Why did the Truth Movement fail ?

It was not a failure. It succeeded fairly well in separating some fools from their money. Richard Gage appears to have secured his financial future, David Ray Griffin made a decent bundle in retirement. Alex Jones pays his ex-wife $43,000 in alimony. Every month.

If your question is why didn't it succeed in changing everybody's mind about what really happened on 9-11, there are three main factors:

1. Obama's election.

2. The end of the Iraq war and the shift to the back burner of the Afghanistan war.

3. The "Truth" Movement constructed an elaborate Potemkin Village out of tissue paper which blew away the first time any wind hit it. I'd like to say that debunking was a challenge, but to be honest it was like playing tee-ball against a bunch of toddlers.
 
I think we also have to consider the behaviour of truthers themselves. The way that the truthers I have encountered, both here and on Facebook, present their arguments only serves to alienate the unconvinced. Requests for evidence are met with evasion or insult; disagreement is met with derision, accusations of imbecility, docility or membership of some government agency, and there is a breathtaking level of ignorance of the facts, coupled with an almost complete absence of expertise in any relevant field, which nonetheless does not prevent an attitude of sneering superiority. Quite why they think this will convince anyone to join their cause is beyond me.
Truthers have only themselves to blame for the failure of their "movement".
 
Last edited:
lingdatang2 said:
I've been following the truth movement since 2004 and no longer believe in it.
Click to expand...

What did it finally take for you to break away and when?

As a former Global Warming denier I can say it was looking into 9/11 that got me out. I saw the truthers making the same phony arguments I was and that lead to self reflection.
 
Truth movement failed because its arguments were full of holes. Only people who wanted to believe that the USG or some powerful interest pulled it off and blamed it on crazy Arabs so they could start wars and cash out. They believe everything gov and media say is a lie. So their default is the official story is nothing but a cover up.

Very simply.... there is no there... there.
 
Strangely, though, truthers never seem to question anything produced by their own, favoured media outlets.
RT, PressTV, even Infowars, when Jones has admitted he's making it up, are accepted at face value.
Funny, that. :rolleyes:
 
Recently most of the truther loons have morphed into Flat earth/Moon landing Hoaxers

With the upcoming 50 anniversary of Apollo moon landings watch for a tidal wave of ignorant crap about how never landed on moon Why its impossible to go to moon -
ie Van Allen Radiation belts, temperature of space frying everything and space suits wont work in space because - wait for it - air conditioning doesn't work in space …...
 
The 9/11 Truth Movement failed because the genuine truth seekers who were around in the early days, genuinely looking for answers to as yet unanswered questions gradually moved on once they got those answers. This allowed the movement to be taken over by conspiracy believers who welded a political agenda to patently false technical claims.
 
Mark F said:
The 9/11 Truth Movement failed because the genuine truth seekers who were around in the early days, genuinely looking for answers to as yet unanswered questions gradually moved on once they got those answers. This allowed the movement to be taken over by conspiracy believers who welded a political agenda to patently false technical claims.
Click to expand...
As njslim alluded to, I believe many of them are just being contrarian. If they truly believe it's not because they've been swayed by whatever source they're quoting today - they start out with the belief that The Government\The Man\Science is wrong and cherry pick whatever backs them up, no matter how tenuous or inappropriate.
 
Mark F said:
The 9/11 Truth Movement failed because the genuine truth seekers who were around in the early days, genuinely looking for answers to as yet unanswered questions gradually moved on once they got those answers. This allowed the movement to be taken over by conspiracy believers who welded a political agenda to patently false technical claims.
Click to expand...

If left all the willfully ignorant people who truly are not interested in understanding the 3 collapses.
 
It failed because the country, from the economy to money supply to even the military, is essentially controlled by the rich.
 
Axxman300 said:
My guess is that you don't know any rich people. If you did you'd understand who Cantor Fitzgerald was, and why this concept is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Cantor Fitzgerald does not make up the wealthy in the U.S. but is only part of it.
 
Last edited:
ralfyman said:
It failed because the country, from the economy to money supply to even the military, is essentially controlled by the rich.
Click to expand...
Thar fails to explain why and how the Truth Movement failed. I think you need to fill in your several steps of thought between "The rich control the economy" to "TM failed. That's of course assuming there was any thinking behind your post; I could be mistaken.
 
ralfyman said:
Cantor Fitzgerald does not make up the wealthy in the U.S. but is only part of it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for proving my point.

Cantor Fitzgerald moved billions of dollars in bonds each year. Their clients are the .01%, and many of them knew their traders on a personal level. You don't kill a major chunk of Cantor Fitzgerald personnel without consequences. Some of their clients were Saudis, and those Saudis cleaned house in the 18 months after the attacks. Private investigators were hired to look into the allegations of an inside job, and found nothing.

It was the Cantor Fitzgerald clientele who twisted the Bush Administration's arm into forming the 9-11 Commission.

In the end we found that the FBI and CIA screwed up while Al Qaeda did not.

In the years since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, a war the 9-11 Truthers felt was proof of an inside job, most Americans have come to realize that the Bush Administration used 9-11 to justify the invasion on faulty allegations, and that 75% of Americans didn't care at the time of the invasion. In the days after 9-11, Americans wanted blood, and we didn't care whose blood. Any Arab country that so much as looked at us sideways was going to get crushed, and Iraq was considered unfinished business by most Americans.

The "Truth" is that America - willingly - sold its soul in the name of blind vengeance, and today we're waking up to the fact that this truth is so much worse than phantom demolition teams in NYC.
 
ralfyman said:
It failed because the country, from the economy to money supply to even the military, is essentially controlled by the rich.
Click to expand...

What? Are you still a CD truther, or what? Last time you made false claims about 9/11 investigations due to failed research. However, this is indicative of of why 9/11 "truth" failed.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
And less wealthy people have been unable to provide a single shred of credible evidence for an inside job because.....

Over to you, ralfyman.
Click to expand...

Of course, because most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.
 
Oystein said:
Thar fails to explain why and how the Truth Movement failed. I think you need to fill in your several steps of thought between "The rich control the economy" to "TM failed. That's of course assuming there was any thinking behind your post; I could be mistaken.
Click to expand...

One may have to look at what happened after the attack, i.e., the so-called "war on terror" where the government used the event to justify an attack on Iraq and Afghanistan while ignoring Saudi Arabia. The irony is that the first response to my post referred to a firm that ironically sued KSA for funding the Al Qaeda. The next irony is that the suit was dismissed.
 
Axxman300 said:
Thanks for proving my point.

Cantor Fitzgerald moved billions of dollars in bonds each year. Their clients are the .01%, and many of them knew their traders on a personal level. You don't kill a major chunk of Cantor Fitzgerald personnel without consequences. Some of their clients were Saudis, and those Saudis cleaned house in the 18 months after the attacks. Private investigators were hired to look into the allegations of an inside job, and found nothing.

It was the Cantor Fitzgerald clientele who twisted the Bush Administration's arm into forming the 9-11 Commission.

In the end we found that the FBI and CIA screwed up while Al Qaeda did not.

In the years since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, a war the 9-11 Truthers felt was proof of an inside job, most Americans have come to realize that the Bush Administration used 9-11 to justify the invasion on faulty allegations, and that 75% of Americans didn't care at the time of the invasion. In the days after 9-11, Americans wanted blood, and we didn't care whose blood. Any Arab country that so much as looked at us sideways was going to get crushed, and Iraq was considered unfinished business by most Americans.

The "Truth" is that America - willingly - sold its soul in the name of blind vengeance, and today we're waking up to the fact that this truth is so much worse than phantom demolition teams in NYC.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the same Saudi Arabia that the government ignored while it eagerly called for an attack on Iraq and Afghanistan, and the same KSA that the firm sued because it claimed that the country funded Al Qaeda. Not surprisingly, the suit was eventually dropped. Gee, I wonder why.

Meanwhile, you were obsessing over Cantor, you skipped the news about unusual stock movement before the attack, for which authorities gave no comment, the tons of debris that were conveniently sold of as scrap for no valid reason, the same Commission that resorted to simulations and videos in its "investigation." And how many people were eventually hauled to court for that crime?

So, why was the KSA, a military ally of the U.S., funding the Al Qaeda (assuming that Cantor is right)? Didn't Al Qaeda stem from the same terror groups that were recruited by KSA, funded by the U.S., and trained by Pakistan? Wasn't Bin Laden, one of its leaders, from a family that was very close to the Bush family of Texas, and profited from U.S. base construction in KSA?

As time goes, more dirt about this tragedy shows up.
 
beachnut said:
What? Are you still a CD truther, or what? Last time you made false claims about 9/11 investigations due to failed research. However, this is indicative of of why 9/11 "truth" failed.
Click to expand...

I gave no false claims. FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
 
ralfyman said:
I gave no false claims. FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
Click to expand...

So tell me more about FEMA, which is apparently not part of the government.
 
ralfyman said:
I gave no false claims. FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
Click to expand...

Please quote these reports, and explain how it was that this physical evidence was not destroyed, as you previously claimed it had been.
 
ralfyman said:
Meanwhile, you were obsessing over Cantor, you skipped the news about unusual stock movement before the attack, for which authorities gave no comment,
Click to expand...

False. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/put-paid/
ralfyman said:
the tons of debris that were conveniently sold of as scrap for no valid reason,
Click to expand...

After it had been examined thoroughly. Why do people usually sell things, ralfyman?
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.p...ce_from_Ground_Zero_at_the_World_Trade_Center

ralfyman said:
the same Commission that resorted to simulations and videos in its "investigation."
Click to expand...

What videos and simulations did the 9/11 Commission use, ralfyman?


ralfyman said:
And how many people were eventually hauled to court for that crime?
Click to expand...

How many of the dead hijackers would you like to have put on trial?


ralfyman said:
So, why was the KSA, a military ally of the U.S., funding the Al Qaeda (assuming that Cantor is right)?
Click to expand...

Why do you think?

ralfyman said:
Didn't Al Qaeda stem from the same terror groups that were recruited by KSA, funded by the U.S., and trained by Pakistan?
Click to expand...

Yes and no- which you would have known had you done any serious research into this. Al Qaeda was initially set up and funded by the Saudi and Kuwaiti governments to fight the Russians. Later it went rogue. It was never funded by the US.

ralfyman said:
Wasn't Bin Laden, one of its leaders, from a family that was very close to the Bush family of Texas, and profited from U.S. base construction in KSA?
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the relatives of criminals should also be treated as criminals? If not, what are you saying?


ralfyman said:
As time goes, more dirt about this tragedy shows up.
Click to expand...

Not really, Anyone who has done a modicum of basic research will have known about this for years. Have you been busy elsewhere?
 
Mongrel said:
As njslim alluded to, I believe many of them are just being contrarian. If they truly believe it's not because they've been swayed by whatever source they're quoting today - they start out with the belief that The Government\The Man\Science is wrong and cherry pick whatever backs them up, no matter how tenuous or inappropriate.
Click to expand...

For most 9/11 conspiracy believers remaining today the theme seems to be anything but planes. They absolutely have to reject out of hand any theory that planes could have done the damage they did, or, in many cases that planes were even used. Pure contrarianism.
 
Mark F said:
The 9/11 Truth Movement failed because the genuine truth seekers who were around in the early days, genuinely looking for answers to as yet unanswered questions gradually moved on once they got those answers. This allowed the movement to be taken over by conspiracy believers who welded a political agenda to patently false technical claims.
Click to expand...

You give the remainders way too much credit. This is the truth movement :

1- mostly activists that still want Bush tried for war crimes or perhaps some other cause, and like any typical activist, are willing to tell any lie cuz they truly believe in their cause. Tony fits in this category, IMHO

2- trolls. Don’t believe in what they’re saying. Just want to stir the pot. They are addicted to the endorphin rush that they get when they get a response. But like any addict, they develop a resistance to it and so need bigger and bigger responses to feed the addiction.

3- there’s a few that truly believe. They are mental and need intervention
 
ralfyman said:
Yes, that's the same Saudi Arabia that the government ignored while it eagerly called for an attack on Iraq and Afghanistan, and the same KSA that the firm sued because it claimed that the country funded Al Qaeda. Not surprisingly, the suit was eventually dropped. Gee, I wonder why.
Click to expand...

It wasn't the Saudi Government, just Saudis, individual people with money.

We invaded Afghanistan because that is where Al Qaeda and bin Laden where hiding out. Nobody in August, 2001 wanted to invade Afghanistan.

No winnable lawsuit has ever been dropped in the history of lawyers.

Have you spent much time in the real world?

Meanwhile, you were obsessing over Cantor, you skipped the news about unusual stock movement before the attack, for which authorities gave no comment,
Click to expand...

Oh, you must be new. This is a lie, it was proven to be a lie. The authorities did comment, they said there was nothing sinister. Just another 9-11 urban legend.

the tons of debris that were conveniently sold of as scrap for no valid reason, the same Commission that resorted to simulations and videos in its "investigation."
Click to expand...

We knew the cause of the collapse on 9-11-2001. Two commercial aircraft crashed into each building, the resulting structural damage coupled with fire brought them down.

There were over 70 floors of steel not relevant to the investigation.

And yes, the Commission resorted to video and simulations because building life-size replicas of the Twin Towers would be stupid.

And how many people were eventually hauled to court for that crime?
Click to expand...

The surviving conspirators are still at Guantanamo Bay.

So, why was the KSA, a military ally of the U.S., funding the Al Qaeda (assuming that Cantor is right)?
Click to expand...

It wasn't.

Didn't Al Qaeda stem from the same terror groups that were recruited by KSA, funded by the U.S., and trained by Pakistan?
Click to expand...

No. Al Qaeda wanted nothing to do with the Great Satan.

Wasn't Bin Laden, one of its leaders, from a family that was very close to the Bush family of Texas, and profited from U.S. base construction in KSA?
Click to expand...

The bin Ladens were not close to the Bush family.

There are 600 members of the bin Laden family. Osama bin Laden had 22 brothers and sisters.

The Saudi Binladin Group (SBG) was founded in 1931, and is one of the go-to construction firms in the entire Middle East. There is no record of them building the USAF annex at the Saudi AF base, but even if they did so what? Contracting for construction in a foreign country is a headache, and using a company like SBG is the smart choice even today.


As time goes, more dirt about this tragedy shows up
Click to expand...

The evidence shows the opposite. 19 Al Qaeda terrorists hijacked four commercial jetliners and flew them into the WTC, and Pentagon. The last plane crashed as the passengers staged an uprising. The plot may have been uncovered if it were not for FBI and CIA in-fighting. After the attacks the US asked the Taliban to hand over bin Laden and his fellow Al Qaeda members, and they refused, so we invaded. Later the Bush Administration used the attacks of 9-11 to justify an invasion of Iraq.

These are the unassailable facts of 9-11.
 
Nice lady who lived across the hall from me (since has moved) lost 2 of her sons who worked at Cantor- Fitzgerald

Her son-in-law, a federal prosecutor in NJ, was a counsel to the 9/11 Commission
 
Seymour Butz said:
You give the remainders way too much credit. This is the truth movement :

1- mostly activists that still want Bush tried for war crimes or perhaps some other cause, and like any typical activist, are willing to tell any lie cuz they truly believe in their cause. Tony fits in this category, IMHO

2- trolls. Don’t believe in what they’re saying. Just want to stir the pot. They are addicted to the endorphin rush that they get when they get a response. But like any addict, they develop a resistance to it and so need bigger and bigger responses to feed the addiction.

3- there’s a few that truly believe. They are mental and need intervention
Click to expand...

Troll's, POE's and the hopelessly unreachable.
 
Axxman300 said:
It wasn't the Saudi Government, just Saudis, individual people with money.

We invaded Afghanistan because that is where Al Qaeda and bin Laden where hiding out. Nobody in August, 2001 wanted to invade Afghanistan.

No winnable lawsuit has ever been dropped in the history of lawyers.

Have you spent much time in the real world?



Oh, you must be new. This is a lie, it was proven to be a lie. The authorities did comment, they said there was nothing sinister. Just another 9-11 urban legend.



We knew the cause of the collapse on 9-11-2001. Two commercial aircraft crashed into each building, the resulting structural damage coupled with fire brought them down.

There were over 70 floors of steel not relevant to the investigation.

And yes, the Commission resorted to video and simulations because building life-size replicas of the Twin Towers would be stupid.



The surviving conspirators are still at Guantanamo Bay.



It wasn't.



No. Al Qaeda wanted nothing to do with the Great Satan.



The bin Ladens were not close to the Bush family.

There are 600 members of the bin Laden family. Osama bin Laden had 22 brothers and sisters.

The Saudi Binladin Group (SBG) was founded in 1931, and is one of the go-to construction firms in the entire Middle East. There is no record of them building the USAF annex at the Saudi AF base, but even if they did so what? Contracting for construction in a foreign country is a headache, and using a company like SBG is the smart choice even today.




The evidence shows the opposite. 19 Al Qaeda terrorists hijacked four commercial jetliners and flew them into the WTC, and Pentagon. The last plane crashed as the passengers staged an uprising. The plot may have been uncovered if it were not for FBI and CIA in-fighting. After the attacks the US asked the Taliban to hand over bin Laden and his fellow Al Qaeda members, and they refused, so we invaded. Later the Bush Administration used the attacks of 9-11 to justify an invasion of Iraq.

These are the unassailable facts of 9-11.
Click to expand...

With all the legal wrangling, they will probably DIE in Gitmo.
 
classic, this is why 9/11 truth failed -

ralfyman said:
I gave no false claims. FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
Click to expand...

Which evidence used to solve who did the crime of 9/11 was destroyed? Do you have a list?

You did make false claims about 9/11 in the past - can you find them? If not, that is the same reason 9/11 truth failed.
 
Last edited:
ralfyman said:
I gave no false claims. FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
Click to expand...

Are the remains of the twin towers to remain, in a spot that is guarded to prevent tampering, forever?

Only skeptics continue to fly in the face of evidence that does not support reality, but their misguided beliefs. JFK, Apollo, chemtrails come to mind immediately probably more if I continue to think about it.
 
Axxman300 said:
And yes, the Commission resorted to video and simulations because building life-size replicas of the Twin Towers would be stupid.
Click to expand...

This should say the NIST used simulations. (thanks, Cosmic Yak)

When the 9-11 Commission was doing its job the 9-11 Truth morons didn't really exist, so they didn't feel the need to explain the obvious.:blush:
 
Last edited:
ralfyman said:
It failed because the country, from the economy to money supply to even the military, is essentially controlled by the rich.
Click to expand...

What does one have to do with the other?

FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.
Click to expand...

What does that even mean? The WTC steel? What evidence do you think it shows? Magical thermite?

Stop living in fantasyland.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
Click to expand...

And only ideologues think anyone who disagrees with them is either a fool, or in on the conspiracy.

Did you consider that perhaps people accept what the government said because it was supported by evidence you don't understand?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom