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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 14th April 2019, 04:13 PM   #41
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Theoretical question: Since Trump is vermin, couldn't we just call Pest Control to have him removed from office? Not suggesting any harm to him, they could live trap him using a Big Mac as bait.
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Old 14th April 2019, 04:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That's incorrect. The IRS or Internal Revenue Service has been given that deadline. They are the branch of the United States that processes tax returns. Theoretically and legally, the President has no authority to tell the IRS to do anything.
Minor nitpick, but the request goes to the Secretary of the Treasury, and not to the IRS.

The President is the head of the executive branch. The IRS is part of the executive branch. While the president doesn't have any direct authority over rank and file IRS members, he can, and does, set policy directives. He is in the chain of command, so to speak.
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Old 14th April 2019, 05:10 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Minor nitpick, but the request goes to the Secretary of the Treasury, and not to the IRS.

The President is the head of the executive branch. The IRS is part of the executive branch. While the president doesn't have any direct authority over rank and file IRS members, he can, and does, set policy directives. He is in the chain of command, so to speak.
Not really a nitpick. Yes, the IRS is a branch of the executive branch,. However, it is supposed to follow the law and POTUS cannot tell them to disobey the law. He may not order an audit or tell the IRS to selectively ignore a company or citizen. In theory, he is their boss, but their allegiance is to the law. And the law on this is very clear.
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Old 14th April 2019, 05:13 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Not really a nitpick. Yes, the IRS is a branch of the executive branch,. However, it is supposed to follow the law and POTUS cannot tell them to disobey the law. He may not order an audit or tell the IRS to selectively ignore a company or citizen. In theory, he is their boss, but their allegiance is to the law. And the law on this is very clear.
So, like the police, Trump is their "boss" and "signs their paychecks", but doesn't set or administer the laws they have to uphold as part of their jobs.
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Old 14th April 2019, 05:32 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Theoretical question: Since Trump is vermin, couldn't we just call Pest Control to have him removed from office? Not suggesting any harm to him, they could live trap him using a Big Mac as bait.
A humane trap which confines him without hurting him, and then transport to some confined habitat made to feel like his natural environment, like the office and living quarters environment of a skyscraper . Give him a cell phone so he can send tweets, and allow spectators so he can hold rallies.

I'm sure everyone would be eternally grateful, and he will be much happier than in his current situation in the wild.
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Old 14th April 2019, 05:33 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Theoretical question: Since Trump is vermin, couldn't we just call Pest Control to have him removed from office? Not suggesting any harm to him, they could live trap him using a Big Mac as bait.
Only if they burn it to a crisp and put ketchup on it.
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Old 14th April 2019, 05:38 PM   #47
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Trump Tweets

Such a “puff piece” on Nancy Pelosi by @60minutes, yet her leadership has passed no meaningful Legislation. All they do is Investigate, as it turns out, crimes that they instigated & committed. The Mueller No Collusion decision wasn’t even discussed-and she was a disaster at W.H.
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Old 14th April 2019, 05:53 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So, like the police, Trump is their "boss" and "signs their paychecks", but doesn't set or administer the laws they have to uphold as part of their jobs.
Nixon tried to get the IRS to go after the political opposition (his enemies list) but the head of the IRS just ignored him.

Interestingly both Nixon and his Vice President violated tax laws. VP Agnew was even convicted and resigned and was replaced by Gerald Ford and then Ford replaced Nixon. Nixon pardoned Agnew and then after Nixon resigned Ford pardoned Nixon preemptively.
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Old 14th April 2019, 06:05 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Not really a nitpick. Yes, the IRS is a branch of the executive branch,. However, it is supposed to follow the law and POTUS cannot tell them to disobey the law. He may not order an audit or tell the IRS to selectively ignore a company or citizen. In theory, he is their boss, but their allegiance is to the law. And the law on this is very clear.
Challenging the law is not the same as disobeying the law.
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Old 14th April 2019, 06:07 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
In theory, he is their boss, but their allegiance is to the law.
A concept that nettles the president almost every day.
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Old 14th April 2019, 06:41 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Challenging the law is not the same as disobeying the law.
Yeah, it pretty much is. Congress has the authority to issue subpoenas like any judge. And failure to comply puts you in contempt.
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Old 14th April 2019, 07:16 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Nixon tried to get the IRS to go after the political opposition (his enemies list)
Nixon was acting like he thought he was "Boss", which is exactly what Trump tries to do. He thinks the government is just like a business, and as President, he is Boss; everyone has to do exactly what he says or they're fired. Its the only way he knows how to conduct business, because the majority of his businesses are conducted as criminal enterprises.

Unfortunately, he is getting away with it. It needs for Congress to stop talking and start acting, like sending the FBI around to arrest both Steve Mnuchin and John Koskinen and charge them under USC§6103.
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Old 14th April 2019, 07:21 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Challenging the law is not the same as disobeying the law.
You challenge the Law in court, not by disobeying it. It would be like the Police coming to arrest me for something, and me telling them that I will be challenging the law under which I am to be charged. If I try that on by resisting arrest, it will not end well for me.

First I must comply with the Law, then I can challenge it.

If Trump wants to challenge the right of Congress to get his Tax returns, he must first comply with the Law, then take Congress to court.
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Old 14th April 2019, 07:30 PM   #54
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Well.. there is civil disobedience. However, that is challenging the law by knowing one will get arrested and done by those who aren't in power. What the Trump regime is doing is trying to assume powers that aren't his to fulfill his authoritarian agenda.
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Old 14th April 2019, 07:34 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You challenge the Law in court, not by disobeying it. It would be like the Police coming to arrest me for something, and me telling them that I will be challenging the law under which I am to be charged. If I try that on by resisting arrest, it will not end well for me.

First I must comply with the Law, then I can challenge it.

If Trump wants to challenge the right of Congress to get his Tax returns, he must first comply with the Law, then take Congress to court.
Or, given the telegraphing in public, file a suit to challenge it and petition for an injunction until a ruling is made. I wonder if there's a position in the West Wing staff for someone who handles the President interacting with the courts. That could be a thing. Nah, just call up a mid-level technocrat and shout at them on the phone (we know he's not good at confrontation in person).
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Old 14th April 2019, 07:35 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You challenge the Law in court, not by disobeying it. It would be like the Police coming to arrest me for something, and me telling them that I will be challenging the law under which I am to be charged. If I try that on by resisting arrest, it will not end well for me.

First I must comply with the Law, then I can challenge it.

If Trump wants to challenge the right of Congress to get his Tax returns, he must first comply with the Law, then take Congress to court.
Not really. You don't have to have an arrest or penalty on file to contest a law. That method has worked well in overturning many laws (civil disobedience during the segue from Jim Crow to Civil Rights eras comes to mind - Rosa Parks being the prime example) but many of Trump's more draconian attempts this term have been taken directly to the courts, no arrests necessary.

In the case of his tax returns, I'm pretty sure he can get a friendly judge to issue a stay against the IRS or Congress and that could proceed to the appellate divisions and supremes.
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Old 14th April 2019, 07:49 PM   #57
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I love this quote from Magistrate Claggett in Deadwood that fits the situation rather well.

"I didn't generate the warrant.

My disappearance won't quash it.

You can't murder an order
or the telegraph that transmitted it
or those that are content
to put food on the table
simply by being its instruments.

It can't be done."

But then he did get his throat cut and nobody was the wiser for years...

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Old 14th April 2019, 09:16 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Didn't Washington state just make it impossible to run for POTUS/win that state for candidates who had not released their tax returns?
One state did, but it is doubtful it would hold up if challenged in court.
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Old 14th April 2019, 10:02 PM   #59
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The nominee for the Fed doesn't believe in democracy and calls the federal income tax "evil."
Quote:
"Capitalism is a lot more important than democracy," Moore said. "I'm not even a big believer in democracy."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/12/polit...ile/index.html
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Old 14th April 2019, 10:05 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The nominee for the Fed doesn't believe in democracy and calls the federal income tax "evil."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/12/polit...ile/index.html
At least he's honest about that, unlike other Republicans who claim to care about democracy but really don't.
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:31 AM   #61
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Quote:
This thread has been closed for length.
I wonder of Trump knows these threads are the only things ever related to him that have been too long?
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:51 AM   #62
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Trump Tweets

@SteveHiltonx “This is President Trump trying to deliver on his promises while the bureaucratic machine fights his agenda. He needs populist allies. These changes are not chaos, but rather progress. All this is President Trump at his absolute best.”

Thank you Steve!
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:56 AM   #63
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Trump Tweets

Chinese Telecom Giant Huawei hires former Obama Cyber Security Official as a lobbyist. This is not good, or acceptable! @FoxNews @SteveHiltonx
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Old 15th April 2019, 02:32 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The nominee for the Fed doesn't believe in democracy and calls the federal income tax "evil."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/12/polit...ile/index.html
Huh.
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Old 15th April 2019, 04:21 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Didn't Washington state just make it impossible to run for POTUS/win that state for candidates who had not released their tax returns?
Umm.. isn't that unconstitutional ? In effect, Washington State is interfering with the right of a voter to vote for their preferred candidate ? Or rather.. they are putting restrictions on the right of an American Citizen to stand for election ?

Can they DO that ?
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Old 15th April 2019, 04:30 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I wonder of Trump knows these threads are the only things ever related to him that have been too long?
His tie is too long. Looks like his suit-pants are also usually too long.
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Old 15th April 2019, 04:32 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Roofgardener View Post
Umm.. isn't that unconstitutional ? In effect, Washington State is interfering with the right of a voter to vote for their preferred candidate ? Or rather.. they are putting restrictions on the right of an American Citizen to stand for election ?

Can they DO that ?
I think they can, as individual States have their own rules. Voters can still vote for their preferred candidate. In fact, making the election based on popular vote gives more power to the voters and less to real-estate.
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Old 15th April 2019, 04:32 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Roofgardener View Post
Umm.. isn't that unconstitutional ? In effect, Washington State is interfering with the right of a voter to vote for their preferred candidate ? Or rather.. they are putting restrictions on the right of an American Citizen to stand for election ?

Can they DO that ?
They probably can, IMO. You can still vote for whomever you like, they just won't have your name on the ballot if you don't release your taxes. You can still write in a vote for anyone that is not listed on the ballot.
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Old 15th April 2019, 04:44 AM   #69
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Soooo... let me see if I understand this properly ?

The Chairman of the Ways and Means committee - a Democrat and hence political opponent of President Trump - wants to see the Presidents tax returns.

Why ?
This has never happened before. Doesn't this look a bit like political harassment ? We already know that there is nothing illegal in the Presidents tax returns, or the IRS would have intervened. So what is the PURPOSE for the WaM Committee to inspect his tax returns ?
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Old 15th April 2019, 04:45 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I think they can, as individual States have their own rules. Voters can still vote for their preferred candidate. In fact, making the election based on popular vote gives more power to the voters and less to real-estate.
Well.. yes.. but surely voting for a federal role (President, in this case) is subject to Federal law, not State law ?
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Old 15th April 2019, 04:47 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Roofgardener View Post
Well.. yes.. but surely voting for a federal role (President, in this case) is subject to Federal law, not State law ?
I can't help but think that the Washington senate KNOW this, and know that their "law" will be struck down if challenged. They are just indulging in "virtue signalling".
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Old 15th April 2019, 04:47 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Roofgardener View Post
Well.. yes.. but surely voting for a federal role (President, in this case) is subject to Federal law, not State law ?
Each State handles how it votes for Federal elections individually. And please don't call me Shirley.
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Old 15th April 2019, 04:50 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Roofgardener View Post
Soooo... let me see if I understand this properly ?

The Chairman of the Ways and Means committee - a Democrat and hence political opponent of President Trump - wants to see the Presidents tax returns.

Why ?
This has never happened before. Doesn't this look a bit like political harassment ? We already know that there is nothing illegal in the Presidents tax returns, or the IRS would have intervened. So what is the PURPOSE for the WaM Committee to inspect his tax returns ?
No president has refused to release their tax returns. That is why this has never happened before. As far as "political harassment" goes, the Republicans have done far worse and only very flimsy grounds. With Trump, at least there is a basis for suspicion.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-investigated/
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Old 15th April 2019, 05:08 AM   #74
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Trump Tweets

What do I know about branding, maybe nothing (but I did become President!), but if I were Boeing, I would FIX the Boeing 737 MAX, add some additional great features, & REBRAND the plane with a new name.
No product has suffered like this one. But again, what the hell do I know?
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Old 15th April 2019, 05:12 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

What do I know about branding, maybe nothing (but I did become President!), but if I were Boeing, I would FIX the Boeing 737 MAX, add some additional great features, & REBRAND the plane with a new name.
No product has suffered like this one. But again, what the hell do I know?
That is...kinda okay advice?
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Old 15th April 2019, 05:21 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Roofgardener View Post
Well.. yes.. but surely voting for a federal role (President, in this case) is subject to Federal law, not State law ?

But that's exactly wrong. In fact, the complete lack of Federal standards for conducting elections is a big part of why US elections have been such **** shows these last 20 years or so (ever since the Hanging Chads debacle).
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Old 15th April 2019, 05:25 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
But that's exactly wrong. In fact, the complete lack of Federal standards for conducting elections is a big part of why US elections have been such **** shows these last 20 years or so (ever since the Hanging Chads debacle).
Why do you think the federal standards would be better than a bad state's? Why don't you think it wont make the other 49 worse?
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Old 15th April 2019, 05:29 AM   #78
The Great Zaganza
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For a very long time now it has been recognized how important it is to know about the tax history of politicians - which is why they usually publish their tax returns.
The only unusual thing that happened is that Trump lied about releasing his.
This alone is reason to be suspicious.
And what Trump's head of the Treasury said raises questions about how thorough the audit of his taxes is, given the obvious pressure the staff is being subjected to.
An investigation is something the Republicans should have done.
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Old 15th April 2019, 05:34 AM   #79
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
For a very long time now it has been recognized how important it is to know about the tax history of politicians - which is why they usually publish their tax returns.
The only unusual thing that happened is that Trump lied about releasing his.
This alone is reason to be suspicious.
And what Trump's head of the Treasury said raises questions about how thorough the audit of his taxes is, given the obvious pressure the staff is being subjected to.
An investigation is something the Republicans should have done.
A) what is the evidence that it has been seen as important to know the tax history is important? Just because they released them, doesnt mean it is important.

B) what is the obvious pressure the staff is under?

C) If it is about an audit, it sure doesn't look like it. Who is the committee going to use to conduct an audit? Since the committee to lacks the expertise to audit, what safeguards are they putting in place to ensure neither them or their staff view the returns?
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Old 15th April 2019, 05:36 AM   #80
Roofgardener
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
For a very long time now it has been recognized how important it is to know about the tax history of politicians - .......
Really ? Recognized by whom ? And since when ? 2016 ?
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