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Tags Venezuela incidents , Venezuela issues , Venezuela politics

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Old 8th March 2019, 05:50 AM   #1001
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Trying so hard, failing so badly
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Old 8th March 2019, 12:28 PM   #1002
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Venezuela having trouble keeping the power on again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...mage=BBSEFRH|6



And Venezuelan officials succumb to paranoid fantasies again.
Proving once again the old joke:
What did socialists use before candles? Electricity.
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Old 8th March 2019, 05:31 PM   #1003
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I understand Chaduro and the rest of the gang that couldn't shoot straight needs scapegoats to blame for having driven Venezuela straight into the ground, but please leave the poor Iguanas alone:

Quote:
The always have excuses whenever there’s a nationwide blackout. They blame the droughts, the rains, even someone with a stick. Once, notoriously, they blamed an iguana for gnawing at some power cables. But most often they blame it on the United States, the old standby here in our country. The nonsensical excuses make for some fine memes, but the truth is simpler: no maintenance, plus no investment, plus corruption equals awful service.
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Old 9th March 2019, 06:40 AM   #1004
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I understand Chaduro and the rest of the gang that couldn't shoot straight needs scapegoats to blame for having driven Venezuela straight into the ground, but please leave the poor Iguanas alone:
I am not sure things are so simple. Did you notice this major power outage took place right after Guaido came back to Venezuela, and was greatly fearing arrest, and right after the German ambassador was expelled?

I suspect this was a ploy by the opposition, to try to weaken Maduro, and protect Guaido, and try to prevent his arrest.
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Old 9th March 2019, 07:37 AM   #1005
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I am not sure things are so simple. Did you notice this major power outage took place right after Guaido came back to Venezuela, and was greatly fearing arrest, and right after the German ambassador was expelled?
Whenever it happened it would always be shortly before or shortly after something else happening.

Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I suspect this was a ploy by the opposition, to try to weaken Maduro, and protect Guaido, and try to prevent his arrest.
That it was sabotage by the opposition or the USA or any number of others Maduro considers enemies is always the conspiracy theory.
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:13 AM   #1006
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I am not sure things are so simple. Did you notice this major power outage took place right after Guaido came back to Venezuela, and was greatly fearing arrest, and right after the German ambassador was expelled?
This particular blackout, the latest in a long line, occurred well after it became clear the regime concluded arresting Guaido would be counterproductive.

Quote:
I suspect this was a ploy by the opposition, to try to weaken Maduro, and protect Guaido, and try to prevent his arrest.
I suspect the entire point of this scapegoating campaign is to convince the willingly gullible that opposition sabotage is responsible for all their humiliating failures.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:07 PM   #1007
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The timing is really amusingly bad. Not only was it the sixth anniversary of Chavez' death earlier this week, today is "anti-imperialist day", marking four years since the hopey-changey fraud bizarrely declared Venezuela a threat to Yankistani security. And of course the people went out on the streets with force.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:56 PM   #1008
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The timing is really amusingly bad. Not only was it the sixth anniversary of Chavez' death earlier this week, today is "anti-imperialist day", marking four years since the hopey-changey fraud bizarrely declared Venezuela a threat to Yankistani security. And of course the people went out on the streets with force.
And we know it would be completely out of character for the state propaganda outlet of the Maduro regime to stitch together footage from previous rallies to give a false impression. Just like they wouldn't blame the US for their lack of food and medicine, and laughably show tweets from Mark Rubio as "evidence" that the failure of their power grid was really sabotage done by the United States.
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:02 PM   #1009
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
And we know it would be completely out of character for the state propaganda outlet of the Maduro regime to stitch together footage from previous rallies to give a false impression. Just like they wouldn't blame the US for their lack of food and medicine, and laughably show tweets from Mark Rubio as "evidence" that the failure of their power grid was really sabotage done by the United States.

Well, don't forget that just because your deceptive sources claim the Venezuelans just named Little Marco out of thin air, that doesn't mean that they named Little Marco out of thin air, but just that those sources want us to think that they named Little Marco out of thin air. Investigation is ongoing and the biggest clue so far is that he tweeted about failing back-up generators at the dam before anybody in Venezuela knew that three of the five back-up generators failed due to some stuxnet-like cyber attack. So he seems to have been in the information loop.
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:43 PM   #1010
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Another very informative podcast, an eighty minutes interview with venezuelanalysis author Ricardo Vaz reporting from Caracas, just published, is here.
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Old 9th March 2019, 04:25 PM   #1011
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Btw following the "debate" on twitter, I gave people who honestly asked about the 2018 presidential election this link which goes to a venezuelanalysis article from the day before the election. I got a lot of positive feedback for it.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:00 PM   #1012
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Well, don't forget that just because your deceptive sources claim the Venezuelans just named Little Marco out of thin air, that doesn't mean that they named Little Marco out of thin air, but just that those sources want us to think that they named Little Marco out of thin air. Investigation is ongoing and the biggest clue so far is that he tweeted about failing back-up generators at the dam before anybody in Venezuela knew that three of the five back-up generators failed due to some stuxnet-like cyber attack. So he seems to have been in the information loop.
Occam's razor: Years of neglect on the infrastructure or Marco Rubio?

I’m going with years of neglect.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Another very informative podcast, an eighty minutes interview with venezuelanalysis author Ricardo Vaz reporting from Caracas, just published, is here.
Yeah, “informative” in the sense of that Max Blumenthal article from a guy who’s expertise is literally nothing more than that he decided to write for outlets like Mintpress news about a year ago.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:05 PM   #1013
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^Come on Mycroft, in your position we expect a bit more than that lame drivel. Go search for dirt on Ricardo Vaz (without listenting to what he says of course).
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Old 9th March 2019, 06:09 PM   #1014
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
^Come on Mycroft, in your position we expect a bit more than that lame drivel. Go search for dirt on Ricardo Vaz (without listenting to what he says of course).
If he said something worth hearing you would have just told us what it was.

Without wasting 90 minutes of my time, I can predict he would say exactly what you would say. Or Abbey Martin, Max Blumenthal, Mnar Muhawesh, Caitlin Johnstone or any number of other acolytes of the faith. It's not a worldview that starts with evidence and forms an opinion, it's a worldview that takes every problem then rationalizes how it's really the fault of the USA, Israel, or capitalism.
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Old 10th March 2019, 07:31 AM   #1015
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Oopsie, now look at this. What Max Blumenthal and many others have observed already two days after it happened has now, two weeks later, made it into the New York Times: Footage Contradicts U.S. Claim That Maduro Burned Aid Convoy

Originally Posted by New York Times
CÚCUTA, Colombia — The narrative seemed to fit Venezuela’s authoritarian rule: Security forces, on the order of President Nicolás Maduro, had torched a convoy of humanitarian aid as millions in his country were suffering from illness and hunger.

Vice President Mike Pence wrote that “the tyrant in Caracas danced” as his henchmen “burned food & medicine.” The State Department released a video saying Mr. Maduro had ordered the trucks burned. And Venezuela’s opposition held up the images of the burning aid, reproduced on dozens of news sites and television screens throughout Latin America, as evidence of Mr. Maduro’s cruelty.

But there is a problem: The opposition itself, not Mr. Maduro’s men, appears to have set the cargo alight accidentally.

Unpublished footage obtained by The New York Times and previously released tapes — including footage released by the Colombian government, which has blamed Mr. Maduro for the fire — allowed for a reconstruction of the incident. It suggests that a Molotov cocktail thrown by an antigovernment protester was the most likely trigger for the blaze. [...]

One more stinky little propaganda operation exposed, this time even "officially".
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Old 10th March 2019, 09:43 AM   #1016
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So the alleged tyrant danced just like when Trump saw the celebrating Muslims in New Jersey on 9/11! And the opponents of the alleged tyrant were the ones who started the fire. What else (isn't) new?
Lies, lies, lies, lies, lies ...
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Old 10th March 2019, 10:31 AM   #1017
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Glenn Greenwald doesn't have to be asked twice to take the opportunity to nail this down and give credit to the people who exposed it long before the NYT somehow felt the need to jump on: NYT’s Exposé on the Lies About Burning Humanitarian Trucks in Venezuela Shows How US Govt and Media Spread Fake News

Originally Posted by Glenn Greenwald
[...] As it always does – as it always has done from its inception when Wolf Blitzer embedded with U.S. troops – CNN led the way in not just spreading these government lies but independently purporting to vouch for their truth. On February 24, CNN told the world what we all now know is an absolute lie: that “a CNN team saw incendiary devices from police on the Venezuelan side of the border ignite the trucks,” though it generously added that “the network’s journalists are unsure if the trucks were burned on purpose.”

Other media outlets endorsed the lie while at least avoiding what CNN did by personally vouching for it. “Humanitarian aid destined for Venezuela was set on fire, seemingly by troops loyal to Mr Maduro,” The Telegraph claimed. The BBC uncritically printed: “There have also been reports of several aid trucks being burned – something Mr Guaidó said was a violation of the Geneva Convention.”

That lie – supported by incredibly powerful video images – changed everything. Ever since, that Maduro burned trucks filled with humanitarian aid was repeated over and over as proven fact on U.S. news outlets. [...]
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Old 10th March 2019, 12:40 PM   #1018
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Quoted for truth:

Originally Posted by Glenn Greenwald
[...] So everything the New York Times so proudly reported last night has been known for weeks, and was already reported in great detail, using extensive evidence, by a large number of people. But because those people are generally skeptical of the U.S. Government’s claims and critical of its foreign policy, they were ignored and mocked and are generally barred from appearing on television, while the liars from the U.S. Government and their allies in the corporate media were, as usual, given a platform to spread their lies without any challenge or dissent, just like the manual for how to maintain State TV intructs.

Indeed, none of the people questioning the original claim about the burning trucks, or citing this evidence to argue that the U.S. Government and its Venezuelan ally Guaidó were lying, ever made it onto national television to present their dissent. They weren’t allowed on. To the extent they were acknowledged at all, it was to defame them as Maduro apologists – for telling the truth – just as those who tried to combat the propaganda of 2002 and 2003 were smeared as being pro-Saddam. Only Rubio, Bolton, Pompeo, and various other U.S. officials were permitted to spread their lies without any challenge.
[...]
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Old 10th March 2019, 01:41 PM   #1019
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Which highlights the difference between the New York Times and the likes of Mintpress news, the Grayzone, and The Empire Files. The New York Times will go with the evidence, even if they do it late. Those others go with the narrative they want, regardless of the evidence.

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Old 11th March 2019, 01:32 PM   #1020
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Do you remember this one?

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
That it was sabotage by the opposition or the USA or any number of others Maduro considers enemies is always the conspiracy theory.
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Old 11th March 2019, 01:53 PM   #1021
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
If he said something worth hearing you would have just told us what it was.

Without wasting 90 minutes of my time, I can predict he would say exactly what you would say. Or Abbey Martin, Max Blumenthal, Mnar Muhawesh, Caitlin Johnstone or any number of other acolytes of the faith. It's not a worldview that starts with evidence and forms an opinion, it's a worldview that takes every problem then rationalizes how it's really the fault of the USA, Israel, or capitalism.
It's interesting that the "BLame everybody but Maduro and the Venezuelan Government" crowd sound a lot like the "BLame everybody but Donald Trump" crowd in the US.
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Old 11th March 2019, 02:52 PM   #1022
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It's interesting that the "BLame everybody but Maduro and the Venezuelan Government" crowd sound a lot like the "BLame everybody but Donald Trump" crowd in the US.
Yes, very much. And for the same reasons, in both cases you have a cadre of people who want very much for a certain narrative to be true, and they naturally gravitate towards others who share that narrative and echo it uncritically.

Ironically, they think it's Maduro being the bulwark of socialism standing up to the Imperialist USA, but I think the reality is that Guido, if he ends up running Venezuela, will be pretty socialist too. Maduro's problem is less being socialist than it is being incompetent and corrupt.
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Old 11th March 2019, 02:53 PM   #1023
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Do you remember this one?
I sure do.

If you want to comment on it or engage in dialogue, you don't need to jog my memory first. Just jump right in!
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Old 11th March 2019, 03:02 PM   #1024
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Do you remember this one?
Yes, I remember that 100% accurate statement. What about it?
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Old 11th March 2019, 03:09 PM   #1025
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It's interesting that the "BLame everybody but Maduro and the Venezuelan Government" crowd sound a lot like the "BLame everybody but Donald Trump" crowd in the US.
It's the intersection of the two groups I find "interesting".
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Old 11th March 2019, 03:21 PM   #1026
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If this was just failed infrastructure it would have been more spotty and intermittent. But here the total blackout is going on 5 days and there's no water.

It's not like the US doesn't have the ability to hack the power system.

I don't think we can say with certainty whether the US is getting deeper and deeper involved. It is, you know, how the US has gotten into wars since before the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. And Rubio, Bolton and Pence are all involved with announcements about what should happen, as in the socialists must leave and US style capitalism must prevail.

Greenwald: White House Spread False Story About Venezuela Burning Aid Trucks to Win Support for War
Quote:
An investigation by The New York Times has found that several trucks carrying so-called humanitarian aid that were set ablaze during a showdown at the Colombia-Venezuela border last month were not caused by President Nicolás Maduro’s forces, as was widely reported at the time by the media and Trump administration officials. We speak with Glenn Greenwald, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of The Intercept. His latest piece is “NYT’s Exposé on the Lies About Burning Aid Trucks in Venezuela Shows How U.S. Government and Media Spread Pro-War Propaganda.
This is one time I might say the truth is probably in the middle. To just condemn Maduro when we know the US has taken actions that worked against both him and Chavez feels manipulated.

Be sure to let your legislators know you don't like this pre-war activity the US seems to be moving with. Even for the right-wingers here, surely they don't want to see Steve Miller and John Bolton get us into yet another war.
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Old 11th March 2019, 05:02 PM   #1027
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Compare the NYT headline with Glenn Greenwald's take on it.

The NYT headline: "Footage Contradicts US Claim that Nicolás Maduro Burned Aid Convoy"

Pretty straightforward. Objective.

Glenn Greenwald: "NYT’s Exposé on the Lies About Burning Aid Trucks in Venezuela Shows How U.S. Government and Media Spread Pro-War Propaganda"

OMG!!! An exposé about lies and government/media collusion to spread pro-war propaganda!!1!

A realistic review of the NYT article shows that the fire was most likely started accidently. That is to say that guy who threw the molotov coctail didn't intend for the rag to separate and set the truck ablaze. It was neither Maduro forces nor opposition forces trying to do anything, it was just an accident.

That the overal media went with Maduro supporters setting the trucks on fire are more likely guilty of just being wrong than they are of colluding to spread war propaganda. It's not very likely that even the people who were at that demonstration came away with a clear understanding of what happened. The difference between "Maduro set the trucks on fire!" and "Maduro blockaded the trucks from entering" is moot from the point of view of people who could have benefited from that aid, only the fire made for a better graphic.
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Old 11th March 2019, 05:25 PM   #1028
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
If this was just failed infrastructure it would have been more spotty and intermittent. But here the total blackout is going on 5 days and there's no water.

It's not like the US doesn't have the ability to hack the power system.
It's possible the US hacked the Venezuela power grid.

It's possible in the sense that it can't be ruled out. If a Venezuelan engineer inspects damage and finds a different cause, we're not likely to ever know about it. In a similar vein, I predict the Maduro government will never produce information about whatever hack was used (allegedly) to damage the system.

The corruption, diversion of resources and the deferred maintenance of the Venezuelan power grid is a known factor that's been reported on for years. I was reading an article earlier today that described other major outages within the past several years, but of course I can’t find that article now. I did find another article from 2013:

https://www.americasquarterly.org/co...ricity-deficit

I also found this article from a website that won me over with one of their slogans, ”Are you tired of having Venezuela Marxplained to you?”

https://www.caracaschronicles.com/20...nd-ideologies/

This issue really should be about people who are suffering and need help and not a contest of ideologies. It’s fine with me if Venezuela wants to spend its oil money on social programs, but the corruption and mismanagement needs to stop. That won’t happen as long as Maduro is in charge.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:07 PM   #1029
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Compare the NYT headline with Glenn Greenwald's take on it.

The NYT headline: "Footage Contradicts US Claim that Nicolás Maduro Burned Aid Convoy"

Pretty straightforward. Objective.

Glenn Greenwald: "NYT’s Exposé on the Lies About Burning Aid Trucks in Venezuela Shows How U.S. Government and Media Spread Pro-War Propaganda"

OMG!!! An exposé about lies and government/media collusion to spread pro-war propaganda!!1!

A realistic review of the NYT article shows that the fire was most likely started accidently. That is to say that guy who threw the molotov coctail didn't intend for the rag to separate and set the truck ablaze. It was neither Maduro forces nor opposition forces trying to do anything, it was just an accident.

That the overal media went with Maduro supporters setting the trucks on fire are more likely guilty of just being wrong than they are of colluding to spread war propaganda. It's not very likely that even the people who were at that demonstration came away with a clear understanding of what happened. The difference between "Maduro set the trucks on fire!" and "Maduro blockaded the trucks from entering" is moot from the point of view of people who could have benefited from that aid, only the fire made for a better graphic.
I am not able to determine how the fire started and I believe I said so in my post. But either one of those versions could be closer to the truth than the other. Just because you don't like the idea the US is moving toward military intervention in Venezuela doesn't mean the headline which downplays that is more "objective". It depends on the related evidence for Greenwald's version.

Who are you calling the "overall media" and why would they conclude Maduro supporters did it?

I can see supporters of both sides spreading the story the other guy did it. It's not uncommon for news to follow that pattern in many countries and we are not exempt from it either.

But you also can't dismiss the US's long history of manipulating the news like this. Nor can you dismiss the US using false reports like WMDs and the Gulf of Tonkin attack to make the public better accept the US entering a war. In addition, the US has intervened and supported dictators to the general population's detriment all over Central and South America. And then there is Bolton who has professed this kind of US imperialism for decades. And he's involved.


I appreciate your observations and I am not dismissing them. I'll take a second look at the two stories.
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Old 11th March 2019, 06:45 PM   #1030
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
It's possible the US hacked the Venezuela power grid.

It's possible in the sense that it can't be ruled out. If a Venezuelan engineer inspects damage and finds a different cause, we're not likely to ever know about it. In a similar vein, I predict the Maduro government will never produce information about whatever hack was used (allegedly) to damage the system.

The corruption, diversion of resources and the deferred maintenance of the Venezuelan power grid is a known factor that's been reported on for years. I was reading an article earlier today that described other major outages within the past several years, but of course I can’t find that article now. I did find another article from 2013:

https://www.americasquarterly.org/co...ricity-deficit

I also found this article from a website that won me over with one of their slogans, ”Are you tired of having Venezuela Marxplained to you?”

https://www.caracaschronicles.com/20...nd-ideologies/

This issue really should be about people who are suffering and need help and not a contest of ideologies. It’s fine with me if Venezuela wants to spend its oil money on social programs, but the corruption and mismanagement needs to stop. That won’t happen as long as Maduro is in charge.
I like the Marxplained comment. The question I have is how did Chavez come to power if the country was going as well as the Caracas Chronicles described?

I have a bias against the decades of US intervention in Central and South America because I saw a couple of those dictatorships first hand.

On the other hand, sadly, corruption is ingrained in the Latina/o culture and it needs massive social change to ever change. So it doesn't surprise me Maduro is corrupt and Chavez was as well.

But I'd be shocked if the US isn't backing a regime that will be just as corrupt.

Anyway, needs a bit of time to sort this out.
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Old 12th March 2019, 01:32 AM   #1031
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There’s a seemingly sincere Venezuelian on reddit posting about the current situation there. FWIW, he feels this is reliable information: https://mobile.twitter.com/AKurmanae...61409731960832

I’m not claiming it is or it isn’t, but his comments have been interesting.
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Old 12th March 2019, 05:07 AM   #1032
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I am not able to determine how the fire started and I believe I said so in my post. But either one of those versions could be closer to the truth than the other.
The New York Times shows a video of a guy throwing a couple of molotov coctails. When he throws the second one, the rag separates from the bottle, and the truck fire originates from where that burning rag landed. If you haven't yet watched the video, it's pretty obvious.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Just because you don't like the idea the US is moving toward military intervention in Venezuela doesn't mean the headline which downplays that is more "objective".
Yes, and that goes both ways. If you want to prove the US is planning military intervention, then where we're putting our troops will be more indicative than what's said about Maduro.


Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It depends on the related evidence for Greenwald's
version.[/quote]

There is no related evidence for Greenwald's version. His story is commentary on the New York Times article with his own editorializing added.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Who are you calling the "overall media" and why would they conclude Maduro supporters did it?
You know, the "Media" that Childlike Empress calls "pre$$titutes" and that Trumpers call "fake news". In this case media that isn't Mintpress news, the Grayzone, The Empire Files, RT, or Democracy Now.
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Old 12th March 2019, 07:40 AM   #1033
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
You know, the "Media" that Childlike Empress calls "pre$$titutes" and that Trumpers call "fake news". In this case media that isn't Mintpress news, the Grayzone, The Empire Files, RT, or Democracy Now.

You mean media like the the New York Times?! No, I can't believe that they would ever publish false rumors unless they'd been innocently and maybe a little naïvely fooled by a doctored Columbian video ...

Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of U.S. Embassy Workers (NYT, Sep. 1, 2018)
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Old 12th March 2019, 09:06 AM   #1034
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
"Consumers soon found themselves short of candles, since the power outage had closed stores as well."

Apparently that joke-except-it's-real about socialism, candles and electricity has a sequel.
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Old 12th March 2019, 09:42 AM   #1035
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I can actually believe the US is helping things along and manipulating some aspects of this situation.

But the big picture remains that Chaves did not diversify the economy, fired all the competent people from the state oil company, the oil markets turned against Venezuela in a bad way, the government imposed price controls and destroyed the economy further etc etc etc.

I've seen footage of Venezuela's electricity masts catching fire a year ago. The infrastructure is crumbling and has reached a breaking point leading to systemic failure. It was inevitable that we would reach this stage and no outside actors are needed to explain the situation.
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Old 12th March 2019, 10:28 AM   #1036
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The next stinky little propaganda lie in the making is that Pompeo "decided" to "withdraw" US diplomatic staff because of the "deteriorating situation". Truth is, Arreaza kicked them out like it was announced over a month ago. What a bunch of pathetic yet evil clowns.

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Old 12th March 2019, 11:02 AM   #1037
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
I've seen footage of Venezuela's electricity masts catching fire a year ago. The infrastructure is crumbling and has reached a breaking point leading to systemic failure. It was inevitable that we would reach this stage and no outside actors are needed to explain the situation.
The real enemy of socialism isn't capitalist pigs, hoarders, wreckers, or even the United States. The real enemy that socialism can never defeat but will always and inevitably fall to, is entropy.
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Old 12th March 2019, 11:05 AM   #1038
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Expelling the diplomatic corps of the largest democracy in your hemisphere is certainly a type of "deteriorating situation."
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Old 12th March 2019, 11:38 AM   #1039
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
You mean media like the the New York Times?! No, I can't believe that they would ever publish false rumors unless they'd been innocently and maybe a little naïvely fooled by a doctored Columbian video ...

Microwave Weapons Are Prime Suspect in Ills of U.S. Embassy Workers (NYT, Sep. 1, 2018)
I'm trying to fathom what your point is, but I can't. The article you cite isn't publishing a rumor as fact. It's reporting real instances of embassy workers experiencing real symptoms, and a leading theory of what might cause it. Scientists agree it's theoretically possible, research has been done along similar lines in the past, but nobody concludes that these symptoms are the result of an unconventional weapon. They name it as the “prime suspect” because they don’t have any better ideas.

Also, it was never used as a pretext for war with Cuba.
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Old 12th March 2019, 12:14 PM   #1040
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Expelling the diplomatic corps of the largest democracy in your hemisphere is certainly a type of "deteriorating situation."

Yet if you are kicked out but pretend to "decide" to "withdraw" you are lying, like the bully who finally got expelled from the playground will do to his mom.
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