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Tags border walls , donald trump , immigration issues , Trump controversies

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Old 15th May 2019, 01:06 PM   #1001
Dr. Keith
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Wow. Now, that was a well argued rebuttal.
You've clearly been bested. Nothing more to see here. (That's what we're using so that certain members aren't confused by sarcasm, right?)
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Old 15th May 2019, 03:59 PM   #1002
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
I didn't mention the ethnicity or race of the rapists but Smugglers/coyotes are Hispanic. Whatever if you think you there's a gotcha somewhere....just imagine it I don't care, this place is just creepy.
I wasn't the least bit interested in the race of the rapists, just the nationality and location. They are American. They are border force employees, some of them. They are supposed to assist or at least operate legally. They prey on illegal immigrants. They have been doing it for years. ...and you are now trying to tell me this is something else.

Any other excuses?
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:17 PM   #1003
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
You've clearly been bested. Nothing more to see here. (That's what we're using so that certain members aren't confused by sarcasm, right?)
I surely have been. Who can successfully argue the 'whatever' tactic?
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Old 15th May 2019, 07:20 PM   #1004
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Rule of Whatever.

We Gen Xers excel at it in a non-commital sort of way.
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Old 15th May 2019, 08:32 PM   #1005
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I wasn't the least bit interested in the race of the rapists, just the nationality and location. They are American. They are border force employees, some of them. They are supposed to assist or at least operate legally. They prey on illegal immigrants. They have been doing it for years. ...and you are now trying to tell me this is something else.

Any other excuses?
yawn
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Old 15th May 2019, 08:54 PM   #1006
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
yawn
You don't care? Well, I'm convinced.
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Old 15th May 2019, 11:41 PM   #1007
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Interesting and revealing graph. Years previous to 2019, the rate was around 50,000 per month, year on year. Trump opens his yap about some "National Emergency" and the rate doubles in a month or two.
So Trump's attempt to stem the flow isn't just ineffective, he's actually making it worse!
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Old 16th May 2019, 04:27 AM   #1008
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
So Trump's attempt to stem the flow isn't just ineffective, he's actually making it worse!
SOP for Trump. This isn't the first time. It's actually become axiomatic that if you want a successful business to fail then get Trump involved.
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Old 16th May 2019, 04:56 PM   #1009
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
So Trump's attempt to stem the flow isn't just ineffective, he's actually making it worse!

Ya sure, they all heard Trump say something and decided to come en masse, just because. Some people would really love for us to believe that.

These caravans didn't just spring up on their own. This is not what the kids today like to call an "organic" situation. There is money and politics involved and it is well organized.

Who is paying for their food on this weeks or months long journey? Do people here think they brought enough cash with them for this trip? Even if they did they'd get robbed.

I've done the Baja 1000 and we got pulled over by Federales many times and had to give away racing merchandise, hats, even the team jerseys so they'd let us go. They are friendly to the racers so they didn't want cash really, not that I saw.

Others will even stage car crashes and rob you. I mean crashing into you. They literally line up on the side of the roads and wait for you. We drove in a kind of tight convoy when we saw this so that they couldn't get us with that trick. They just bump you knowing that Americans will stop for a collision.

I know I couldn't afford a many weeks long journey without some income. Just food alone would break me. Aren't these people dirt poor?

Who is funding these trips? Somebody must be. I know the Pope gave half a million but that mainly went to churches that can help house and feed people.

In any case, we can't let in every person who wants to come here. Can we? Isn't that really what all this boils down to? That is the important part of this to me. It is not sustainable and it is in our best interest to stop this.

I see no point in continuing to try to convince people here of that so I am not going to waste my carpal tunnel on it here anymore.
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Old 16th May 2019, 05:37 PM   #1010
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Ya sure, they all heard Trump say something and decided to come en masse, just because. Some people would really love for us to believe that.

These caravans didn't just spring up on their own. This is not what the kids today like to call an "organic" situation. There is money and politics involved and it is well organized.

Who is paying for their food on this weeks or months long journey? Do people here think they brought enough cash with them for this trip? Even if they did they'd get robbed.

I've done the Baja 1000 and we got pulled over by Federales many times and had to give away racing merchandise, hats, even the team jerseys so they'd let us go. They are friendly to the racers so they didn't want cash really, not that I saw.

Others will even stage car crashes and rob you. I mean crashing into you. They literally line up on the side of the roads and wait for you. We drove in a kind of tight convoy when we saw this so that they couldn't get us with that trick. They just bump you knowing that Americans will stop for a collision.

I know I couldn't afford a many weeks long journey without some income. Just food alone would break me. Aren't these people dirt poor?

Who is funding these trips? Somebody must be. I know the Pope gave half a million but that mainly went to churches that can help house and feed people.

In any case, we can't let in every person who wants to come here. Can we? Isn't that really what all this boils down to? That is the important part of this to me. It is not sustainable and it is in our best interest to stop this.

I see no point in continuing to try to convince people here of that so I am not going to waste my carpal tunnel on it here anymore.
Most of these refugees haven't done the Baja 1000, and don't drive anything worth bumping into. In fact, don't drive anything.

They are dirt-poor and living hand to mouth day-to-day with nothing. And they have been harassed by their own stand-over guys. That's why they are leaving wherever it is they are leaving, and going to the USA! Even stoop-labour gets paid. The locals sometimes give them some food, but usually they are starving. They haven't been paid to cause a problem, because they haven't been paid at all.

And of course you can't let just anyone into the USA. Stop playing the slippery-slope fallacy. All refugee applicants need to be processed to ensure they are genuine refugee applicants. Everyone gets that. So what you need to do this properly is to invest in more border screening resources. More housing to decently house refugees and feed them. More judges to hear the applications and rule on them. Smarter people and systems involved, not the gun-totin' chest-thumpin' thugs who take advantage of these refugees and do nothing.
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Old 17th May 2019, 03:41 AM   #1011
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Trump Tweets

Border Patrol is apprehending record numbers of people at the Southern Border. The bad “hombres,” of which there are many, are being detained & will be sent home. Those which we release under the ridiculous Catch & Telease loophole, are being registered and will be removed later!

The Democrats now realize that there is a National Emergency at the Border and that, if we work together, it can be immediately fixed. We need Democrat votes and all will be well!
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Old 17th May 2019, 03:59 AM   #1012
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Trump Tweets

All people that are illegally coming into the United States now will be removed from our Country at a later date as we build up our removal forces and as the laws are changed. Please do not make yourselves too comfortable, you will be leaving soon!

Will the Democrats give our Country a badly needed immigration win before the election? Good chance!
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Old 17th May 2019, 12:48 PM   #1013
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

All people that are illegally coming into the United States now will be removed from our Country at a later date as we build up our removal forces and as the laws are changed. Please do not make yourselves too comfortable, you will be leaving soon!

Will the Democrats give our Country a badly needed immigration win before the election? Good chance!

"Removal forces"?
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Old 17th May 2019, 04:53 PM   #1014
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post

In any case, we can't let in every person who wants to come here. Can we?
Probably not, but it might be up for debate. The entire population of the "three Mexican countries" is 32 million, and they're not all coming. There is apparently a shortage of unskilled labor, though these people aren't necessarily unskilled. And they don't necessarily want to be here permanently. Did Ireland empty out in the 1840s?

For all I know it may be farm conglomerates paying their way up. Kind of like with Okies in 1936.

Trump's immigration plan is going to get quietly targeted by U.S. agricultural interests. The GOP tried to get a bill through requiring all employers to use E-Verify. Farm states would not back it. And that's when Republicans had the House. Trump is addressing "exceptional talent" visas - like Melania had - and "chain migration," like Melania's parents had. But there's also structurally a need for more ordinary working people to be paying into the Social Security system, and the ones coming up from Central America are probably pretty young and healthy. It would be interesting to analyze how many we might be able to absorb and benefit from. The U.S. fertility rate is the lowest it's been in 3 decades.

Private prison companies are going to love Lindsey Graham's proposal, which calls for more detention of families seeking asylum. As far as I can tell, Trump does not address the reason for the "emergency": asylum laws. According to Graham, "The White House’s plan is not designed to become law. This is designed to become law.” What does that even mean - "not designed to become law"? What's the point, then?
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:13 PM   #1015
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Border Patrol is apprehending record numbers of people at the Southern Border. The bad “hombres,” of which there are many, are being detained & will be sent home. Those which we release under the ridiculous Catch & Telease loophole, are being registered and will be removed later!
Catch & Telease? That's lame even by Trump standards.
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:14 PM   #1016
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
The U.S. fertility rate is the lowest it's been in 3 decades.
Don't worry, we have We have a plan to reverse that - and in Mexico too!

How US organizations support anti-abortion laws in Mexico
Quote:
Mexico is a major focus for anti-abortion campaigners, including Human Life International. With the group's financial support, at least 160 anti-abortion centers have been opened across the country and across Latin America.

Some of the activities the group supports in Mexico include lobbying politicians, hosting conferences, organizing protests and staging social media activism. It closely follows the efforts of foreign anti-abortion groups, occasionally going so far as to send US representatives to work alongside them.
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:18 PM   #1017
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Don't worry, we have We have a plan to reverse that - and in Mexico too!

How US organizations support anti-abortion laws in Mexico
I was surprised to see an abortion clinic in central Oaxaca City. They has a sign. That was 10 years ago. Mexico is fairly progressive in some ways. Don't know if that's changed.

Of course, you don't need to be all that progressive to support legal abortion.

ETA: Update from Wikipedia. It's illegal in parts of Mexico and the women get prosecuted.

Last edited by Minoosh; 17th May 2019 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:23 PM   #1018
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Probably not, but it might be up for debate. The entire population of the "three Mexican countries" is 32 million, and they're not all coming. There is apparently a shortage of unskilled labor, though these people aren't necessarily unskilled. And they don't necessarily want to be here permanently. Did Ireland empty out in the 1840s?

For all I know it may be farm conglomerates paying their way up. Kind of like with Okies in 1936.

Trump's immigration plan is going to get quietly targeted by U.S. agricultural interests. The GOP tried to get a bill through requiring all employers to use E-Verify. Farm states would not back it. And that's when Republicans had the House. Trump is addressing "exceptional talent" visas - like Melania had - and "chain migration," like Melania's parents had. But there's also structurally a need for more ordinary working people to be paying into the Social Security system, and the ones coming up from Central America are probably pretty young and healthy. It would be interesting to analyze how many we might be able to absorb and benefit from. The U.S. fertility rate is the lowest it's been in 3 decades.

Private prison companies are going to love Lindsey Graham's proposal, which calls for more detention of families seeking asylum. As far as I can tell, Trump does not address the reason for the "emergency": asylum laws. According to Graham, "The White House’s plan is not designed to become law. This is designed to become law.” What does that even mean - "not designed to become law"? What's the point, then?
Yeah, who's going to do all the landscape work? It's not like there are white Americans begging for those jobs.
Trump's Jared's immigration plan is to bring in lots of skilled folks who already speak English. Ya' know where there are a lot of those? India.

Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Catch & Telease? That's lame even by Trump standards.
I started to reply to that and edit the typo for you, then took a second look and realized it's a Trumpo. Does his phone not have any autocorrect?
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:24 PM   #1019
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I was surprised to see an abortion clinic in central Oaxaca City. They has a sign. That was 10 years ago. Mexico is fairly progressive in some ways. Don't know if that's changed.

Of course, you don't need to be all that progressive to support legal abortion.

ETA: Update from Wikipedia. It's illegal in parts of Mexico and the women get prosecuted.
True. You just have to believe that you don't have the right to control another person's body due to your own personal beliefs.
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Old 18th May 2019, 11:56 AM   #1020
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
Your interpretation of what Stacyhs said is so bizarre that it's difficult to read it as anything but dishonesty. There is no denial and no mockery, except of Trump's consistent lies on the matter.

Also, she specifically mentions Trump in the very next post, which should really eliminate the repeated objection you've doggedly been clinging to that no reference to Trump was made.
The first paragraph...

A tactic from other threads, for example on the behaviour of UK police officers.
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Old 18th May 2019, 12:11 PM   #1021
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It's interesting how deeply certain people who ordinarily don't give two extrements about sexual assault and the plight of vulnerable women can suddenly care once they can use it as ammunition to pwn the libs.
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Old 18th May 2019, 12:33 PM   #1022
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
It's interesting how deeply certain people who ordinarily don't give two extrements about sexual assault and the plight of vulnerable women can suddenly care once they mistakenly think can use it as ammunition to pwn the libs.
minor correction
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Old 18th May 2019, 12:42 PM   #1023
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
minor correction
Thanks.
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Old 18th May 2019, 01:08 PM   #1024
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
minor correction
Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Thanks.
The longer answer has been given upthread by others, but the word "disingenuous" would fit as one has to work hard to misinterpret the posts.
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Old 18th May 2019, 01:19 PM   #1025
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The longer answer has been given upthread by others, but the word "disingenuous" would fit as one has to work hard to misinterpret the posts.
And then work even harder to defend that misinterpretation.
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Old 18th May 2019, 04:37 PM   #1026
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Trump Tweets

Courts & Dems in Congress, neither of which have a clue, are trying to FORCE migrants into our Country! OUR COUNTRY IS FULL, OUR DETENTION CENTERS, HOSPITALS & SCHOOLS ARE PACKED. Crazy!
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Old 18th May 2019, 05:01 PM   #1027
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Courts & Dems in Congress, neither of which have a clue, are trying to FORCE migrants into our Country! OUR COUNTRY IS FULL, OUR DETENTION CENTERS, HOSPITALS & SCHOOLS ARE PACKED. Crazy!
Oh, good lord. What a pile of crap. How are they FORCING migrants into our country? I suppose the migrants are receiving letters from our courts and Congressional Dems stating "Migrate now. We know where you live! Don't call the cops or your dog dies!"
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Old 18th May 2019, 05:10 PM   #1028
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America is full?
At least nine states have more cows than people.
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Old 18th May 2019, 11:24 PM   #1029
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Probably not, but it might be up for debate. The entire population of the "three Mexican countries" is 32 million, and they're not all coming. There is apparently a shortage of unskilled labor, though these people aren't necessarily unskilled. And they don't necessarily want to be here permanently. Did Ireland empty out in the 1840s?

For all I know it may be farm conglomerates paying their way up. Kind of like with Okies in 1936.

<snip>

They are, and quite (sort of) legally, too.

Here's a good in-depth article about the H2 visa program, and how one man turned it into a personal gold mine.

Enriching more than a few others, and contributing to quite a few of the illegals Trump whines about as a side market.

It's a long article, but that's because it's detailed.

Well worth a read, and might give the reader a different perspective on the "illegals who are taking American jobs", and just how serious the "crisis at the border" really is.
Quote:
Here's the first few paragraphs;

In November 2009, seven men got off a bus in Monterrey, Mexico, and made their way through the crowded and chaotic downtown to the concrete box that housed the United States Consulate.

Inside, the men told a consular officer that they had been invited to work as janitors at the Sugar Mountain ski resort in Banner Elk, North Carolina. They had gone the previous season and were returning; all they needed were their new guest worker visas, which had already been approved, and they would be on their way north.

The Monterrey consulate is one of the world’s busiest, processing more than 400,000 visas each year, and it’s the single largest issuer of the kind the men were awaiting: H-2 visas, given to unskilled “guest workers” for temporary jobs in everything from tobacco farms to landscaping to shellfish peeling. The consulate cranks out an average of nearly 300 every single day.

But on this day, the State Department employee hesitated, then placed a call to the ski resort. It had been a warmer autumn than usual, and Sugar Mountain wasn’t yet open to the public; the consular officer was told that the resort needed snowmakers, not janitors. Stranger still was that the guest worker visa application, filed by a year-old company called Winterscapes, proposed sending nearly 250 Mexican janitors to two small ski resorts in the Blue Ridge Mountains that winter.

Something wasn’t right.

The visas were denied. And the consular official dashed off an urgent cable raising serious doubts about Winterscapes. Two months later, federal agents launched Operation Hammerlock, a criminal investigation that quickly grew, spreading over multiple states and encompassing several federal law enforcement agencies as its focus shifted to the country boy in North Carolina who helped line up the visas.

That man, a former state employee by the name of Stan Eury, is widely credited as the largest importer of H-2 guest workers in American history: a legal coyote who saw in the complicated crenellations of federal immigration law a way to expand a little-known program into a giant. He lobbied Washington, worked the courts, and negotiated the underworld of Mexican recruiters in order to provide customers across the country the cheap foreign labor they wanted — and in the process build himself a vast and lucrative empire.
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Last edited by quadraginta; 18th May 2019 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 18th May 2019, 11:45 PM   #1030
quadraginta
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
America is full?
At least nine states have more cows than people.

And those (among others) are crying for more farm workers.
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Old 20th May 2019, 04:43 AM   #1031
Mongrel
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The first paragraph...

A tactic from other threads, for example on the behaviour of UK police officers.
I found the You Tube series "The Alt-Right Playbook" an enlightening watch;
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It gives a good overview of strategies (and some history) of the way certain groups garner attention.
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Old Yesterday, 10:09 AM   #1032
Captain_Swoop
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I am very disappointed that Mexico is doing virtually nothing to stop illegal immigrants from coming to our Southern Border where everyone knows that because of the Democrats, our Immigration Laws are totally flawed & broken...

...Mexico’s attitude is that people from other countries, including Mexico, should have the right to flow into the U.S. & that U.S. taxpayers should be responsible for the tremendous costs associated w/this illegal migration. Mexico is wrong and I will soon be giving a response!
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Old Yesterday, 07:55 PM   #1033
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

I am very disappointed that Mexico is doing virtually nothing to stop illegal immigrants from coming to our Southern Border where everyone knows that because of the Democrats, our Immigration Laws are totally flawed & broken...

...Mexico’s attitude is that people from other countries, including Mexico, should have the right to flow into the U.S. & that U.S. taxpayers should be responsible for the tremendous costs associated w/this illegal migration. Mexico is wrong and I will soon be giving a response!
So he's blaming Mexico for US immigration policy and procedural issues? And his "solution" is to punish Mexico for that?

¡Qué completo y absoluto imbécil!
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Old Today, 09:10 AM   #1034
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Much of the Wall being built at the Southern Border is a complete demolition and rebuilding of old and worthless barriers with a brand new Wall and footings. Problem is, the Haters say that is not a new Wall, but rather a renovation. Wrong, and we must build where most needed....

....Also, tremendous work is being done on pure renovation - fixing existing Walls that are in bad condition and ineffective, and bringing them to a very high standard!
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Old Today, 09:39 AM   #1035
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post

Stop playing thick.
That's a terrible accusation, and I don't believe it for a second.
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Old Today, 05:03 PM   #1036
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Much of the Wall being built at the Southern Border is a complete demolition and rebuilding of old and worthless barriers with a brand new Wall and footings. Problem is, the Haters say that is not a new Wall, but rather a renovation. Wrong, and we must build where most needed....

....Also, tremendous work is being done on pure renovation - fixing existing Walls that are in bad condition and ineffective, and bringing them to a very high standard!
More and more often his objections prove what he is objecting to...
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