ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 13th May 2019, 05:57 PM   #1401
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 73,967
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
First of all, does anyone know if that $1.6 billion is new funding, or just a failure to cut as much as he had been planning?

Secondly... NASA's budget in 2019 was ~$21.5 billion. While obviously more funding is better than less, the $1.6 billion is only about a ~7% increase. And since inflation is also a thing, the increase is closer to 5%. That doesn't seem to be enough to "return to space in a big way". (By comparison, that wouldn't even be enough to fund the Mars 2020 rover.)
I think Trump just imagines he has tax money to spend the same way he imagines he has his own billions to spend. That it's all borrowed doesn't reach the conscious level of his brain.

IOW, if you are looking for any semblance of making sense, you won't find it.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 06:09 PM   #1402
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 73,967
Trump praises another right wing dictator today, joking that they are both controversial.

Trump meets Viktor Orban in White House
Quote:
The president's remarks came during an Oval Office meeting with controversial Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has been criticized for anti-Semitic and xenophobic comments throughout his time in office. During their meeting, the president acknowledged Orban's visit "probably might be a little controversial, but that's ok."
Apparently a lot of the left simply fled the country, and that favors Orban.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 06:33 PM   #1403
TellyKNeasuss
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,056
A Washington Post columnist suggested that the Chinese might be taking a hard line on trade negotiations because they believe that Trump's complaints about the Federal Reserve's interest rate hikes indicate that Trump does not believe that the US economy is healthy, so that the US might not be truly able to handle a trade war. It seems equally plausible to me that the Chinese believe that Trump will be so desperate to prove that he can make a deal that he will cave in to the Chinese.
__________________
"Facts are stupid things."
Ronald Reagan


TellyKNeasuss is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 08:40 PM   #1404
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,481
Originally Posted by Tero View Post
All Trump hats are imports.

Snopes says "False".

"Official" Trump MAGA hats are made in the U.S.

Third party hats are from anywhere.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 08:53 PM   #1405
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,481
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Would laugh if it rained, and there were only a few passing tourists attending.

If it rained he probably wouldn't attend.

ETA: Ninja'd. I should have anticipated that and read ahead.

But it was worth a repeat.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

Last edited by quadraginta; 13th May 2019 at 10:15 PM.
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 08:55 PM   #1406
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,466
Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
A Washington Post columnist suggested that the Chinese might be taking a hard line on trade negotiations because they believe that Trump's complaints about the Federal Reserve's interest rate hikes indicate that Trump does not believe that the US economy is healthy, so that the US might not be truly able to handle a trade war. It seems equally plausible to me that the Chinese believe that Trump will be so desperate to prove that he can make a deal that he will cave in to the Chinese.
Problem is that Trump has no idea when he is being beaten. Not a clue. So when the deal comes, it will be heavily weighted in China's favour, far worse than if Trump had just shut up, butted out, and left it to the professional negotiators who work for the government. But Trump will call it a "beautiful win" no matter what.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 08:57 PM   #1407
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,466
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
If it rained he probably wouldn't attend.
That's what I mean. He would be golfing or whatever, but later will claim that he gave a beautiful speech from the Lincoln memorial nonetheless, and the best fireworks of any president.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 08:57 PM   #1408
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,789
Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
No federal law requires it, but many states have laws requiring it.

ETA
They are called faithless electors.
No, the point of the column was that states with Republican governors and legislatures, and maybe just Republican legislatures, could change existing laws to allow them to appoint Republican electors even if the Democrat won the popular vote.

And that "faithless elector" business is tricky. Depend on state law -- which the state can change -- a "faithless elector's" vote might still count.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithl...ntial_election

Last edited by Bob001; 13th May 2019 at 09:03 PM.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 09:15 PM   #1409
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,037
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump praises another right wing dictator today, joking that they are both controversial.
Trump loves the authoritarians. He wants to be one and might, with Republican help.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 09:35 PM   #1410
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,789
Trump opposes land for Indian casino that would compete with his:

Quote:
....
So far, no Trump connection. But the tribe’s site is about 18 miles from Rhode Island, and that state’s politicians aren’t keen to have a new competitor go up against their two casinos, both of which are run by Twin River Worldwide Holdings, a public company with strong Trump ties.

Twin River’s president, George Papanier, was a finance executive at the Trump Plaza casino hotel in Atlantic City earlier in his career, and Twin River’s chief marketing officer, Phil Juliano, also lists experience at a Trump casino on his résumé.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.96ab34c5e82b
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 10:04 PM   #1411
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,239
Expect Trump to get tremendous pressure from farmers - he'll have to cough up money to compensate them for the soy they won't sell to China.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 10:17 PM   #1412
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,481
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Expect Trump to get tremendous pressure from farmers - he'll have to cough up money to compensate them for the soy they won't sell to China.

He can do it with all that money China's paying us for the tariffs.

__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 11:06 PM   #1413
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,013
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
“This has been proven recently when only 4 points were paid by the U.S., 21 points by China because China subsidizes product to such a large degree.”

Can anyone tell me what “points” he might be referring to?
"Points" usually refer to percentage fees - although typically I've only heard it used in mobster films when they're talking about the interest rate being charged by a loan shark.

In the past, President Trump has claimed that China has borne the majority of the cost of the 25% tariff (21% of 25%) because they have dropped their prices to compensate US importers - leaving only 4% to be passed on to US consumers. As usual there is no evidence to support this claim and there is evidence to the contrary with rises in prices and squeezed margins for US importers.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 11:09 PM   #1414
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,239
Tariffs are a punishment for importers for not buying domestic products.
There is no other interpretation.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 11:18 PM   #1415
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,013
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Tariffs are a punishment for importers for not buying domestic products.
There is no other interpretation.
It may be an (or even the only, I'll leave others to argue that) interpretation for someone with a working knowledge of economics but for many (most ?) people there is an impression that the country doing the exporting pays the tariff out of their own pocket. This is a view which is repeated by the President of the United States, his administration and the right-wing media outlets who act as his cheerleaders so it's hardly surprising that this view persists.

I find it puzzling that the GOP, who is supposed to be the party of business, is so on board with these tariffs given orthodox economic theory that tariffs in general are not a great thing for an economy. We don't get all the news over here in the UK but from my perspective there has been a surprising lack of opposition to the tariffs from within the President's own party.

All of this is great news for the US' international competitors though, the EU should be rubbing its collective hands with glee.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 11:30 PM   #1416
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,466
This tariff situation reminds me of just a few months ago when Donny shut down the government to get his wall money. That was a miserable failure too. The old blockhead wouldn't be told beforehand, he was set on proving he was a "tough guy", and he went ahead against all the best advice and did it. He pissed off the whole country, totally failed to hurt the people he was aiming at, he hurt his own base instead, nothing changed at the border, and he never got his wall money anyway. Utter failure which he has since tried to sweep under a White House carpet.

But lo, he is trying the tough guy act again with his trade wars and tariffs. Despite all the advice it will be his base who pays and not China, and that it is not in the country's best economic interests, he has convinced himself he is right and away he goes.

We are left to wonder just how much of a failure THIS little debacle will be before he abandons it. Just like all the other failures in his life that he has shamelessly been allowed to walk away from.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015

Last edited by Norman Alexander; 13th May 2019 at 11:32 PM.
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 03:18 AM   #1417
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 49,183
I keep remembering that much of the fuss that led to the American Revolution was about tariffs. I'd have thought there would be a lesson in there somewhere.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 03:45 AM   #1418
Baylor
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,752
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post

But lo, he is trying the tough guy act again with his trade wars and tariffs. Despite all the advice it will be his base who pays and not China, and that it is not in the country's best economic interests, he has convinced himself he is right and away he goes.

We are left to wonder just how much of a failure THIS little debacle will be before he abandons it. Just like all the other failures in his life that he has shamelessly been allowed to walk away from.
Are you going to provide evidence for any of this?
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 03:48 AM   #1419
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,037
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Are you going to provide evidence for any of this?
Evidence that Trump is acting tough, or that Trump has convinced himself he is right? Or are you asking for evidence of Norman's speculation? Did you want evidence that chocolate tastes better than vanilla too?
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 04:19 AM   #1420
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 82,299
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Evidence that Trump is acting tough, or that Trump has convinced himself he is right? Or are you asking for evidence of Norman's speculation? Did you want evidence that chocolate tastes better than vanilla too?
I'd like evidence for the latter, please.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 04:47 AM   #1421
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 5,638
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Tariffs are a punishment for importers for not buying domestic products.
There is no other interpretation.
Well, it might be more objective to say that “Tariffs are an incentive to encourage importers to buy from domestic sources instead”.

As such, carefully crafted tariffs can be rationally supported. I think it was in the mid-1970’s when Harley Davidson was struggling mightily against Japanese imports, and a tariff was imposed on imported motorcycles 750cc and over. Though Harley is once again struggling, albeit for different reasons, those tariffs arguably did buy the company about 40 years of life. Which most would see as a good thing.

But Republicans have always favored free trade. Trump is either a moron or a liar or both when he says money from China is pouring into US coffers. Huge tariffs back and forth like these are not targeted and will cause pain all around.

And how did we get to the point where the power to impose tariffs fall on just one man? It seems more logical that congress have that power.
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 14th May 2019 at 04:49 AM.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 04:53 AM   #1422
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 26,470
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I find it puzzling that the GOP, who is supposed to be the party of business, is so on board with these tariffs given orthodox economic theory that tariffs in general are not a great thing for an economy. We don't get all the news over here in the UK but from my perspective there has been a surprising lack of opposition to the tariffs from within the President's own party.

.
Some Congressfolk have said that publicly pointing out the president’s errors or dishonesty will result in a primary race in which one of the challengers is a Trump disciple. The president’s followers form a very strong voting block, so it would be likely for President atrump’s critic to lose the primary race. Then when the election for that seat came up, the Trumpian candidate would most likely lose to the (non-crazy) opposition candidate. So each representative has to decide whether to turn his or her seat over to a Democrat or to remain silent as the president alienates allies, adopts policies that don’t support American interests, advertises his weaknesses to those sitting across the negotiation table, and advances the idea that truth and evidence are “enemies of the people.”

ETA
Aggrandizes despots and tyrants, appoints relatives and cronies to key positions, acts as if Russia holds compromising information over him, allows the Saudis to go unchallenged, and attacks the English language with an unwavering passion

Assonance above all. Always assonance.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.

Last edited by Ladewig; 14th May 2019 at 05:22 AM.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 04:56 AM   #1423
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 20,765
Trump Tweets

In one year Tariffs have rebuilt our Steel Industry - it is booming! We placed a 25% Tariff on “dumped” steel from China & other countries, and we now have a big and growing industry. We had to save Steel for our defense and auto industries, both of which are coming back strong!

China buys MUCH less from us than we buy from them, by almost 500 Billion Dollars, so we are in a fantastic position. Make your product at home in the USA and there is no Tariff. You can also buy from a non-Tariffed country instead of China. Many companies are leaving China.....

....so that they will be more competitive for USA buyers. We are now a much bigger economy than China, and have substantially increased in size since the great 2016 Election. We are the “piggy bank” that everyone wants to raid and take advantage of. NO MORE!
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 04:57 AM   #1424
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 20,765
Employment of Steel workers is down 4% since 4 years ago. And here is Steel production.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 04:59 AM   #1425
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 20,765
Trump Tweets

We can make a deal with China tomorrow, before their companies start leaving so as not to lose USA business, but the last time we were close they wanted to renegotiate the deal. No way! We are in a much better position now than any deal we could have made. Will be taking in....

Billions of Dollars, and moving jobs back to the USA where they belong. Other countries are already negotiating with us because they don’t want this to happen to them. They must be a part of USA action. This should have been done by our leaders many years ago. Enjoy!

When the time is right we will make a deal with China. My respect and friendship with President Xi is unlimited but, as I have told him many times before, this must be a great deal for the United States or it just doesn’t make any sense. We have to be allowed to make up some.....

....of the tremendous ground we have lost to China on Trade since the ridiculous one sided formation of the WTO. It will all happen, and much faster than people think!

Our great Patriot Farmers will be one of the biggest beneficiaries of what is happening now. Hopefully China will do us the honor of continuing to buy our great farm product, the best, but if not your Country will be making up the difference based on a very high China buy......

....This money will come from the massive Tariffs being paid to the United States for allowing China, and others, to do business with us. The Farmers have been “forgotten” for many years. Their time is now!

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 14th May 2019 at 05:01 AM.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 05:00 AM   #1426
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 82,299
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Employment of Steel workers is down 4% since 4 years ago.
Maybe he means "boom" in the other sense.





By the way, I object to your change in avatar; it's confusing as hell! You bring back Jack Dalton right now, or I'll change mine!
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 05:04 AM   #1427
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,239
Well, Trump can take full credit for Steele's production.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 05:08 AM   #1428
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 20,765
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Maybe he means "boom" in the other sense.





By the way, I object to your change in avatar; it's confusing as hell! You bring back Jack Dalton right now, or I'll change mine!

I agree it confuses me too. I keep missing my own posts.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 05:08 AM   #1429
TellyKNeasuss
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,056
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Evidence that Trump is acting tough, or that Trump has convinced himself he is right? Or are you asking for evidence of Norman's speculation? Did you want evidence that chocolate tastes better than vanilla too?
But green mint chocolate chip tastes better than chocolate.
__________________
"Facts are stupid things."
Ronald Reagan


TellyKNeasuss is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 05:11 AM   #1430
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 82,299
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I agree it confuses me too. I keep missing my own posts.
Let me help you: CTRL-F "Trump tweets".
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 06:00 AM   #1431
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump praises another right wing dictator today, joking that they are both controversial.

Trump meets Viktor Orban in White House

Apparently a lot of the left simply fled the country, and that favors Orban.
Controversial is an interesting euphemism for xenophobic, fascist, anti-Semite.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 06:10 AM   #1432
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 27,120
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
China has other means of retaliation.
Most importantly, unlike what Trump thinks, how the US treats China on trade does bleed into anything China does, including their claim to Taiwan, the SCS, their role in Africa, the New Silk Road and, most importantly, North Korea.

Trump is that one neighbor who lets his dog **** on your lawn, and then asks you to pay half to repair the fence he installed ten years ago (literally, in Mexico's case at least).


Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
....This money will come from the massive Tariffs being paid to the United States for allowing China, and others, to do business with us. The Farmers have been “forgotten” for many years. Their time is now!

That one word right there says it all about how Trump views business. You should be fawning all over him for granting his gracious permission to allow you to spend money at his establishment. Absolutely no understanding that trade is based on mutually beneficial agreements.
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 06:14 AM   #1433
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
That one word right there says it all about how Trump views business. You should be fawning all over him for granting his gracious permission to allow you to spend money at his establishment. Absolutely no understanding that trade is based on mutually beneficial agreements.
He sees all trade interactions as a zero sum game with a winner and a loser. It's a return to mercantilism.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 07:07 AM   #1434
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,469
Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
When people think of China, they think of cheap plastic dollar store toys and kitchen utensils.

They don't think of all the electronic components, metal/steel components, vehicle components, raw materials that can't be so easily sourced from other parts of the world, etc etc.

Trump really has no clue the long line of dominoes in play when it comes to (specifically) the various manufacturing industries.

He has no clue how much it can cost a company for every hour they might have to stop their assembly lines because they don't have the parts they need to manufacture their finish product, or the parts they've received are inferior.

As an example: When you're in the business of making transit buses, you can't just buy your chassis from any ol' supplier anywhere in the world. That chassis not only has to pass welding xrays and a dozen other engineering quality inspections, it also has to be made to the 1/1000th of a millimeter to your specs in order for it to fit all the other parts you have coming in from other suppliers around the world. It's a whole bunch of fine-tuned calibrated puzzle pieces that all have to fit together perfectly to make the end product (the transit bus).

Depending on the type of manufacturing industry you're in, the design schematics of your particular product and the specifications of the parts you need to slap it all together can be very detailed and customized.... a long process of design configurations and reconfigurations between you and your supplier(s) before their manufactured component meets your needs.
Of course the steel from europe is also tarrifed and not given exceptions even when no one else in the world makes it. Us steel of course says "sure we can do that, we won't but maybe we could so don't give them an exemption".
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 07:55 AM   #1435
lomiller
Philosopher
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,760
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post

But Republicans have always favored free trade. Trump is either a moron or a liar or both when he says money from China is pouring into US coffers. Huge tariffs back and forth like these are not targeted and will cause pain all around.
Educated people, including economists, are leaving the Republican party. As they do, the incentive to support sound economic policy declines and ultimately Republican economic policy will become worse than it already is.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 08:09 AM   #1436
TellyKNeasuss
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,056
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Our great Patriot Farmers will be one of the biggest beneficiaries of what is happening now.
Are Patriots classified as fruits or vegetables? Are they used as animal feed or are they sold in grocery stores?
__________________
"Facts are stupid things."
Ronald Reagan


TellyKNeasuss is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 08:14 AM   #1437
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 20,765
Trump Tweets

China will be pumping money into their system and probably reducing interest rates, as always, in order to make up for the business they are, and will be, losing. If the Federal Reserve ever did a “match,” it would be game over, we win! In any event, China wants a deal!
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 08:24 AM   #1438
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 31,444
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

China will be pumping money into their system and probably reducing interest rates, as always, in order to make up for the business they are, and will be, losing. If the Federal Reserve ever did a “match,” it would be game over, we win! In any event, China wants a deal!
Trump has no idea what he’s doing

Quote:
Trump’s standard negotiating practice — pitching some kind of fit at the very last minute, when the other party thought things were settled, in hopes of bullying his way to a better deal.

That might work with a subcontractor who doesn’t have the power to say no, or even with a fellow developer who vows on the spot never to do business with Trump again. But would any skilled negotiator think such a stunt would work with China, the world’s second-greatest economic power? Wouldn’t the Chinese government have to react in kind, if only as a matter of sovereign pride? And wouldn’t startled investors conclude that their fear of a serious trade war — the kind with no winners, only losers — had been realized?

I assume Trump realizes that China isn’t really “paying” the tariffs and that the cost is in fact borne by U.S. consumers, who will pay higher prices for made-in-China goods. Either the president constantly lies about this on his Twitter feed, hoping to fool the gullible, or he’s even more clueless about trade than I imagined.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 08:29 AM   #1439
lobosrul5
Graduate Poster
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,674
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Trump has no idea what he’s doing

Trump’s standard negotiating practice — pitching some kind of fit at the very last minute, when the other party thought things were settled, in hopes of bullying his way to a better deal.

That might work with a subcontractor who doesn’t have the power to say no, or even with a fellow developer who vows on the spot never to do business with Trump again. But would any skilled negotiator think such a stunt would work with China, the world’s second-greatest economic power? Wouldn’t the Chinese government have to react in kind, if only as a matter of sovereign pride? And wouldn’t startled investors conclude that their fear of a serious trade war — the kind with no winners, only losers — had been realized?

I assume Trump realizes that China isn’t really “paying” the tariffs and that the cost is in fact borne by U.S. consumers, who will pay higher prices for made-in-China goods. Either the president constantly lies about this on his Twitter feed, hoping to fool the gullible, or he’s even more clueless about trade than I imagined.
I kinda hate to say it, but Trump is in a way, right. Our market is more important to China, than China is to the USA. But, they aren't a democracy. They can hold out longer than any US government can. If both countries keep raising tariffs on one another both will go into a recession. In the USA that means the opposing party will be elected, in China... the communist party will still be in charge in 2021.
lobosrul5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 08:56 AM   #1440
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 9,215
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
I kinda hate to say it, but Trump is in a way, right. Our market is more important to China, than China is to the USA. But, they aren't a democracy. They can hold out longer than any US government can. If both countries keep raising tariffs on one another both will go into a recession. In the USA that means the opposing party will be elected, in China... the communist party will still be in charge in 2021.
I wonder if China will meddle in the way Russia did, trying to get a more malleable president.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:07 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.