ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags alex jones , lawsuits , Sandy Hook , shooting conspiracies

Reply
Old 14th February 2019, 06:42 PM   #281
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,750
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Do the second, and you have commited perjury and could go to jail.
He's screwed either way. Tell the truth now under oath, and the plaintiffs can argue that his former, allegedly defamatory, statements accusing them of being crisis actors were made with reckless -- if not intentional and malicious -- disregard for the truth. Admitting that you knew your alleged defamation wasn't true is tantamount to admitting it was unjustly defamatory. This is undoubtedly why Jones fought not to be deposed under oath.

I doubt Jones cares about his listeners at all. But he might lose sponsors, and that's where it hurts.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th February 2019, 07:30 PM   #282
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,528
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Good ole Alex will tell the truth on the deposition as I am sure it is just an act then afterwards he'll tell his fans that he was just saying what was necessary to the 'man'.
Well that would amount to publicly stating that he lied in his deposition. I am pretty certain that the lawyers for the families will be watching everything he does online, and every public pronouncement he makes.
__________________
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore - if they're white!"
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2019, 05:51 AM   #283
ThirdTimeLucky
New Blood
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well that would amount to publicly stating that he lied in his deposition. I am pretty certain that the lawyers for the families will be watching everything he does online, and every public pronouncement he makes.
Have these poor folk not suffered enough?
ThirdTimeLucky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2019, 06:17 AM   #284
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 27,343
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well that would amount to publicly stating that he lied in his deposition. I am pretty certain that the lawyers for the families will be watching everything he does online, and every public pronouncement he makes.


We should start an over/under pool on how many times the lawyers ask him, "Were you lying then, or are you lying now?"

I'll take "10".
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2019, 07:20 AM   #285
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 22,945
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
We should start an over/under pool on how many times the lawyers ask him, "Were you lying then, or are you lying now?"



I'll take "10".
The only correct answer to that question would be "yes". So he'll say no.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2019, 07:38 AM   #286
RandyK47
Scholar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 94
I think the best out for him would be along the lines of “I thought at the time based on the facts and evidence I was seeing that Sandy Hook was staged. I realize now I had bad or incomplete information. “
RandyK47 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2019, 07:49 AM   #287
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 17,750
Originally Posted by RandyK47 View Post
I think the best out for him would be along the lines of “I thought at the time based on the facts and evidence I was seeing that Sandy Hook was staged. I realize now I had bad or incomplete information. “
Yes, the "walk a narrow line" strategy might work. If I were cross-examining for the plaintiffs, I would then say in court, "So, Mr. Jones, does that mean you failed to diligently discover the facts before you decided to air public statements about the plaintiffs? Do you realize that you had a duty to do so? You carried on making those statements for years even though there was considerable discussion and debate in the media regarding the truthfulness and factual foundation of them. How is it that you have re-examined the evidence and changed your conclusion only after you faced legal action?"

Assuming the marketing materials the plaintiffs got after their discovery motion were granted don't tell a rosy picture of his dedication to truth and careful research, I feel a good legal team wouldn't have much trouble establishing malicious intent even with a carefully penitent deposition.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2019, 07:55 AM   #288
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,522
He'll fall back on some variation of the "I'm just reporting what people are talking about" excuse that forms the backbone of right wing news. All he has to do is provide one "report" (which in this day in age can be an random anoynous online yahoo) and he'll be able to hide behind it.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2019, 10:17 AM   #289
bknight
Graduate Poster
 
bknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,802
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Yes, the "walk a narrow line" strategy might work. If I were cross-examining for the plaintiffs, I would then say in court, "So, Mr. Jones, does that mean you failed to diligently discover the facts before you decided to air public statements about the plaintiffs? Do you realize that you had a duty to do so? You carried on making those statements for years even though there was considerable discussion and debate in the media regarding the truthfulness and factual foundation of them. How is it that you have re-examined the evidence and changed your conclusion only after you faced legal action?"

Assuming the marketing materials the plaintiffs got after their discovery motion were granted don't tell a rosy picture of his dedication to truth and careful research, I feel a good legal team wouldn't have much trouble establishing malicious intent even with a carefully penitent deposition.
Engage the brain prior to opening one's mouth.
bknight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2019, 10:22 AM   #290
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,112
As much as I detest Jones and his ilk, I imagine this is going to be a difficult case for them to win. 1A is very protective of journalistic speech, even journalism that is pure conspiracy tabloid trash. I will be curious to see what approach the plaintiffs take in this case.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2019, 05:11 AM   #291
JesseCuster
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 993
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Analogy

I go in for a medical test. I want the results to be accurate. I hope they are negative.

No one thinks I want the results to be negative regardless if I have an illness or not. I'm also not taking the test necessarily with the presumption that i don't have the illness.
Better analogy:

You are suffering and in pain so you go to see the doctor.

The doctor orders some tests to see if Disease X is responsible for your suffering and pain.

You hope the test comes back negative, not because it will show that Disease X isn't the cause of your suffering, but because your logic is that people with Disease X are more likely to have the pain you suffered than people who don't have Disease X, and you hope for a negative test result so that you can conclude that it's less likely that your suffering actually existed in the first place.

As if the existence of your pain and suffering was up for debate.

That these people have suffered because of the disgusting accusations thrown at them is not really up for discussion. There's no way that the parents haven't suffered because of the harassment (on top of the nightmare of having their children murderer). The courts will decide, I imagine, whether or not it meets the legal standards for defamation or whatever exactly is being sued for, and whether or not Alex Jones can be held responsible for their suffering. The fine legal points aren't important for the point I'm making.

Hoping for a certain verdict so that you can conclude it's less likely that established facts are true is such a failure of logic that it makes me wonder if you really believe what you're saying and that you're not just arguing for the sake of arguing.
JesseCuster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th February 2019, 07:47 AM   #292
Major Major
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 341
One wonders; how are the parents going to take it during discovery when Jones's lawyers ask when they became crisis actors, how much were they paid, and are they ready to provide pay stubs?

Okay, so the parents won't testify. Then, they will be called out as being unwilling to defend their accusations in court.

Major Major is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th February 2019, 12:13 PM   #293
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,528
Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
Hoping for a certain verdict so that you can conclude it's less likely that established facts are true is such a failure of logic that it makes me wonder if you really believe what you're saying and that you're not just arguing for the sake of arguing.

...and the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbin' along, along.....
__________________
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore - if they're white!"
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th February 2019, 01:16 PM   #294
bknight
Graduate Poster
 
bknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,802
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
...and the red, red robin comes bob, bob, bobbin' along, along.....
"And the beat goes on."
bknight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2019, 02:58 PM   #295
Whip
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,471
lol. ultimate dumbass in litigation goes on Rogan and blames 'anomalies'

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Whip is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2019, 03:07 PM   #296
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,677
Originally Posted by Whip View Post
lol. ultimate dumbass in litigation goes on Rogan and blames 'anomalies'

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Hw thinks the judges in this case are not following his antics?
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th February 2019, 03:47 PM   #297
Whip
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,471
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Hw thinks the judges in this case are not following his antics?
he really thinks he is far more important than he really is which is not at all.
Whip is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 11:55 AM   #298
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,428
Originally Posted by RandyK47 View Post
I think the best out for him would be along the lines of “I thought at the time based on the facts and evidence I was seeing that Sandy Hook was staged. I realize now I had bad or incomplete information. “

That's exactly what he just did on the Rogan show. For maybe twenty minutes. The rest of the almost five hours seems to be him doing everything he can to look as crazy as possible. Nazis taking DMT got tech from the clockwork elves from other dimensions and stuff. Literally. Elves which he himself met in his childhood.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2019, 12:10 PM   #299
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 9,020
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
That's exactly what he just did on the Rogan show. For maybe twenty minutes. The rest of the almost five hours seems to be him doing everything he can to look as crazy as possible. Nazis taking DMT got tech from the clockwork elves from other dimensions and stuff. Literally. Elves which he himself met in his childhood.
Maybe his lawyer neglected to inform him that an insanity defense won't work in a civil suit.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 10:11 AM   #300
MicahJava
Master Poster
 
MicahJava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,968
So... who gets to be on the "panel of people who judge free speech"? Wouldn't they be as bias as any other human? Delusional too, considering that most humans in the world believes in God, the supernatural, superstitions, etc.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 10:27 AM   #301
MicahJava
Master Poster
 
MicahJava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,968
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
That's exactly what he just did on the Rogan show. For maybe twenty minutes. The rest of the almost five hours seems to be him doing everything he can to look as crazy as possible. Nazis taking DMT got tech from the clockwork elves from other dimensions and stuff. Literally. Elves which he himself met in his childhood.
Alex Jones can at least provide some corroborating eyewitness evidence for DMT elves, unlike God, which is what most of the people who are judging him believe in. NOBODY should be trusted to be on a "panel of people who judge which speech is allowed".
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 10:28 AM   #302
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,451
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So... who gets to be on the "panel of people who judge free speech"? Wouldn't they be as bias as any other human? Delusional too, considering that most humans in the world believes in God, the supernatural, superstitions, etc.
Irrelevant for this part.

Alex Jones was perfectly within his rights to slander someone, but equally, if they can prove it is slander according to federal law, then he can be sued.

http://kellywarnerlaw.com/us-defamation-laws/

Quote:
To win a U.S. defamation lawsuit, the plaintiff, at the very least, must prove that the defendant:
  • Published or otherwise broadcast an unprivileged, false statement of fact about the plaintiff;
  • Caused material harm to the plaintiff by publishing or broadcasting said false statement of fact;
  • Acted either negligently or with actual malice;
To me it looks pretty clear that Alex Jones has defamed the victims' parents by meeting those criteria and then some.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 10:34 AM   #303
MicahJava
Master Poster
 
MicahJava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,968
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Irrelevant for this part.

Alex Jones was perfectly within his rights to slander someone, but equally, if they can prove it is slander according to federal law, then he can be sued.

http://kellywarnerlaw.com/us-defamation-laws/



To me it looks pretty clear that Alex Jones has defamed the victims' parents by meeting those criteria and then some.
The Sandy Hook parents CHOSE to go on television for media interviews. If you can't accuse them of being actors, who can you?

By the way, the 1967 Operation Northwoods memo, 1990 Nayirah testimony, and the 2003 Bush-Blair Iraq memo are all real-life examples of crisis actor conspiracies involving the United States. Even more reasons why the United States should rightfully allow this behavior, clearly conspiracy watchdogs are important in society in order to prevent something like this from happening.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 10:38 AM   #304
MicahJava
Master Poster
 
MicahJava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,968
All evidence that the Sandy Hook victims are "victims" comes from the U.S. Government, the same government that originated 1967 Operation Northwoods memo, 1990 Nayirah testimony, and the 2003 Bush-Blair Iraq memo. Clearly, the U.S. Government is not a 100% reliable source of information, so some level of intuition must be involved. Intuition should not be allowed in court.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 10:45 AM   #305
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 19,039
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So... who gets to be on the "panel of people who judge free speech"? Wouldn't they be as bias as any other human? Delusional too, considering that most humans in the world believes in God, the supernatural, superstitions, etc.
Uh, belief in god <> auto-bias.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 10:48 AM   #306
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 18,398
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So... who gets to be on the "panel of people who judge free speech"? Wouldn't they be as bias as any other human? Delusional too, considering that most humans in the world believes in God, the supernatural, superstitions, etc.
Whose right to free speech was restricted in this instance?
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 11:17 AM   #307
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 31,476
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Irrelevant for this part.

Alex Jones was perfectly within his rights to slander someone, but equally, if they can prove it is slander according to federal law, then he can be sued.

http://kellywarnerlaw.com/us-defamation-laws/

Quote:
To win a U.S. defamation lawsuit, the plaintiff, at the very least, must prove that the defendant:
Published or otherwise broadcast an unprivileged, false statement of fact about the plaintiff;
Caused material harm to the plaintiff by publishing or broadcasting said false statement of fact;
Acted either negligently or with actual malice;
To me it looks pretty clear that Alex Jones has defamed the victims' parents by meeting those criteria and then some.

Would incompetence be a defence?
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 11:25 AM   #308
Cainkane1
Philosopher
 
Cainkane1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The great American southeast
Posts: 8,758
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43799449

I hope the bastard gets taken to the cleaners
The Sandy Hook massacre happened. A lunatic got his hands on a repeating rifle and killed those innocent children and adults. American society is going to have to try and keep weapons like these out of the hands of people mentally unfit to own them. The murderer in question actually didn't own that rifle but he stole it from the house. When you have someone obviously insane living in the house with you-you lock the gun up.

His parents were his first victims. He spared society a trial by killing himself but this could have been stopped way before it happend in the first place.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.
Cainkane1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 11:29 AM   #309
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,451
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Would incompetence be a defence?
I don't know, if I'm an incompetent doctor and kill someone through my decisions, is that medical negligence on my part?

It's almost as if incompetence is a subset of negligence. Unfortunately, I have no reason to believe that Jones is incompetent, but highly malicious.

Remember, during his children's custody trial, he claimed it was all an act. I *really* hope that bites him in this trial.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 11:47 AM   #310
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,428
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
NOBODY should be trusted to be on a "panel of people who judge which speech is allowed".

I couldn't agree more, but that DMT elves stuff was nothing I ever connected to Alex Jones, so I thought it was worth mentioning in the context of this thread (and yes, maybe he did it to prepare some "insanity defense").

In fact I recently re-watched Jon Ronson's documentary about David Icke ("The Lizards and the Jews", on youtube, worth watching), where in 2001 a young and angry Alex Jones is very vocal about how he thinks Icke says a lot of good things but then discredits everything with the stuff about Reptilians from another dimension, and that he thinks it's likely because Icke's an agent. But hey, that was almost 20 years ago, and people can change. Yet now he says he has childhood experiences with those elves and other dimensions, so either he lied back then or lies now.

My opinion on both those characters has remained the same in all the time of observation: Icke believes what he says and has remained consistent, while Jones has so often changed his tune and behaved so destructively that I can only see him as a con artist.

Which doesn't mean that any one of them should be censored or "de-platformed" in any way.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 2nd March 2019 at 11:57 AM. Reason: damn that guy is named Jon Ronson, not Ron Jonson
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 11:55 AM   #311
bknight
Graduate Poster
 
bknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,802
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
All evidence that the Sandy Hook victims are "victims" comes from the U.S. Government, the same government that originated 1967 Operation Northwoods memo, 1990 Nayirah testimony, and the 2003 Bush-Blair Iraq memo. Clearly, the U.S. Government is not a 100% reliable source of information, so some level of intuition must be involved. Intuition should not be allowed in court.
No that's not correct, they are victims by the very fact that children and adults were killed. It has nothing to do with the Government declaring them victims.
bknight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 12:50 PM   #312
Axxman300
Illuminator
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,996
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So... who gets to be on the "panel of people who judge free speech"? Wouldn't they be as bias as any other human? Delusional too, considering that most humans in the world believes in God, the supernatural, superstitions, etc.
Buddy, you might as well believe in them too. It might help your credibility.

Plus, it's in a court of law. Due process is being served to the fullest, and there is no verdict yet.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 12:52 PM   #313
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 19,039
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
All evidence that the Sandy Hook victims are "victims" comes from the U.S. Government, the same government that originated 1967 Operation Northwoods memo, 1990 Nayirah testimony, and the 2003 Bush-Blair Iraq memo. Clearly, the U.S. Government is not a 100% reliable source of information, so some level of intuition must be involved. Intuition should not be allowed in court.
Children are dead. You don't care. We get that.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 01:22 PM   #314
Axxman300
Illuminator
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,996
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The Sandy Hook parents CHOSE to go on television for media interviews. If you can't accuse them of being actors, who can you?
There is a difference between being an actor and an activist.

Some kid stormed a grammar school and killed a bunch of kids. I know human emotions are an alien concept to you, but the parents of the murdered kids were a little upset by this event, and a FEW decided to use their grief productively by speaking out against what they perceive as easy access to military firearms.

I will remind you that Freedom of Speech applies to them too.

Quote:
By the way, the 1967 Operation Northwoods memo, 1990 Nayirah testimony, and the 2003 Bush-Blair Iraq memo are all real-life examples of crisis actor conspiracies involving the United States.
Northwoods was a JFK-NSC whitepaper that was part of a list of ways to invade Cuba based on events of opportunity. It never left the room...because it was a dumb idea that would never work.

The 1990 "Nayirah Testimony" was fabricated, but also unnecessary as the Iraqi occupation forces were carrying out plenty of murder to go around.

Here's the Human Rights Watch version:

https://www.hrw.org/reports/1992/WR92/MEW1-02.htm

And the Bush-Blair Memo? In the end we didn't need it or use it. We just up and invaded on blind faith we'd find WMD's.

*Should point out that if we knew for certain they didn't have WMD's we would have flown some in for our advancing forces to "find'. CTists never think of that*


Quote:
Even more reasons why the United States should rightfully allow this behavior, clearly conspiracy watchdogs are important in society in order to prevent something like this from happening.
There's a difference between a watch-dog for government behavior, and a clown car.

More to the point, at this moment, in this thread you, Micha Java are a tool of right-wing extremists. The Sandy Hook False Flag CT is based on the right-wing fear that the US Government is going to repeal the 2nd Amendment, and send stormtroopers to take their guns and kill them in the process. Furthermore, this particular CT is enhanced because our POTUS was a black man, which was the right-wing's greatest fear come to life.

The question is this, are you a willing Alt-Right tool, or just another fool?

Simple facts:

27 people, 20 of those children, were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary when Adam Lanza stormed the place. He later shot himself.

This was in 2012. Since then there have been no new Federal Laws passed on battle rifles, and people can still buy AR-15 variants.

We have also had the Pulse Nightclub, and the Las Vegas mass shootings. Still no new laws.

How can anyone claim false flags when there have been zero results?
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 01:53 PM   #315
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 18,854
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
All evidence that the Sandy Hook victims are "victims" comes from the U.S. Government, the same government that originated 1967 Operation Northwoods memo, 1990 Nayirah testimony, and the 2003 Bush-Blair Iraq memo. Clearly, the U.S. Government is not a 100% reliable source of information, so some level of intuition must be involved. Intuition should not be allowed in court.
This is not correct. The parents of the children, unconnected to the US Government have told us they are dead. The local police, sheriff, and emergency response told us who and how many died and they aren't part of the US Government. Multiple independent news outlets related the deaths. Random citizens who lived near the school reported on the aspects of the attack they were aware of or were told of by the children they sheltered. You should retract this as you a demonstrably wrong.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 02:02 PM   #316
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 18,854
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The Sandy Hook parents CHOSE to go on television for media interviews. If you can't accuse them of being actors, who can you?

By the way, the 1967 Operation Northwoods memo, 1990 Nayirah testimony, and the 2003 Bush-Blair Iraq memo are all real-life examples of crisis actor conspiracies involving the United States. Even more reasons why the United States should rightfully allow this behavior, clearly conspiracy watchdogs are important in society in order to prevent something like this from happening.
Please provide proof that any of these parents are actors. Many of the parents still live in the area and continue with their employment. Going on the news after this tragedy would not qualify someone as an actor. Using your logic, everyone the local news crews talk to would qualify as an actor. Again, absent proof you should retract your statement.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 02:07 PM   #317
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 21,491
Alex Jones the conspiracy watchdog that barks all day, howls at the moon and humps your guest’s leg.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 02:18 PM   #318
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,582
It's a real shame they can't sue him for living!!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 02:30 PM   #319
Whip
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,471
I don't know how people can listen to him. I kept waiting to get hit with a phlegm ball.
Whip is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2019, 02:34 PM   #320
MicahJava
Master Poster
 
MicahJava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,968
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
This is not correct. The parents of the children, unconnected to the US Government have told us they are dead. The local police, sheriff, and emergency response told us who and how many died and they aren't part of the US Government. Multiple independent news outlets related the deaths. Random citizens who lived near the school reported on the aspects of the attack they were aware of or were told of by the children they sheltered. You should retract this as you a demonstrably wrong.
The 1962 Operation Northwoods memo mentions the use of "funerals for mock victims". I don't know what their plan was for a possible exhumation, but the fact remains that somebody thought it out that far. So the point stands.

Last edited by MicahJava; 2nd March 2019 at 03:41 PM.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:18 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.