The Trump Presidency (Act V - The One Where Everybody Dies)

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Skeptic Ginger said:
If you call Trump a success...
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Stop. You've lost the plot. This particular thread of discussion was not about Trump himself, but specifically about Trump University.

Trump is a successful con artist and thief, that's it, end of story.
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Again, this is about Trump University specifically, but... Yes. That was the point of questioning the claim that Trump University was a "failure". It's likely that it was actually fairly successful at achieving the goal it was intended to achieve: swindling people out of their money.
 
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acbytesla said:
I could hardly believe he congratulated Putin for rigging another election. One where Putin jailed his opposition. Look at all the people Trump criticizes and yet he continues to keep his nose deep in the crack of Putin's behind.
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Once you recognize Trump's pathologic narcissism, it's all very clear.

Trump imagines himself as this great world leader. He has no idea how terribly he is carrying out the job. Nothing matters except rubbing shoulders with the two other most powerful world leaders. That's all that matters. Period. Trump feels great in their presence.

As for other world leaders like Merkel, May and Macron, if they compliment Trump and treat him well, he hobnobs with them too. That's why Trump wants a parade, he was impressed by Macron's. If not, he'll Tweet insults about them.

Anyone who is in that lower tier, not quite as rich and not quite as powerful Trump likes to be around imagining they idolize him

The Prince of Saudi Arabia is perfect to hobnob with. A twofur: rich and powerful and probably finances a lot of Trump's lifestyle.

Trump likes to rub shoulders with the superrich like the Russian oligarchs because Trump feels like a billionaire when he does.


It's so obvious. Either he wants to feel worshipped or he wants to feel he is an equal to rich and powerful people. Either way it's all about making Trump feel great about himself.
 
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dudalb said:
Problem is in the case of the CA guy is it was so STUPID.
The whole success of the company was based on keeping a low profile, flying under the radar. Now he exposed it to massive scrutiny, and it's likely it won't survive.
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Psychopaths don't even think in those terms. The health of their companies isn't even part of their agendas, except maybe for a while, until they get bored. A bored psychopath might deliberately run his company into the ground, just to watch it die.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Once you recognize Trump's pathologic narcissism, it's all very clear.

Trump imagines himself as this great world leader. He has no idea how terribly he is carrying out the job. Nothing matters except rubbing shoulders with the two other most powerful world leaders. That's all that matters. Period. Trump feels great in their presence.

As for other world leaders like Merkel, May and Macron, if they compliment Trump and treat him well, he hobnobs with them too. That's why Trump wants a parade, he was impressed by Macron's. If not, he'll Tweet insults about them.

The Prince of Saudi Arabia is perfect to hobnob with. A twofur: rich and powerful and probably finances a lot ofTrump's lifestyle.

Trump likes to rub shoulders with the superrich like the Russian oligarchs because Trump feels like a billionaire when he does.


It's so obvious.
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You're probably right but that is insane.

I'm convinced though Trump has been compromised by Putin in some way. That Putin can easily expose criminal acts of Trump's. Acts that would not only lead to impeachment but very likely prison. This is classic espionage 101. Now of course this all seems like CT nonsense, but Trump has almost a psychotic need to be the Alpha Dog and that he kowtows so easily to Putin despite there are no political upsides to it. Its not like his redneck constituency are big Russian supporters.

It screams to me they own him.
 
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acbytesla said:
You're probably right but that is insane.

I'm convinced though Trump has been compromised by Putin in some way. That Putin can easily expose criminal acts of Trump's. Acts that would not only lead to impeachment but very likely prison. This is classic espionage 101. Now of course this all seems like CT nonsense, but Trump has almost a psychotic need to be the Alpha Dog and that he kowtows so easily to Putin despite there are no political upsides to it. Its not like his redneck constituency are big Russian supporters.

It screams to me they own him.
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This.:thumbsup:
 
newyorkguy said:
The Republican Party seems much more monolithic. As Dumpster demonstrates daily, they don't seem to respect differing views, at least not publicly. They have a party line and elected officials and Party members are expected to "obey it."
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Generally, I'm of the same opinion but I also question that perception. Could it be that it is easy to see the warts from the inside than it is to do the same to a different group for which you don't have all the inside knife wielding?
 
acbytesla said:
You're probably right but that is insane.
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Yep, see the Trump has a dangerous mental illness thread. :thumbsup:

acbytesla said:
I'm convinced though Trump has been compromised by Putin in some way. That Putin can easily expose criminal acts of Trump's. Acts that would not only lead to impeachment but very likely prison. This is classic espionage 101. Now of course this all seems like CT nonsense, but Trump has almost a psychotic need to be the Alpha Dog and that he kowtows so easily to Putin despite there are no political upsides to it. Its not like his redneck constituency are big Russian supporters.

It screams to me they own him.
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Not mutually exclusive. :)
 
acbytesla said:
You're probably right but that is insane.

I'm convinced though Trump has been compromised by Putin in some way. That Putin can easily expose criminal acts of Trump's. Acts that would not only lead to impeachment but very likely prison. This is classic espionage 101. Now of course this all seems like CT nonsense, but Trump has almost a psychotic need to be the Alpha Dog and that he kowtows so easily to Putin despite there are no political upsides to it. Its not like his redneck constituency are big Russian supporters.

It screams to me they own him.
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Yep! I almost had some hope that it wasn't true when Trump acknowledged that Russia was likely behind the nerve agent attack, but then almost immediately it's like, so what? "Congratulations on your win, Vlad!"
 
From what we know so far about the Russian Troll farms and CA, it becomes clear (at least to me) that the competing factions in the Trump campaign each had their own dirty tricks department they used to win: Manafort/Gates/Padadopoulos knew they had the Russians working to elect Trump, Bannon knew he had the Mercers/CA working to elect Trump.
No doubt each side thought they could do better without the other, which explains all the in-fighting and leaking we've seen.

And it is probably correct that Trump was isolated as much as possible from this, because that is the way operators like to do it: otherwise, they become expendable.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Oh, Ralph Peters, the fascist psychopath known (especially in the region) for his unbelievably arrogant map where he fantasizes how the Empire should carve up the Middle East to make it "better" through creating a lot of little ethno states with "blood borders".

Having him as an enemy is a honour, applauding him in sheepish ignorance is an embarrassment.
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Wow, that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
 
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Counsel. Whether.

This would be nitpicking, but for the continuous boasting as to how educated and smart Trump tells us he is.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
[qimg]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4771/26063776297_dd72d3f942_z.jpg[/qimg]

Counsel. Whether.

This would be nitpicking, but for the continuous boasting as to how educated and smart Trump tells us he is.
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It was quickly corrected after CNN pointed out the misspelling(s). The latest one still says "Council".
 
Fast Eddie B said:
[qimg]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4771/26063776297_dd72d3f942_z.jpg[/qimg]

Counsel. Whether.

This would be nitpicking, but for the continuous boasting as to how educated and smart Trump tells us he is.
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Do you think dershowitz is purposely being dumb here or just naturally? The standard for an investigation is not probable cause.

ETA: and that is just for a full investigation. Some of it could be under a preliminary investigation that just needs “Information or an allegation”
 
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Fast Eddie B said:
[qimg]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4771/26063776297_dd72d3f942_z.jpg[/qimg]

Counsel. Whether.

This would be nitpicking, but for the continuous boasting as to how educated and smart Trump tells us he is.
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What's Dershowitz been smoking? I mean, I know he's a wingnut, but "no probable cause"?
 
I think there was probable cause - by the time Mueller was appointed there had been numerous reports from numerous intelligence agencies from many different countries that there had been coordination between the Trump team and the Kremlin, not to mention information from inside the Kremlin itself. Not to mention the stuff surrounding Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, et. al.

Although, of course, IANAL, but I think that counts for "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true"
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I think there was probable cause - by the time Mueller was appointed there had been numerous reports from numerous intelligence agencies from many different countries that there had been coordination between the Trump team and the Kremlin, not to mention information from inside the Kremlin itself. Not to mention the stuff surrounding Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, et. al.

Although, of course, IANAL, but I think that counts for "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true"
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Hell yes. I wonder if Dershowitz's quibble is semantic in nature, that no judge ever determined that there was probable cause. I wonder if he thinks that's how special counsels are appointed.

Or he's picked his side and will support it come hell or high water.
 
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I think there was probable cause - by the time Mueller was appointed there had been numerous reports from numerous intelligence agencies from many different countries that there had been coordination between the Trump team and the Kremlin, not to mention information from inside the Kremlin itself. Not to mention the stuff surrounding Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, et. al.

Although, of course, IANAL, but I think that counts for "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true"
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I guess the best part of this conversation is that the requirements for an FBI investigation is below probable cause.
 
uke2se said:
What's Dershowitz been smoking? I mean, I know he's a wingnut, but "no probable cause"?
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IMO, he's figured out that being on TV and saying wingnutty things in defense of Trump is how you apply for a job with the administration.
 
uke2se said:
What's Dershowitz been smoking? I mean, I know he's a wingnut, but "no probable cause"?
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I really think Dershowitz is an idiot who will say or do anything to be on TV. His analysis of the Amanda Knox case showed he didn't know the evidence at all. Yet he blathered on.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Well, there isn't probable cause.
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Do you have any idea of what probable cause is? There are mountains of probable cause starting with Trump's guilty and suspicious behavior. The evidence that Trump obstructed justice is significant. There are Manafort's, Fkynn's, even Sessions lying about their contacts with the Russians.
 
Stacko said:
IMO, he's figured out that being on TV and saying wingnutty things in defense of Trump is how you apply for a job with the administration.
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Admin? No. My guess is that he wants to be Trump's lead defense attorney and probably thinks it's going that route so he might as well nitpick with something irrelevant like "probable cause". (ETA: 'cuz, as you said, nothing warms up the orange turdblossom like loyalty and people who rush to his defense.)
 
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Because there's always a tweet:

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/1IWDw4D.jpg[/qimg]
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The White House on Monday congratulated the “Venezuelan people” for the peaceful, democratic election that gave President Hugo Chavez win his third six-year term.

According to pool reports, White House spokesman Jay Carney said the administration offered its support to Venezuelan voters, “while noting the U.S. has its differences with Chavez.”
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A more nuanced comment by TWH than Trump implies.
 
acbytesla said:
Do you have any idea of what probable cause is? There are mountains of probable cause starting with Trump's guilty and suspicious behavior. The evidence that Trump obstructed justice is significant. There are Manafort's, Fkynn's, even Sessions lying about their contacts with the Russians.
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I would describe that as an articulable factual basis.
 
Probable Cause simply means enough evidence that a crime was probably committed, and that the person or persons in question probably did it.

Threshold is 51% probability.

It’s enough justification to effect an arrest. It’s certainly enough to justify an investigation.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Probable Cause simply means enough evidence that a crime was probably committed, and that the person or persons in question probably did it.

Threshold is 51% probability.

It’s enough justification to effect an arrest. It’s certainly enough to justify an investigation.
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And I listed what Is the requirements for an investigation. It is lower than probable cause.
 
Probable Cause
DEFINITION
Probable cause is a requirement found in the Fourth Amendment that must usually be met before police make an arrest, conduct a search, or receive a warrant. Courts usually find probable cause when there is a reasonable basis for believing that a crime may have been committed (for an arrest) or when evidence of the crime is present in the place to be searched (for a search)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/probable_cause
 
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