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Tags donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 13th March 2019, 10:17 AM   #1441
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
A public conference in Washington details:
....
It will also be live-streamed.
https://dangerouscase.org/wp-content...19_Finalsm.pdf
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:51 PM   #1442
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
...which is typical of Dementia.
Which is not mutually exclusive. We've discussed this at length upthread. His vocabulary was noted to have diminished considerably over the years. NPD doesn't do that. He is incapable of admitting so much as misspeaking. Dementia doesn't usually do that.
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Old 13th March 2019, 12:52 PM   #1443
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You were asking about "armchair psychology" before. See above.
I was asking?

Is this another post that tries to shift the argument to me as if I'm the only one who believes the evidence is overwhelming?
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:00 PM   #1444
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Not at all what I said.What he have is evidence that Trump is not a very good President. There is zero evidence that he is “dangerously mentally ill.”

I will admit it as soon as you present it. All you have to do is present some professional and accepted methodology for analyzing public appearances, tweets, sound bites, etc to arrive at a valid and accurate diagnosis. I’ll wait.

And all you have is,

“There are standards”
“Ok, show them.”
Can’t show them, go back to to asserting that they and you are experts and I wouldn’t get it or something.

No. It’s the only valid opinion anyone who hasn’t met Trump and personally evaluated him can have.

Evidence-based? Ha! Evidenced-based has a professional meaning, as I’m sure you know, and analyzing people you’ve never met has absolutely no evidenced-based guidelines. Puhleeese, indeed.

I can’t articulate it any better than this: Any professional who does not follow professional standards has no basis to form a professional opinion. Punto.
Riiight, there's not overwhelming evidence Trump has NPD.

So back to your position which is about whatever is convenient: Huffing and puffing that you know better than some of the top psych experts in the country because you read a couple position papers on the internet.

You are back to claiming no one could possibly diagnose Trump based on publicly available information yet you cannot say what more is needed that an in-person eval would provide.
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:04 PM   #1445
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
A public conference in Washington details:

Amazon new book edition release details:
And you think putting your professional opinion in a book automatically negates your credibility?

Have you considered that putting your professional opinion out there in print opens it up to peer review in the form of book reviews?
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:07 PM   #1446
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Ten speakers.

I'm going to watch if I can.
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Old 13th March 2019, 01:08 PM   #1447
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Have you considered that putting your professional opinion out there in print opens it up to peer review in the form of book reviews?
Haha oh wow.
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Old 13th March 2019, 02:21 PM   #1448
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Which is not mutually exclusive. We've discussed this at length upthread. His vocabulary was noted to have diminished considerably over the years. NPD doesn't do that. He is incapable of admitting so much as misspeaking. Dementia doesn't usually do that.
Dementia probably makes it harder to hide how abnormal his mental health is though.
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Old 13th March 2019, 02:43 PM   #1449
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Haha oh wow.
Why the sneer? 37 shrinks are expressing their professional views to the world. Every shrink who disagrees with them is free to say why they're wrong. But they'll have to be specific. Just "Hush your mouth!" won't be persuasive.
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Old 13th March 2019, 02:56 PM   #1450
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Anyone who has ever read the reviews on Amazon can see how unlike "peer review" they can be.
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Old 13th March 2019, 03:02 PM   #1451
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why the sneer? 37 shrinks are expressing their professional views to the world. Every shrink who disagrees with them is free to say why they're wrong. But they'll have to be specific. Just "Hush your mouth!" won't be persuasive.
Please tell me more about how publishing a book for laypeople has the same credibility as publishing an article in a peer-reviewed journal.
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Old 13th March 2019, 03:23 PM   #1452
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Anyone who has ever read the reviews on Amazon can see how unlike "peer review" they can be.
How many reviews of non-fiction books have you looked at? You want to read the dissent, just go straight to the 1 star reviews. I assure you, you will find professional criticism of the content (along with all the mindless Trumper criticisms).
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Old 13th March 2019, 03:30 PM   #1453
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Please tell me more about how publishing a book for laypeople has the same credibility as publishing an article in a peer-reviewed journal.
Peer review is a process in which a few editors or referees decide whether a journal should publish an article, often according to pretty narrow criteria. These people are putting their articles and arguments in front of the entire world where everyone can assess, challenge and respond to them. The latter is a far greater professional risk. And they are deliberately speaking to the general public because the whole world is affected by the Trump presidency.
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Old 13th March 2019, 03:43 PM   #1454
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Please tell me more about how publishing a book for laypeople has the same credibility as publishing an article in a peer-reviewed journal.
What makes you think a research model applies here?

There is at least one other in this thread who doesn't understand applying medical research results in making a clinical diagnosis is not the same as doing medical research.

That's one of those Dunning Kruger things, tossing out inappropriate words like methodologies without understanding one has a procedure or protocols to use in clinical practice.

You don't test a diagnostic methodology on each specific patient interaction.


What is with the Trump supporters here using ad hominem attacks on the professionals that see Trump's NPD and have said so? It's not like the diagnosis is a close call or a tricky one to make.
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Old 13th March 2019, 03:56 PM   #1455
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Amazon Reviews: Who needs peer reviewed journals any more?

But to indulge SGs viewpoint on this, here is a peer review from the Amazon Journal of Psychiatry for you to consider about this ďscholarly tome,Ē (the quotes are to denote sarcasm, not a quote of any post). It addresses her arguments here quite well.

Quote:
As a psychiatrist, forensic work required grueling interviews, extensive reading history from collaterals, formalized testing to validate any diagnosis, a rigorous physical exam often with neurologic testing. None of that is demonstrated here- if this was presented at a forensic hearing, the judge would not hesitate to reject the conclusion and possibly sanction the psychiatrist involved. There should be academic repercussions against persons involved.
Carl Davidson, MD
I scrolled through some of the 5 star reviews but couldnít find any from professionals.




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Old 13th March 2019, 04:13 PM   #1456
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Amazon Reviews: Who needs peer reviewed journals any more?

But to indulge SGs viewpoint on this, here is a peer review from the Amazon Journal of Psychiatry for you to consider about this ďscholarly tome,Ē (the quotes are to denote sarcasm, not a quote of any post). It addresses her arguments here quite well.

I scrolled through some of the 5 star reviews but couldnít find any from professionals.
There's no link, your comparison makes little sense without some context.
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:18 PM   #1457
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There's no link, your comparison makes little sense without some context.
I don't think it's a comparison. I think he's citing an actual Amazon review of Lee's book.
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Old 13th March 2019, 04:41 PM   #1458
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What makes you think a research model applies here?
There are peer reviewed journals for practitioners; it isnít all research.

Quote:
There is at least one other in this thread who doesn't understand applying medical research results in making a clinical diagnosis is not the same as doing medical research.
And there is at least one person in this thread (SG...Iím naming names!) who doesnít understand that there are medical journals specifically for promulgating clinical guidelines.

Quote:
That's one of those Dunning Kruger things, tossing out inappropriate words like methodologies without understanding one has a procedure or protocols to use in clinical practice.
And those procedures and protocols are found where? Do you just make them up as you go? I donít think so.

Quote:
You don't test a diagnostic methodology on each specific patient interaction.
Strawman. practitioners use established procedures and protocols that are appropriate to each patientís clinical presentation. They donít just make stuff up.


Quote:
What is with the Trump supporters here using ad hominem attacks on the professionals that see Trump's NPD and have said so? It's not like the diagnosis is a close call or a tricky one to make.
Well poisoning. Iím not a Trump supporter. And itís not an ad hominem attack to point out the fact that the professionals are acting unprofessionally by violating the ethical code of their profession. That isnít a close call or tricky either.


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Old 13th March 2019, 05:23 PM   #1459
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
There are peer reviewed journals for practitioners; it isnít all research.
Do you not understand the problem? You are conflating research and clinical practice. I didn't say practitioners didn't contribute to research, how absurd!

Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
And there is at least one person in this thread (SG...Iím naming names!) who doesnít understand that there are medical journals specifically for promulgating clinical guidelines.

And those procedures and protocols are found where? Do you just make them up as you go? I donít think so.
You have made no effort in this whole thread to learn from anyone. You just don't get it.

Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Strawman. practitioners use established procedures and protocols that are appropriate to each patientís clinical presentation. They donít just make stuff up.
Yes, and they have concluded Trump has NPD. You keep insisting anything those professionals do that doesn't agree with your limited knowledge of clinical practice needs to have a research paper trail. That's not how it works!
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Old 13th March 2019, 05:51 PM   #1460
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I have serious objections to calling Trump a narcissist. The word comes from the myth of a young man of extraordinary beauty. I just can't associate Trump with that. Narcissus was gorgeous in a culture that really knew how to evaluate male beauty. Trump is a garbage bag stuffed with rotting yams. If the myth doesn't fit you must acquit!

There's an Egyptian myth about a beetle pushing the largest ball of dung to ever exist. Perhaps Trump has Khepric Personality Disorder. He loves himself because he's attracted to excrement in enormous quantities.
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:14 PM   #1461
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There's no link, your comparison makes little sense without some context.

Comparison?

Itís a review from the newly minted Amazon Journal of Psychiatry. Itís one of the one star reviews but Iím on mobile so itís hard for me to link from the Amazon app.

I just did exactly what you suggested, and luckily the only ďpeer review,Ē I was able to find there happened to 1)agree with me and 2)rebut many of your arguments here. I love it when a plan comes together.


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Old 13th March 2019, 08:32 PM   #1462
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Do you not understand the problem? You are conflating research and clinical practice. I didn't say practitioners didn't contribute to research, how absurd!
You just finished saying (implicitly) that peer reviewed journals only deal in research and you havenít acknowledged that there are journals that deal in applying research to clinical practice.



Quote:
You have made no effort in this whole thread to learn from anyone. You just don't get it.
You insist that these professionals have something that I should learn from but you canít point out exactly what I should learn except their unethical and unprofessional behavior. Why should I accept such behavior? Itís as if you want me to accept the flawed science of an iridologist simply because they are an alternative viewpoint to mainstream science. As if Iím supposed to just accept their viewpoint because this iridologist is also a medical doctor. Sorry, not gonna do it.

Quote:
Yes, and they have concluded Trump has NPD.
And an iridologist might say he has gallstones. So what? Do these professionals have solid science to back them up or not? If you think they do, then please present that science here.
Quote:
You keep insisting anything those professionals do that doesn't agree with your limited knowledge of clinical practice needs to have a research paper trail. That's not how it works!
Itís not my admittedly limited knowledge of clinical science that I am relying upon. You know this. If you feel there is an area of clinical practice that the APA is missing, please -present it here. Until you do, all you are doing is arguing from authority.


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Old 13th March 2019, 10:27 PM   #1463
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You just finished saying (implicitly) that peer reviewed journals only deal in research and you havenít acknowledged that there are journals that deal in applying research to clinical practice.
WTF? Maybe you should stick with my actual quotes and not claim they imply something else.

Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You insist that these professionals have something that I should learn from but you canít point out exactly what I should learn except their unethical and unprofessional behavior. Why should I accept such behavior? Itís as if you want me to accept the flawed science of an iridologist simply because they are an alternative viewpoint to mainstream science. As if Iím supposed to just accept their viewpoint because this iridologist is also a medical doctor. Sorry, not gonna do it.

And an iridologist might say he has gallstones. So what? Do these professionals have solid science to back them up or not? If you think they do, then please present that science here.

Itís not my admittedly limited knowledge of clinical science that I am relying upon. You know this. If you feel there is an area of clinical practice that the APA is missing, please -present it here. Until you do, all you are doing is arguing from authority.
None of this is the least bit relevant.
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Old 13th March 2019, 10:28 PM   #1464
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Comparison?

Itís a review from the newly minted Amazon Journal of Psychiatry. Itís one of the one star reviews but Iím on mobile so itís hard for me to link from the Amazon app.

I just did exactly what you suggested, and luckily the only ďpeer review,Ē I was able to find there happened to 1)agree with me and 2)rebut many of your arguments here. I love it when a plan comes together.
LINK???

Not that anything you've posted today makes a lick of sense.
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Old 13th March 2019, 10:55 PM   #1465
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Dr. John Gartner, founder of Duty to Warn, on Trump's cognitive decline:

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I AGREE
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Old 14th March 2019, 09:09 AM   #1466
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Dr. John Gartner, founder of Duty to Warn, on Trump's cognitive decline:

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In the video, Dr. Gartner explains pretty clearly why the Goldwater rule doesn't apply today. He said that in 1964, the psychiatric criticisms of Goldwater were largely based on Freudian speculation about things like Oedipal conflicts without evidence and pre-DSM. He also said that the APA was worried then about getting sued. By contrast, he observes, factual observations are the basis for modern diagnosis, and we have hundreds of hours of Trump's actual speech and behavior on video, a database that grows daily, and the reports of the people who have worked directly with him.

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Old 14th March 2019, 09:17 AM   #1467
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
In the video, Dr. Gartner explains pretty clearly why the Goldwater rule doesn't apply today. He said that in 1964, the psychiatric criticisms of Goldwater were largely based on Freudian speculation about things like Oedipal conflicts without evidence and pre-DSM. He also said that the APA was worried then about getting sued. By contrast, he observes, factual observations are the basis for modern diagnosis, and we have hundreds of hours of Trump's actual speech and behavior on video, a database that grows daily, and the reports of the people who have worked directly with him.
Oh god please let's not get into Freudian speculation about Trump. I do not want to think about his toilet training. (Assuming he ever had any.)
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Old 14th March 2019, 09:20 AM   #1468
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Trump called Tim Cook "Tim Apple," which wouldn't matter much except then he then lied about it.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...n-purpose.html
Twice. And so blatantly. "Yeah, oops!" is impossible for him.
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Old 14th March 2019, 09:22 AM   #1469
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
In yet another day of presidenting with a very big brain...


If my dad started talking like this, I'd see to it that he got professional help.
I'd put mine in a home.
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Old 14th March 2019, 10:03 AM   #1470
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Trump called Tim Cook "Tim Apple," which wouldn't matter much except then he then lied about it.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...n-purpose.html
In the Gartner interview view, Parker commented that he didn't know which was more disturbing: that Trump thought he could get away with lying about it, or that he really believed he said "Tim Cook Apple" (as if that made any sense, either). Gartner pointed out that Trump is both a pathological liar and delusional, so it's hard to say about any specific lie. I notice that Trump apologists here apparently prefer to believe that Trump is just a pathological liar, presumably because delusional thinking is a cognitive disorder -- a "dangerous mentally illness" for a person with extreme power -- whereas antisocial and narcissistic personality disorders are not considered to be mental illnesses, even in such an extreme case as Trump. I believe Dr. Gartner is correct, and I believe he is correct to predict that as the evidence piles up, Trump apologists will continue to "normalize" it.
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Old 14th March 2019, 10:29 AM   #1471
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
In the Gartner interview view, Parker commented that he didn't know which was more disturbing: that Trump thought he could get away with lying about it, or that he really believed he said "Tim Cook Apple" (as if that made any sense, either). Gartner pointed out that Trump is both a pathological liar and delusional, so it's hard to say about any specific lie. I notice that Trump apologists here apparently prefer to believe that Trump is just a pathological liar, presumably because delusional thinking is a cognitive disorder -- a "dangerous mentally illness" for a person with extreme power -- whereas antisocial and narcissistic personality disorders are not considered to be mental illnesses, even in such an extreme case as Trump. I believe Dr. Gartner is correct, and I believe he is correct to predict that as the evidence piles up, Trump apologists will continue to "normalize" it.
I have a morbid curiosity of what Trump can get away with before his supporters admit he's got a mental problem. 'No, he intentionally drooled at that press conference to make a statement about fake media!', 'That was chocolate spread, not feces, on his forehead all night!', 'Speaking in tongues is a legitimate religious expression!', 'Lots of people freeze into immobility in weird postures for an hour at a time!'
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Old 14th March 2019, 02:16 PM   #1472
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Trump: A Picture of Restraint and Moderation:
Quote:
Breitbart published an interview with President Donald Trump on Wednesday in which he suggested that his supporters in the military and police would rally to his side in a way that would be ďvery bad, very badĒ if things get ďto a certain point.Ē
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ce-bikers.html
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Old 14th March 2019, 02:28 PM   #1473
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Trump: A Picture of Restraint and Moderation:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ce-bikers.html
Oh snap! Did the Yale Group also diagnose Trump as restrained and moderate? This new report must be really embarrassing for them.
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Old 14th March 2019, 02:31 PM   #1474
dasmiller
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Trump: A Picture of Restraint and Moderation:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ce-bikers.html


also from that interview:
Originally Posted by Trump
But the left plays it cuter and tougher. Like with all the nonsense that they do in Congress Ö with all this invest[igations]óthatís all they want to do is Ėyou know, they do things that are nasty. Republicans never played this.
so now I'm trying to decide: is it worse if he's simply lying by omission about all the investigations of Hillary etc, or if he has genuinely forgotten them?
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Old 14th March 2019, 02:54 PM   #1475
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Oh snap! Did the Yale Group also diagnose Trump as restrained and moderate?
....
They never did, but the Trump apologists sure have.
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Old 14th March 2019, 03:05 PM   #1476
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
They never did, but the Trump apologists sure have.
Cite?
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Old 14th March 2019, 03:24 PM   #1477
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First person to quote me saying that Trump is "restrained and moderate" gets a free pizza.
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:22 PM   #1478
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
First person to quote me saying that Trump is "restrained and moderate" gets a free pizza.


And Iíll throw in a beer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:30 PM   #1479
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Trump is "restrained and moderate"
That was easy.
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Old 14th March 2019, 04:47 PM   #1480
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I have a morbid curiosity of what Trump can get away with before his supporters admit he's got a mental problem. 'No, he intentionally drooled at that press conference to make a statement about fake media!', 'That was chocolate spread, not feces, on his forehead all night!', 'Speaking in tongues is a legitimate religious expression!', 'Lots of people freeze into immobility in weird postures for an hour at a time!'
I think his hard core supporters are hopeless.
I bet they are signing up now to join the intimidation squads he talked about on Briebart.
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