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Tags drug scandals , Michael Gove , Rory Steward , Tories , uk politics

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Old 8th June 2019, 02:53 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Employees at MacDonalds get sacked if they fail the drug tests, you're barred from teaching, barred from the USA at any hint of drug-taking
Maybe don't punish people for harmless recreational activities?
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Old 8th June 2019, 03:21 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh I see. Employees at MacDonalds get sacked if they fail the drug tests, you're barred from teaching, barred from the USA at any hint of drug-taking, yet Gove gets to be Education Secretary, crystal meth found at Sajid's old offices and he wants tougher sentences for drug possession (up to 7 years for cocaine) and you're claiming Gove didn't snort cocaine, Stewart didn't smoke heroin through a bong at a wedding, Raab didn't drink a TCH cannabis mixture and BoJo didn't snort cocaine because they wanted to get off their heads?

The law doesn't apply to any of these, I suppose?

Diane Abbott quaffs an M&S tin of Mojito (5% proof) on the overground and the Tories go berserk.

It's a mad mad world.
Hey I dont disagree with your point of view, It's the way you express it that takes me aback.

Hyperbole is one thing, but when people just make stuff up and put words into your mouth that you never said... that's another.

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Old 8th June 2019, 03:29 PM   #43
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As long as it was powder cocaine, used by mid to upper class whites, that's just fine. Crack cocaine, used by poor blacks, will get you life in prison.
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Old 8th June 2019, 03:38 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Exactly the same argument can be made about marijuana.
sorry to flog a dead horse, but..

And alcohol during US prohibition,
we don't have to guess about what happens with criminality when you prohibit something, US alcohol prohibition is a textbook example of what happens when you prohibit something.
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Old 8th June 2019, 06:27 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Apart from when he was justice minister he presided over locking people up who had made the same "mistake".
Still don't care. I sometimes choose to break the law (though for more minor things than drug offences); I take the risk, I get away with it or I don't. If I became a cop I'd prosecute criminals just as vigorously as I expect cops would prosecute me if they caught me. Seems fair.

Quote:
One wonders what the reaction would be if he was prosecuted for his confessed class A drug possession and use..
Is there a statute of limitations on that? I googled but couldn't find info.
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Old 9th June 2019, 01:20 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
Still don't care. I sometimes choose to break the law (though for more minor things than drug offences); I take the risk, I get away with it or I don't. If I became a cop I'd prosecute criminals just as vigorously as I expect cops would prosecute me if they caught me. Seems fair.





Is there a statute of limitations on that? I googled but couldn't find info.
We don't really have a statute of limitations for serious crimes, which class a drug misuse would fall under.
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:28 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh dear. Andrea Leadsom has now 'come out' to say she, too, was a drug user. She smoked weed at Warwick University.

According to one poster here, this makes her 'not dull and boring'.

Hands up anyone in the Tory leadership race who hasn't been totally out of their box on drugs?
Mmm, no, that was not what I said. You can make mistakes and still be dull and boring. Sorry, no easy way out there.

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Old 9th June 2019, 04:34 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
We don't really have a statute of limitations for serious crimes, which class a drug misuse would fall under.
Sajid Javid can start eliminating the competition then

On another note and a slight derail, I wonder if the press is holding back on Boris?

Closer to final selection, I am pretty sure something will turn up.

The press must have shed loads of stories on the nation's "favourite" political buffoon.

Osborne is also in the trade being editor of London Evening Standard, and has tried to stop Boris before.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...pretender.html
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Old 9th June 2019, 06:12 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Belgian thought View Post
Sajid Javid can start eliminating the competition then



On another note and a slight derail, I wonder if the press is holding back on Boris?



Closer to final selection, I am pretty sure something will turn up.



The press must have shed loads of stories on the nation's "favourite" political buffoon.



Osborne is also in the trade being editor of London Evening Standard, and has tried to stop Boris before.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...pretender.html
Sadly we already know Boris's past, in any fair system based on meritocracy he would never have been allowed into "high office" given what we know of his past, vandalism, drug taking, assault and so on.
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Old 9th June 2019, 06:49 AM   #50
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Boris "...admitted to GQ magazine in 2007 he tried cocaine and cannabis as a teenager at Oxford.

"I tried it at university and I remember it vividly. And it achieved no pharmacological, psychotropic or any other effect on me whatsoever."

then

"He later gave a different account while appearing on satirical TV panel show, Have I Got News For You.

On cannabis he said: "There was a period before university when I had quite a few (cannabis joints). It was jolly nice. But apparently it is very different these days. Much stronger."

If you're going to lie it's probably best to get your story straight and stick to it. Or just be honest in the first place.

eta: Ridiculous concept, now that I come to read it.
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Old 9th June 2019, 07:11 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
you're barred from teaching,.
Have a guess which Education Secretary put his name to that?

Here's a clue... it rhymes with Gichael Move
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Old 9th June 2019, 09:36 AM   #52
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I'm waiting for Rees-Mogg to come forward

"I would take laudenum, Nanny would fetch a new birch and we would party like it was 1899"
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Old 9th June 2019, 09:49 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I'm waiting for Rees-Mogg to come forward

"I would take laudenum, Nanny would fetch a new birch and we would party like it was 1899"
The Evening Harald beat you to it

http://eveningharold.com/2019/06/08/...um-with-nanny/
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Old 9th June 2019, 12:20 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The Evening Harald beat you to it

http://eveningharold.com/2019/06/08/...um-with-nanny/
To be fair it was a pretty obvious joke but they did it much better. Although I still think my birch comment adds colour.
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Old 9th June 2019, 01:05 PM   #55
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Seems to have backfired a little bit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...aine-admission

Which is very disappointing, shows a swing to the right.

3..2..1.. the others backtrack very quickly.

EDIT: As I grew up I always thought politicians knew what they were doing,

I'm now older than lots of politicians and It just seems to me now to be, that politicians are like squabbling kids, jostling for position and they will worry about the detail later.

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Old 9th June 2019, 01:51 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I'm waiting for Rees-Mogg to come forward

"I would take laudenum, Nanny would fetch a new birch and we would party like it was 1899"
I mostly know Rees-Mogg from Tracy Ullman's show. Is the nanny thing from her show or a more general meme?
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:02 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by carrps View Post
I mostly know Rees-Mogg from Tracy Ullman's show. Is the nanny thing from her show or a more general meme?
It's the fact that he affects the ultimate young fogey image and dresses. As well as his views:


https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/polit...20170629130748

He's also a Roman Catholic that's popular with the DUP.
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:09 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
As has been pointed out elsewhere by someone smarter than me, a poor person would be ruined by this kind of admission.
I'm still trying to figure out how this one is supposed to work. Did that smarter person ever explain it to you? Because I admit I'm stumped.
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:29 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Boris "...admitted to GQ magazine in 2007 he tried cocaine and cannabis as a teenager at Oxford.

"I tried it at university and I remember it vividly. And it achieved no pharmacological, psychotropic or any other effect on me whatsoever."

then

"He later gave a different account while appearing on satirical TV panel show, Have I Got News For You.

On cannabis he said: "There was a period before university when I had quite a few (cannabis joints). It was jolly nice. But apparently it is very different these days. Much stronger."

If you're going to lie it's probably best to get your story straight and stick to it. Or just be honest in the first place.

eta: Ridiculous concept, now that I come to read it.
Come on, the guy lives in Highbury. There would have been no end of 'drug-fuelled dinner parties'.
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:30 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I'm waiting for Rees-Mogg to come forward

"I would take laudenum, Nanny would fetch a new birch and we would party like it was 1899"
I picture Rees-Mogg as the type who would do drugs by suppository. He just seems the 'anal' type.
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:45 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Come on, the guy lives in Highbury. There would have been no end of 'drug-fuelled dinner parties'.
I'm sure there were.

I don't really understand your comment.
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:45 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm still trying to figure out how this one is supposed to work. Did that smarter person ever explain it to you? Because I admit I'm stumped.
What is it you are struggling with?
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:18 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
What is it you are struggling with?
It seems like an issue of perspective between the admission of doing it 20 years ago and if he had been caught I'd guess. If people are holding that the admission itself would be more damaging due to wealth as opposed to the specific occupation, I would also question how so.
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:31 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Exactly the same argument can be made about marijuana.
Not in my country.
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:39 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
What is it you are struggling with?
A plausible explanation for how the claim might be true.

Why do you ask? Do you have such an explanation?
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:41 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
It seems like an issue of perspective between the admission of doing it 20 years ago and if he had been caught I'd guess. If people are holding that the admission itself would be more damaging due to wealth as opposed to the specific occupation, I would also question how so.
The person in question is the very person who made it more difficult for someone who wasn't in a position of privilege to recover from being caught.
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:43 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
The person in question is the very person who made it more difficult for someone who wasn't in a position of privilege to recover from being caught.
We're not talking about being caught. We're talking about informally confessing two decades after the fact.

Specifically, we're taking about the claim that a poor person would be ruined by admitting to cocaine use twenty years prior.

I can't think of any western nation where such an admission would matter at all, except in the case of prominent public figures whose livelihood depends on their image.

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Old 9th June 2019, 03:44 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A plausible explanation for how the claim might be true.

Why do you ask? Do you have such an explanation?
I would have thought it doesn't even need explanation.

a teacher, child care worker, or similar who openly admitted to regularly taking cocaine in the past would probably lose their job. They may well be subject to criminal charges.

And the person who helped make this the case is using it to try to be edgy in the press.
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:48 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
I would have thought it doesn't even need explanation.



a teacher, child care worker, or similar who openly admitted to regularly taking cocaine in the past would probably lose their job. They may well be subject to criminal charges.



And the person who helped make this the case is using it to try to be edgy in the press.
Evidence?
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:50 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
We're not talking about being caught. We're talking about informally confessing two decades after the fact.

Specifically, we're taking about the claim that a poor person would be ruined by admitting to cocaine use twenty years prior.

I can't think of any western nation where such an admission would matter at all, except in the case of prominent public figures whose livelihood depends on their image.
It's ok to commit a crime if you don't get caught? I don't think Michael Gove would agree with you
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:55 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
It's ok to commit a crime if you don't get caught? I don't think Michael Gove would agree with you
I get the impression that the argument I'm asking you to make is so obvious inside your own head that it's never occurred to you that you have to actually make that argument to anyone else.

Instead of appealing to the "obviousness" of your own point of view, please consider actually explaining your point of view.
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Old 9th June 2019, 04:00 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Evidence?
evidence of what?
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Old 9th June 2019, 04:07 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
evidence of what?
Of any of the claims in the post I replied to.

To which I replied.
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Old 9th June 2019, 04:07 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I get the impression that the argument I'm asking you to make is so obvious inside your own head that it's never occurred to you that you have to actually make that argument to anyone else.

Instead of appealing to the "obviousness" of your own point of view, please consider actually explaining your point of view.
Fair enough.

I will do my best.

1. Had someone else did what Michael Gove did, Michael Gove thinks they shouldn't be allowed to work as a teacher or similar.

2. A lot of people who aren't Michael Gove went to jail for what Michael Gove did and Michael Gove thinks that's right

3. The only resolution to the above that can make logical sense is 'it's OK to commit a crime if you don't get caught'

4. Michael Gove doesn''t believe #3
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Old 10th June 2019, 03:17 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Apart from when he was justice minister he presided over locking people up who had made the same "mistake". One wonders what the reaction would be if he was prosecuted for his confessed class A drug possession and use..

The sentence for possession is, to use the website of the department he ran:
https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing

Up to 7 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both
"You can get a fine or prison sentence if you:
take drugs
•carry drugs
•make drugs
•sell, deal or share drugs (also called ‘supplying’ them)"

Possession is certainly illegal, but this is a strange thing to claim, since it's been established that, once taken, a person is no longer in possession, and cannot be prosecuted as such. Generally speaking, prosecutions after the fact simply on the say-so that someone took drugs in the past are effectively non-existent.
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Old 10th June 2019, 03:22 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
False dichotoboloxicus, people can take cocaine without being addicts.
Lots of people, in fact. Around 3 million people in England & Wales have taken cocaine at least once, the vast majority of whom obviously did not become addicts.

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Old 10th June 2019, 03:27 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
We're not talking about being caught. We're talking about informally confessing two decades after the fact.

Specifically, we're taking about the claim that a poor person would be ruined by admitting to cocaine use twenty years prior.

I can't think of any western nation where such an admission would matter at all, except in the case of prominent public figures whose livelihood depends on their image.
Twenty years is nothing.

A criminal conviction of any kind would bar you from many professional bodies, for example, accountancy, without your having to make a 'special application' asking for an exception (in other words, unlikely to succeed).

All sorts of barriers will go up.
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Old 10th June 2019, 03:30 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Lots of people, in fact. Around 3 million people in England & Wales have taken cocaine at least once, the vast majority of who did not become addicts.
It doesn't detract from the fact that cocaine is highly addictive.

Have a look at the images of Danielle Westbrook, for example, if you are trying to claim it doesn't ruin lives.
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Old 10th June 2019, 03:34 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It doesn't detract from the fact that cocaine is highly addictive.
So why don't we have three million addicts?

Quote:
Have a look at the images of Danielle Westbrook, for example, if you are trying to claim it doesn't ruin lives.
Since I'm not, why should I? Numerically far more people have their lives/health ruined by alcohol, but that's fine because... reasons. People even laugh and joke on Monday mornings about how drunk they got at the weekend.

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Old 10th June 2019, 04:39 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It doesn't detract from the fact that cocaine is highly addictive.

Have a look at the images of Danielle Westbrook, for example, if you are trying to claim it doesn't ruin lives.
My, very possibly false, understanding is that cocaine is not actually chemically addictive (in the way that Nicotine is). It can however be psychologically addictive as in people really like the effect it has on them so want to do it again...and again.

Not arguing with your point, just posting in the lazy hope that someone will confirm or correct my understanding...
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