Stormy Daniels Sues the President

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Bob001 said:
No, your claim is (or appears to be, it's hard to tell) that Mueller acted outside his authority. He passed along information to the SDNY, which pursued it on its own authority in accordance with Justice Dept. rules, and obtained search warrants after proving probable cause.

Here's the process:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...mal-bar/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6ad827bf24b0
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No, that was certainly not my claim, that was the claim that Seth Abramson made and as I pointed out about a million times was totally wrong.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
That's because your busy trying to hope everyone forgets the original premise:



It wasn't outside his appointment as you asserted.

K thx bye :thumbsup:
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Hmmm, yet they did make a referral, the decision was made by Rod J. Rosenstein and was performed by SDNY (the activities of which are TOTALLY out of mueller's jurisdiction).

Yet despite these undisputed facts you assert that it was within his jurisdiction? "Interesting" "theory."

So that is the CFR, Mueller, Rosenstein, the DA of the SDNY and TBD on one side, and you on the other.

Thumbs up, thumbs up indeed.
 
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The Big Dog said:
Short of the mark? I explained that the contract specifically incorporated the rules of the alternative dispute company that gave the arbitrator jurisdiction over the enforceability of the contract, that Stormy was challenging the contract as a whole and not the arbitration clause specifically and that even if she were to do so, that the arbitrator could have jurisdiction over that as well.

So not short of the mark at all, just comprehensive and correct.

And likely superseded by today's events
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You asserted -- big difference -- and regardless of your analysis, the judge will decide some basic issues of legality before ordering arbitration. It appears you're coming around to realizing that and trying to pretend that you were right all along.
 
WilliamSeger said:
You asserted -- big difference -- and regardless of your analysis, the judge will decide some basic issues of legality before ordering arbitration. It appears you're coming around to realizing that and trying to pretend that you were right all along.
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I was right all along, and to the extent that you are asserting that anything I said was erroneous, it is really pretty far past the time that you show it.

By the way, the Judge should under no circumstances decide whether the contract is "illegal" while there is a criminal investigation pending.

As I have suggested before, the judge should either grant the motion to compel or stay the whole shooting match and let things play out over in the SDNY
 
The Big Dog said:
Hmmm, yet they did make a referral, the decision was made by Rod J. Rosenstein and was performed by SDNY (the activities of which are TOTALLY out of mueller's jurisdiction).

Yet despite these undisputed facts you assert that it was within his jurisdiction? "Interesting" "theory."

So that is the CFR, Mueller, Rosenstein, the DA of the SDNY and TBD on one side, and you on the other.

Thumbs up, thumbs up indeed.
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Yes, I assert they were clearly not required make a referral SDNY , based on the scope Muellers appointment.

And yes, they chose to make a referral to SDNY.

And you have provided no evidence or argument that demonstrates otherwise.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
TheL8Elvis said:
Yes, I assert they were clearly not required make a referral SDNY , based on the scope Muellers appointment.

And yes, they chose to make a referral to SDNY.

And you have provided no evidence or argument that demonstrates otherwise.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Sigh, in order to get the SDNY involved at all they had to make the referral.

Although asserting that they chose to make the referral is evidence that they had the jurisdiction anyway is sheer nonsense.
 
The Big Dog said:
Sigh, in order to get the SDNY involved at all they had to make the referral.

Although asserting that they chose to make the referral is evidence that they had the jurisdiction anyway is sheer nonsense.
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That's not what I did. Nice try at more misdirection.
 
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mgidm86 said:
Well Stormy Daniel's ranking on a porn site I checked out is in the top 5. I'd never heard of her before this, but I don't suppose I would have. I'd say it will work out very well for her. Why else would she reveal anything about an affair from years ago? Money.

As for Trump, who do you think will care about any of this aside from the people who already hate him? A billionaire had an affair years ago with a porn star and possibly a lot of other women...shocker.

And don't think Clinton didn't silence his women as someone suggested above, he certainly did, either that or I missed the Broderick rape trial. If it wasn't for Bill people might be a lot more shocked by Trump. Bill set the bar nice and low.

This may have mattered a few years ago. I sincerely think Trump is being attacked so much that it's just more noise. Maybe it's just me though, that's certainly possible.

Of all the crap Trump has been accused of though, screwing a porn star years before he ran for President smells of desperation more than anything. It's pathetic and I think it's funny that so many angry liberals think this matters or will change anything.

More moral highground posturing as a setup for the upcoming impeachment?
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It seems like the whole thing is a stunt to gain publicity and 15 minutes of fame. The money being offered by tabloids and/or other sources must have been far more lucrative than the $130k that Stormy allegedly received as "hush" money.

My guess is that the whole thing will eventually just fade away and Stormy will have collected a small fortune from all the hype.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
You don't get a warrant to raid an attorney unless you're pretty darn sure there's criminal evidence to be had. Abramson quoted an ex-FBI agent saying he'd only seen it happen a handful of times, and each of those times that attorney went to jail.
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Let's hope so, otherwise it just looks like a witch hunt.

McCarthy strikes again!
 
The Big Dog said:
It certainly could be.

Simple case, I agree to sell you my car, and you use your clients' funds to pay for it. My contract with you is still enforceable, of course.
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Ah, but it was Cohen who was doing the selling (as an agent for Trump). So, the correct analogy is, if you agree to sell me your car and it turns out to not belong to you (perhaps the log book is fake or it belongs to your boss) then the contract is null and void.
 
Joecool said:
It seems like the whole thing is a stunt to gain publicity and 15 minutes of fame. The money being offered by tabloids and/or other sources must have been far more lucrative than the $130k that Stormy allegedly received as "hush" money.

My guess is that the whole thing will eventually just fade away and Stormy will have collected a small fortune from all the hype.
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I actually bet the opposite. Not that Trump having the affair is all that damaging, but the many payments he has made to keep things quiet. There are reportedly dozens of women that Trump has paid off. There is at least 5 that I know of wanting to get out of NDAs. Cohen is the key. He is reportedly being investigated for bank and wire fraud as well illegal campaign contributions. They are going to squeeze him.

.
 
Vixen said:
Ah, but it was Cohen who was doing the selling (as an agent for Trump). So, the correct analogy is, if you agree to sell me your car and it turns out to not belong to you (perhaps the log book is fake or it belongs to your boss) then the contract is null and void.
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:confused:

Cohen allegedly paid the money to buy Stormy's silence and pictures and other tangible stuff
 
The Big Dog said:
:confused:

Cohen allegedly paid the money to buy Stormy's silence and pictures and other tangible stuff
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No, he was flogging a settlement in return for Stormy Daniel's silence. She was the buyer, who is now claiming she was sold a pup, and that the contract is void.
 
Vixen said:
No, he was flogging a settlement in return for Stormy Daniel's silence. She was the buyer, who is now claiming she was sold a pup, and that the contract is void.
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That is a rather... unique... take on paying someone 130,000 dollars.
 
acbytesla said:
I actually bet the opposite. Not that Trump having the affair is all that damaging, but the many payments he has made to keep things quiet. There are reportedly dozens of women that Trump has paid off. There is at least 5 that I know of wanting to get out of NDAs. Cohen is the key. He is reportedly being investigated for bank and wire fraud as well illegal campaign contributions. They are going to squeeze him..
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I wonder if they'll also investigate some of the other potential crimes Cohen may have been involved in.

From: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article180701541.html
Cohen himself was a sometime New York real estate wheeler dealer whose companies appear to have netted as much as $20 million in profit by flipping properties to mysterious buyers. The facts surrounding one of Cohen’s ventures in particular raised red flags for several experts interviewed by McClatchy... "An all cash purchase by an LLC of an overvalued property in Manhattan is usually worth a closer look by federal investigators,” said Jaimie Nawaday, a former federal prosecutor and money laundering specialist".

Cohen has explained that the buyers were making the purchase for tax purposes (which is legitimate) but he hasn't really given any proof of that that I'm aware of.
 
Joecool said:
It seems like the whole thing is a stunt to gain publicity and 15 minutes of fame. The money being offered by tabloids and/or other sources must have been far more lucrative than the $130k that Stormy allegedly received as "hush" money.

My guess is that the whole thing will eventually just fade away and Stormy will have collected a small fortune from all the hype.
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While the start of the Trump/Cohen issues may have started with Stormy and lucrative offers she was receiving, the issue has taken on a life of its own, far outside of whatever considerations Stormy had. Even if Stormy changed her mind, and decided to withdraw whatever legal challenges she had to the contract and retire out of the public eye, the investigations into violations of money laundering and campaign finance laws will continue. I doubt the investigators and lawyers digging into Cohen's activities will care how much Stormy Daniels can earn from media appearances.

I have to admit, I'm kind of surprised things happened as quickly as they did. Almost out of left field. Not that I don't welcome the changes.

In my opinion, Cohen is toast. At the very least he will probably be disbarred, at worst he will go to prison for at least a few months. It may not necessarily be enough to bring down Trump (although I suspect he or the republicans may have some fines to pay). And a Trusted Trump ally goes away, which Trump will not be happy about.
 
Segnosaur said:
I wonder if they'll also investigate some of the other potential crimes Cohen may have been involved in.

From: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article180701541.html
Cohen himself was a sometime New York real estate wheeler dealer whose companies appear to have netted as much as $20 million in profit by flipping properties to mysterious buyers. The facts surrounding one of Cohen’s ventures in particular raised red flags for several experts interviewed by McClatchy... "An all cash purchase by an LLC of an overvalued property in Manhattan is usually worth a closer look by federal investigators,” said Jaimie Nawaday, a former federal prosecutor and money laundering specialist".

Cohen has explained that the buyers were making the purchase for tax purposes (which is legitimate) but he hasn't really given any proof of that that I'm aware of.
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There some very bizarre banking irregularities involving Cohen and a Chicago bank I've read about.
 
Segnosaur said:
While the start of the Trump/Cohen issues may have started with Stormy and lucrative offers she was receiving, the issue has taken on a life of its own, far outside of whatever considerations Stormy had. Even if Stormy changed her mind, and decided to withdraw whatever legal challenges she had to the contract and retire out of the public eye, the investigations into violations of money laundering and campaign finance laws will continue. I doubt the investigators and lawyers digging into Cohen's activities will care how much Stormy Daniels can earn from media appearances.

I have to admit, I'm kind of surprised things happened as quickly as they did. Almost out of left field. Not that I don't welcome the changes.

In my opinion, Cohen is toast. At the very least he will probably be disbarred, at worst he will go to prison for at least a few months. It may not necessarily be enough to bring down Trump (although I suspect he or the republicans may have some fines to pay). And a Trusted Trump ally goes away, which Trump will not be happy about.
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I have to wonder if any of these potential crimes might fall under a State crime, so Trump can't just pardon Cohen.
 
I must admit that the whole raid on Cohen's home makes me a bit nervous. I don't like the idea of cops breaking into people's homes looking for evidence of "illegal campaign contributions". It seems like it might be political, rather than actually prosecuting the law.


Still, we'll have to wait and see what comes out. As I noted earlier, if it turns out that Donald Trump did not use his own money to pay of Stormy Daniels et. al. I would have no problem throwing the book at him, or his accomplices. If the best they can come up with is an undeclared campaign contribution, I'm not sure anyone should go to jail for that.
 
Meadmaker said:
I must admit that the whole raid on Cohen's home makes me a bit nervous. I don't like the idea of cops breaking into people's homes looking for evidence of "illegal campaign contributions". It seems like it might be political, rather than actually prosecuting the law.
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Do you have an alternative?
 
Meadmaker said:
I must admit that the whole raid on Cohen's home makes me a bit nervous. I don't like the idea of cops breaking into people's homes looking for evidence of "illegal campaign contributions". It seems like it might be political, rather than actually prosecuting the law.


Still, we'll have to wait and see what comes out. As I noted earlier, if it turns out that Donald Trump did not use his own money to pay of Stormy Daniels et. al. I would have no problem throwing the book at him, or his accomplices. If the best they can come up with is an undeclared campaign contribution, I'm not sure anyone should go to jail for that.
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Oh puhleese, are you worried those justices and all those prosecutors involved had no real probable cause for said search warrants? Cohen and Trump have practically broadcast their stupidity in the public sphere.

The LLC and the money involved look like bank fraud on the surface. (See Daniel's attorney who spelled out why.) And Trump said to the press he didn't know anything about the payoff. Campaign financing shenanigans anyone?
 
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Meadmaker said:
I must admit that the whole raid on Cohen's home makes me a bit nervous. I don't like the idea of cops breaking into people's homes looking for evidence of "illegal campaign contributions". It seems like it might be political, rather than actually prosecuting the law.


Still, we'll have to wait and see what comes out. As I noted earlier, if it turns out that Donald Trump did not use his own money to pay of Stormy Daniels et. al. I would have no problem throwing the book at him, or his accomplices. If the best they can come up with is an undeclared campaign contribution, I'm not sure anyone should go to jail for that.
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You're assuming that is what the raid was about that. But We DONT KNOW what it is about. This HAD to be signed off by quite a few people, including a judge and the assistant AG. The more I read about this, the more I'm convinced that this is only peripherally related to Stormy Daniels and is more about serious banking irregularities that are flashing warning signs of illegality.
 
Maybe it's like a Watergate break-in. They are looking for ways to prevent a Trump reelection. When it's all announced and done in full view nobody will think that it's actually a burglary.
 
William Parcher said:
Maybe it's like a Watergate break-in. They are looking for ways to prevent a Trump reelection. When it's all announced and done in full view nobody will think that it's actually a burglary.
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Huh? Who is they? And how is this like the Watergate break-in?
 
Craig4 said:
Wow, so much winning. The fact that a federal judge authorized a no-knock search warrant on the counsel to the president is a sure sign that said president is about to win all over himself. I hope he wins in the part of the East Wing that's tiled so the janitors will have an easier time cleaning up all that winning. I'd hate to think the winning would stain the carpets.
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They can roll his fat carcass into the carpets and drop it out of Air Force One as far as I am concerned. Preferably from a height high enough to let him get cold on the way down.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Oh puhleese, are you worried those justices and all those prosecutors involved had no real probable cause for said search warrants? Cohen and Trump have practically broadcast their stupidity in the public sphere.

The LLC and the money involved look like bank fraud on the surface. (See Daniel's attorney who spelled out why.) And Trump said to the press he didn't know anything about the payoff. Campaign financing shenanigans anyone?
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Yeah, I'm worried about that.

We'll see what happens when indictments are made and reports are finalized, or whatever happens in the end.

If it ends up being, "He took campaign contributions and used it to pay hush money to a porn star." I'm ok with impeaching or jailing or whatever. That would be a sort of theft, or at least fraud. If, on the other hand, it turns out to be a "Section 17 of this law requires that this money be reported on this form, and since it happened near election time this sort of money should really be considered that sort of money, which means it had to be disclosed, and then when we asked him about it, he hemmed and hawed instead of giving a straightforward response, so that's Obstruction of Justice....." Well, then I might have a problem with prosecuting Cohen and/or impeaching Trump. As much as I would like to see Trump out of office, I would be very nervous about any charges that were no more substantial than the last time a president was impeached. That was a travesty, and I don't want another travesty even if it's from "our side".


But, it may very well be that there was evidence of some pretty serious hanky-panky going on and the warrants, raid, etc. were perfectly justified. We'll have to wait and see.
 
Meadmaker said:
Yeah, I'm worried about that.

We'll see what happens when indictments are made and reports are finalized, or whatever happens in the end.

If it ends up being, "He took campaign contributions and used it to pay hush money to a porn star." I'm ok with impeaching or jailing or whatever. That would be a sort of theft, or at least fraud. If, on the other hand, it turns out to be a "Section 17 of this law requires that this money be reported on this form, and since it happened near election time this sort of money should really be considered that sort of money, which means it had to be disclosed, and then when we asked him about it, he hemmed and hawed instead of giving a straightforward response, so that's Obstruction of Justice....." Well, then I might have a problem with prosecuting Cohen and/or impeaching Trump. As much as I would like to see Trump out of office, I would be very nervous about any charges that were no more substantial than the last time a president was impeached. That was a travesty, and I don't want another travesty even if it's from "our side".


But, it may very well be that there was evidence of some pretty serious hanky-panky going on and the warrants, raid, etc. were perfectly justified. We'll have to wait and see.
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Yeah, this pretty much sums it up for me as well. I understand the desire to bat around ideas in a discussion like this and to look for every possible news leak, but in the end, none of us here (or the various pundits holding forth on "news" channels, twitters, blogs, etc) can predict what exactly will come of all this. Kind of like before the election or the Clinton email affair -everyone was analyzing the crap out of it, but no one was really able to predict what actually transpired. "Wait and see . . . " that's the ticket.
 
xjx388 said:
Yeah, this pretty much sums it up for me as well. I understand the desire to bat around ideas in a discussion like this and to look for every possible news leak, but in the end, none of us here (or the various pundits holding forth on "news" channels, twitters, blogs, etc) can predict what exactly will come of all this. Kind of like before the election or the Clinton email affair -everyone was analyzing the crap out of it, but no one was really able to predict what actually transpired. "Wait and see . . . " that's the ticket.
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I wouldn't begin to speculate on Trump But no way in hell are they going to raid the President's personal attorney without some serious reasons. My guess is at a minimum that Cohen is screwed.
 
It could be that the key to Trump's downfall is Stormy Daniels, and Trump's own stupidity. If Trump and Cohen stayed silent on the Daniels case, this raid may not have happened at all.
 
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Meadmaker said:
Yeah, I'm worried about that.

We'll see what happens when indictments are made and reports are finalized, or whatever happens in the end.

If it ends up being, "He took campaign contributions and used it to pay hush money to a porn star." I'm ok with impeaching or jailing or whatever. That would be a sort of theft, or at least fraud. If, on the other hand, it turns out to be a "Section 17 of this law requires that this money be reported on this form, and since it happened near election time this sort of money should really be considered that sort of money, which means it had to be disclosed, and then when we asked him about it, he hemmed and hawed instead of giving a straightforward response, so that's Obstruction of Justice....." Well, then I might have a problem with prosecuting Cohen and/or impeaching Trump. As much as I would like to see Trump out of office, I would be very nervous about any charges that were no more substantial than the last time a president was impeached. That was a travesty, and I don't want another travesty even if it's from "our side".


But, it may very well be that there was evidence of some pretty serious hanky-panky going on and the warrants, raid, etc. were perfectly justified. We'll have to wait and see.
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Daniels' lawyer outlined what the suspected crimes were.

WA Po: Trump attorney Cohen is being investigated for possible bank fraud, campaign finance violations
One person familiar with the probe said investigators have been gathering material on Cohen for weeks, including his bank records.

Two of the potential crimes being investigated — bank fraud and wire fraud — suggest prosecutors have some reason to think Cohen may have misled bankers about why he was using particular funds or may have improperly used banks in the transfer of funds....

Cohen has said he used a home-equity line of credit to finance the payment to Daniels and said that neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign reimbursed him for the payment.

Banks don’t usually require much explanation from customers about how they use such credit lines. However, Cohen may have been asked to provide explanation for the large-dollar transfers he made when he moved the money to a shell company and then to a lawyer for Daniels.
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Federal regulations of banks became stricter after 9/11. Daniels' lawyer suggested Cohen was unlikely to have told the bank the loan was to pay off a porn star. ...

At some point, Cohen’s New York bank, First Republic, flagged the transaction to the Treasury Department as a suspicious payment, according to the Wall Street Journal....
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Segnosaur said:
While the start of the Trump/Cohen issues may have started with Stormy and lucrative offers she was receiving, the issue has taken on a life of its own, far outside of whatever considerations Stormy had. Even if Stormy changed her mind, and decided to withdraw whatever legal challenges she had to the contract and retire out of the public eye, the investigations into violations of money laundering and campaign finance laws will continue. I doubt the investigators and lawyers digging into Cohen's activities will care how much Stormy Daniels can earn from media appearances.

I have to admit, I'm kind of surprised things happened as quickly as they did. Almost out of left field. Not that I don't welcome the changes.

In my opinion, Cohen is toast. At the very least he will probably be disbarred, at worst he will go to prison for at least a few months. It may not necessarily be enough to bring down Trump (although I suspect he or the republicans may have some fines to pay). And a Trusted Trump ally goes away, which Trump will not be happy about.
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I don't know, depends on how involved he is in say laundering money for russian oligarchs. He is unlikely to serve serious time for the crimes he committed in this case but it opened the door to raiding his offices. That could turn up many other crimes which carry more serious time.
 
Meadmaker said:
I must admit that the whole raid on Cohen's home makes me a bit nervous. I don't like the idea of cops breaking into people's homes looking for evidence of "illegal campaign contributions". It seems like it might be political, rather than actually prosecuting the law.
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Why are banking and campaign finance laws the kind that should never be investigated? It is likely he lied on his loan application as he didn't disclose it was for an illegal payoff. There is plenty of evidence that laws were broken what do you need to support such raids?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Daniels' lawyer outlined what the suspected crimes were.

WA Po: Trump attorney Cohen is being investigated for possible bank fraud, campaign finance violations
Federal regulations of banks became stricter after 9/11. Daniels' lawyer suggested Cohen was unlikely to have told the bank the loan was to pay off a porn star. ...
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That's probably more like it. $130K is a trivial sum of money when all is said and done, even if it did come out of the election coffers.
 
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