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Old 13th May 2018, 09:44 PM   #1
MicahJava
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The 9/11 Commission Didn’t Believe the Government … So Why Should We?

http://washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/9...overnment.html

I cannot type very much for the next few days. I just wanted to ask everybody's opinion on the fact that the 9/11 Commission was such a cover-up that even over half of the Commissioners had to admit it. You know it's getting bad when they can have something worse than the Warren Commission and still somehow make it even MORE shunned to question it. What's wrong, government defenders? I thought we lived in freaking Candy Land where coverups never happen?
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Old 13th May 2018, 11:00 PM   #2
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How many straw men per week are you going to make MicahJava
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Old 13th May 2018, 11:16 PM   #3
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"I didn't say it wasn't a coverup..."
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Old 14th May 2018, 02:04 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
One of the most telling things about CT websites is the disdain they have for their readers. They assume that most of them will eagerly lap up the swill, and not check the facts. Infowars does this a lot too. If you follow the links in the articles, they most often lead to another CT echo chamber, to a source that actually debunks the claim, or just don't work at all. This article fulfills all of these criteria. MicahJava: did you follow any of the links? Are you aware of how many of them either don't work or actually debunk the clickbait headline?

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I cannot type very much for the next few days. I just wanted to ask everybody's opinion on the fact that the 9/11 Commission was such a cover-up that even over half of the Commissioners had to admit it. You know it's getting bad when they can have something worse than the Warren Commission and still somehow make it even MORE shunned to question it. What's wrong, government defenders? I thought we lived in freaking Candy Land where coverups never happen?
When you regain the use of your fingers, perhaps you could answer the following:
1. Please cite evidence that over half of the Commissioners admitted the report was a cover-up. Your link contains no such evidence.

<snip>


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited for Rule 11.
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Old 14th May 2018, 06:05 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by topic
The 9/11 Commission Didn’t Believe the Government … So Why Should We?
On what, specifically?

That may help responding the next question.
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Old 14th May 2018, 06:25 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I just wanted to ask everybody's opinion on the fact that the 9/11 Commission was such a cover-up that even over half of the Commissioners had to admit it.
My opinion of it is that things that are blatantly untrue aren't actually facts, however many carefully mined quotes you cite out of context to try and support them.

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Old 14th May 2018, 06:51 AM   #7
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So, instead of the cherry-picked quotes, let's read them in context.
  • 9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue
  • The 9/11 Commission chair said the Commission was “set up to fail”
Let's go to the link and read...
Solomon: You write.. the first chapter of the book is 'the Commission was set up to fail.' - my goodness, for the critics - who suggest that it was indeed set up to fail as some kind of obfuscation - you certainly dangled a juicy piece of bait out there in the river. Why do you think you were set up to fail?

Hamilton: Well, for a number of reasons: Tom Kean and I were substitutes - Henry Kissinger and George Mitchell were the first choices; we got started late; we had a very short time frame - indeed, we had to get it extended; we did not have enough money - 3 million dollars to conduct an extensive investigation. We needed more, we got more, but it took us a while to get it.

We had a lot of skeptics out there, who really did not want the Commission formed. Politicians don’t like somebody looking back to see if they made a mistake.
The Commission had to report right, just a few days before the Democratic National Convention met, in other words, right in the middle of a political campaign. We had a lot of people strongly opposed to what we did. We had a lot of trouble getting access to documents and to people. We knew the history of commissions; the history of commissions were they.. nobody paid much attention to 'em.

So there were all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail. We decided that if we were going to have any success, we had to have a unanimous report, otherwise the Commission report would simply be filed.

Solomon: I guess the question is, you know, if forty odd million dollars were spent investigating President Bill Clinton’s sexual infidelities, why did the American people and the world have to wait 441 days for a commission that was originally budgeted for 3 million dollars and given barely a year [...]

Hamilton: (Laughs) I think basically it’s because they were afraid we were going to hang somebody, that we would point the finger, right in the middle of a presidential campaign - 'Mr. Bush, this was your fault' - or even Mr. Clinton. President Clinton was wary about this report too.

Now I want to say, eventurally both presidents cooperated, but it took a while. And it’s not too unusual for me to understand that they were skeptical.
About the "I don't believe for a moment we got everything right":
Were we right in every case? I suspect not. Were we right in most cases? I think so.
http://web.archive.org/web/200701082...1hamilton.html

Obviously, the questions and debate that Hamilton refers to are about how things were handled, not about whether there's an alternative story. He believes they got most things right, why shouldn't you?


  • The Commission’s co-chairs said that the CIA (and likely the White House) “obstructed our investigation”
... but eventually cooperated.


  • 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .”
Nice quote mining. "We didn't have access to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed", says the whole quote for the second part. And the context of the other quote tells the whole story:
Kerrey was dismissive of the conspiracy theories as well. Asked about the possibility of a controlled demolition at the World Trade Center, he scoffed, "There's no evidence for that." But he also noted that, quite apart from what Avery and others in the "truth movement" have proposed, many legitimate mysteries still surround the events of that day. "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version," Kerrey said. The commission had limited time and limited resources to pursue its investigation, and its access to key documents and witnesses was fettered by the administration. "I didn't read a single PDB," Kerrey said, referring to the president's daily intelligence briefing reports. "We didn't have access to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed," the mastermind of the plot. "We accepted a compromise, submitting our questions to him through the CIA. Now, that's not the best way to go about getting your questions answered. So I'm 100 percent certain that [bin Laden] directed that attack, but am I completely comfortable saying there was no direct Saudi involvement, or that Saddam Hussein wasn't involved in some fashion, or that the Iranians weren't involved? I'm pretty close to 100 percent certain, but I'd be more comfortable if we'd interviewed Khalid Shaikh Mohammed."
https://www.salon.com/2006/06/27/911_conspiracies/


  • 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”
And the link says
"Authorities suggested that U.S. air defenses had reacted quickly, that jets had been scrambled in response to the last two hijackings and that fighters were prepared to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 if it threatened Washington.

"In fact, the commission reported a year later, audiotapes from NORAD's Northeast headquarters and other evidence showed clearly that the military never had any of the hijacked airliners in its sights and at one point chased a phantom aircraft -- American Airlines Flight 11 -- long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center"
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/...gon/index.html

What can we deduce from the whole quote: 1) That the military were trying to cover their asses for the poor reaction, 2) that they actually did a poor job, 3) that the Commission actually found the truth, and 4) that the quote in the article linked by MicahJava is misleading again.

I haven't bothered to go past that one. It should be obvious at this point that if MJ really thinks that the Commission had credibility when they complained about all these things, they also should have credibility about the version that they reported, as they eventually succeeded in getting a reasonably accurate account of the facts.
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Last edited by pgimeno; 14th May 2018 at 06:56 AM. Reason: add more links
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Old 14th May 2018, 10:12 AM   #8
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Hilarious. Because Agent Smith himself didn't fly the planes, means there's nothing to worry about the 9/11 Commission being fraud.
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Old 14th May 2018, 10:30 AM   #9
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Sorry, what year is this?

Thought I went through a time warp there!
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Old 14th May 2018, 10:38 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
http://washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/9...overnment.html

I cannot type very much for the next few days. I just wanted to ask everybody's opinion on the fact that the 9/11 Commission was such a cover-up that even over half of the Commissioners had to admit it. You know it's getting bad when they can have something worse than the Warren Commission and still somehow make it even MORE shunned to question it. What's wrong, government defenders? I thought we lived in freaking Candy Land where coverups never happen?

My opinion is, I don't care whether you believe the government or not. Why should I?
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Old 14th May 2018, 01:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Hilarious. Because Agent Smith himself didn't fly the planes, means there's nothing to worry about the 9/11 Commission being fraud.
What fraud? Do you agree with Hamilton, the same guy who said it was "set up to fail", that "there were all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail. We decided that if we were going to have any success, we had to have a unanimous report, otherwise the Commission report would simply be filed" and "Were we right in every case? I suspect not. Were we right in most cases? I think so."?
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Old 14th May 2018, 03:06 PM   #12
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MicahJava,

the "official story" which 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists claim is essentially false, and a significantly different story needs to be put in its place, is roughly this:
  1. 19 Sunni Arabic men, inspired and sponsored by OBL, lead by KSM, motivated by grievances rooted in their extremist flavour of Muslim faith, were trained in Afghanistan and at flight schools in the USA,
  2. preparations which several US services did not detect as a larger consoiracy in time to prevent the attack,
  3. these 19 hijacked 4 commercial airliners at knife-point,
  4. piloted them into three buildings and a field using the usual cockpit controls,
  5. while airport security and NORAD failed to intecept them.
  6. The crashes started devastating fires, destroyed several buildings, and resulted in almost 3,000 deaths
Do you agree that this outline fairly captured the "official" or "government story"? Did I forget anything important? Then feel free to add.


Now please provide us with any and all names of Commission members and/or staffers who disagree with this story, and tell us which elements, specifically they disagree with (make reference to the numbered list above!), and what they believe happened instead!


Prediction: Micah Java will NOT answer this request. He will NOT name a single Commission member/staffer who substantially disagrees with any element of the commonly accepted narrative, because in actual truth, none of them believes the official story is wrong. None. MJ must know this, but won't ever admit this truth. A 9/11 "Truther" is, after all, best defined as a person who claims anything about 9/11 except the truth. A "Truther" will never, under no circumstances whatsoever, give a straight and honest answer to a straight and honest question about 9/11, if it reveals as lies the utterings of the "Truth" Movement.
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Old 14th May 2018, 07:17 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Hilarious. Because Agent Smith himself didn't fly the planes, means there's nothing to worry about the 9/11 Commission being fraud.
There is a huge difference between something not being a complete story and something being a fraud.

The issue of Time Magazine immediately following the attack laid out just about everything that went wrong with the failure of intelligence (because the relative parties were leaking this information to trusted reporters), so by the time the commission got started 90% of the story was already known by those who read newspapers.

We had to wait on the famous "28 Pages" but even then we pretty much knew what they were going to say.

We know the long list of CIA, FBI, and State Department failures.

We now know that the CIA dropped the ball, and we know that it all came down to one as yet unnamed case manager not willing to pass important information to the FBI.

That's all there is to know now about 9-11.

Al Qaeda did it.
We might have been able to stop it, but couldn't due to long standing inter-agency BS (that goes back to the JFK Assassination BTW).

That's all she wrote.
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Old 14th May 2018, 07:38 PM   #14
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Do you know, they're putting it in ice cream, Micah? Children's ice cream?
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:17 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
There is a huge difference between something not being a complete story and something being a fraud.
This ^

Hence my question "what fraud".

The commissioners did a great job at investigating the details despite the poor means they had.
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Old 15th May 2018, 10:54 AM   #16
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Okay, the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "Oh yeah, the 9/11 Commission was a total coverup, but don't worry because it was still an Al Qaeta plot"?
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Old 15th May 2018, 11:10 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay, the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "Oh yeah, the 9/11 Commission was a total coverup, but don't worry because it was still an Al Qaeta plot"?
That depends on the type of coverup and to what degree. If it's just minimizing your mistakes and missteps, is a coverup of the first degree, so to speak, and of course, OF course Al Qaeda could still be involved. And the evidence says yes they did it, plus there is huge precedent for it, and they claimed responsibility. I hope you don't think these al Qaeda guys were incompetent, "cave dwelling", backwater natives.
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Old 15th May 2018, 11:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay, the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "Oh yeah, the 9/11 Commission was a total coverup, but don't worry because it was still an Al Qaeta plot"?
There is a difference between cover up the fact you left the door unlocked to the house, and cover up the fact that you were really the burglar in disguise
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Old 15th May 2018, 12:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay, the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "Oh yeah, the 9/11 Commission was a total coverup, but don't worry because it was still an Al Qaeta plot"?
No, that is absolutely totally a big fat *********** lie.

The general gist is that Truthers never ever say anything true about 9/11. As example, you completely failed to tell us which 9/11 Commission member or staffer does, in fact, not believe any part of the "government" story, when you failed to address this:
The "official story", which 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists claim is essentially false, and a significantly different story needs to be put in its place, is roughly this:
  1. 19 Sunni Arabic men, inspired and sponsored by OBL, lead by KSM, motivated by grievances rooted in their extremist flavour of Muslim faith, were trained in Afghanistan and at flight schools in the USA,
  2. preparations which several US services did not detect as a larger consoiracy in time to prevent the attack,
  3. these 19 hijacked 4 commercial airliners at knife-point,
  4. piloted them into three buildings and a field using the usual cockpit controls,
  5. while airport security and NORAD failed to intecept them.
  6. The crashes started devastating fires, destroyed several buildings, and resulted in almost 3,000 deaths
Do you agree that this outline fairly captured the "official" or "government story"? Did I forget anything important? Then feel free to add.


Now please provide us with any and all names of Commission members and/or staffers who disagree with this story, and tell us which elements, specifically they disagree with (make reference to the numbered list above!), and what they believe happened instead!
I take your non-reply as your implicit admission that
a) Yes, I paraphrased the "official" or "government" story fairly and sufficiently completely
b) No, not a single 9/11 Commission member or staffer disbelieves any part of it
c) You are aware that your thread title and opening post is a *********** lie

Thanks for playing and losing by default (by not defending your lies when exposed).
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:05 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
http://washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/9...overnment.html

I cannot type very much for the next few days. I just wanted to ask everybody's opinion on the fact that the 9/11 Commission was such a cover-up that even over half of the Commissioners had to admit it. You know it's getting bad when they can have something worse than the Warren Commission and still somehow make it even MORE shunned to question it. What's wrong, government defenders? I thought we lived in freaking Candy Land where coverups never happen?
The classic post nonsense, and run away. So far your 9/11 anomalies have proved to be nothing - you lost before your started, picking the side of fantasy, paranoia and lies. There is an opening in the current government for alternate facts minister of woo, apply soon.

19 terrorists did 9/11, and you can't figure it out? So you make up silly paranoid nonsense like this.

The 9/11 commission is the government. Thus, again, massive failure to be logical, and massive failure at trying to solve 9/11.

You offer no evidence of a cover up, not much to discuss when it comes to your fantasy version of 9/11 which you and 9/11 truth can't explain.

Yes, the government can keep massive coverups secret like Watergate... oops


Spock say, most illogical


It is also silly to think you can stop a terrorist attack when they make up a new way to murder which is a play on customs at the time. Before 9/11 hijackings played out in hours or days. If you or I knew or could sell the idea of a fake hijacking to get in the cockpit kill the pilots and fly jets into buildings to murder thousands... really, who would believe you? Where can you find idiots as stupid at the 19 terrorists, which at least four had to know it was 'last day'. Only in 9/11 truth can we find people gullible enough to repeat lies aimlessly.

As for CIA or FBI able to stop 9/11, ask yourself next time you are in an accident, attacked, beaten, property stolen, etc, etc, why did you let it happen. If we could stop acts of others before it happens, we would be characters in a fictional novel. Can we stop what we have no clue is about to happen? Ask the football team when they were fooled by the first forward pass... or some similar first time. Israel had closed cockpits I believe, and they would not play games with hijackers - ask DB Cooper what we did to hijackers before 9/11.

Conspiracy theorists are skeptical, very skeptical, and gullible. You ignore facts and evidence. Skeptical of facts, accepting claims of a cover up you can't support.
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:12 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay, the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "Oh yeah, the 9/11 Commission was a total coverup, but don't worry because it was still an Al Qaeta plot"?
That's a very peculiar view to form from what's been written here. It certainly helps colour my own view regarding your thought processes.
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:23 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay, the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "Oh yeah, the 9/11 Commission was a total coverup, but don't worry because it was still an Al Qaeta plot"?
And the vibe the rest of us are getting is "Someone's having a hissy fit because he got called out on a lie." The truth is, no, the 9/11 Commission didn't automatically believe the government; they assessed the evidence sceptically, queried it where they saw inconsistencies, and did their best to get to the bottom of the causes of events. And since this is what truthers all pretend to do but never somehow manage, one might reply to you with the question: Since the 9/11 Commission didn't believe all the government told them, but actually investigated it, in what universe is that a cover-up?

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Old 15th May 2018, 01:24 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
The classic post nonsense, and run away. So far your 9/11 anomalies have proved to be nothing - you lost before your started, picking the side of fantasy, paranoia and lies. There is an opening in the current government for alternate facts minister of woo, apply soon.

19 terrorists did 9/11, and you can't figure it out? So you make up silly paranoid nonsense like this.

The 9/11 commission is the government. Thus, again, massive failure to be logical, and massive failure at trying to solve 9/11.

You offer no evidence of a cover up, not much to discuss when it comes to your fantasy version of 9/11 which you and 9/11 truth can't explain.

Yes, the government can keep massive coverups secret like Watergate... oops


Spock say, most illogical


It is also silly to think you can stop a terrorist attack when they make up a new way to murder which is a play on customs at the time. Before 9/11 hijackings played out in hours or days. If you or I knew or could sell the idea of a fake hijacking to get in the cockpit kill the pilots and fly jets into buildings to murder thousands... really, who would believe you? Where can you find idiots as stupid at the 19 terrorists, which at least four had to know it was 'last day'. Only in 9/11 truth can we find people gullible enough to repeat lies aimlessly.

As for CIA or FBI able to stop 9/11, ask yourself next time you are in an accident, attacked, beaten, property stolen, etc, etc, why did you let it happen. If we could stop acts of others before it happens, we would be characters in a fictional novel. Can we stop what we have no clue is about to happen? Ask the football team when they were fooled by the first forward pass... or some similar first time. Israel had closed cockpits I believe, and they would not play games with hijackers - ask DB Cooper what we did to hijackers before 9/11.

Conspiracy theorists are skeptical, very skeptical, and gullible. You ignore facts and evidence. Skeptical of facts, accepting claims of a cover up you can't support.
Beachnut, if you think 9/11 conspiracy theories are ridiculous, you can only say so because they don't fit the evidence. But the government has indeed conceived of plans to stage attacks with fake airplanes, for example Operation Northwoods and the Bush-Blair 2003 meeting. So the idea of using such massive deceptions to start pointless war is actually historical fact.

We already know that Iraq was 100% pointless and forced to happen under false pretenses, which is another conspiracy theory that had later been proven to be true with zero repercussions for the guilty.
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:43 PM   #24
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:44 PM   #25
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Hilarious twisting of illogic into circular nonsense. You 'argument' appears to be: the government has contemplated using false flags to start pointless wars, this war was pointless, therefore it was precipitated by a government false flag.

Rewind that a bit and explain to us why pointlessness is the criterion by which we recognise the hand of government at play? Then you can start explaining why, if 9/11 was a false flag for an attack in Iraq, why was the false flag most definitely not a false Iraqi flag?
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:55 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Beachnut, if you think 9/11 conspiracy theories are ridiculous, you can only say so because they don't fit the evidence. But the government has indeed conceived of plans to stage attacks with fake airplanes, for example Operation Northwoods and the Bush-Blair 2003 meeting. So the idea of using such massive deceptions to start pointless war is actually historical fact.

We already know that Iraq was 100% pointless and forced to happen under false pretenses, which is another conspiracy theory that had later been proven to be true with zero repercussions for the guilty.
Whataboutism.
Moving goal posts
Running away from pertinent questions such as:
The "official story", which 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists claim is essentially false, and a significantly different story needs to be put in its place, is roughly this:
  1. 19 Sunni Arabic men, inspired and sponsored by OBL, lead by KSM, motivated by grievances rooted in their extremist flavour of Muslim faith, were trained in Afghanistan and at flight schools in the USA,
  2. preparations which several US services did not detect as a larger consoiracy in time to prevent the attack,
  3. these 19 hijacked 4 commercial airliners at knife-point,
  4. piloted them into three buildings and a field using the usual cockpit controls,
  5. while airport security and NORAD failed to intecept them.
  6. The crashes started devastating fires, destroyed several buildings, and resulted in almost 3,000 deaths
Do you agree that this outline fairly captured the "official" or "government story"? Did I forget anything important? Then feel free to add.


Now please provide us with any and all names of Commission members and/or staffers who disagree with this story, and tell us which elements, specifically they disagree with (make reference to the numbered list above!), and what they believe happened instead!
Please answer.
Try to be honest for once and admit that there is not a single Commission member or staffer who does not believe even a single element of the official government story essenntials.

But you will continue to run away, and thereby continue to document what a dishonest human being you are.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:08 PM   #27
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Micah, have you ever seen a Commission member drinking water? Vodka, that's what they drink.
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Old 15th May 2018, 02:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay, the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "Oh yeah, the 9/11 Commission was a total coverup, but don't worry because it was still an Al Qaeta plot"?
While the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "OP is engaging in evidence-free polemics and strawmen, but don't worry that's OP's MO."
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Old 15th May 2018, 04:20 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Beachnut, if you think 9/11 conspiracy theories are ridiculous, you can only say so because they don't fit the evidence. But the government has indeed conceived of plans to stage attacks with fake airplanes, for example Operation Northwoods and the Bush-Blair 2003 meeting. So the idea of using such massive deceptions to start pointless war is actually historical fact.

Neither of those contemplated "stag[ing] attacks with fake airplanes." Further, no intentional friendly deaths or serious injuries were contemplated in either case. Fail.
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Old 15th May 2018, 04:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Beachnut, if you think 9/11 conspiracy theories are ridiculous, you can only say so because they don't fit the evidence. But the government has indeed conceived of plans to stage attacks with fake airplanes, for example Operation Northwoods and the Bush-Blair 2003 meeting. So the idea of using such massive deceptions to start pointless war is actually historical fact.

We already know that Iraq was 100% pointless and forced to happen under false pretenses, which is another conspiracy theory that had later been proven to be true with zero repercussions for the guilty.
First, it is clear you've only just read the memo recently, even though it was made public in 2006, and since you live a context-free existence you're chasing another parked car.

Second, you suck at conspiracies. IF the attacks were staged to justify invading Iraq, the WHY WERE NO IRAQI'S USED AS HIJACKERS? If the Bush Administration did this because they knew Iraq had no WMD's then WHY DIDN'T THE US PLANT WMD'S IN IRAQ EARLY IN THE INVASION FOR US TROOPS TO "FIND"?

Operation Northwoods has been a CT canard since 1998, and is used by morons as a cornerstone for their theories about false flag operations. What is forgotten is that it was just a proposal that got laughed out of the room when it was pointed out that such an operation would end up with JFK's cabinet, and JFK all getting the electric chair. You leave out that Operation Mongoose was the plan they put into action, and even that crossed enough lines to cause concern, and lead to government agencies hiding material from the Warren Commission in 1964...which you'd know if you read adult history books instead of CT books.
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Old 15th May 2018, 06:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Hilarious. Because Agent Smith himself didn't fly the planes, means there's nothing to worry about the 9/11 Commission being fraud.
What fraud?
<crickets>

Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Do you agree with Hamilton, the same guy who said it was "set up to fail", that "there were all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail. We decided that if we were going to have any success, we had to have a unanimous report, otherwise the Commission report would simply be filed" and "Were we right in every case? I suspect not. Were we right in most cases? I think so."?
<crickets>

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay, the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "Oh yeah, the 9/11 Commission was a total coverup, but don't worry because it was still an Al Qaeta plot"?
Cover-up for what?

Expected response: <crickets>

Is that all you have to offer? Biased misinterpretations of what was said, and articles that debunk themselves by just checking the references?

Do you ever do a fact-check of what you read? Apply some basic epistemology to tell the BS for what it is? Or do you just swallow hook, line and sinker whenever what you read fits your political views? If the latter, you're very malleable.
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Old 15th May 2018, 06:10 PM   #32
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(post deleted - the essence of its contents is already in the thread)
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Last edited by pgimeno; 15th May 2018 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 15th May 2018, 06:43 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Beachnut, if you think 9/11 conspiracy theories are ridiculous,
It is not an opinion, or thinking, it is a fact, based on evidence. 9/11 truth has no evidence, only paranoia, gullibility, and lots of woo.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
you can only say so because they don't fit the evidence.
lol, this is funny - yes, evidence is the key.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
But the government has indeed conceived of plans to stage attacks with fake airplanes, for example Operation Northwoods and the Bush-Blair 2003 meeting.
What? Operation Northwoods? Some crazy military guys wrote a paper/plan, it was not used. There are a lot of crazy military guys, who say and plan stupid stuff, hopefully rational people just say no.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So the idea of using such massive deceptions to start pointless war is actually historical fact.
Like WWII? Civil War? War of 1812? What are you trying to say? You make up illogical nonsense to support a fantasy not based in reality, your 9/11 coverup inside job, who knows nonsense.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
We already know that Iraq was 100% pointless and forced to happen under false pretenses,
Why has any western power been able to figure out the Middle East? I never liked Saddam, he tried to kill me with a V-2 like weapon, and all he did was blow out my command post window, a former airline office/passenger thing in downtown Riyadh airport. It was surrealistic, as I sat in my Crown Victoria (a car furnished by some Prince) listening to the BBC about the 'war', I was thinking about my dad in London in 1944, when V-2 would hit and the shockwave could kill people blocks away, here was Saddam using the same kind of rocket, and I smiled. Do you support Saddam? It is like Catch 22, no matter what we do, it will not work out.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
which is another conspiracy theory that had later been proven to be true with zero repercussions for the guilty.
Nope, it was not a Conspiracy Theory, it was a choice, maybe a poor choice, who knows what leaving Saddam in charge of Iraq would bring? Do you? You are confused, my brother said there were no wmds, I told him I did not like Saddam, and agreed we would not be happy with the outcome, but who knows what inaction would bring.

I don't think you understand what a conspiracy theory is. It does not matter in 9/11 truth's case, they never made it past the fantasy range.

Don't fett, you are one of the biggest skeptics, but due to your ideas on 9/11, you are gullible. You are skeptical of facts and evidence, and failed to refute the facts and evidence which supports what Oystein has posted.

Oystein post is the key, you ignore the facts and evidence.

The 9/11 commision was a political/what went wrong investigation, the FBI is the facts and evidence investigation. NIST was looking to see if WTC was properly constructed and looked to how to improve buildings. USGS, studied dust, 9/11 truth made up lies about dust, ignoring all Oystein posted.

You will now move the goalposts, or something.
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Old 16th May 2018, 06:52 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
One of the most telling things about CT websites is the disdain they have for their readers. They assume that most of them will eagerly lap up the swill, and not check the facts.
Is it disdain if it is right on?
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Old 16th May 2018, 11:25 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by rambaldi View Post
Is it disdain if it is right on?
Stupid uniformed sheeple, lapping up conspiracy theory woo left and right...

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Old 16th May 2018, 03:23 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay, the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "Oh yeah, the 9/11 Commission was a total coverup, but don't worry because it was still an Al Qaeta plot"?
I don't know how you would have got that vibe.
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Old 16th May 2018, 04:19 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I don't know how you would have got that vibe.
Poor reading comprehension.
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Old 16th May 2018, 06:46 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay, the vibe I'm getting from this thread is "Oh yeah, the 9/11 Commission was a total coverup, but don't worry because it was still an Al Qaeta plot"?
See, that's the problem with vibes.

While producing stimulation and satisfaction, those feelings are usually seen as fantasy to those who aren't under the influence of your vibrator.
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Old 17th May 2018, 08:15 PM   #39
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"The 9/11 Commission didn't get everything right, so we are justified in believing anything we want."
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Old 20th May 2018, 02:14 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Beachnut, if you think 9/11 conspiracy theories are ridiculous, you can only say so because they don't fit the evidence. But the government has indeed conceived of plans to stage attacks with fake airplanes, for example Operation Northwoods and the Bush-Blair 2003 meeting. So the idea of using such massive deceptions to start pointless war is actually historical fact.
Northwoods was never done, only proposed/considered, and lends no credence to crazy conspiracy theories like "a missile hit WTC" that there is no evidence for, and mountains of evidence against. Try again.

Quote:
We already know that Iraq was 100% pointless and forced to happen under false pretenses, which is another conspiracy theory that had later been proven to be true with zero repercussions for the guilty.
That Iraq didn't have WMDs and was started for shady reasons was never a conspiracy theory. Ever.
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