Mueller Investigation pt4

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WilliamSeger said:
One reason that it's pretty likely that Mueller will come up with evidence that Trump was personally involved in the Russian collusion is that Trump is so damned worried that he will. And of course, all of his sycophants and turd polishers are, too -- as well they should be.
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If you were up against the Deep State and the Clinton-Obama-Soros-Bezos Axis bent on your destruction you'd be worried too. I know I would.
 
Belz... said:
Who cares what they thought now? Why is this such an obsession of yours?
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Because its the only straw he has left to clutch on to.

This is what "whataboutism" and misdirection is all about, and its why we are seeing it a lot of it lately from Trump apologists. It is very, very likely (almost certain in fact) that the Special Counsel has got the malingering Stumpy McBone Spurs and his crime family dead to rights on a raft of criminal activities.

The Trumpanzees are becoming desperate. Its pretty obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense that Trump is a criminal. All they have left is to try to cast suspicion on the process.
 
smartcooky said:
Because its the only straw he has left to clutch on to.

This is what "whataboutism" and misdirection is all about, and its why we are seeing it a lot of it lately from Trump apologists. It is very, very likely (almost certain in fact) that the Special Counsel has got the malingering Stumpy McBone Spurs and his crime family dead to rights on a raft of criminal activities.

The Trumpanzees are becoming desperate. Its pretty obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense that Trump is a criminal. All they have left is to try to cast suspicion on the process.
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If all they were holding to was an ideological political position, the solution would be simple - cut the bum loose for another Republican leader. But it is a cult and they are welded on to Trump.
 
GIULIANI, today: Trump paid Stormy Daniels because he "was very concerned about how this was going to affect his marriage"

GIULIANI, 5/3/18: "Imagine if that came out of October 15, 2016, in the middle of the last debate with Clinton…Cohen made it go away. He did his job"
 
Captain_Swoop said:
GIULIANI, today: Trump paid Stormy Daniels because he "was very concerned about how this was going to affect his marriage"

GIULIANI, 5/3/18: "Imagine if that came out of October 15, 2016, in the middle of the last debate with Clinton…Cohen made it go away. He did his job"
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Giuliani is one of Trump's lawyers, correct? Not just another washed-up politician and dial-a-quote pundit?

I...actually, I have nothing further to say - except that in case I'm ever in legal trouble in the US, please tell me that your average public defender is much, much more savvy than this putz.
 
Giuliani himself is shady as ****. Him working for Trump is a way for him to get invited to talk for big $$$. He is running around the globe, getting paid by despots to peddle his "tough-on-crime" brand.
Trump is definitely getting the short end of the deal when it comes to Giuliani.
 
smartcooky said:
Because its the only straw he has left to clutch on to.

This is what "whataboutism" and misdirection is all about, and its why we are seeing it a lot of it lately from Trump apologists. It is very, very likely (almost certain in fact) that the Special Counsel has got the malingering Stumpy McBone Spurs and his crime family dead to rights on a raft of criminal activities.

The Trumpanzees are becoming desperate. Its pretty obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense that Trump is a criminal. All they have left is to try to cast suspicion on the process.
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You'd think they'd just ditch him and claim that they suspected all along, instead. It'd be far less energy-consuming.
 
Belz... said:
You'd think they'd just ditch him and claim that they suspected all along, instead. It'd be far less energy-consuming.
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That strategy would work, if they weren't part of the conspiracy. I suspect many Republicans were paid or helped by Russia. Trumpanzees, the fans of Trump, don't care if Russia helped or if Trump broke the law because they know Trump makes "libtards" upset.
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
Giuliani himself is shady as ****. Him working for Trump is a way for him to get invited to talk for big $$$. He is running around the globe, getting paid by despots to peddle his "tough-on-crime" brand.
Trump is definitely getting the short end of the deal when it comes to Giuliani.
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Ahh, yes, should have remembered that there's always an angle with these characters.
 
Sideroxylon said:
The Iraq War was a mistake. Not surprised at such desparate attempts to derail the thread, which is about the Muller investigation.
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Trump has been unraveling since the election at a stunning pace. Sometimes it seems like Trump cultists are determined to unravel along with him. In fairness, it's not easy to defend Dear Leader.

I mean really, what do you call a pretzel that contorts itself? A pretzeract?
 
[HomerSimpsonvoice] Mmmmm, four dimensional pretzel....huulllgghghghg...[/HomerSimpsonvoice]


ETA:
The modern technical phrase is "Self Assembly"



Though the contortions have to counter Trumps unraveling so I guess 'counter contortions' would be an appropriate phrase.

Heck, if these jamokes would just keep their mouths shut their adherents wouldn't have to be doing all that interpretive dancing and investigators would have less, if any, admissions of intentions.
 
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Stacyhs said:
Took me a minute to get the reference!:p
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Same. I maintain that to understand Trump, one must understand five fictional characters. I hesitate to include the last two because they have endearing qualities that aren't applicable.

1. Biff, Back to the Future, actually based on Trump

2. The above-referenced kid from the Twilight Zone episode (send 'em to the cornfield, lock 'em up, whatever). Apparently Fred and the Mrs treated Prince Donny similarly.

3. Charlie the Tuna. Nobody is buying your act Charlie! Starkist doesn't want tunas with good taste. They want tunas that taste good.

4. Chauncey Gardner, Being There, for obvious reasons.

5. Tommy Boy
 
Sideroxylon said:
I am literally laughing out loud here.
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As should we all!!!!!!! (note as long as trumpfies trump I shall never run out of a supply of exclamation pints!!!!!!!!!)!!!!!


Also for the trumpies, it should be noted that a trump is another name for a fart. And Trumpf is a deadly one!!!!! Actually a solid one if you catch my drift.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Trumpanzees, the fans of Trump, don't care if Russia helped or if Trump broke the law because they know Trump makes "libtards" upset.
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Just look at the people proudly displaying shirts or signs that say things like "I'd rather be Russian than a Democrat."
But I'm sure those are Democrat plants trying to make Trump's supporters look bad.
 
Armitage72 said:
Just look at the people proudly displaying shirts or signs that say things like "I'd rather be Russian than a Democrat."
But I'm sure those are Democrat plants trying to make Trump's supporters look bad.
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I wonder if they know this?

Healthcare in Russia is provided by the state through the Federal Compulsory Medical Insurance Fund, and regulated through the Ministry of Health. .
 
The Big Dog said:
Curious. There are a number of posts describing mueller’s so called integrity.

A critical thinker then rebuts the claims.

The critical thinker is then attacked.

Curious.
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You didn't rebut a God damn thing. And calling yourself a critical thinker is a stretch.
 
Check it out, y'all I can do it too: "Rule of So." I'm a critical thinker now!

We're nearly 40 pages into a thread to discuss an investigation that is not yet completed. Why so much virtual ink on this particular topic?

Well, someone acting completely like a truly-innocent-person is using the highest bully pulpit on Earth to daily broadcast disparaging misinformation about the man in charge of the investigation. Why? Well, this person who I'll call Individual 1, is upset that the investigation has uncovered some rather shady dealings among multiple people within Individual 1's immediate and extended sphere of business associates. Rather than address the charges on their own merit, Individual 1 has declared the entire investigation a hatchet job sponsored by his enemies among the political elite. Those enemies have managed to fully corrupt a lifelong Republican who's led an exemplary career in public service and is now a secret leftist Democrat hell-bent on destroying the otherwise spotless reputation of Individual 1 and his brilliant, gorgeous daughter who's got a body that doesn't quit, silky-smooth skin that glows when touched, a m--- Oh, sorry, got distracted for a minute.

Anyway, yeah. Mueller is a partisan hack and Individual 1 wants him to go away so we can back to all the #winning, distraction-free. There's no time to wait for this highly successful investigation to conclude because we're taking it in the shorts from the Chinese, the Russians want more concessions from us, and there are Guatemalan toddlers on the border with grenade launchers that can fire missiles all the way to Des Moines!
 
Trump is playing poker with the budget

Delete. Wrong thread.
 
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Oh for Pete's sake, the Flynn court does not show motions for leave to file under seal on their court docket.

Poor form! Very poor form!
 
thaiboxerken said:
That strategy would work, if they weren't part of the conspiracy. I suspect many Republicans were paid or helped by Russia. Trumpanzees, the fans of Trump, don't care if Russia helped or if Trump broke the law because they know Trump makes "libtards" upset.
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Well... to poke at this a little, there's this little organization called the NRA that might play into that side of things. And then there's been some suggestions that Russian influence and hacking campaigns were likely successful at finding blackmail material on the GOP well beyond expectations, using the NRA and the RNC as a starting point.
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
GIULIANI, today: Trump paid Stormy Daniels because he "was very concerned about how this was going to affect his marriage"

GIULIANI, 5/3/18: "Imagine if that came out of October 15, 2016, in the middle of the last debate with Clinton…Cohen made it go away. He did his job"
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That's because it did BOTH; provided benefit to Trump's personal/private/public (For most of his life he has had a presence in the public sphere), as well as influenced the campaign.

For that reason the Stormy transaction was irrespective to the campaign effort and thus not regulated as campaign finance according to law.
 
A business partner of Flynn's has been charged with conspiracy and acting as an agent of the Turkish government

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1074696341627068417

DOJ's press release on the charges: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-men-charged-conspiracy-and-acting-agents-foreign-government …

I strikes me as seriously weird, even w Flynn's cooperation, to throw so many counts at the business partners of the former National Security Advisor and leave him as an unindicted co-conspirator facing no jail time.
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https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1074703851335254017

Yeah, this is extremely strong evidence for the proposition that Flynn got a great deal via what he was charged with.

Hooray vast unchecked prosecutorial discretion!
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So there we go - "extremely strong evidence" that Mueller has chosen not to prosecute Flynn for everything he could prosecute him for as part of a deal for the "substantial assistance" Flynn has provided Mueller.
 
In reference to the earlier conversation about whether Flynn actually lied about something material, according to the law:

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1074696017063202816

Here's @AlanDersh making an argument about how the law SHOULD be, but concealing it as an argument about what the law IS.

(I agree with tightening the materiality standard for Section 1001. I don't agree with going on TV and lying about it.)
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Article embedded in tweet.

https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1074738519606734850

Lying to the FBI is only a crime if the lie was “material”. If the FBI already knew the answer to the question— if they have tapes— and ask it only to elicit a lie, should that lie be deemed material?
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https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1074742341418668032

Professor, you know perfectly well that courts have repeatedly answered this question, even if we may think they got it wrong.

Why are you promoting ignorance about the law?
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https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1074742698677030912

Like many of Dershowitz's recent statements, this appears to be a deliberate effort to mislead the public.
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https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1074747560865267714

Shame on @renato_mariotti for deliberately distorting my point. I said that lying to the FBI is not a crime unless the lie is material. That is the law. Does Mariotti disagree? Or does he want to change the law and apply it ex post facto to Flynn?
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https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1074760508731994113

There is no question lying to the FBI is only a crime if the lie is material. There is also no question that federal courts have held that the type of lie told by Flynn is material. Your earlier tweet suggested otherwise, and unless you're incompetent, you knew it was misleading.
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So the question is whether you believe Dershowitz, who says that Flynn did not commit a crime, or Popehat & Mariotti, who say it was and that anybody who thinks otherwise is either ignorant, deliberately trying to mislead people, or incompetent about matters of law.
 
ServiceSoon said:
That's because it did BOTH; provided benefit to Trump's personal/private/public (For most of his life he has had a presence in the public sphere), as well as influenced the campaign.

For that reason the Stormy transaction was irrespective to the campaign effort and thus not regulated as campaign finance according to law.
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This is just pretzel logic!

Did the Trump campaign benefit from the payments?

If the answer to this question is "yes" then that is a campaign law violation, a criminal offence, regardless of whether there were other reasons for him making the payment. You can't claim that you didn't break the law because you had other reasons for doing what you did - e.g. if you break into someone's house to recover your own property, you still broke the law by breaking and entering, and you can still be prosecuted for that.
 
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The Big Dog said:
Oh for Pete's sake, the Flynn court does not show motions for leave to file under seal on their court docket.

Poor form! Very poor form!
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MINUTE ORDER as to MICHAEL T. FLYNN. On December 12, 2018, the Court ordered the government to produce "any 302s or memoranda relevant to the circumstances discussed on pages 7-9 of the defendant's sentencing memorandum." The government responded to the Court's Order under seal. Having reviewed the government's submissions, the Court finds that the January 24, 2017 FD-302, which was drafted immediately after Mr. Flynn's FBI interview, is relevant to Mr. Flynn's sentencing. The Court also finds that the government's proposed redactions to that document are appropriate. As such, and in view of the strong public presumption in favor of public access to judicial records, see, e.g., Nixon v. Warner Commc'ns, Inc., 435 U.S. 589, 597 (1978) ("It is clear that the courts of this country recognize a general right to inspect and copy public records and documents, including judicial records and documents."), the Court FORTHWITH ORDERS the government to file its proposed redacted version of the January 24, 2017 FD-302 on the public docket. Signed by Judge Emmet G. Sullivan on 12/17/2018. (lcegs3) (Entered: 12/17/2018)
 
I just want to know how General Flynn can transform himself from highly respected Military Officer to Giant Turd willing to sell out to the highest bidder? I'm glad that he is cooperating with Mueller. That certainly goes toward making some amends. But that doesn't change the things he did. He was being paid 15 million dollars if he could find a way to extradite a man who has lived in the United States to Turkey without evidence of committing a crime.
 
The Big Dog said:
MINUTE ORDER as to MICHAEL T. FLYNN. On December 12, 2018, the Court ordered the government to produce "any 302s or memoranda relevant to the circumstances discussed on pages 7-9 of the defendant's sentencing memorandum." The government responded to the Court's Order under seal. Having reviewed the government's submissions, the Court finds that the January 24, 2017 FD-302, which was drafted immediately after Mr. Flynn's FBI interview, is relevant to Mr. Flynn's sentencing. The Court also finds that the government's proposed redactions to that document are appropriate. As such, and in view of the strong public presumption in favor of public access to judicial records, see, e.g., Nixon v. Warner Commc'ns, Inc., 435 U.S. 589, 597 (1978) ("It is clear that the courts of this country recognize a general right to inspect and copy public records and documents, including judicial records and documents."), the Court FORTHWITH ORDERS the government to file its proposed redacted version of the January 24, 2017 FD-302 on the public docket. Signed by Judge Emmet G. Sullivan on 12/17/2018. (lcegs3) (Entered: 12/17/2018)
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Wait, I thought you said the judge was gonna come down hard on the prosecution for not providing what he asked for?
 
WilliamSeger said:
Wait, I thought you said the judge was gonna come down hard on the prosecution for not providing what he asked for?
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Beelzebuddy said:
The judge did, look, he said FORTHWITH. You don't get a with like that unless you forth it.
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So, did TBD even read what he posted? The judge basically said yes, that's what I was looking for and the redactions are appropriate, go ahead and formally release it.
 
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