Cont: The Trump Presidency 12: The Dirty Dozen

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erwinl said:
Well,

According to Wikipedia, between 2014 and 2016 a total of 23613 Amercans got a permanent residency in Mexico. That amounts, on average, to 227 per week.
If there is some extra migration after 2016, it could very wel be some 300 americans leaving the USA per week.

So. Is Trump's wall a Chinese wall, to keep out foreigners, or is it an East German wall to keep in US citizens? :)
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Shhhhhhhhh.... Don't **** my life up!! :thumbsup::D
 
Mmm. No one could have seen this coming. Trump stiffed contractors for billions last year as well...and they're winning lawsuits

The end honestly sums up the important part of it, even if it's repeating the title.

Anyway, the point is that Donald Trump promised to run the federal government the way he ran his businesses...and it appears that this is one promise that he's actually keeping: Stiffing contractors out of money they're contractually owed, forcing them to turn to costly litigation to get paid.
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acbytesla said:
Hitler never won an election to my knowledge. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. He lost but Hindenburg who did win ceded power as Chancellor to Hitler and two years later Hitler declared himself Fuhrer or Emperor and that was that until he died in the bunker in 45.

They never had another election for the leader of Germany.
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Well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1933_German_federal_election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_1933_German_parliamentary_election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_German_parliamentary_election_and_referendum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_German_parliamentary_election_and_referendum

All rigged, of course.
 
Trump Tweets

I often said during rallies, with little variation, that “Mexico will pay for the Wall.” We have just signed a great new Trade Deal with Mexico. It is Billions of Dollars a year better than the very bad NAFTA deal which it replaces. The difference pays for Wall many times over!

H1-B holders in the United States can rest assured that changes are soon coming which will bring both simplicity and certainty to your stay, including a potential path to citizenship. We want to encourage talented and highly skilled people to pursue career options in the U.S.
 
Am I the only one with the feeling that Trump has no idea how International Trade actually works?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

I often said during rallies, with little variation, that “Mexico will pay for the Wall.” We have just signed a great new Trade Deal with Mexico. It is Billions of Dollars a year better than the very bad NAFTA deal which it replaces. The difference pays for Wall many times over!

H1-B holders in the United States can rest assured that changes are soon coming which will bring both simplicity and certainty to your stay, including a potential path to citizenship. We want to encourage talented and highly skilled people to pursue career options in the U.S.
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If anyone was curious, this is what was on his campaign website in 2016 for pay for the wall..

It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year. There are several ways to compel Mexico to pay for the wall including the following:
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Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

I often said during rallies, with little variation, that “Mexico will pay for the Wall.” We have just signed a great new Trade Deal with Mexico. It is Billions of Dollars a year better than the very bad NAFTA deal which it replaces. The difference pays for Wall many times over!
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Ah, now i understand. The wall money from Congress is just a loan, and they'll get it back once the Mexican trade money starts coming in. Brilliant!
 
PhantomWolf said:
Am I the only one with the feeling that Trump has no idea how International Trade actually works?
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I'd be surprised to learn Trump knows how doorknobs work. Which is uncharitable of me as he may possess the understanding but be foiled by his tiny crinkled paws.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

I often said during rallies, with little variation, that “Mexico will pay for the Wall.” We have just signed a great new Trade Deal with Mexico. It is Billions of Dollars a year better than the very bad NAFTA deal which it replaces. The difference pays for Wall many times over!

H1-B holders in the United States can rest assured that changes are soon coming which will bring both simplicity and certainty to your stay, including a potential path to citizenship. We want to encourage talented and highly skilled people to pursue career options in the U.S.
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Okay, this one's weird. The first seems like him, with the capitalized Billions, the unnecessary "very bad" and the general failure to math. The second seems like someone else. It's too grammatically correct and includes some well written ambiguity for racist interpretations: "everyone GTFO" would also add "simplicity and certainty" to their stay, and there's no indication that the "talented and highly skilled people" they want to have overlap with the people who are already here.

How much time was there between these twits?
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Okay, this one's weird. The first seems like him, with the capitalized Billions, the unnecessary "very bad" and the general failure to math. The second seems like someone else. It's too grammatically correct and includes some well written ambiguity for racist interpretations: "everyone GTFO" would also add "simplicity and certainty" to their stay, and there's no indication that the "talented and highly skilled people" they want to have overlap with the people who are already here.
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(bolding mine)

Hypothesis: Stephen Miller wrote it.
 
smartcooky said:
I'm having trouble parsing this bit
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I'm guessing that he's saying 300 murders per week are due to illegal immigrants.

The first figures I found said that somewhat under 16,000 murders occurred in 2014. Assuming that not much has changed, that's about 300 murders per week. So, I suppose that more or less all murders are caused by illegal immigrants.

Given this fact, I guess I must change my mind. Build the wall!

ETA: As others have suggested, perhaps he was talking about heroin.
 
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smartcooky said:
1. Over 90% of all Mexican cartel drugs that come in across the US-Mexican border do so through the legitimate ports of entry on the border, smuggled in in trucks and vehicles. A wall is not going to make any difference to this.
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Are you sure about the statistic? According to this 2017 DHS slide deck, in 2016, it was 78% coming through ports of entry. Obviously, that's a large majority.

There is an additional concern, I suppose. We're measuring seizures. If going over the border away from a port of entry is genuinely effective, then a smaller percentage will be seized there than at the ports, so our metric would be misleading.

None of this is to say I support the wall, of course. I don't believe it's an effective way to control drug smuggling or, really, any of the other aims Trump has (aside from motivating his base, for which it seems quite effective).
 
Foolmewunz said:
Nice try but that's an old and idiotic debating tactic of woo-slingers and reactionaries. We're discussing YOUR foolish ideas.

If you want to discuss my foolish ideas, have at 'em.

Yeah, I have a solution. Trump gives in. And he will. This is all about re-election. As he begins to take honest note of ACTUAL (not pretend) polls and sees the minus number climbing (12% more on the RCP Average in the "Don't Approve" category and 12.8% more on fivethirtyeight) and even Rasmussen showing his die-hard supporters no longer supporting him.... He now has to weigh the yuge campaign value of having delivered on his Wall, versus the ridicule value of continuing this fight and losing later and not having a wall to pose in front of in 2020.
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Ah, foolish ideas indeed.
“As he begins to take honest note of ACTUAL polls.”
I am alaways amazed when other posters write about President DJT understanding and accepting facts before weighing them carefully to rationally decide on a course of action. As if everything he has been doing since elected is merely an act - a sham which he will drop once he understands the seriousness of the situation.

He has created a world where he is not exposed to unpleasant facts. And when those facts do make it into the Oval Office, he confidently ignores them.

I am not a doctor and I have never met the president so I cannot say that he most assuredly has a mental illness. But I will say he is doing an uncannily accurate impersonation of someone suffering from Narcissic Persinality Disorder. The man needs help, not actual poll numbers.
 
phiwum said:
Are you sure about the statistic? According to this 2017 DHS slide deck, in 2016, it was 78% coming through ports of entry. Obviously, that's a large majority.

There is an additional concern, I suppose. We're measuring seizures. If going over the border away from a port of entry is genuinely effective, then a smaller percentage will be seized there than at the ports, so our metric would be misleading.

None of this is to say I support the wall, of course. I don't believe it's an effective way to control drug smuggling or, really, any of the other aims Trump has (aside from motivating his base, for which it seems quite effective).
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From that slide... wow.

 Common between the ports smuggling methods
– Backpackers (Main method)
– Air cannons, trebuchets & catapults (100-300 meters)
– Tunnel (basic to complex)
– Ultralights & UAVs
– Ramps

Trebuchets!!! Seriously, wow.
 
the way to control drug trafficking is to control demand, as countless examples have shown.
Americans addicted to painkillers would love nothing more than a program that provides care and substitutes that will allow them to continue their life.
But the Trump administration is going hardcore in the opposite direction.
 
Jerrymander said:
There's speculation that Trump's harping on the border wall and the shutdown could cost him in 2020. He keep trying to please his base and the radical fringes that he's turning off moderates and swing voters.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/01/trumps-border-wall-could-cost-him-2020-votes/579952/
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In other news, reporters in Palm Beach have confirmed, via personal experience, that the water in the ocean is still wet. Stay tuned for our in-depth reporting at 11:00: Fire-hot or not?

;)
 
What does "non-political" even mean these days, indeed what did it mean ever?

"Politics" is not some walled up separate pocket universe that doesn't affect the rest of... everything.
 
Trump won't get the Wall build via a National Emergency, since the Pentagon won't let him divert billions and billions away from Defense to his sandcastle - and it will put pressure on the Senate to stop him if he tries.
 
CapelDodger said:
smartcooky did refer to cartel drugs. I expect what's moved across country comes from smaller players.
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Maybe so. I don't know how to verify that.

But, in any case, we're talking about an overstatement that isn't all that essential to his primary point. I was just surprised by the figure he claimed.
 
Belz... said:
These days, it seems to me like politics are the continuation of war by other means.
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It has usually been thus.

Why do you think there are two red lines in the House of Commons?

Members may speak only from where they were called, which must be within the House. They may not speak from the floor of the House between the red lines (traditional supposed to be two sword-lengths apart). Also, the Speaker will not call a Member in the gallery if there is room downstairs. Members must stand whilst speaking but if they are unable to do so they are allowed to address the House seated.
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JoeMorgue said:
What does "non-political" even mean these days, indeed what did it mean ever?

"Politics" is not some walled up separate pocket universe that doesn't affect the rest of... everything.
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Earlier I wrote that there does not exist a national emergency that is non political....even 9/11 or a hurricane. Do you extend that far or is there a limit?
 
Trump Tweets

Humanitarian Crisis at our Southern Border. I just got back and it is a far worse situation than almost anyone would understand, an invasion! I have been there numerous times - The Democrats, Cryin’ Chuck and Nancy don’t know how bad and dangerous it is for our ENTIRE COUNTRY....

...The Steel Barrier, or Wall, should have been built by previous administrations long ago. They never got it done - I will. Without it, our Country cannot be safe. Criminals, Gangs, Human Traffickers, Drugs & so much other big trouble can easily pour in. It can be stopped cold!
 
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