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Old 24th April 2018, 12:55 PM   #161
dann
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What is the average IQ of a rocket scientist? (Yahoo answers)

But seriously: IQ tests don't really test a thing called intelligence. However, they require the use of different skill sets. Some of the questions require mathematical skills, others verbal skills. There are more categories than those two, but for the purpose of this explanation, suffice it to say that it is possible to find somebody who excels in math but sucks at language, and the other way round as well, of course. But since IQ tests focus on skills that are trained if you do your school work diligently, people who have high scores in one area tend to have high scores in most of the others as well.

However, if your idea is that Madsen might be highly gifted in the fields of mathematics, physics and chemistry, but doesn’t really have any verbal skills, which might lower his IQ in spite of genius-level maths, then, yes, it’s theoretically possible, but the guy had a blog, so I don’t think he’s dyslectic or otherwise verbally disadvantaged.

The lack of empathy appears to be his main defect, but IQ tests don’t care much for ‘emotional intelligence’ so this deficiency probably won't affect his IQ score, but probably gives him a high score on the Hare Checklist!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th April 2018, 01:16 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
What is the average IQ of a rocket scientist? (Yahoo answers)

But seriously: IQ tests don't really test a thing called intelligence. However, they require the use of different skill sets. Some of the questions require mathematical skills, others verbal skills. There are more categories than those two, but for the purpose of this explanation, suffice it to say that it is possible to find somebody who excels in math but sucks at language, and the other way round as well, of course. But since IQ tests focus on skills that are trained if you do your school work diligently, people who have high scores in one area tend to have high scores in most of the others as well.

However, if your idea is that Madsen might be highly gifted in the fields of mathematics, physics and chemistry, but doesn’t really have any verbal skills, which might lower his IQ in spite of genius-level maths, then, yes, it’s theoretically possible, but the guy had a blog, so I don’t think he’s dyslectic or otherwise verbally disadvantaged.

The lack of empathy appears to be his main defect, but IQ tests don’t care much for ‘emotional intelligence’ so this deficiency probably won't affect his IQ score, but probably gives him a high score on the Hare Checklist!
Or it could be he justs sucks at making tests.
Don't know, could be anything.

By the way.
What is the expected time for the verdict today?
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Old 25th April 2018, 01:29 AM   #163
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The verdict is today at 1 p.m., i.e. 2,5 hours from now.

Madsen's lawyer thinks that he should be sentenced to only six months in jail for having dismembered the body. She (says that she) doesn't think that the prosecution has lifted the burden of evidence for murder. She says that the evidence presented is only circumstantial:

Quote:
- Anklageren har ikke haft ét håndfast bevis at fremlægge i retten, siger Betina Hald Engmark.
Retskorrespondent: Dommen i ubådssagen falder på et minut

"- The prosecutor didn't present one single piece of hard evidence in court, says Betina Hald Engmark."
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 25th April 2018 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 25th April 2018, 01:32 AM   #164
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Thank you.

That's only a few hours from now. We'll wait.
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Old 25th April 2018, 01:52 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
Or it could be he justs sucks at making tests.
Don't know, could be anything.

That may be the case. But remember that he never finished his education:

Quote:
Upon his 81-year-old father's death three years later, he began studying engineering but quit once he thought he knew enough to build submarines and rockets.
Peter Madsen: What is known about the Danish inventor? (AFP/The Local, Aug. 24, 2017)

It seems like a very ... convenient excuse for never graduating. Not that it is entirely impossible, but you would expect a fully qualified engineer to have an IQ above 111. Since he seems to have been an excellent manipulator, I wouldn't put it past him to have bluffed his acquaintances into doing the calculations for him and presenting himself as the genius who came up with all of it on his own.
But this is conjecture based only on my impression of the kind of guy he appears to be, not on the science that went into the different projects that he was involved with.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th April 2018, 02:07 AM   #166
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PS
According to this Quora answer, you would expect the IQ of an engineer to be in the 120-130 range: What is the average IQ of engineers?
But on the other hand, it is also claimed that engineers can hold IQ among 80 and 130.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th April 2018, 03:34 AM   #167
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Live (Ekstra Bladet, Apr. 25, 2018)
Live (TV2, Apr. 25, 2018)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th April 2018, 03:59 AM   #168
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Guilty of murder and mutilation of a corpse. Sentenced to life in prison (in reality around 16 years).

Details to follow. Will almost certainly be appealed to High Court.

Edit: All three judges agreed on the guilty verdict. The court noted that Peter Madsen had invited three different women to sail in the submarine, as well as Peter Madsen's interest in murder, mutilation and impaling.

Edit 2: The court also noted that his changing testimony had rendered his explanations untrustworthy, especially with regards to some of the items he had brought into the submarine that wouldn't normally be required there (such as a saw, nylon strips, etc.).

Last edited by KDLarsen; 25th April 2018 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 25th April 2018, 04:08 AM   #169
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43894495

BBC Report on the verdict
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Old 25th April 2018, 04:10 AM   #170
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The verdict was unanimous.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th April 2018, 04:17 AM   #171
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The Guardian
CNN
Huffington
Time
Newsweek
TheLocal.dk (Danish News in English)
CPH Post.dk (Danish News in English)
Der Spiegel (German)
Focus (German)
Frankfurter Rundschau (German)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 25th April 2018 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 25th April 2018, 04:17 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
The verdict was unanimous.
And a good one, in my opinion.
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Old 25th April 2018, 04:19 AM   #173
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Peter Madsen is appealing the verdict to High Court.
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Old 25th April 2018, 04:40 AM   #174
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Life in prison in Denmark:

* Harshest punishment - in principle imprisonment for the rest of life.
* In average a life sentence is 16-17 years.
* Probation is possible after 12 years.
* Probation can be denied if it is assessed that the risk of new crime is present.
* It must be assessed how dangerous the person is before probation is considered.
* At present two prisoners have served more than 30 years.
* At present 25 people is serving life in prison in Denmark.
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Old 25th April 2018, 05:39 AM   #175
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"Prison for life is the most severe punishment in the country and means that it will not be possible to release Madsen until after 12 years in jail.

However, the overwhelming majority of prisoners serving a life sentence spend much more time than that behind bars, and some of the convicted are never released."


Quote:
Fængsel på livstid er landets strengeste straf og betyder, at Madsen allertidligst vil kunne blive løsladt efter 12 års fængsel.

Langt de fleste afsonere af en livstidsdom tilbringer dog endnu længere tid bag tremmer, og enkelte dømte slipper aldrig ud.
Peter Madsen får livstid for drabet på Kim Wall (Information)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th April 2018, 07:32 AM   #176
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Unless the High Court reduces the sentence, I think Peter Madsen could easily spend more than 30 years in jail. Compare the case of Seth Sethsen, who has so far spent 32 years in jail, after he robbed and killed a taxi driver in the mid-80's.
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Old 25th April 2018, 07:59 AM   #177
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He was sentenced today at the Copenhagen County Court, and I seriously doubt that the High Court (Østre Landsret) will reduce his sentence. I don’t see why it would. And I don’t know if he will be able to appeal to the Supreme Court if the sentence in Østre Landsret isn’t the one he hopes for, but my guess is that he probably won’t.
I think he'll die in jail, of old age or maybe much sooner, by his own hand.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th April 2018, 12:22 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
He was sentenced today at the Copenhagen County Court, and I seriously doubt that the High Court (Østre Landsret) will reduce his sentence. I don’t see why it would. And I don’t know if he will be able to appeal to the Supreme Court if the sentence in Østre Landsret isn’t the one he hopes for, but my guess is that he probably won’t.
I think he'll die in jail, of old age or maybe much sooner, by his own hand.
In Denmark, a case can normally only be appealed one level up. In cases of principal importance it is sometimes allowed to have them tried at he Supreme Court, but this would not seem to apply in this case (in my uneducated opinion); While the case in unique because of the circumstances, in principle it is "just" another sexual premeditated murder case.

Hans
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Old 25th April 2018, 01:44 PM   #179
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People must rush to update Wiki the way forums get updated as some as things happen. It already has the verdict and sentence.
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Old 25th April 2018, 03:25 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
And I don’t know if he will be able to appeal to the Supreme Court if the sentence in Østre Landsret isn’t the one he hopes for, but my guess is that he probably won’t.
The Supreme Court usually only handles cases of a principal nature. They might take a look at the length of the sentence but they don't handle the question of guilt.
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Old 27th April 2018, 05:40 AM   #181
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Three more:
New York Times
Sky News
Frankfurter Allgemeine (in German)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 27th April 2018 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 1st May 2018, 07:37 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
He was sentenced today at the Copenhagen County Court, and I seriously doubt that the High Court (Østre Landsret) will reduce his sentence. I don’t see why it would. And I don’t know if he will be able to appeal to the Supreme Court if the sentence in Østre Landsret isn’t the one he hopes for, but my guess is that he probably won’t.
I think he'll die in jail, of old age or maybe much sooner, by his own hand.
My money says not by his own hand. He is far too narcissistic.
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Old 2nd May 2018, 07:28 AM   #183
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Narcissists may be more prone to threatening to commit suicide than to actually doing it, but there are some who do, in particular the killing kind: people who kill their families before turning the gun on themselves, and school shooters and other mass murderers.
If he can entertain himself by establishing a fan club of admiring women who think that he is a misunderstood victim in need of their love and understanding, then he may choose to stay alive. That's the kind of life that Peter Lundin seems to have.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 2nd May 2018 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 7th May 2018, 07:45 AM   #184
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The public prosecutor's office has confirmed that Peter Madsen's appeal is only for the sentence of life in prison and not the question of guilt.
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Old 7th May 2018, 08:36 AM   #185
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But he still denies having killed Kim Wall:
Forsvarer: Peter Madsen nægter stadig drag (dr.dk, May 7, 2018)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 7th May 2018, 01:32 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
But he still denies having killed Kim Wall:
Forsvarer: Peter Madsen nægter stadig drag (dr.dk, May 7, 2018)
I think that's a technicality. He has not confessed, but he has accepted the verdict. I assume he feels he remains mysterious that way.

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Old 15th May 2018, 11:03 PM   #187
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The appeal case will be in September: Landsret skal vurdere dom over Peter Madsen (dr.dk, May 15, 2018)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 16th May 2018, 03:39 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
The appeal case will be in September: Landsret skal vurdere dom over Peter Madsen (dr.dk, May 15, 2018)
Thanks for keeping us updated, dann.
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Old 23rd May 2018, 04:55 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Thanks for keeping us updated, dann.
Yes, thank you dann from me too - it's difficult following cases where the news is primarily reported in another language.

I'm also following a case that occurred in France and it's equally difficult to translate the news, that of the murder of 9-year-old Maëlys de Araujo, which has taken quite a turn. The suspect, Nordahl Lelandais finally confessed after six months, though he claimed he killed her "accidentally." In the past week he also confessed to murdering Arthur Noyer and is currently being looked at in numerous other disappearances.

If any French speakers are around I'd love to see a thread, especially if Lelandais turns out to be a serial killer. My high school French ain't cutting it.
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Old 12th September 2018, 11:23 AM   #190
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This month it will be decided how many years Peter Madsen will spend in jail. The guilty verdict remains, but he has appealed the life sentence, which, on average, means 16-17 years but would probably be longer in his case. He risks being sentenced to forvaring (custody), which means that a person can be kept behind bars for as long as he is considered to be dangerous.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/tema/ubaadssagen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder...Wall#Aftermath
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th September 2018, 02:04 AM   #191
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The high court were meant to deliver their verdict today, but due to one of the lay judges having been taken very ill, in the middle of the court session no less, this has been postponed until further notice. Fortunately he has regained consciousness and is being treated in hospital.

It hasn't been the best of weeks for lay judges, as just two days ago another of the three lay judges was forced to withdraw from the case, as he had been hired by a state agency and thus as a civil servant would no longer be permitted to sit as a lay judge (in Danish courts, civil servants are barred from sitting as lay judges, as are members of the clergy, since both are employed by the state and would then have a conflict of interest).

There is some speculation as to whether this will now require a retrial, if the lay judge is ill for a lengthy period of time, as there is now only a single lay judge left. On top of that, there is also the issue of finding space in the calendar, as both the High Court and the attourneys involved are all fairly busy.
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Old 14th September 2018, 06:06 AM   #192
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Pragmatically, it doesn't seem to be especially urgent to decide how many years he serves, as it's inevitably going to be lots.
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Old 14th September 2018, 06:07 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
The high court were meant to deliver their verdict today, but due to one of the lay judges having been taken very ill, in the middle of the court session no less, this has been postponed until further notice.
Another victim of wily Peter Madsen!
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Old 14th September 2018, 06:29 AM   #194
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A female prison guard was recently made redundant after she 'got too close' to him: Medie: Fængselsansat fritstillet - for tæt forhold til Peter Madsen (B.T., Aug. 20, 2018)
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th September 2018, 06:52 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
A female prison guard was recently made redundant after she 'got too close' to him: Medie: Fængselsansat fritstillet - for tæt forhold til Peter Madsen (B.T., Aug. 20, 2018)
"Made redundant" connotes being dismissed because one's job is no longer necessary due to changes in budget, market, or other business factors. It probably isn't the right term to use in English if she was actually dismissed because she made professional mistakes while doing her job.
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Old 14th September 2018, 09:26 AM   #196
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It wasn't a good translation, fritstillet --> made redundant, but it's more complicated than that. The Danish word fritstillet means that your employer fired/sacked you by, for instance, from the 1st of next month + he's also told you to leave immediately and stay away.
I don't know if there's a word for that in English - or maybe more words. It might depend on labour laws in the individual English-speaking country.
My dictionary suggests disemployed, but that also doesn't seem to be the proper translation.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 14th September 2018 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 14th September 2018, 10:21 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It wasn't a good translation, fritstillet --> made redundant, but it's more complicated than that. The Danish word fritstillet means that your employer fired/sacked you by, for instance, from the 1st of next month + he's also told you to leave immediately and stay away.
I don't know if there's a word for that in English - or maybe more words. It might depend on labour laws in the individual English-speaking country.
My dictionary suggests disemployed, but that also doesn't seem to be the proper translation.
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. And thanks also for taking the time to update this thread, and for your translation work in general.

If a US employer wished to formally indicate removing an employee for serious misconduct, they might use a phrase like "their employment is terminated effective immediately". The word "terminated" is a very forceful and emphatic word, stronger than "let go" or "fired". And "effective immediately" indicates that no grace interval or "working through the end of the pay period" is provided. In general, the shorter "terminated" can stand in for all those implications and connotations, and distinguishes the situation from being "made redundant" (in the UK) or being "laid off" (in the US).

Anyway, thanks again for your contributions to this thread. They are much appreciated. I hope you will continue!
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Old 14th September 2018, 11:07 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
A female prison guard was recently made redundant after she 'got too close' to him: Medie: Fængselsansat fritstillet - for tæt forhold til Peter Madsen (B.T., Aug. 20, 2018)
She was mentioned as one of three 'relatives' of Peter Madsen present at the trial a couple of days ago. I usually don't bother with the tabloids if I can avoid it, so I've missed that story previously.
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Old 15th September 2018, 02:42 AM   #199
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Well, at least she's been warned ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th September 2018, 02:47 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
terminated effective immediately

Great, thanks! Yes, of course. I've heard the term before, but it didn't occur to me when I needed it in this case. The best words never do!

Quote:
I hope you will continue!

Not for long, I think. When he receives his final sentence, I'm sure that either KDLarsen or I will write about it here, but apart from that, I think that we should forget about him. The rest of the world outside of Scandinavia seems to have done so already.
The parents of Kim Wall say that they want the world to remember their daughter rather than the ******* who killed her.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 15th September 2018 at 02:49 AM.
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