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Tags neil degrasse tyson , rape accusations , sexual misconduct charges

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Old 3rd December 2018, 12:53 PM   #201
dann
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Over thirty years ago..

I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately.

Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here

It's not so much a question of faulty memory, I think, and being a woo obviously makes her unreliable if we are talking about cosmology, but we're not. When she ”accused him of telling students they could pass Astronomy 101 if they gave him a blow job,” you would expect others to come forward to back up her claim. Nobody has, apparently.
My guess, based on her own account, is that she made it all up – but not necessarily with ill intent. When I was in college, a student had a mental breakdown and accused a teaching assistant of having impregnated her. This may be a similar story.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:47 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Over thirty years ago..

I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately.

Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here
I don't know how other people should perceive them but I assume it's bullcrap until evidence is presented. I have been falsely accused of harassment before (and proved it was false), and I'm not even a rich and famous celebrity. It can happen to anyone and it may happen to someone else in this forum one day. I do not wish it on anyone.

In these days of "victimhood", fingerpointing and overly sensitive people in general, I am far from taking anyone at their word on this.

"#Metoo! I'm a victim too, I must be!" is about where I'm at with all this. Show evidence or shut the f up.

The medias reporting of anyone with a claim is, I think, detrimental to the overall #metoo thing and is where a lot of my attitude comes from, not my own personal experience. Troubling times.
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Old 5th December 2018, 04:46 PM   #203
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"Never **** crazy"
But they are always the best ****.
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Old 5th December 2018, 08:36 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by kedo1981 View Post
"Never **** crazy"
But they are always the best ****.
Not actually true. I've had more crazy partners than not, and they were all inferior to the love of a sane partner.

Actually, I take that back. I've had exactly two of each. But the sane ones win the bedroom bingo sweepstakes hands down.
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:16 AM   #205
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Make it four women:

Quote:
Now a fourth woman has told BuzzFeed News her experience of sexual harassment from Tyson. In January 2010, she recalled, she joined her then-boyfriend at a holiday party for employees of the American Museum of Natural History. Tyson, its most famous employee, drunkenly approached her, she said, making sexual jokes and propositioning her to join him alone in his office. In a 2014 email shared with BuzzFeed News, she described the incident to her own employer in order to shoot down a proposed collaboration with Tyson.
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Old 6th December 2018, 03:22 AM   #206
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Jesus wept, if I detailed every incidence in which a woman had made lewd suggestions to me it would take me until 2050 (and I'm uglier than a hog). It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that.
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:27 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
..you idiot woman, so suck on that.





Stellar defense of Tyson there
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:20 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Jesus wept, if I detailed every incidence in which a woman had made lewd suggestions to me it would take me until 2050 (and I'm uglier than a hog). It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that.
Yeah dat. Propositioned at a party? It's called "freedom of expression".

I guess some people think it is only reasonable to meet potential mates in Sunday school.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:25 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Make it four women:
That seems like a solid reason to decline working with Tyson, but doesn't rise to the level of sexual misconduct, in my opinion.
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Old 6th December 2018, 11:51 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that.
Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble.
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:02 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble.
And other women like the taste. How is a guy supposed to know unless he asks?
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Old 6th December 2018, 01:09 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Make it four women:

Now a fourth woman has told BuzzFeed News her experience of sexual harassment from Tyson. In January 2010, she recalled, she joined her then-boyfriend at a holiday party for employees of the American Museum of Natural History. Tyson, its most famous employee, drunkenly approached her, she said, making sexual jokes and propositioning her to join him alone in his office. In a 2014 email shared with BuzzFeed News, she described the incident to her own employer in order to shoot down a proposed collaboration with Tyson.

To be absolutely sure I understood it correctly, I looked up proposition, but I still don't see any real problem ... unless his jokes were really bad. He propositioned, she declined.
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Old 6th December 2018, 01:09 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble.
I think he merely suggested it.
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Old 6th December 2018, 01:17 PM   #214
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It just occurred to me that we have this move in salsa rueda Cubana:

Quote:
Festival el principe bueno y malo:
“On the 4th count, perform an Enchufala Y Dame, and slap the follower you are with gently on their buttocks while moving to the next follower. Followers can try avoid being “tagged.””
El principe bueno + el principe malo triple: http://www.salsalust.com/move.php?id=11
Principe Malo (Ruedawiki)

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I've never heard any complaints about this, and I haven't been able to find any on the internet.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:07 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That seems like a solid reason to decline working with Tyson, but doesn't rise to the level of sexual misconduct, in my opinion.
Well, these days the standard seems to be that any unwanted sexual attention is verboten, and if you ask "How am I to know it's unwanted until I try a few lines?" you're part of the problem.
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Old 18th December 2018, 08:55 AM   #216
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Neil Degrasse Tyson Sexual Misconduct Allegations

Amazingly, seems that no one in this forum is talking about this.

Four accusers so far. Out of all of them, the worst and most critical accusations is one of drugging and raping a woman.

This is a really disappointing one. Neil always struck me as a good person. If something as dark as this can be true, then who the hell can we trust?
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Old 18th December 2018, 08:58 AM   #217
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A few people are - http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ighlight=tyson
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Old 18th December 2018, 09:07 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Amazingly, seems that no one in this forum is talking about this.
For whatever reason, the discussion is happening in the skeptical movement "sexual misconduct allegations" thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ations&page=61

Quote:
Four accusers so far. Out of all of them, the worst and most critical accusations is one of drugging and raping a woman.

This is a really disappointing one. Neil always struck me as a good person. If something as dark as this can be true, then who the hell can we trust?
Don't despair just yet. People make horrible accusations all the time. Sometimes they're true, sometimes not.

Also, if these accusations are causing you to reconsider trusting anyone, perhaps you should take a closer look at your emotional attachment to media personas. If nothing else, the Cosby thing should have driven home the lesson that "always struck me as a good person" isn't really a rational basis for assigning trust to a public figure.
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Old 18th December 2018, 09:14 AM   #219
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For the record, it's a lot of horse **** until proven.
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Old 18th December 2018, 09:56 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
For whatever reason, the discussion is happening in the skeptical movement "sexual misconduct allegations" thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ations&page=61


Don't despair just yet. People make horrible accusations all the time. Sometimes they're true, sometimes not.

Also, if these accusations are causing you to reconsider trusting anyone, perhaps you should take a closer look at your emotional attachment to media personas. If nothing else, the Cosby thing should have driven home the lesson that "always struck me as a good person" isn't really a rational basis for assigning trust to a public figure.
I think Ron's voicing frustrusation, and a bit of anguish: how about the people he knows personally and thinks are good people?
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Old 18th December 2018, 10:54 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I think Ron's voicing frustrusation, and a bit of anguish: how about the people he knows personally and thinks are good people?
Hopefully Ron doesn't think that the impression he gets from the public persona of a celebrity figure says anything at all about the trustworthiness of people he actually knows personally.

"People are saying the I ******* Love Science poster boy has done some bad things. Now I don't even know who my best friend of 20 years really is anymore!"
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Old 18th December 2018, 12:31 PM   #222
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This is like the third thread I've seen on it here?
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Old 19th December 2018, 07:45 AM   #223
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Thanks for the merge. I hadn't seen the other threads. Either way, I was a bit amazed to see none of those threads in the first page, which means that the discussion was abandoned even though this case is barely starting to heat up as we speak.

So far we got four accusers. The more accusers, the less likely that they are lying. I still hold some hope that this could be at the very least a misconstruction of some sort.
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Old 19th December 2018, 08:53 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Thanks for the merge. I hadn't seen the other threads. Either way, I was a bit amazed to see none of those threads in the first page, which means that the discussion was abandoned even though this case is barely starting to heat up as we speak.

So far we got four accusers. The more accusers, the less likely that they are lying. I still hold some hope that this could be at the very least a misconstruction of some sort.
Or we are getting just copycats. There's enough time in between to doubt independence. And it goes both ways.(Like in some previous cases it prompted other real victims it can also prompt just more false accusations)
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Old 19th December 2018, 07:31 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Amazingly, seems that no one in this forum is talking about this.

Four accusers so far. Out of all of them, the worst and most critical accusations is one of drugging and raping a woman.

This is a really disappointing one. Neil always struck me as a good person. If something as dark as this can be true, then who the hell can we trust?
So you are assuming he's guilty?

He has a response to all of the accusations.
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Old 19th December 2018, 07:37 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Thanks for the merge. I hadn't seen the other threads. Either way, I was a bit amazed to see none of those threads in the first page, which means that the discussion was abandoned even though this case is barely starting to heat up as we speak.

So far we got four accusers. The more accusers, the less likely that they are lying. I still hold some hope that this could be at the very least a misconstruction of some sort.
Clues that multiple accusations are not stronger evidence than any of them individually: There is no pattern there.

The most credible one, maybe he put the moves on his partner. I didn't find that one all that egregious. It's not like he got aggressive. He may or may not have had sexual intentions but I'm not in the 'you can never date a coworker' camp.

As for the grad student affair, read Tyson's response. It's a more reasonable explanation than the accusation which there is no evidence Tyson was behaving that way in college.
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Old 20th December 2018, 01:55 AM   #227
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It seems a new pink dwarf planet called Farout - on account of its distance from the Sun - has been discovered. I hope Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn’t go looking for it.

“I think I found it!”
“No, that’s my nipple!”
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Old 20th December 2018, 08:10 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It seems a new pink dwarf planet called Farout - on account of its distance from the Sun - has been discovered. I hope Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn’t go looking for it.

“I think I found it!”
“No, that’s my nipple!”
Hahahahaha..... silly.
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Old 20th December 2018, 08:14 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So you are assuming he's guilty?

He has a response to all of the accusations.
No. Actually that's my bad. I phrased the post incorrectly. I should have said "If true, then that would be really disappointing". Believe me, I wish nothing more than these accusations being false. But in the past, this has not been the case. Typically, one accusation comes out and the accuser says nothing or denies it. A second one comes out, same thing. Then a third..... by the time there's about four or more than four, then the accuser starts going like "Ok, lets run an investigation to find out what happened" or then starts to be more vocal and addresses the situation by saying "it's true that he did know the women but it didn't play the way they describe it".... and then at the end, when the heat has been raised enough, and there's lots of accusers and of articles describing what happened, plus the investigation; the accuser ends up having to admit that the accusers were actually right and apologizes. That is more or less how this has been playing out in the past.

This is why I'm having a bad feeling about this. Still, I'm hoping that in this case, it's not true.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 04:11 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
This is why I'm having a bad feeling about this. Still, I'm hoping that in this case, it's not true.
In this case I'm inclined to give NDT the benefit of the doubt. Mostly.

The primary reason is that the new allegations don't fit the pattern of the old allegation. He stood accused of drugging and raping someone, but the other allegations are nothing like that and so don’t support that as a pattern of behavior.

The most credible allegation is from Ms Watson, the former assistant and driver. If NDT really told her she was too “distracting”, aka sexy, to be a producer, then he crossed a line. You’re just not allowed to deny someone a promotion because you find them too attractive and doubt your own self-control.

At the same time, I don’t think that rises to a career-killing revelation like the allegations against Cosby, Weinstein and Spacey are. If true, or even if just unable to be proven false, the cure should be more like a couple hours of mandated sensitivity training for the perpetuator and a modest but nice settlement for the victim.
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Old 25th December 2018, 12:30 PM   #231
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Whoa, he worded at someone??? That's TERRIBLE! He should be shot immediately
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Old 18th January 2019, 03:22 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Actually, in your rush to judgement, you didn't actually bother listening to what NDT said. When he said "....we from they" he wasn't claiming that Bush's "they" referred to all Muslims...he said "they" were the "Muslim fundamentalists", i.e, the terrorists.
Errrrr..... fundamentalists =/= terrorists.

Tyson was saying Arabic star names confounded the point Bush was trying to make. Stars named by Arabs does nothing to confound a slam against terrorists.

And did you notice that Tyson had admitted his error and apologized to Bush? Tyson's words:

Quote:
And I here publicly apologize to the President for casting his quote in the context of contrasting religions rather than as a poetic reference to the lost souls of Columbia.
You are almost as incompetent in reading as you are at math and physics.
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Old 19th January 2019, 05:25 AM   #233
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Tyson's been getting around.
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Old 19th January 2019, 01:32 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
I think there's another one.
There is: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=333605
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Old 8th October 2019, 01:05 AM   #235
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Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about the allegations on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert (at 1:20-4:50):

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Stephen Colbert Probes Misconduct Allegations with Neil DeGrasse Tyson on 'Late Show' (Hollywood Reporter, Oct. 7, 2019)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 8th October 2019 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 9th October 2019, 03:43 AM   #236
dann
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,983
One more:

CBS: Neil deGrasse Tyson addresses sexual misconduct allegations:
"The concept of personal space has evolved.”
(Oct. 8, 2019)

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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