, 15 years?

As in... where have all the pets in cabin been going?

This is either an amazingly inconsistently enforced rule or there's an X factor in here somewhere.
 
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Bob001 said:
Reading this made me wonder: If a flight attendant tells you to do something stupid, or takes offense at you for some reason, what can you do? Demand another one? Demand the pilot? In some of these high-profile incidents, it looks like all the attendant has to do is call a passenger "disruptive" and the whole administrative structure, including the cops, lines up against the passenger. What could/should this passenger have done?
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I think you are right that in that situation you really only have 2 choices - comply with whatever the flight attendant is telling you or disembark.

I find the whole concept of pets on planes as alien (UK/european air traveller) so the situation is weird in itself to me. I hope in that situation (with a pet) I would disembark, or if for some reason I absolutely had to travel and could be persuaded the overhead was safe I would at the very least have the presence of mind to check on the dog every so often.
 
Bob001 said:
Reading this made me wonder: If a flight attendant tells you to do something stupid, or takes offense at you for some reason, what can you do? Demand another one? Demand the pilot? In some of these high-profile incidents, it looks like all the attendant has to do is call a passenger "disruptive" and the whole administrative structure, including the cops, lines up against the passenger. What could/should this passenger have done?
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Both Federal Law and your agreement of terms when you buy a ticket require you to obey all instructions from flight crew.
 
Belz... said:
Yeah but sometimes you have to move the pet overseas, so what do you do then? The hold?

What a dick move.
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Maybe I am tripping but I have traveled a fair bit by air in the UK/Europe and I have never ever once seen an animal in the cabin. AFAIK if you want to move pets overseas they travel in a pressurised/heated hold. If you dont have EU papers they go into 4 month quarantine as well (inwards to the UK anyway).
 
interesting:

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/travel-assistance/travelling-with-pets

British Airways flights
Assistance dogs

If you’re travelling with a recognised assistance dog, it can travel with you free of charge in the cabin of your British Airways flight. This service cannot be booked online and we might need to limit the number of dogs we can carry in the cabin.

More about travelling with assistance dogs


Other pets and emotional support animals

All other pets, including emotional support animals, will need to travel in the hold as cargo but don’t worry, your furry friends will be just as comfortable in the carefully controlled environment.

All our cargo is handled by our sister company, IAG World Cargo. They have decades of experience transporting animals and will look after your pet as if it were their own.

More about transporting pets with IAG World Cargo


OpenSkies flights

OpenSkies is our subsidiary that operates direct flights between Paris and New York. If your cat or dog weighs less than 6kg (13.2lb) they can travel with you in Eco (economy) and Prem Plus (premium economy). If they weigh more than 6kg (13.2lb) they will need to travel in the hold as cargo.

More about travelling with pets on OpenSkies


SUN-AIR of Scandinavia flights

SUN-AIR is our franchise partner operating flights within Europe under the British Airways brand. As on British Airways operated flights, recognised assistance dogs are allowed in the cabin. Other pets up to 6kg are allowed in the cabin on SUN-AIR flights.

Other pets must be transported in a waterproof bag or cage, with maximum dimensions of 20 x 30 x 20cm (7.5 x 11.5 x 7.5in).
It is the owners’ responsibility to ensure that all documentation and animal passports are in order before departure.
SUN-AIR permits one pet on board each aircraft at one time.

Please contact the SUN-AIR ticket office on +45 75 33 16 11 no later than 72 hours before departure if you wish to bring your pet on a SUN-AIR operated flight.
Please note that pets are not permitted on SUN-AIR flights to the United Kingdom.


Comair flights

Comair is our franchise partner operating flights in southern Africa under the British Airways brand. As on British Airways operated flights, only recognised assistance dogs are allowed in the cabin. All other pets must travel in the hold as cargo.

Comair pet policy (pdf, 1.62mb, English only)
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So it seems the UK is perhaps on one end of the spectrum (no pets, only certified guide dogs by arrangement), the USA is on the other end (pets + emotional support animals usually allowed), and others are somewhere in between.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Both Federal Law and your agreement of terms when you buy a ticket require you to obey all instructions from flight crew.
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Even if they're illegal? Even if they conflict with the company's own policies? There are cases of women getting up and moving to vacant seats because "seatmates" were assaulting them, and flight attendants ordered them back to their seats. Is that right? Flight attendants have ordered passengers to hold children on their laps (a real hazard) so they could put a passenger in the seat the parent paid for. Is that right? In the case at hand, an animal died because the flight attendant gave crazy orders. My question is, if you don't like what an attendant is telling you, is there a boss who can and will intervene on your behalf?
 
I'm flying United tomorrow. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll only beat me and drag me off the plane.
 
Bob001 said:
Even if they're illegal? Even if they conflict with the company's own policies? There are cases of women getting up and moving to vacant seats because "seatmates" were assaulting them, and flight attendants ordered them back to their seats. Is that right? Flight attendants have ordered passengers to hold children on their laps (a real hazard) so they could put a passenger in the seat the parent paid for. Is that right? In the case at hand, an animal died because the flight attendant gave crazy orders. My question is, if you don't like what an attendant is telling you, is there a boss who can and will intervene on your behalf?
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Yes Bob! If a flight attendant says you have to kill your fellow passenger you have to kill them even though it's illegal. All part of the terms and conditions of your passage....

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 
Darat said:
Yes Bob! If a flight attendant says you have to kill your fellow passenger you have to kill them even though it's illegal. All part of the terms and conditions of your passage....

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
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Well, I guess you could kill the attendant and claim you misunderstood. "Kill him!" or "Kill me!" might sound the same on a noisy plane.
 
Bob001 said:
Even if they're illegal? Even if they conflict with the company's own policies? There are cases of women getting up and moving to vacant seats because "seatmates" were assaulting them, and flight attendants ordered them back to their seats. Is that right? Flight attendants have ordered passengers to hold children on their laps (a real hazard) so they could put a passenger in the seat the parent paid for. Is that right? In the case at hand, an animal died because the flight attendant gave crazy orders. My question is, if you don't like what an attendant is telling you, is there a boss who can and will intervene on your behalf?
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Okay and? What if the entire flight has been taken over by Pop People replicants?

You are legally required by the FAA to follow verbal instructions from a member of a flight crew. This isn't something I made up.

If it's wrong fine, you might be able to win that argument with a higher authority later, but you are not going to win with a member of the flight crew at that moment in time.

I never said it was right or a good thing, but is a thing.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Okay and? What if the entire flight has been taken over by Pop People replicants? You are legally required by the FAA to follow verbal instructions from a member of a flight crew. This isn't something I made up.

If it's wrong fine, you might be able to win that argument with a higher authority later, but you are not going to win with a member of the flight crew at that moment in time.

I never said it was right or a good thing, but is a thing.
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What does that even mean?

And "the flight crew" includes multiple people, including the pilot and co-pilot. If an attendant tells you to do something that violates either (or both) the law and company policy, I would expect somebody with more authority to step up on the passenger's behalf. Sadly, that seems not to happen in many of the most notorious cases, which are the ones that leave corporate executives having to make public apologies and settle expensive lawsuits.
 
Bob001 said:
What does that even mean?

And "the flight crew" includes multiple people, including the pilot and co-pilot. If an attendant tells you to do something that violates either (or both) the law and company policy, I would expect somebody with more authority to step up on the passenger's behalf. Sadly, that seems not to happen in many of the most notorious cases, which are the ones that leave corporate executives having to make public apologies and settle expensive lawsuits.
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You're missing the point.

There's no real way you can disagree with a member of a commercial flight crews instructions and really argue your way out of it, in the moment.

The reason (and we could sit here and argue until the cows come home and then argue with the cows about why the are coming home so late as to if this is good or right or whatever) is that in a metal tube packed with people that is about to be 30,000 feet in the air in a few minutes is not the time to be arguing with people and "the side of the people running the plane" is simply the side it makes more sense to default to.

You seem to under the impression I'm on the airline's side in all this. I stated up above that the very physics of how airplanes are built precludes pet carriers from being placed in seats so there was functionally no where for this animal to go and I still want an answer on where pets have been going on in-cabin flights because they sure as hell haven't been going under the seats so it's very possible, likely even, that this whole sad affair has uncovered some sort of ongoing shell game the airlines have been playing for a while now.

I'm just saying there's a reason "Having the argument when the plane's about to take off" is not something that's generally allowed.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
You're missing the point.
There's no real way you can disagree with a member of a commercial flight crews instructions and really argue your way out of it, in the moment.
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.....

The flight attendant has supervisors on the plane, including a senior flight attendant, the co-pilot and the pilot. Assuming that any random flight attendant has complete and final authority is not correct. The problem is that the bosses seem to reflexively side with the attendant, even when the attendant her/himself is violating company policy and the law in ways that will get the airline in big trouble later. The final authority on the aircraft is the pilot. It's not unreasonable to ask him to intervene.

JoeMorgue said:
You seem to under the impression I'm on the airline's side in all this. I stated up above that the very physics of how airplanes are built precludes pet carriers from being placed in seats so there was functionally no where for this animal to go and I still want an answer on where pets have been going on in-cabin flights because they sure as hell haven't been going under the seats so it's very possible, likely even, that this whole sad affair has uncovered some sort of ongoing shell game the airlines have been playing for a while now.
....
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You are simply misinformed. The TSA approves pet travel cases intended to stow small pets under seats, and this passenger paid $125 to the airline for that privilege. The larger question of "emotional support" animals on planes has been written about at length. Passengers can and do travel routinely with small pets, sometimes larger ones, in airline cabins, usually without incident.
https://www.tsa.gov/news/releases/2014/08/27/traveling-dogsand-cats-and-other-small-pets
http://traveltips.usatoday.com/airline-requirements-pet-carrier-22006.html
 
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Giordano said:
Given that many airlines treat people like animals, what did we expect them to treat animals like?

(and yes, for the literally minded, I know people are animals).
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Probably the same. My cousin is an airline pilot. She says that the flight attendants regularly treat the pilots like animals.
 
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