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Old 22nd April 2019, 09:47 AM   #641
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I have only skimmed bits of the thread, but has Gingervytes been exposed as a Flat Earther?
He hasn't admitted it, if that's what you're asking. He's been asked several times point-blank whether he is, and he has ignored that.

Quote:
I think Gingervytes is adapting too many Flat Earth talking points for it to be coincidental.
Agreed. His misconceptions of physics are exactly theirs. As I said, either he is shilling for them or he has been taken in by them. Neither bodes well for the strength of his argument.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 09:49 AM   #642
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Yeah, some real science is neede here.
I'm a little bit curious about how they determined the exhaust velocity. Was direct experimentation done, or did they use textbook values? And what textbook, if any, has that information?

Of course, even if the thrust is sufficient, there are practical problem. For one, I don't think exposing certain parts of ones anatomy to vacuum, as would be necessary to accomplish this, would be a really good idea.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 09:57 AM   #643
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Any one have any ideas on why this thread was started? There is a lot of good rocket science here so it is not a waste, but there seems to be no actual point to the thread.
I suspect it's a preemptive move. If he wants to push flat-Earthism then maybe he decided to attack the most likely counter to his 'belief' in advance? But then there are scores of other counters to flat-Earthism, so I'm not sure.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 10:01 AM   #644
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Ingredients

1 Mama Cat
1 or more Daddy(ies) Cat(s)
1 Barry White Album
Have you ever seen a female cat in heat? They don't need Barry White to get 'em in the mood.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 10:04 AM   #645
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
[aside]A vacuum cleaner is pretty much useless in a vacuum.[/aside]
Worse than useless. The motors are all air-cooled, so in a vacuum they would overheat and burn out.
Ha! That's gotta be a conspiracy! How do you go about cleaning a vacuum, then? Let's say it's really, really dirty and needs a good cleaning! Whatever you use has got to be a vacuum cleaner!
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Old 22nd April 2019, 10:07 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
I’ve already addressed them. I’ve shown that the assumption that there is a equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force, like there is for pushing and pulling, is false.
No, you haven't shown that. You have attempted and failed miserably to do so.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 10:14 AM   #647
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Piles of them. But our OP has declared arbitrarily that since it's not impossible for them to have been faked, they cannot be considered evidence.
Hold on: has anyone demonstrated that Gingervytes is not a hoax/multi-national conspiracy/shill for flat earthers? Could be, ya know. I demand proof submitted online that cannot be faked. Also proof that there are mebbe not two Gingervytes.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 11:06 AM   #648
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Piles of them. But our OP has declared arbitrarily that since it's not impossible for them to have been faked, they cannot be considered evidence.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 22nd April 2019, 11:10 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Stuff Trimmed
Gingervytes,

Can you summarize your thesis and the evidence supporting it for people new to the thread?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 11:12 AM   #650
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Thanks mate. I realize that step 4 will be challenging, not because the science is wrong, it’s because the scientists “in charge” are dishonest and bought off. I work in a regulated industry and I see first hand managers risk their jobs by breaking regulation to make themselves look better even at the expense of the end user. Money talks. No one want to give up their comfortable seat.
Translated: Nobody with an established background in the field buys my line of ********.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 11:13 AM   #651
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Gingervytes,

Can you summarize your thesis and the evidence supporting it for people new to the thread?
Would posting an image of a yoyo suffice?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 11:15 AM   #652
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Would posting an image of a yoyo suffice?
I want to know how Gingervytes would summarize it.

from what I can see, this video from Flat Earth Talk covers the basics of what Gingervytes is trying to say:

Scientist Shows Proof That Rockets Do Not Work In The Vacuum of Space
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


This video is amusing as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcW5B0C3fCw
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I have never encountered ANYONE arguing that rockets can't work in space who wasn't doing so for a religious motive.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 11:17 AM   #653
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You have to remember most of the 'no such thing as space' crowd think gravity is a hoax.
True, and most of them cite density and buoyancy as an explanation for objects falling to the ground. How they imagine that works in the absence of gravity, I have no idea.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 11:18 AM   #654
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I want to know how Gingervytes would summarize it.
I don't know how someone who refuses to prove that they are real could do so, but vaya con dios.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 11:57 AM   #655
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Ha! That's gotta be a conspiracy! How do you go about cleaning a vacuum, then?

Use the “delicates” cycle at -270°C. It’ll be fine.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 12:07 PM   #656
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
He hasn't admitted it, if that's what you're asking. He's been asked several times point-blank whether he is, and he has ignored that.



Agreed. His misconceptions of physics are exactly theirs. As I said, either he is shilling for them or he has been taken in by them. Neither bodes well for the strength of his argument.
Jay I admire your tenacity and your knowledge of space activities, since it is your job along with sts60 to design and maybe monitor hardware that is launched into space. I'm sure that the willfully ignorant Gingervytes disagrees with reality because he has taken in a rather stupid concept(maybe a couple of them). I called troll a few pages back and quit the thread posting. I still keep up with the nonsense though. As you may recall I'm an "underground" type engineer that does not possess the rocket science which you guys know. I can tell you that Gingervytes has NEVER pointed a satellite dish at the shy with what is called a "bird dog". For those that aren't familiar with that device, it measure the reception strength from a geosynchronous communications satellite. You twist/turn/elevate the dish until you have successfully pointed it at that satellite, even from 200 miles offshore in the gulf of Mexico. Then the rig has communication Internet/TV with the rest of the world.
I'm an old dog that didn't know there were two separate forces to the rockets thrust and I did learn that from this thread.

Again I'm done with this troll keep up the good work all you aerospace engineers.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:23 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Thanks mate. I realize that step 4 will be challenging, not because the science is wrong, it’s because the scientists “in charge” are dishonest and bought off. I work in a regulated industry and I see first hand managers risk their jobs by breaking regulation to make themselves look better even at the expense of the end user. Money talks. No one want to give up their comfortable seat.
Every scientist in the world forever has been 'bought off'?

Who by and why?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:24 PM   #658
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Maybe there were two of them
and if my aunty had balls she would be my uncle.

What is your evidence for there being 'two of them'?

If you make a claim like that you need to support it.

Just to help you on the way. If there were 'two of them' when and where was the second one launched so that it wasn't noticed by anyone?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:27 PM   #659
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Thanks mate. I realize that step 4 will be challenging, not because the science is wrong, it’s because the scientists “in charge” are dishonest and bought off. I work in a regulated industry and I see first hand managers risk their jobs by breaking regulation to make themselves look better even at the expense of the end user. Money talks. No one want to give up their comfortable seat.
Am I the only person here who finds this very different from the broken English and terrible formatting of previous Gingervytes posts?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:39 PM   #660
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
[aside]
Apropos of nothing in particular, a humorous thought did strike me as I was reading the thread.

A vacuum cleaner is pretty much useless in a vacuum.
[/aside]
I would like to point out that there was a documentary film entitled "Spaceballs" that demonstrated that your statement is sadly false.

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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:40 PM   #661
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Spaceballs™ the Balloon Car.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:53 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Every scientist in the world forever has been 'bought off'?

Who by and why?
This gets us back to the Flat Earth conspiracy. In order for the Flat Earth delusion to be arguable you have to assume a massive, global, conspiracy to conceal the alleged "evidence" of a Flat Earth. You rarely get an explanation for the conspiracy beyond vague notions of "denying God" or "denying proofs of supernatural." This a fundamentally stupid argument for a variety for reasons. For example, it would mean even overtly theistic countries were part of a conspiracy to conceal proof of the divine!

Since Gingervytes is so blatantly parroting Flat Earth talking points it's reasonable to conclude that their "evidence" of a conspiracy amounts to no more than the assumption that there MUST be a conspiracy to explain their underlying ideology.

The only "reason" for the conspiracy is that it is a prerequisite for their theology.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 02:10 PM   #663
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Since you can’t point out anything wrong with it, it must be fine
The same as with the first video. Read the comments - why I should repeat something what about 50 people said already?
All the comments, including diagnosing the author with a steroid-caused brain damage, are correct. I would probably just point at the fact, the people who correctly identified ground effect for the drone raising with the cardboard used a wrong explanation for that phenomenon. The "Air Cushion" misconception is quite common among pilots. Find more from some sources dealing with aerodynamics of a wing.

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Old 22nd April 2019, 02:26 PM   #664
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Worse than useless. The motors are all air-cooled, so in a vacuum they would overheat and burn out.
Actually, probably not. The motor would run without load producing very little heat that would probably be safely radiated out. The motor would more likely over-rev and disintegrate as series motors (used in vacuumcleaners) do. Anyway, we do agree on the "worse than useless" point. Jut nitpicking mental exercise.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 02:36 PM   #665
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Any one have any ideas on why this thread was started? There is a lot of good rocket science here so it is not a waste, but there seems to be no actual point to the thread.
With you 100%. I admit I use it as mental exercise and source of entertainment .
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Old 22nd April 2019, 03:00 PM   #666
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Gingervytes, a while back I asked a serious question, which I think could be answered seriously and honestly, if you cared to. You have demonstrated an unwillingness to accept any of the evidence provided by anyone here, or photographs purportedly made by people who flew into space and returned, and so on.

So I repeat my question: what, if anything, would be acceptable as evidence to you? So far you are playing a game of waiting until someone comes up with a suggestion, and then rejecting it. Instead of playing that tired old game, why don't you say exactly what would satisfy you? Not what won't. What will.

If you want to be taken for someone who is honest, you need to be honest. This has not so far been in evidence.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 04:42 PM   #667
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So, and someone correct me if this is too simplistic, if a rocket is in space and shooting gasses out of a nozzle at one end, and we accept that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, what could the rocket possibly do but move in the opposite direction the hot gases are going? What other reaction is possible?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 04:46 PM   #668
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Thanks mate. I realize that step 4 will be challenging, not because the science is wrong, it’s because the scientists “in charge” are dishonest and bought off.....
If you got an education and became a scientist, how much would it take to buy you off and support the "rockets in space" conspiracy? I for one could not imagine prostituting myself in that fashion; why would you think so many others are?

Ranb
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Old 22nd April 2019, 04:54 PM   #669
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
So, and someone correct me if this is too simplistic, if a rocket is in space and shooting gasses out of a nozzle at one end, and we accept that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, what could the rocket possibly do but move in the opposite direction the hot gases are going? What other reaction is possible?
It's not too simplistic. Gingervytes rewrites Newton's definition of reaction to require something to push off from. He refuses to engage with anyone who shows him why that's not what Newton meant.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 05:00 PM   #670
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I for one could not imagine prostituting myself in that fashion; why would you think so many others are?
I wouldn't mind if someone were to try me, though.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 05:07 PM   #671
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
If you got an education and became a scientist, how much would it take to buy you off and support the "rockets in space" conspiracy? I for one could not imagine prostituting myself in that fashion; why would you think so many others are?

Ranb
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...racy-theories/

The answer to your question may be that conspiracy theorists are more likely to engage in conspiratorial behavior themselves. There are also some interesting (but not enough) studies linking believing in conspiracy theories to petty crime. To think people would engage in perpetuating a lie on the scale described in OP might be because the believers don't see anything wrong with similar behavior themselves. There aren't that many studies yet but it's an interesting idea.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 07:14 PM   #672
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Gingervytes, a while back I asked a serious question, which I think could be answered seriously and honestly, if you cared to. You have demonstrated an unwillingness to accept any of the evidence provided by anyone here, or photographs purportedly made by people who flew into space and returned, and so on.

So I repeat my question: what, if anything, would be acceptable as evidence to you? So far you are playing a game of waiting until someone comes up with a suggestion, and then rejecting it. Instead of playing that tired old game, why don't you say exactly what would satisfy you? Not what won't. What will.

If you want to be taken for someone who is honest, you need to be honest. This has not so far been in evidence.
Actual science with experiment and observation that is repeatable and reproduceable
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Old 22nd April 2019, 07:18 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Actual science with experiment and observation that is repeatable and reproduceable
How many documented and observed rocket launches do you think there have been? And what do you have in opposition? A couple of crank YouTube videos, a fair amount of ignorance regarding physics, and piles upon piles of unsubstantiated claims of large-scale conspiracy.

Yeah, we win.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 07:20 PM   #674
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You can’t prove it with actual science so you only have rocket launches, where the rocket isn’t even seen going into space, as proof. Don’t you think that is pathetic?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 07:23 PM   #675
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
You can’t prove it with actual science...
Except that I did, and linked it twice so that you wouldn't miss it. You keep pretending it doesn't exist.

Quote:
so you only have rocket launches, where the rocket isn’t even seen going into space...
Except that it is observed to do so.

Quote:
...as proof.
Yes. It happily meets and exceeds the standards of proof that apply to your own videos.

Quote:
Don’t you think that is pathetic?
No, I think it is my profession. You have accused me and my colleagues of being liars and of being paid off. Are you ready to substantiate those accusations?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 07:29 PM   #676
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All your scientific proof is debunked. You have no simple experiment. I have already used simple experiment to disprove an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AubIFUsq7Ss

There is no unedited video of a rocket going into space. You simply have no proof.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 07:32 PM   #677
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
All your scientific proof is debunked. You have no simple experiment. I have already used simple experiment to disprove an equal and opposite force from gas movement due to pressure gradient force. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AubIFUsq7Ss

There is no unedited video of a rocket going into space. You simply have no proof.

Are you going to be part of the expedition to cross the giant ice wall?

What’s your explanation for Australia? How widespread is the belief that Australia is fake in the Flat Earth community?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 07:38 PM   #678
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
All your scientific proof is debunked.
Not by anything you've shown here.

Again, you have suggested that I'm a liar who is taking money to knowingly conceal the truth. I grow tired of asking you to prove that. I dare you to prove it.

Quote:
You have no simple experiment.
Asked and answered. I have personally designed, with a team, spacecraft that went into space, and I operated them and they behaved as we expected. There have been hundreds of rocket launches, many dozens of which now let you watch them go from the launch pad all the way to space. Even as early as the mid-1960s the launches of the Saturn V's were tracked by camera all the way to space.

Quote:
I have already used simple experiment...
No, you linked to a video. Yet if your critics link to a video, you say double-speak crap like:
Quote:
There is no unedited video of a rocket going into space.
Quote:
You simply have no proof.
Of course we do. You simply have a double standard when it comes to the evidence.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 07:39 PM   #679
Gingervytes
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I don’t claim any of that. I am claiming that rockets don’t work in space
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Old 22nd April 2019, 07:43 PM   #680
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
I don’t claim any of that.
That's a lie. Here's what you said:
Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
it’s because the scientists “in charge” are dishonest and bought off.
Quote:
I am claiming that rockets don’t work in space
And I say I know that they do, and that it's my profession to do just that. Prove I'm the liar and bribe-receiver you accuse me of being. Put up or shut up.

Last edited by JayUtah; 22nd April 2019 at 08:16 PM.
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