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Old 15th March 2019, 12:38 AM   #201
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The video of him killing?

Yes

Against the polices requests not to
Are they trying to make him a celebrity to be copied?
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:39 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
But geezes I hope this ends his career
Well, he'll be going to Pare Max. I reckon he'll get non-parole of 50 years. Probably still beats Lundy out, though.

Something like 60% of the blokes in Pare Max are Maori. It's known that at least some Mob and Power blokes have joined islam, and most of that 60% are in one of those gangs.

I suspect his life expectancy inside might be quite short.

I hope they live stream it.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:40 AM   #203
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Shooter claims to have been in contact with the Norwegian terrorist Anders Breivik.

So many things are similar to his attacks, so he has obviously been a role model to him.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:41 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
News outlets broadcast that???
Only excerpts. I haven't seen a report of a mainstream outlet that broadcast the footage from inside the mosque.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:41 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The video of him killing?

Yes

Against the polices requests not to
Who the hell has done that?
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:41 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Are they trying to make him a celebrity to be copied?
Eye balls and clicks rule the media world, and our authorities probably lack the global influence of other countries.

So eyeballs beat potential flack
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:42 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Probably not, or else something like this wouldn't happen.

Anyway, I'll go out on a limb and claim someone - a group of people - was incited by the years and years of radical Islamic violence all over the world and decided Muslims must die for the rest of us to be safe.

It's not like when Muslims go on a rampage. They aren't incitable at all, it's always a case of undiagnosed mental illness with them.

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Old 15th March 2019, 12:44 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Who the hell has done that?
I linked it in the latest what we know so far.

Quote:
Sky News Australia repeatedly broadcast footage of the shooter at the mosque and Ten Daily embedded the footage on its website and social media posts. Neither showed the actual shootings or any victims.

The Ten Daily video remained online for several hours but was eventually taken down, along with all the stills from the video. Sky continued to show excerpts from the video.

...

News.com.au published stills from the shooter’s video and included some footage from the gunman in his car and entering the mosque in an online video.

Channel Nine used some of the shooter’s footage, but stopped the video before the gunman entered the mosque.

The Herald-Sun promoted the video as “Gunman’s horrifying video inside New Zealand mosque”. But it stops the moment he enters the mosque.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:44 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Who the hell has done that?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-police-pleas
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:46 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Scum. How strong are NZ anti terrorisim laws? Hopefully they successfully prosecute him and his accomplaces to the fullest extent of the law.
I can only imagine that murdering 40 people carries the fullest sentence available whether it is terrorism - which it is - or not.

He's a fascist terrorist.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:46 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Well, he'll be going to Pare Max. I reckon he'll get non-parole of 50 years. Probably still beats Lundy out, though.

Something like 60% of the blokes in Pare Max are Maori. It's known that at least some Mob and Power blokes have joined islam, and most of that 60% are in one of those gangs.

I suspect his life expectancy inside might be quite short.

I hope they live stream it.
Was talking about the Tweeting Senator
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:48 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Except this was a Pro-Trump, white supremacist, anti-immigration extremist, the exact opposite of what you were going on about.
Citation?

Chris B.

added: I've not seen anything to suggest the shooting suspect is a Trump supporter.
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Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 15th March 2019 at 01:40 AM. Reason: added info
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:48 AM   #213
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I love that Fraser Anning's Wikipedia page currently reads as follows:

Quote:
William Fraser Anning (born 14 October 1949) is a racist and bigoted Australian politician who has been a Senator for Queensland since 10 November 2017 where he received only 19 votes. his only policy is one of hate.[1]
Yes, that's a citation.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:53 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I love that Fraser Anning's Wikipedia page currently reads as follows:



Yes, that's a citation.
Lol

Classic
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:57 AM   #215
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Anning and his hate should have no place in our Parliament.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:57 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Was talking about the Tweeting Senator
Never heard of him before...

Quote:
William Fraser Anning (born 14 October 1949) is an Australian politician who has been a Senator for Queensland since 10 November 2017...

On 14 August 2018, Anning delivered his maiden speech to the Senate in what was described by journalist Michael Koziol as "the most inflammatory maiden speech to an Australian Parliament since One Nation leader Pauline Hanson's in 1996."
It seems he is a total scumbag.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:03 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Never heard of him before...



It seems he is a total scumbag.
On the upside, letting him spout "his **** means you know he is to be avoided
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:04 AM   #218
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Death toll now at 49, according to the police commissioner (giving a presser now).
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:13 AM   #219
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Statement from the police commissioner about the suspects:

Quote:
I would like to also add that so far one person, a male in his late 20s, has been charged with murder, and should appear in the Christchurch Court tomorrow morning.

Three other people were apprehended. We believe one of those persons who was armed and was at the scene may have had nothing to do with this incident, and the two other people that have been apprehended, again in possession of firearms in the general environment, we are working through to understand what their involvement is.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:14 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Death toll now at 49, according to the police commissioner (giving a presser now).
Yeah

I'd go "Geezes" again, but I have a feeling it will probably climb
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:20 AM   #221
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I wonder if the media will call him an "extremist" and not a "terrorist", owing to his white background.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...ntl/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/w...istchurch.html
https://www.foxnews.com/world/multip...hooting-police

Apparently, no, they will not (nor should they). Some myths are outright dangerous and need to be buried.

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Old 15th March 2019, 01:20 AM   #222
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Prime Minister Morrison has expressed condemnation for Senator Anning's bigoted statements.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:21 AM   #223
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I ended up actually watching the video, to understand.

The dude was making sure he got the job done.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:24 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I ended up actually watching the video, to understand.

The dude was making sure he got the job done.
You mean he killed a lot of people? Yeah, we know that. Apparently the police have confirmed there were 49 people killed. I don't see why it was necessary to watch a video of the killing "to understand".
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:31 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
You mean he killed a lot of people? Yeah, we know that. Apparently the police have confirmed there were 49 people killed. I don't see why it was necessary to watch a video of the killing "to understand".
After today, I can't be bothered having a conversation with you to justify my reasons

But feel free to speculate privately.

Edit: Should add I couldn't watch much of it
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 15th March 2019 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:31 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Scum. How strong are NZ anti terrorisim laws? Hopefully they successfully prosecute him and his accomplaces to the fullest extent of the law.
Our sentences are pretty pathetic. We don't have the kind of comic, almost meaningless sentences they have in USA such as 'five consecutive terms of 99 years' , or the death penalty. Most terms for murder max out at about 20 years.

However, we do have a rather innocuous sounding sentence called "preventive detention", which is a nice-sounding way of saying "lock him up and throw away the key".

Preventive detention is used for people who are considered to have zero chance of rehabilitation and/or who have been deemed by the courts to always present a danger to the community.

This sort of scum would fit that bill IMO.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:36 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Our sentences are pretty pathetic. We don't have the kind of comic, almost meaningless sentences they have in USA such as 'five consecutive terms of 99 years' , or the death penalty. Most terms for murder max out at about 20 years.

However, we do have a rather innocuous sounding sentence called "preventive detention", which is a nice-sounding way of saying "lock him up and throw away the key".

Preventive detention is used for people who are considered to have zero chance of rehabilitation and/or who have been deemed by the courts to always present a danger to the community.

This sort of scum would fit that bill IMO.
Probably, yeah. Here's the manifesto:

http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1552636425397.jpg

I see an awful lot of similarities with the Hamas charter or al-Queda propaganda and others like that. I generally love irony, but here I really could do without.

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Old 15th March 2019, 01:38 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Probably, yeah. Here's the manifesto:

http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1552636425397.jpg

I see an awful lot of similarities with the Hamas charter or al-Queda propaganda and more. I generally love irony, but here I really could do without.

McHrozni
His manifesto is much more similar to Anders Breivik's manifesto, but I guess that comparison would be too uncomfortable for you. Better to keep pointing at the Muslims.

ETA: Linking to images on 4chan doesn't work. I'm not surprised to see you frequent that website, though. /pol/, even. Are they glorifying their new hero, yet?

Last edited by Ryokan; 15th March 2019 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:43 AM   #229
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My question is, where did he get all those guns? Are they so easy to get in New Zealand?

Anders Breivik trawled Europe for the better part of a year to find illegal guns for his attack. He failed, and went down the long route of getting his guns legally.

That last option would not have been open to this guy. He was a foreigner with no ways to bring weapons to New Zealand. So where did he get them?
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:44 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
His manifesto is much more similar to Andres Breivik's manifesto, but I guess that comparison would be too uncomfortable to you.
That one has major similarities too, of course. But Brevik recieved the same treatment as this guy, so there is no hypocrycy there.

Quote:
Better to keep pointing at the Muslims.
I'm pointing out at the blatant hypocrycy in treating extremists from these two opposing groups. I have yet to see a suggestion his motive is "unknown" (a common feature when a Muslim does it), or that he was mentally ill (ditto), or that he did because of "repression" (guess) or maybe that "we shouldn't judge radical nationalists by his actions", nor will anyone suggest "radical nationalism couldn't have motivated his crime, because otherwise all radical nationalists would go on killing sprees".

We all agree he was a radical terrorist and his ideology must be fought and defeated for all time.

Now can we apply the same standard to all ideologies that produce his ilk?

I'm asking because the manifesto suggests some other ideologies (one in particular) have made his ideology worse if not conjured it up altogether.

Quote:
ETA: Linking to images on 4chan doesn't work. I'm not surprised to see you frequent that website, though. /pol/, even.
I got the link off another forum, not that would stop you from a perfectly good ad hominem.

Quote:
Are they glorifying their new hero, yet?
I have no idea. Probably?

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Old 15th March 2019, 01:47 AM   #231
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
My question is, where did he get all those guns? Are they so easy to get in New Zealand?
Apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand

1.5 million private guns for 4 million citizens. Per capita they appear to be more heavily armed than North Korea.

Quote:
That last option would not have been open to this guy. He was a foreigner with no ways to bring weapons to New Zealand. So where did he get them?
One in 8 New Zealanders (including infants) owns a firearm, the average is six guns per owner. It probably wasn't all that hard.

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Old 15th March 2019, 01:50 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
His manifesto is much more similar to Andres Breivik's manifesto, but I guess that comparison would be too uncomfortable for you. Better to keep pointing at the Muslims.

ETA: Linking to images on 4chan doesn't work. I'm not surprised to see you frequent that website, though. /pol/, even. Are they glorifying their new hero, yet?
All they way through reading it, two names kept popping into my head..... Andres Brevik and Rep Steve King
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:52 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I linked it in the latest what we know so far.
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Ok. I thought you meant NZ companies, which I'm pleased to see aren't as far as I can tell. No surprise others are.

Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
My question is, where did he get all those guns? Are they so easy to get in New Zealand?
I'm guessing that's where the accomplices are involved. Guns just aren't that easy to get in NZ, although if you have gang links it gets a lot easier and Chch has always had a very strong skinhead/white supremacist culture.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:54 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand

1.5 million private guns for 4 million citizens. Per capita they appear to be more heavily armed than North Korea.

One in 8 New Zealanders (including infants) owns a firearm, the average is six guns per owner. It probably wasn't all that hard.

McHrozni
Norway has slightly more than New Zealand, yet it's unthinkable that a foreigner can land here and instantly aquire that many semi-automatic weapons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esti...ita_by_country

As I said above here, Breivik tried this for a year. He failed.

So my question remains, where did he get the guns? Who sold/gave them to him? If it's someone who aquired the guns legally, how did someone amass that many weapons without the authorities taking a look at them?
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:58 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Probably not, or else something like this wouldn't happen.

Anyway, I'll go out on a limb and claim someone - a group of people - was incited by the years and years of radical Islamic violence all over the world and decided Muslims must die for the rest of us to be safe.

It's not like when Muslims go on a rampage. They aren't incitable at all, it's always a case of undiagnosed mental illness with them.

McHrozni

Um, what?
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:59 AM   #236
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Norway has slightly more than New Zealand, yet it's unthinkable that a foreigner can land here and instantly aquire that many semi-automatic weapons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esti...ita_by_country

As I said above here, Breivik tried this for a year. He failed.

So my question remains, where did he get the guns? Who sold/gave them to him? If it's someone who aquired the guns legally, how did someone amass that many weapons without the authorities taking a look at them?
Ah, all of those will no doubt be thorughly investigated and the guilty brought to justice. I was merely asking where the guns came from - there are at least 250,000 possible sources in a country of 4 million.

Japan would be a different matter (1 civilian gun per 300 people), to pick an extreme on the other side.

McHrozni
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:00 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Ok. I thought you meant NZ companies, which I'm pleased to see aren't as far as I can tell. No surprise others are.



I'm guessing that's where the accomplices are involved. Guns just aren't that easy to get in NZ, although if you have gang links it gets a lot easier and Chch has always had a very strong skinhead/white supremacist culture.
This isn't entirely true

The skinhead types in the 80's were around, but they kind of got pushed away to Dunedin, and then pretty much died out, probably due to boredom

It has always had a Mongrel Mob presence and other scum gangs, which can get them just as easily
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:01 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand

1.5 million private guns for 4 million citizens. Per capita they appear to be more heavily armed than North Korea.



One in 8 New Zealanders (including infants) owns a firearm, the average is six guns per owner. It probably wasn't all that hard.

McHrozni
I think that is unfair. Many of those guns are shotguns (duck and goose shooting are popular seasonal sports here) and hunting rifles (again, hunting is a popular sports).

Guns such as handguns and MSSAs are supposed to be difficult to get. If I were a betting man, I would guess that most of his guns were either stolen, or smuggled in or both. I doubt he would have a firearms licence as he would likely fail the "fit and proper person" test.

I guess we are now going to see a whole raft of new firearms restrictions brought in. Every firearm will have to be on a register as well as every firearms owner. And I can tell you, unlike the USA, any new restrictions will have near unanimous support from all parties in the house, and will have the overwhelming support of New Zealanders, even gun owners like me.
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:03 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
All they way through reading it, two names kept popping into my head..... Andres Brevik and Rep Steve King
Exactly, it read as a typical white supremacist pamphlet. Nothing new.
I was particularly taken back by all his references to causing strife in the US. We have enough already without any help, thanks.

Chris B.
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:04 AM   #240
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Um, what?
I'm sarcastic. When there were examples of Muslim attacks similar to this (Paris, Tolouse, Florida) the usual line was "mental patient", "has no connection to Islam", "don't blame Islam", "you don't understand what they went through" and so on. Israel features prominently. A common trope is that "he's only a terrorist because he isn't white, he wouldn't be called a terrorist if he was white".

I'm using (some might say abusing, but idk) this sad example of a non-Muslim extremist doing what has been a nearly exclusive domain of Muslims for many years to highlight the hypocrycy is reversed. There is no leniency offered because this guy is white or because he targets Muslims, if anything he (or this group, there appear to be many) recieves worse criticism than Muslim terrorists do.

There is nothing wrong in how he is treated, but neither are Muslim extremists deserving of lighter treatment because they're Muslim. That's all I'm saying.

McHrozni
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