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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Allais Effect , Dark Flow , relativity , Theory of Relativity

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Old 15th May 2018, 08:53 AM   #2441
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Sure but in his case 'reversing the polarity' just doesn't work.
No when moving opposite the true speed is just reduced, as I said iff you move 1000 km/s left and at the same time 1000 km/s right, there are no true speed, and there are no "polarity"
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Old 15th May 2018, 08:54 AM   #2442
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Again, it doesn't work, your RR is always negative even when your "true motion" is negative. .
True motion cannot be "negative" either
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Old 15th May 2018, 08:58 AM   #2443
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Well, I am a Dane like Bjarne, and a lot of his "imparsible" stuff can be parsed if you know Danish.

Besides, his ideas are rooted in the fact that he does not understand relativity, and his belief that because of that it must be wrong. Many people who do not understand the theory of relativity, intuitively think like Bjarne that movement is relative to a universal grid, or as Bjarne puts it, to space itself.

Space is in Bjarne's world an immovable grid that is sticky, and hence gets tensioned when objects move.

It is a bit sad that precisely the parts of relativity that Bjarne doesn't understand, are the parts that he thinks are the weakest points of the theory.
No its the strongest point, such point, even abstract is necessary, otherwise there are no matter / space connection, - and this is excavate the case with the prevailing theory of reality, - there is a HUGE missing links / gap, that cannot be filled even with the wildest imagination.
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:00 AM   #2444
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Unfortunately the lack of understanding or just deliberate ignorance is even more basic than just that. Going back to even basic math, geometry and motion. He evidently doesn't have or doesn't want to have (as that would be detrimental to the asserted intended ignorance) the basic foundation to understand even just his own assertions.
As evidenced by this post:

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
No its the strongest point, such point, even abstract is necessary, otherwise there are no matter / space connection, - and this is excavate the case with the prevailing theory of reality, - there is a HUGE missing links, that cannot be filled even with the wildest imagination.
He appears to apply the same "instincts are good enough" attitude to writing in English.
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:07 AM   #2445
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
True motion cannot be "negative" either
Right. When the equation claims true motiontm is negative, it just means you fell into a curve of space-time.

-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
-I'm falling so fast I'm recursing!!!!
-Oh no, not again!


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Old 15th May 2018, 10:05 AM   #2446
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
No when moving opposite the true speed is just reduced, as I said iff you move 1000 km/s left and at the same time 1000 km/s right, there are no true speed, and there are no "polarity"
Simply reducing ones speed in a given direction is not "moving opposite", meaning moving in the opposing direction. Again moving "1000 km/s left and at the same time 1000 km/s right" in the same reference frame is just self-contradictory. Is it your claim that self-contradiction is a requirement of your notions?
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Old 15th May 2018, 10:15 AM   #2447
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Therein lies the crux of the matter. "Reversing the polarity" and "emitting negatively charted anti-tachyons" are about as far as Bjarne has gotten with his own ideas. By asking him to explain the details you are quite literally asking him to consider these ideas for the first time and address them instead of dismissing them. Remember, this is the guy who, when asked to predict the orbit of Mercury using his theories, bleated out "Lorenz" and said any decent programmer could do it from what he'd already written. He was openly dismissive of the idea of even NEEDING to think through his ideas beyond the insults he normally posts.

You are asking questions he appears to consider beneath him.
Yeah, fundamentally it looks like someone just took the two dimensional analogy like this...

https://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...g&action=click


or the bowling ball on an elastic sheet example...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTY1Kje0yLg


https://xkcd.com/1158/

of a curved 3+1 dimensional space time as being directly physically representative and not just analogous.
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Old 15th May 2018, 10:36 AM   #2448
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
True motion cannot be "negative" either
Ah, so your claim is now that your "True motion" must only have components in the + directions (no negative component of motion)? That would limit you (in Cartesian coordinates) to (+X,+Y,+Z) motion and preclude (-X,+Y,+Z), (+X,-Y,+Z),(+X,+Y,-Z), (+X,-Y,-Z), (-X,+Y,-Z), (-X,-Y,+Z) and (-X,-Y,-Z) motion. That's just one out of nine possible motion combinations. Dang your notions are limited when not just flat out self contradictory.
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Old 15th May 2018, 11:13 AM   #2449
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Ah, so your claim is now that your "True motion" must only have components in the + directions (no negative component of motion)? That would limit you (in Cartesian coordinates) to (+X,+Y,+Z) motion and preclude (-X,+Y,+Z), (+X,-Y,+Z),(+X,+Y,-Z), (+X,-Y,-Z), (-X,+Y,-Z), (-X,-Y,+Z) and (-X,-Y,-Z) motion. That's just one out of nine possible motion combinations. Dang your notions are limited when not just flat out self contradictory.
He's boldly going forward because he can't find reverse.

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Old 15th May 2018, 11:16 AM   #2450
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Yeah, fundamentally it looks like someone just took the two dimensional analogy like this...

https://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...g&action=click


or the bowling ball on an elastic sheet example...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTY1Kje0yLg


https://xkcd.com/1158/

of a curved 3+1 dimensional space time as being directly physically representative and not just analogous.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:12 PM   #2451
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Off course an acceleration is to blame, everything else would be insane.
(About Dark Flow) If there is motion, it must have been accelerated, but that doesn't mean the acceleration still exists.

Quote:
The MTR theory even explain what so called " expanding space " really is = release of space tension.
No it can't. Your idea of space tension being alternatively made and released is absurd. It violates the laws of thermodynamics.


Quote:
Parallel with such a process a new Big Crunch takes place at the same time..

Following a ‘red thread’ is therefore also unproblematic for the MTR theory to a far higher degree than expected, even to a degree where it can be concluded that the concept dark energy simply must be due to changes in the elastic structure of space.
No, it is just word salad. You have no idea, no evidence.

Quote:
The distances in electromagnetic spectra are thus not stretched (expanding) while photons from distant stars travel towards us, but it is rather completely opposite; our physical reality is gradually being more and more contracted through billions of years due to the change (release of tension) in the elastic structure of space. Cosmological redshift is therefore in reality the evidence for reality transformation.
No, you make no sense.

Quote:
In other words: the cosmologic redshift indicates a universal gravitational field in constant change and obviously easily leads to the opinion that endless cycles of Big Crunch and Big Bang must be responsible for a race between increasing and decreasing tension in the structure of space which constantly affects the entire universe through billions of years


RR is evidence showing that the nature of space is elastic. So called dark energy is such evidence as well, and the force is gravity also.
Bjarne, you are just making stuff up. Nobody is fooled by it. I thought we might have an objective discussion like you asked for yourself, but you just sit there and make up stuff. That won't work. You aren't even really trying.

Hans
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:15 PM   #2452
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
With reference to space it self
If there are no speed / motion, there are no speed related tension acting on space, - so simple is that..
How can we detect the reference to "space itself"

Quote:
Its all about tension of space

Relativity is all about tension of space.

Space tension is the common denominator off all there is
Not until you provide some evidence.
.. Real evidence, not just baseless claims. Your claim that for instance the Pioneer anomaly is evidence is a baseless claim.

Hans
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:27 PM   #2453
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Not until you provide some evidence.
.. Real evidence, not just baseless claims. Your claim that for instance the Pioneer anomaly is evidence is a baseless claim.
It has become abundantly clear to me that as far as Bjarne is concerned, the fact that HE claims to believe it IS evidence. Some people simply accept their own views as immutable truth and openly mock and ridicule those who disagree.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:01 PM   #2454
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Thumbs down A lie about GR not connecting "matter / energy and space"

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
...The same pipe of tobacco is also the missing link, in the prevailing theory of relativity, - since that theory never addressed anything about have matter / energy and space is connected.
16 May 2018 Bjarne: A lie about GR not connecting "matter / energy and space".

The curvature of spacetime in GR is explicitly linked to matter, energy and pressure.

16 May 2018 Bjarne: A lie about "MTR theory" connecting "matter / energy and space" because his ignorant fantasies connect nothing.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:14 PM   #2455
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Thumbs down More MTR "theory" delusions and lies about the Big Bang

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
The MTR theory even explain what so called " expanding space " really is = release of space tension.
16 May 2018 Bjarne: More MTR "theory" delusions and lies about the Big Bang.

A delusion that the universe is both expanding and contracting ("new Big Crunch takes place at the same time")?

A couple of lies about the Big Crunch. This is a prediction of GR but his delusion includes that GR is wrong, i.e. he must think that prediction is at least dubious. He needs to predict a Big Crunch and a Big Bang from MTR "theory" but all he has is ignorant fantasies.
The current observational evidence is that the Big Crunch will not happen, e.g. the expansion of the universe is accelerating.

Ignorant gibberish about cosmological redshift.

A delusion that cosmological redshift "indicates a universal gravitational field in constant change" when cosmological redshift is nothing to do with gravitational fields. Cosmological redshift is simply a Doppler shift from the velocity of galaxies with the underlying cause of an expanding universe.

Last edited by Reality Check; 15th May 2018 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:20 PM   #2456
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Thumbs down A lie about RR which is a made-up negative scalar quantity

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
No RR is the magnitude of resistance against motion , and is increasing proportional to speed / true motion...
16 May 2018 Bjarne: A lie about RR which is a made-up negative scalar quantity with no direction.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:32 PM   #2457
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Thumbs down A couple of posts of "true motion" idiocy

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
True motion cannot be "negative" either
16 May 2018 Bjarne: A couple of posts of "true motion" idiocy.
A delusion that true motion/speed exists.

If you "move 1000 km/s left and at the same time 1000 km/s right" then there is no speed at all according to you.

Speed cannot be negative because speed is defined as the magnitude of a velocity.
Motion can be negative because it is a vector with both magnitude and direction. If I use a set of Cartesian coordinates where any object moving away from my front has positive motion (positive velocity) then any object moving away from my back has negative motion .
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Old 15th May 2018, 04:25 PM   #2458
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Well, I am a Dane like Bjarne, and a lot of his "imparsible" stuff can be parsed if you know Danish.

Besides, his ideas are rooted in the fact that he does not understand relativity, and his belief that because of that it must be wrong. Many people who do not understand the theory of relativity, intuitively think like Bjarne that movement is relative to a universal grid, or as Bjarne puts it, to space itself.

Space is in Bjarne's world an immovable grid that is sticky, and hence gets tensioned when objects move.

It is a bit sad that precisely the parts of relativity that Bjarne doesn't understand, are the parts that he thinks are the weakest points of the theory.

That helps a lot, thanks.
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Old 15th May 2018, 09:05 PM   #2459
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
How can we detect the reference to "space itself"
Hans
So what you ask is how can we understand the nature of space better ?
  • Follow so-called dark energy back to its source.
  • Follow the force of gravity back to its source.
  • Follow relativistic mass /energy increment back to the responsible process.
  • Follow the space / matter connection back to its source
At least abstract, - as you already did when the abstract "curvature of space" was invented (without any reason)

It should be remarkable that only by changing the old expression "Curvature of space" - to "elastic space", -such small innocent play with words, - brings you to a total different coherent universe, - rather to a incoherent universe where nothing fits together.

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Old 15th May 2018, 09:09 PM   #2460
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post

No it can't. Your idea of space tension being alternatively made and released is absurd. It violates the laws of thermodynamics.

Hans
No the MTR extend the laws of energy conservation, - by adding one more factor, - which is; space-tension-release, - known as so-called dark energy

Last edited by Bjarne; 15th May 2018 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 15th May 2018, 11:31 PM   #2461
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
No its the strongest point, such point, even abstract is necessary, otherwise there are no matter / space connection, - and this is excavate the case with the prevailing theory of reality, - there is a HUGE missing links / gap, that cannot be filled even with the wildest imagination.
How can it be a strong point that you do not understand the theory you criticize? You claim a missing link that is only missing in your understanding, not in the theory.
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:23 AM   #2462
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
No the MTR extend the laws of energy conservation, - by adding one more factor, - which is; space-tension-release, - known as so-called dark energy
Ah, making up more rules as you go? Sorry, Bjarne. That does not work. If you want to change the laws of thermodynamics, you need VERY solid proof.

Hans
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:28 AM   #2463
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
How can we detect the reference to "space itself"

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
So what you ask is how can we understand the nature of space better ?
Evasion noted. Bjarne, there is no honest way you can interpret my question in that way.

But let me rephrase it to something even MORE concrete:

What is Earths current velocity and direction relative to "space itself" and how will you measure it?


Hans
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:44 AM   #2464
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
How can it be a strong point that you do not understand the theory you criticize? You claim a missing link that is only missing in your understanding, not in the theory.
Nobody understand the prevailing theory of relativity. For example there are no connection between the so-called curvature of space and matter. So you can indeed say this is a "theory" or rather; this speculative thesis, - is without any earth connection at all.

Which mean there is nothing to understand.
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:48 AM   #2465
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Ah, making up more rules as you go? Sorry, Bjarne. That does not work. If you want to change the laws of thermodynamics, you need VERY solid proof.
Hans
BS
If would be the same as If I said if you believe in singularities you need solid proof.
The MTR is 100% complete, and 100% coherent, - this is much much more as what you can say abut the prevailing paradigm.

Both the prevailing (dying) "theory" (thesis) and the new MTR theory have abstract aspects, - nothing wrong with that.

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Old 16th May 2018, 02:56 AM   #2466
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
But let me rephrase it to something even MORE concrete:
What is Earths current velocity and direction relative to "space itself" and how will you measure it?
Hans
  1. Rulers are variants, so first you need to define , who is the observer.
  2. Lets say it is you, - now You can keep accelerating a spacecraft north, - so long you will measure faster clocks on board, - you are reducing your absolute speed. So soon the opposite begins to happens, you are increasing your absolute speed.
  3. To detect a ASAM effect, just do the same thing.

What you get is time dilation factors, - but these are in general relativistic transformation factors, - these can be converted to true-speed regardless whether these influence is positive or negative.

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Old 16th May 2018, 06:33 AM   #2467
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Nobody understand the prevailing theory of relativity. For example there are no connection between the so-called curvature of space and matter.
In reality (which I must admit has little connection to Bjarne's argument), Einstein's field equations state a mathematically precise connection between curvature of space and matter (which is a component of the stress-energy tensor Tμν). In geometrized units:

Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
Rμν - ˝ R gμν + Λ gμν = 8π Tμν


Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
So you can indeed say this is a "theory" or rather; this speculative thesis, - is without any earth connection at all.

Unlike Bjarne's "theory", which appeals to his fantasized results from experiments that have not yet been performed, Einstein's general theory of relativity has survived a long history of rigorous experimental testing:

Originally Posted by Clifford M Will
Tests of general relativity at the post-Newtonian level have reached high precision, including the light deflection, the Shapiro time delay, the perihelion advance of Mercury, the Nordtvedt effect in lunar motion, and frame-dragging. Gravitational-wave damping has been detected in an amount that agrees with general relativity to better than half a percent using the Hulse-Taylor binary pulsar, and a growing family of other binary pulsar systems is yielding new tests, especially of strong-field effects. Current and future tests of relativity will center on strong gravity and gravitational waves.

In a spectacular confirmation of Einstein's equations, gravitational waves were directly detected in 2015, the year after Will wrote his abstract quoted above.

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Which mean there is nothing to understand.
That's Bjarne's way of saying he doesn't understand Einstein's theory.

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
BS
If would be the same as If I said if you believe in singularities you need solid proof.
The MTR is 100% complete, and 100% coherent, - this is much much more as what you can say abut the prevailing paradigm.
The singularities implied by Einstein's general theory of relativity tell us that theory is not 100% complete, nor is it 100% coherent. It is, however, far more complete and coherent than Bjarne's MTR.

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Lets say it is you, - now You can keep accelerating a spacecraft north, - so long you will measure faster clocks on board, - you are reducing your absolute speed. So soon the opposite begins to happens, you are increasing your absolute speed.
If I understand this correctly, Bjarne deserves credit here for predicting a consequence of his theory that differs from the consequences of Einstein's theory. Those differing predictions could, in principle, be tested by an experiment.

Several such experiments have been performed. For example:
Originally Posted by Vessot et al
The results of a test of general relativity with use of a hydrogen-maser frequency standard in a spacecraft launched nearly vertically upward to 10 000 km are reported. The agreement of the observed relativistic frequency shift with prediction is at the 70×10−6 level.
Bjarne must now either abandon his theory, or explain how his theory is consistent with the results of that experiment (perhaps because I misunderstood his Danglish), or explain why that experiment was flawed.
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Old 16th May 2018, 06:59 AM   #2468
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Nobody understand the prevailing theory of relativity.
You are projecting your own shortcomings onto the world at large. Just because YOU can't understand it doesn't mean nobody else does. You also don't grasp differential calculus. That doesn't mean nobody else does.

Your projection is also inconsistent. For example, you have REPEATEDLY proven you have NO IDEA what a Lorentz anything is, yet you repeatedly invoke the name of Lorentz as if it were a magical talisman to automatically win a discussion.

Why do engage in borderline deification of Lorentz yet demonize Einstein when it's clear you don't understand the work of either man?

Edit: Given how much Bjarne gaslights and lies in this thread, I think I can get away with correcting a spelling mistake.
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:58 AM   #2469
W.D.Clinger
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
For example, you have REPEATEDLY proven you have NO IDEA what the Lorenz system is, yet you repeatedly invoke the name of Lorenz as if it were a magical talisman to automatically win a discussion.

Why do engage in borderline deification of Lorenz yet demonize Einstein when it's clear you don't understand the work of either man?

Bjarne deserves some credit for spelling Hendrik Lorentz's last name correctly.
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Old 16th May 2018, 08:13 AM   #2470
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
Bjarne deserves some credit for spelling Hendrik Lorentz's last name correctly.
Meh. He's so inconsistent with what he posts and what he claims who can say what he really means when he references anything? For all we know he could be trying to refer to Konrad Lorenz but spelling that name wrong.
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Old 16th May 2018, 08:23 AM   #2471
The Sparrow
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
...
yet you repeatedly invoke the name of Lorentz as if it were a magical talisman to automatically win a discussion....
Damn I love when people make metaphors like this!

Makes my day in a wonderful wonderful way
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Old 16th May 2018, 08:27 AM   #2472
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by The Sparrow View Post
Damn I love when people make metaphors like this!

Makes my day in a wonderful wonderful way
Thank you.

He might as well be waving a stick of wood screaming "Depulso Science!"
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:12 AM   #2473
Dancing David
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
  1. Rulers are variants, so first you need to define , who is the observer.
  2. Lets say it is you, - now You can keep accelerating a spacecraft north, - so long you will measure faster clocks on board, - you are reducing your absolute speed. So soon the opposite begins to happens, you are increasing your absolute speed.
  3. To detect a ASAM effect, just do the same thing.

What you get is time dilation factors, - but these are in general relativistic transformation factors, - these can be converted to true-speed regardless whether these influence is positive or negative.
It is that first and last bit I don't follow, how are you measuring speed in reference to what and then how are you converted to true speed.
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Old 16th May 2018, 09:43 AM   #2474
Bjarne
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
In reality (which I must admit has little connection to Bjarne's argument), Einstein's field equations state a mathematically precise connection between curvature of space and matter (which is a component of the stress-energy tensor Tμν). In geometrized units:
I mean ; - there are no cause > effect explanation at all. - Or in other words, WHY does space "curve" near matter. WHICH process is responsible.

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Unlike Bjarne's "theory", which appeals to his fantasized results from experiments that have not yet been performed, Einstein's general theory of relativity has survived a long history of rigorous experimental testing:
That's Bjarne's way of saying he doesn't understand Einstein's theory.
Within a year or 1˝ you will see that : there is nothing (except fantasy) to understand. He got it wrong, - this old theory is VERY incomplete, - and essential wrong, when it comes to; - the nature of space,.

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The singularities implied by Einstein's general theory of relativity tell us that theory is not 100% complete, nor is it 100% coherent. It is, however, far more complete and coherent than Bjarne's MTR.
its much worse than this

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If I understand this correctly, Bjarne deserves credit here for predicting a consequence of his theory that differs from the consequences of Einstein's theory. Those differing predictions could, in principle, be tested by an experiment.

Several such experiments have been performed. For example:
There are no disagreement at this point, according to which results must be expected, however the cause of that phenomena is that; - the deeper in a gravitational field a photons is emitted,the more redshiftet it is, - already when emitted. Its the same principle responsible for cosmological redshift.

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Bjarne must now either abandon his theory, or explain how his theory is consistent with the results of that experiment (perhaps because I misunderstood his Danglish), or explain why that experiment was flawed.
There are no information about a launch north (relative to ecliptic) and even if this was the case the speed would be relative low. - Wait for the ISS test.

Last edited by Bjarne; 16th May 2018 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 16th May 2018, 10:04 AM   #2475
Bjarne
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
It is that first and last bit I don't follow, how are you measuring speed in reference to what and then how are you converted to true speed.
Any observer can measure true motion, - however if a observer don't know which direction will increase or decrease true-speed, he have a problem to solve first.
To solve this he can use time dilation.
A certain kinematic based time dilation correspond to a certain true-speed increase or decrease.
Off course gravity is causing a similar time dilation influence that have to be filtered.

Last edited by Bjarne; 16th May 2018 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 16th May 2018, 10:32 AM   #2476
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Within a year or 1˝ you will see that
How long have you been saying that? Seems you've been prattling about "proof" being a year and a half away for a LOT longer than a year and a half.

Does your day job involve predicting the date and time of the Rapture?

Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Any observer can measure true motion
Then do so.

Demonstrate this measurement.
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Old 16th May 2018, 10:56 AM   #2477
Dancing David
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Any observer can measure true motion, - however if a observer don't know which direction will increase or decrease true-speed, he have a problem to solve first.
To solve this he can use time dilation.
A certain kinematic based time dilation correspond to a certain true-speed increase or decrease.
Off course gravity is causing a similar time dilation influence that have to be filtered.
S0 I take off in my space ship, how do I measure time dilation while I am on my space ship?
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Old 16th May 2018, 11:22 AM   #2478
Bjarne
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
S0 I take off in my space ship, how do I measure time dilation while I am on my space ship?
Relative to a clock on earth
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:14 PM   #2479
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Relative to a clock on earth
Is there anyone left taking Bjarne's nonsense at face value?
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:19 PM   #2480
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Is there anyone left taking Bjarne's nonsense at face value?
Yes, Bjarne.
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