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Tags hurricanes , natural disasters

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Old 13th September 2018, 01:06 PM   #41
dudalb
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Awww....
Still in denial that we have an idiiot in the White House, I see.
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Old 13th September 2018, 01:07 PM   #42
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Getting the usual interviews from the Darwin Award wannabes who are refusing manadatory evacuation orders and are going to "ride it out".
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Old 13th September 2018, 01:25 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Getting the usual interviews from the Darwin Award wannabes who are refusing manadatory evacuation orders and are going to "ride it out".
Judging by the predicted rainfall and storm surges, lots of things will "ride it out" - they'll ride down the rivers, out into the sea, perhaps into the Gulf Stream.

In another year or two we'll start getting stories about people's personal objects being found on the coasts of Scotland.

Last edited by crescent; 13th September 2018 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 13th September 2018, 01:27 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Judging by the predicted rainfall and storm surges, lots of things will "ride it out" - they'll ride down the rivers, into the sea, perhaps into the Gulf Stream.

In another year or two we'll start getting stories about people's personal objects being found on the coasts of Scotland.
I think the Darwin Awards should give out a special "Group Acheivment" award for these morons.
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Old 13th September 2018, 03:01 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Getting the usual interviews from the Darwin Award wannabes who are refusing manadatory evacuation orders and are going to "ride it out".
A lot of those people are staying because they don't have the logistical or financial ability to evacuate.
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Old 13th September 2018, 03:07 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
A lot of those people are staying because they don't have the logistical or financial ability to evacuate.
I would expect as much, living a bit closer to the "ragged edge" than many, I would need to give serious consideration to the financial impact of the travel and lodging expense in relation to the possibility of getting killed. I suppose people worse off than me might need to weight that consideration even greater.
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Old 13th September 2018, 03:17 PM   #47
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I am guessing that there are a number of free shelters available in areas receiving a lot of evacuees. Churches, schools and such.

Pets might be an issue. Horse people generally take care of each other, but people with dogs and cats and such may find it harder to find shelters willing to accommodate people and pets together.

Travel would still be an expense though.
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Old 13th September 2018, 03:32 PM   #48
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Right about now some of the stragglers are experiencing their "Oh... Holy ****" moments.
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Old 13th September 2018, 04:07 PM   #49
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Reading the interviews of people staying, especially with children, is just disgusting. I try not to be mean-spirited, but damn. Even without kids, what do they think they are going to accomplish? I just don't get it.
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Old 13th September 2018, 04:35 PM   #50
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I am not quite buying the "Many stay because they cannot afford to evacuate" thesis.
There are shelters, and I am pretty sure the involved local governments could arrange to use public transportation to get them out of the danger zone.
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Old 13th September 2018, 04:50 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Reading the interviews of people staying, especially with children, is just disgusting. I try not to be mean-spirited, but damn. Even without kids, what do they think they are going to accomplish? I just don't get it.
I stayed on an NJ barrier island for Sandy a few Years back, my logic being I could assist others who needed help (they did), mitigate damages like moving valuables away from broken windows or other storm damaged areas, and could begin damage control after she passed.
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Old 13th September 2018, 05:28 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I stayed on an NJ barrier island for Sandy a few Years back, my logic being I could assist others who needed help (they did), mitigate damages like moving valuables away from broken windows or other storm damaged areas, and could begin damage control after she passed.

That's a little different, though. By the time Sandy came to the NJ barrier islands, she was no longer a hurricane. The risk that she would tear down the walls around you and dump you into raging flood waters was minimal (though not zero). I imagine you were prepared to abide in place without grid power, running water, vehicle access etc. for quite a while (in terms of both materiel on hand and knowledge of how to use it to keep yourself and others fed, hydrated, comfortable, and sanitary). Unfortunately fewer and fewer people seem to have that skill set.

Good for you for being able and willing to help others. The real question is, what were the others who needed that help thinking when they decided to stay?
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Old 13th September 2018, 05:43 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by CNN
And don't be fooled by the fact that Florence has weakened slightly to a Category 2 hurricane. Categories only represent the speed of sustained winds, and these are still destructive.

"I don't care if this goes down to a Category 1. We're still going to have a Category 4 storm surge," CNN meteorologist Chad Myers said.

Originally Posted by Weather.com
Hurricane Florence's strongest band of rain and wind yet is now moving through eastern North Carolina. Sustained hurricane force winds have been recorded at Cape Lookout, North Carolina, but a wind gust of 99 mph was recently reported at Fort Macon, North Carolina.

Wind gusts over 80 mph have been recorded in several spots this evening.
Holding steady at Cat 2 but it will still be bad.
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Old 13th September 2018, 06:18 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
That's a little different, though. By the time Sandy came to the NJ barrier islands, she was no longer a hurricane. The risk that she would tear down the walls around you and dump you into raging flood waters was minimal (though not zero). I imagine you were prepared to abide in place without grid power, running water, vehicle access etc. for quite a while (in terms of both materiel on hand and knowledge of how to use it to keep yourself and others fed, hydrated, comfortable, and sanitary). Unfortunately fewer and fewer people seem to have that skill set.

Good for you for being able and willing to help others. The real question is, what were the others who needed that help thinking when they decided to stay?
That's true, Sandy was barely Cat 1 (Gov Christie got creative with measuring windspeed at landfall and she was declared 'not a hurricane' by like 2mph, qualifying Jersey for aid). Florence is packing much more punch, she looks to be no joke.

The people that stayed during Sandy are my neighbors, some elderly, no way I could leave. I was as stocked as I could get at short notice and had a gassed-up contractor generator high and dry so everyone could charge their phones and contact family inland, anticipating all power and phone lines would be down. All access bridges were closed for days but power either stayed on or was back up within 48 hours or so. Five feet of water on some streets.

The ones who chose to stay were mostly the older people, with closest family in other States or just damn stubborn (surprising amount of the latter). The rest were people worried about the older people. Not a small amount were confident that God would watch over them. He might have watched, but we did a lot of the leg work, checking on everyone we thought was in town, running water around, and putting up a staggering amount of temporary steps. A little shocking how many exterior staircases are poorly connected to houses. No fatalities or serious casualties though. Six foot hills of beach sand in the streets, took a while to get passable.

eta: main power lines stayed up or were restored remarkably quickly, but it did take a while to get transformers replaced down the mostly vacant residential areas
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Old 13th September 2018, 07:26 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
The real question is, what were the others who needed that help thinking when they decided to stay?
"Well, if it gets really bad we can just go over to the Marriott. They'll have to let us in!"
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Old 13th September 2018, 07:28 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
"Well, if it gets really bad we can just go over to the Marriott. They'll have to let us in!"
I think you are thinking of Starbucks
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Old 13th September 2018, 07:44 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I think you are thinking of Starbucks
Topical!
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Old 14th September 2018, 04:27 AM   #58
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Is it time yet to start talking about what a bunch of wussies all the people in its path are.

"Cat. 1!! Why I have worse storms in my bath tub!"

The danger of Florence is that it looks like it's going to track inland and it's been moving rather slowly. It's still massive and can dump a shed load of rain on areas not really geared to handle it.(I think NC spent most of their infrastructure money on building "more separater bathrooms".) The storm surge is also still vicious.

As to the Super Typhoon in Asia, it's tracked a tad northwards and while the infrastructure is horrid in the Philippines, the center of the storm is at least staying north of Manila; but expect a whole lot of flooding, mud slides, etc. Typhoons out of that area a very erratic. Right now it's tracking past HK and Macau (the windward edges of the storm may attack but the center should be well south and southwest of them).

We have a number of posters in the Carolinas. Are they able to get internet, though?
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Old 14th September 2018, 07:01 AM   #59
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With winds of 160 mph bearing down on the Philippines, that looks far more destructive than the 99mph storm in the Carolinas.

Damage will be severe and long-ranging, though, for both. Not underplaying it.
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Old 14th September 2018, 07:11 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Is it time yet to start talking about what a bunch of wussies all the people in its path are.

"Cat. 1!! Why I have worse storms in my bath tub!"
Yeah the Saffir-Simpson is useful but it's not the whole story since it only measures wind speed which sure absolutely is a factor and a CAT 5 will wreck your day in a way a CAT 1 won't if all other factors are equal.

But the speed the storm is moving and, most of all, the amount of rain are huge factors as well.
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Old 14th September 2018, 07:57 AM   #61
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Cat 1? That's fake news. Trump says it's the worst hurricane in history, and will shortly be saying he organized the best response in history, only second to Maria.
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Old 14th September 2018, 08:29 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Cat 1? That's fake news. Trump says it's the worst hurricane in history, and will shortly be saying he organized the best response in history, only second to Maria.
Scary thought: in order to look good for the Midterms, Trump might tell FEMA to throw all it got into cleaning up /fixing after Florence, leaving the agency stocks too low for all the other hurricanes lined up to hit the US.

The failure in Puerto Rico was due to a large degree to the fact that Maria was the last hurricane that year.
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Old 14th September 2018, 08:37 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Scary thought: in order to look good for the Midterms, Trump might tell FEMA to throw all it got into cleaning up /fixing after Florence, leaving the agency stocks too low for all the other hurricanes lined up to hit the US.

The failure in Puerto Rico was due to a large degree to the fact that Maria was the last hurricane that year. the President didn't give a **** about PRs.
FTFY
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Old 14th September 2018, 09:09 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
FTFY
guess I stand corrected.
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Old 14th September 2018, 12:52 PM   #65
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3 deaths (2 directly, a mother and infant killed when a tree fell on their house and one indirect, a woman who died of a "cardiac event" when first responders were unable to reach her.) have been reported.
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Old 14th September 2018, 12:59 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
With winds of 160 mph bearing down on the Philippines, that looks far more destructive than the 99mph storm in the Carolinas.

Damage will be severe and long-ranging, though, for both. Not underplaying it.
Fact of life: A fistfight on Main Street will probably generate more local interest then a war in a obscure part of Africa or Asia. Human Nature, I guess.
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Old 14th September 2018, 03:47 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
With winds of 160 mph bearing down on the Philippines, that looks far more destructive than the 99mph storm in the Carolinas.

Damage will be severe and long-ranging, though, for both. Not underplaying it.
More people die from rain/flooding than winds during Hurricanes.

Given the Fukushima type nuclear reactors, pig farm cesspools and ore processing dump sites in the path of the "Tremendously Wet" Hurricane, this could get real nasty!


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Old 14th September 2018, 06:05 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Floyd make a glancing blow, not a direct hit. Hurricanes tend to "bounce off" the coast that far North.

I sure wish more of the would bounce, and bounce farther. Floyd dumped plenty on NC as it ran alongside the coast.

Quote:

Other than his power the reason Hugo was such a beast was he decided he wanted to see what the inland. He wasn't degraded to a tropical storm until he was hundreds of miles inland.

It damn sure did. I was working a project in Winston-Salem when Hugo came through. 230 miles due north of where it made landfall, and 200 miles inland, due west from the nearest coastline.

We spent a couple of days clearing debris from the roads on the project (a retirement community with cottages and apartments) just so we could start fixing the damage to the buildings.
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Old 14th September 2018, 06:09 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Does it depend on the definition of "English"?

I suspect that many of the traditional aspects of English are better preserved in places like NC than they are in England.

For example, we still call it "soccer".

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Old 14th September 2018, 06:22 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The real danger from Florence is the massive rains which are going cause horrendous flooding on the Carolina rivers.....some of it a long way inland. That the tidewater areas of the Carolinas are flat are goint to make things worse.
Yes, the winds can do terrible damage, but most of the experts I am watching are saying the massive rains is where the storm's most dangerous punch is.

Yes, inland flooding is the biggest killer.


Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Generally, storm surge is considered the most dangerous thing that happens with a hurricane at a coastline. The winds and torrential rain are considered to be less dangerous.

IIRC, the majority of deaths from a hurricane come from drowning in seawater as the ocean invades the land (storm surge).

This used to be the common wisdom. We have since learned better.
Quote:
In a new study that surprised weather specialists, it was discovered that between 1970 and 1999, inland flooding has claimed far more lives than storm surge, strong winds or tornadoes in the continental United States.

Still, in many coastal communities, storm surge, the wall of water that smashes to shore in advance of a hurricane, remains the primary threat, said Ed Rappaport, chief of the National Hurricane Center's technical support branch.

"Everyone associated with providing early storm warning believes that storm surge is not only a continuing threat, it is likely to be the cause of the next disaster, taking hundreds, potentially thousands of lives along the U.S. coast," said Rappaport, who conducted the study.

But even coastal communities must be wary of inland flooding, hurricane officials say.

Of the 600 people who died in hurricanes, tropical storms and tropical depressions during the hurricane center study's 30-year time frame, 354, or 59 percent drowned or were killed from some other trauma as a result of inland flooding.

That number doesn't include people electrocuted by hidden power lines; in those cases flooding was considered an indirect cause of death.

"This is something very different over what we believed in the past," Rappaport said.

Before the study, he said hurricane experts believed as many as 90 percent of storm victims died in storm surge. But surge claimed only six lives in the past 30 years, or 1 percent of the total victims. Wind-related incidents claimed 72 lives, or 12 percent, of the victims.

Inland flooding, which is the result of torrential rains, can wash out roads, create water-filled craters, turn small streams into raging rivers and trigger mudslides.

...

In the past three decades, at least 150 people have died in motor vehicles in rising waters, according to the hurricane center's study.

"Water comes up so fast and converges with rivers and streams," Rappaport said. "Motorists cannot tell the depth of the water over a road."

Another scary finding: 78 percent of children killed in tropical storms in the past three decades were victims of inland flooding. They played in water, only to fall into an unseen hole or wash away in a fast-flowing river.

And the inland flooding isn't over when the storm passes by. For example when we got hit by Matthew (which was exactly two years ago come a week from next Friday), there were rivers here which still hadn't crested from the flooding two weeks afterward. Hugo and Fran were much the same. To name a few.

And who do you suppose was on the downstream end of all that post-storm inland flooding.

All those people at the coast. They got to watch it go by heading west, and then see it come back downstream later on.

Hurricanes are very equal opportunity.
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Old 14th September 2018, 07:10 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I sure wish more of the would bounce, and bounce farther. Floyd dumped plenty on NC as it ran alongside the coast.




It damn sure did. I was working a project in Winston-Salem when Hugo came through. 230 miles due north of where it made landfall, and 200 miles inland, due west from the nearest coastline.

We spent a couple of days clearing debris from the roads on the project (a retirement community with cottages and apartments) just so we could start fixing the damage to the buildings.
Damn, I remember Hugo. Flattened some condos we had just framed, literally went from three stories to a five foot high and hundred foot long pile of scrapwood overnight. We were about 20 miles off the beach in Jersey.
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Old 14th September 2018, 07:15 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Yes, inland flooding is the biggest killer.





This used to be the common wisdom. We have since learned better.

And the inland flooding isn't over when the storm passes by. For example when we got hit by Matthew (which was exactly two years ago come a week from next Friday), there were rivers here which still hadn't crested from the flooding two weeks afterward. Hugo and Fran were much the same. To name a few.

And who do you suppose was on the downstream end of all that post-storm inland flooding.

All those people at the coast. They got to watch it go by heading west, and then see it come back downstream later on.

Hurricanes are very equal opportunity.
Yep. Sandy hurt the mainlanders as bad or worse than the islanders. On the beach its a ton of water, but inland the threats are more varied.

Do I recall correctly that you are in the Carolinas? You in a secure place?
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Old 14th September 2018, 07:40 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yep. Sandy hurt the mainlanders as bad or worse than the islanders. On the beach its a ton of water, but inland the threats are more varied.

Do I recall correctly that you are in the Carolinas? You in a secure place?

We're in Durham. We have been very lucky (so far). We went from being in the cross hairs on Monday to dodging the bullet on Thursday. Right now we're getting a little bit of occasional rain from the farthest out bands, and it's breezy. Forecast is for 4 to 6 inches of rain through the whole event and tropical storm strength gusts for a few hours.

That's a lot better than what they were calling for a few days ago. Then they were talking about a Fran type event, only much worse.

Fran clobbered Durham.

Mrs. qg is bedridden and on oxygen 24/7. She has been in a state of near panic for the past week almost. She's also a TV addict, and the hysteria style reporting from most of the news outlets hasn't helped a bit.

She's still not a happy camper, but things are looking pretty much okay for here.
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Old 15th September 2018, 12:27 AM   #74
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Mangkhut took its sweet time traversing the Philippines. There are no immediate reports of death and destruction but a lot of coms are out in the area and The Philippines are notoriously slow. The winds lowered to a Cat. 4 but when it made landfall winds were still as much as 70 mph worse than the Carolinas got.

The media is playing it up as "heading for Hong Kong" but the track looks like it will carry well south of a direct hit It could pick up strength as it's really a plodder (took about 12 hours for the storm center to cross over the Philippines), but it's currently a Cat. 3. Still, HK is going to be on the windward side and in any city with a less solid infrastructure, there could well be problems. I doubt they'll see much of anything radical, though.
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Old 15th September 2018, 06:51 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am not quite buying the "Many stay because they cannot afford to evacuate" thesis.
There are shelters, and I am pretty sure the involved local governments could arrange to use public transportation to get them out of the danger zone.
So assuming they can get in contact with the right people, including their friends and family, assuming their local government is quick to action, assuming they have no nessecary assets to protect ( dialysis equipment, things like this) and assuming they are able enough to traverse the storm in the first place, yes leaving is the best option.

Seems like you cut the sub sections really thin to find some people to **** on. Why do you have to be so ******* judgemental? These are all people going through some horrible ****.
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Old 15th September 2018, 07:07 AM   #76
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There will be some who can't leave whether they like it or not:

Quote:
On Friday morning, a source inside a South Carolina maximum-security prison who asked me to call him Albert said that the storm had not yet reached him. “No winds that I can see,” he said. “Not even rain.” For the past several days, Albert has barely left his cell. “We’re all locked down until after the storm,” he wrote in a text message, sent from a contraband cell phone. Correctional officers are refusing to let prisoners store extra water, he said. “Not allowed bottles or buckets,” he wrote. “They call it contraband.” He said the building seemed secure but warned that if heavy rains fell, they could be dangerous for men on the lowest level. “I can remember one flood to where the water came knee high,” he wrote. “Those guys are going to drown if it rains enough.”
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...-for-the-worst
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Old 15th September 2018, 12:10 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
There will be some who can't leave whether they like it or not:



https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...-for-the-worst

That's SC. NC evacuated prisons in danger zones.

Every state handles things differently.
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Old 15th September 2018, 12:26 PM   #78
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Relatedly, I saw a story about prisons being unaccounted for from Katrina and it looks like Snopes can't entirely rule it out.
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Old 15th September 2018, 05:02 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Cat 1? That's fake news. Trump says it's the worst hurricane in history, and will shortly be saying he organized the best response in history, only second to Maria.
Speaking of fake news:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...218461770.html
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Old 16th September 2018, 06:13 AM   #80
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Looting in Wilmington, North Carolina.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXjuwRRIbD8
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