Too many John McCain threads but this doesn't fit in any of them.

Skeptic Ginger

Nasty Woman
Skeptic Ginger
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Feb 14, 2005
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So I'm starting a new one.

I'm not confined to not speak ill of the dead. There's a whole lot of McCain's views and acts as a legislator that I have ill to speak of.

But this is wrong, so wrong. This is the lowest Cadet Bone Spurs (five times draft dodger) has fallen.

A staff member of Trump's said McCain gave up information to the enemy in Vietnam.

Have we sunk that low, seriously, that fake news is believed that McCain caved in to torture when he was a POW when he didn't.

How are people, no matter how many or few, that immersed in their alt-reality that they believe a falsehood like this one?

It's not about an apology or firing the person. It's about anyone believing McCain was some sort of pawn for the enemy.
 
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At least with McCain the left isn’t still spitting on our soldiers and POWs. The hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds.
 
For a normal administration, this would be repulsive.

For Dolt 45, this is actually one of the less disgusting things he's done - compared to denying people access to health care, forcibly separating children from parents, endorsing terrorists, trying to start a trade war, tearing up a historic arms agreement in a hissy fit, the open white supremacism, trying to ban trans people from society, and so forth.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Lots and lots of people protested the war without spitting on soldiers (even figuratively) including plenty of veterans.
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I have been a war protester since the 70s and I've never blamed or spit on any soldier who fought. US soldiers are not to blame at all, ever. My brother went to Vietnam as a Marine. My family is lucky, he came home alive and well.

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BReach of Rule 12/0 removed.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
I have been a war protester since the 70s and I've never blamed or spit on any soldier who fought. US soldiers are not to blame at all, ever. My brother went to Vietnam as a Marine. My family is lucky, he came home alive and well.

Edited by Darat: 
Content removed as part of moderation action in regards to a another member.
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Yeah, that sure is easy to say now. But we all know the history of our military and the left.
 
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Mumbles said:
It's not particularly new, as far as I can tell. At least, not among the scum that currently run the GOP.
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I have to wonder when or if Lindsey Graham is going to stop his Trump apologetics. Graham, perhaps McCain's biggest fan, has set this garbage aside in order find common ground with Trump on defense. A mistake, IMO. The military would do as well or better under Pence.
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Content removed as part of moderation action in regards to a another member.
 
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Several posts have been moderated. The topic of this thread is not each other's military service or lack of it. Keep to the topic of thread.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat
 
logger said:
Yeah, that sure is easy to say now. But we all know the history of our military and the left.
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No we don't. So Why don't you give us a complete and accurate history, and round it off with references as to why this is relevant to this particular topic. Be thorough. Otherwise it looks like you are just ****-stirring again.
 
logger said:
Yeah, that sure is easy to say now. But we all know the history of our military and the left.
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I wonder if we do. The 'they spat on soldiers' story is widely told, but oddly enough there seems to be a lack of photographs or film footage of it happening. Contemporary news didn't think it worth reporting? That seems more of a stretch to belief than the other conclusion: that the story is urban myth, promulgated by some for the shock value, by others to make some kind of political points.

Feel free to prove me wrong by posting evidence it actually happened.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I wonder if we do. The 'they spat on soldiers' story is widely told, but oddly enough there seems to be a lack of photographs or film footage of it happening. Contemporary news didn't think it worth reporting? That seems more of a stretch to belief than the other conclusion: that the story is urban myth, promulgated by some for the shock value, by others to make some kind of political points.

Feel free to prove me wrong by posting evidence it actually happened.
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When discussing the lefts contempt for our military, most don’t need proof. It’s something people just experience. But it is satisfying to see John McCain as the new hero of the left. But he would still be considered a war monger by the left, correct?
 
logger said:
When discussing the lefts contempt for our military, most don’t need proof. It’s something people just experience. But it is satisfying to see John McCain as the new hero of the left. But he would still be considered a war monger by the left, correct?
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No, this is the ISF. We need proof. We don't choose to believe lies because we like them.
 
TragicMonkey said:
No, this is the ISF. We need proof. We don't choose to believe lies because we like them.
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You can say this, but can you explain why the democrats decided to repeatedly insult the parents of soldier who died in combat?

Wait, no, that was Dolt 45.

Well...um, remember when Obama dismissed the death of a green beret on a phone call to said soldier's widow - and a congresswoman overheard?

Whoops, Dolt 45 again, my mistake.

Well, at least he's some nobody, right? ...Wait, nope, he's the current leader of the conservative political party.

Well, at least they've decided to take personal responsibility for openly choosing this bigoted idiot as their party leader, right?

(I also recall Obama announcing that Bin Laden had been killed - he noted his role in deciding to go ahead with the operation, and then spent days thanking the SEALs and the intelligence community for being the real heroes - at which point republicans cried that he was taking all of the credit for himself. So...which party has actually shown respect for soldiers again?)
 
logger said:
When discussing the lefts contempt for our military, most don’t need proof.
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I don't know any liberals that have contempt for the military.

Some (most? all?) of us do have contempt for the military-industrial complex and the Neocons who are, for the most part, war profiteers responsible for the deaths of millions. Very few of the Neocons or their family members have ever put their own lives on the line for the wars they send other people to fight.


logger said:
... But it is satisfying to see John McCain as the new hero of the left. But he would still be considered a war monger by the left, correct?
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As for McCain, he's not a new hero. He never stopped being a hero, that status isn't subject to partisan whims.

Some things McCain has done as a Senator are contemptible. He supported the Iraq war. So did a lot of Democratic legislators. I would have thought that McCain, having fought and suffered in the Vietnam war, would have understood that the war Bush/Cheney et al were pushing was based on lying once again to the citizens of this country. The lies were only thinly veiled, easy to detect and exposed by many people speaking up. But McCain turned a blind eye and sent more young people marching into war.

None of that makes McCain's service in the military any less heroic.

None of that makes the Progressive thinkers in this country hypocritical. Some of us are capable of seeing people as more than us and them.

Trump supporters not only don't seem capable of seeing whole people, but they are the worst kind of fair weather friends. When der fuhrer Trump declared McCain 'not a hero' because he was captured, millions of little spineless right wingers raised their arms in salute. Those are the people who believe not just without proof, but against proof.

It's sad to see so many GOP legislators sucking up to Trump and refusing to publicly condemn the words spoken in WH meetings. The excuse being given on Fox news this morning (Cavuto) is that it was a "private meeting" and words spoken in a private meeting don't matter.

Wrong, it was a work meeting. Things you say at work are not private. I can't imagine any workplace where you can say such derogatory things about another person at a staff meeting. And apparently someone at that meeting felt the same way which is why it was leaked to the press.
 
Mumbles said:
You can say this, but can you explain why the democrats decided to repeatedly insult the parents of soldier who died in combat?

Wait, no, that was Dolt 45.

Well...um, remember when Obama dismissed the death of a green beret on a phone call to said soldier's widow - and a congresswoman overheard?

Whoops, Dolt 45 again, my mistake.

Well, at least he's some nobody, right? ...Wait, nope, he's the current leader of the conservative political party.

Well, at least they've decided to take personal responsibility for openly choosing this bigoted idiot as their party leader, right?

(I also recall Obama announcing that Bin Laden had been killed - he noted his role in deciding to go ahead with the operation, and then spent days thanking the SEALs and the intelligence community for being the real heroes - at which point republicans cried that he was taking all of the credit for himself. So...which party has actually shown respect for soldiers again?)
Click to expand...

We have so much recent evidence for how reluctant Republicans are to take credit for the things that they do.
 
TragicMonkey said:
No, this is the ISF. We need proof. We don't choose to believe lies because we like them.
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All you have to do is look at the news.

If you must have proof.
Remember when Bill Clinton was caught saying in a letter he wrote how he loathed the military.

First page of a google search, it’s stunning but brings a lot of memories of the contempt for our military the left has.

And you amazingly try to deny it!!!!

https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2007/02/08/liberals-vs-the-troops-n1050817
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I don't know any liberals that have contempt for the military.

Some (most? all?) of us do have contempt for the military-industrial complex and the Neocons who are, for the most part, war profiteers responsible for the deaths of millions. Very few of the Neocons or their family members have ever put their own lives on the line for the wars they send other people to fight.


As for McCain, he's not a new hero. He never stopped being a hero, that status isn't subject to partisan whims.

Some things McCain has done as a Senator are contemptible. He supported the Iraq war. So did a lot of Democratic legislators. I would have thought that McCain, having fought and suffered in the Vietnam war, would have understood that the war Bush/Cheney et al were pushing was based on lying once again to the citizens of this country. The lies were only thinly veiled, easy to detect and exposed by many people speaking up. But McCain turned a blind eye and sent more young people marching into war.

None of that makes McCain's service in the military any less heroic.

None of that makes the Progressive thinkers in this country hypocritical. Some of us are capable of seeing people as more than us and them.

Trump supporters not only don't seem capable of seeing whole people, but they are the worst kind of fair weather friends. When der fuhrer Trump declared McCain 'not a hero' because he was captured, millions of little spineless right wingers raised their arms in salute. Those are the people who believe not just without proof, but against proof.

It's sad to see so many GOP legislators sucking up to Trump and refusing to publicly condemn the words spoken in WH meetings. The excuse being given on Fox news this morning (Cavuto) is that it was a "private meeting" and words spoken in a private meeting don't matter.

Wrong, it was a work meeting. Things you say at work are not private. I can't imagine any workplace where you can say such derogatory things about another person at a staff meeting. And apparently someone at that meeting felt the same way which is why it was leaked to the press.
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So easily you have forgotten, how convenient!
This should help you remember.

https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2007/02/08/liberals-vs-the-troops-n1050817
 
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logger said:
So easily you have forgotten, hoe convenient!
This should help you remember.

https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2007/02/08/liberals-vs-the-troops-n1050817
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An op ed? :rolleyes:

As for the cited quotes, "troops" and "soldiers" are used in the general sense when the complaints are about specific individuals. For example the mercenaries who worked for BlackWater are also war profiteers. And the soldiers that mistreat and tortured people, they don't represent all soldiers.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
An op ed? :rolleyes:

As for the cited quotes, "troops" and "soldiers" are used in the general sense when the complaints are about specific individuals. For example the mercenaries who worked for BlackWater are also war profiteers. And the soldiers that mistreat and tortured people, they don't represent all soldiers.
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An op ed with quotes, you simply cannot deny this. These quotes are well known to people who’ve paid attention. My how we try to forget.

The lefts contempt for our military is as common as their wanting to tax and spend. The only reason you start a thread in support of a known war monger like McCain is because of his contempt for our president.

Then you go and prove my point again by besmirching ALL Blackwater employees.
 
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logger said:
All you have to do is look at the news.

If you must have proof.
Remember when Bill Clinton was caught saying in a letter he wrote how he loathed the military.

First page of a google search, it’s stunning but brings a lot of memories of the contempt for our military the left has.

And you amazingly try to deny it!!!!

https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2007/02/08/liberals-vs-the-troops-n1050817
Click to expand...

For those who are interested, the letter logger is talking about can be found here. It does contain the following phrase:

I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give.
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Just that sentence itself should make it clear that logger is engaging in some equivocation here, and that by "the military" Clinton is talking about the military-industrial complex, rather than the people who serve in the military. Reading the entire letter should confirm that, as he speaks of the respect he has for the colonel to whom he is writing, and talks extensively about the misuse of the military for political purposes.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
For those who are interested, the letter logger is talking about can be found here. It does contain the following phrase:



Just that sentence itself should make it clear that logger is engaging in some equivocation here, and that by "the military" Clinton is talking about the military-industrial complex, rather than the people who serve in the military. Reading the entire letter should confirm that, as he speaks of the respect he has for the colonel to whom he is writing, and talks extensively about the misuse of the military for political purposes.
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It's also equating one person to "the left", which is goofy AF. I've personally known about 20 people in my life who are or were in the military and about half are Dems.
 
This is interesting.

We have a claim that 'leftists' (whatever that is) and libs, and whatever, all hate the military, based on unverifiable claims if 'spitting', and the op-ed of a right winger.

On the other side, we have verifiable video of right-wingers marching down a street, supporting Trump, carrying Tiki Torches, and chanting 'Blood and soil' and 'Jews will not replace us'.

Using the logic in the first claim, we now know that all right wingers are anti-Semite , racist white supremacists, based on the evidence provided in easily found videos.

We also know that all ring wingers hate the military, due to the vile attacks placed against John McCain.. by the right.
 
Shalamar said:
This is interesting.

We have a claim that 'leftists' (whatever that is) and libs, and whatever, all hate the military, based on unverifiable claims if 'spitting', and the op-ed of a right winger.

On the other side, we have verifiable video of right-wingers marching down a street, supporting Trump, carrying Tiki Torches, and chanting 'Blood and soil' and 'Jews will not replace us'.

Using the logic in the first claim, we now know that all right wingers are anti-Semite , racist white supremacists, based on the evidence provided in easily found videos.

We also know that all ring wingers hate the military, due to the vile attacks placed against John McCain.. by the right.
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Also, I'm a libertarian and on record as scorning the military.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
For those who are interested, the letter logger is talking about can be found here. It does contain the following phrase:



Just that sentence itself should make it clear that logger is engaging in some equivocation here, and that by "the military" Clinton is talking about the military-industrial complex, rather than the people who serve in the military. Reading the entire letter should confirm that, as he speaks of the respect he has for the colonel to whom he is writing, and talks extensively about the misuse of the military for political purposes.
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That’s very interesting, separating out military leadership with enlisted. Thanks for proving my point.
 
logger said:
That’s very interesting, separating out military leadership with enlisted. Thanks for proving my point.
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Your point is that "the left" spit on soldiers and POWs because as a young man Clinton wrote about how politicians can misuse the military for unjust and illegal purposes, and in which he calls soldiers "good men"? That's a very odd point to make. Are you feeling okay?
 
I must say I do find it funny to see people who claim to support the military slurring a war hero in order to stand up for a draft dodger. If only McCain had claimed that if he'd been present at a school shooting he'd have run unarmed into the gunfire and saved everybody, then he'd have their respect.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Your point is that "the left" spit on soldiers and POWs because as a young man Clinton wrote about how politicians can misuse the military for unjust and illegal purposes, and in which he calls soldiers "good men"? That's a very odd point to make. Are you feeling okay?
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The left says they support the enlisted but they don’t support the war they’re fighting, nor do they support the leadership of the military. It’s quite clear they’re support for the enlisted is also dubious and can change at a moments notice. Proven by Clinton’s letter and the many many quotes that are available. The opinion piece I provided really says it all.

You as usual work your way through a post describing it how you see fit. I’m only pointing out the BS of saying Clinton supports the enlisted but not the military industrial complex.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I must say I do find it funny to see people who claim to support the military slurring a war hero in order to stand up for a draft dodger. If only McCain had claimed that if he'd been present at a school shooting he'd have run unarmed into the gunfire and saved everybody, then he'd have their respect.
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A bit of critical thinking would show you that they aren’t slurring his war record, well some anyway. Most are slurring his obvious disgusting rino status.
 
logger said:
An op ed with quotes, you simply cannot deny this. These quotes are well known to people who’ve paid attention. My how we try to forget.

The lefts contempt for our military is as common as their wanting to tax and spend. The only reason you start a thread in support of a known war monger like McCain is because of his contempt for our president.

Then you go and prove my point again by besmirching ALL Blackwater employees.
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Once again you have no idea what you are writing about.

You want to know about the "left" and the military, start with Evens Carlson

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evans_Carlson

Carlson often had leftwing political views, prompting General David M. Shoup to say of him, "He may be red, but he's not yellow."[2]
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logger said:
A bit of critical thinking would show you that they aren’t slurring his war record, well some anyway. Most are slurring his obvious disgusting rino status.
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The guys against torture, something we didn't even stoop to in WW2, oh but Islamic radical terrorism is soooo much scarier than Nazis. The right has their ultimate boogyman don't they? What else makes McCain a RINO? Campaign finance reform is all I can come up with.
 
logger said:
The left says they support the enlisted but they don’t support the war they’re fighting, nor do they support the leadership of the military. It’s quite clear they’re support for the enlisted is also dubious and can change at a moments notice. Proven by Clinton’s letter and the many many quotes that are available. The opinion piece I provided really says it all.
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Sorry, how does the Clinton letter prove your point about the left spitting on soldiers and POWs?

I’m only pointing out the BS of saying Clinton supports the enlisted but not the military industrial complex.
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Ah, then you didn't actually read the letter you referred to. I don't know why I would have expected you to have.
 
logger said:
A bit of critical thinking would show you that they aren’t slurring his war record, well some anyway. Most are slurring his obvious disgusting rino status.
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It was Trump who said he wasn't a war hero because he got captured.
 
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