Kentucky Dragon Gun Kidnap Black Kid Chaos

William Parcher

Show me the monkey!
William Parcher
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Jul 26, 2005
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I couldn't think of a good title so I just mashed all the bits together.


Video shows man waving gun at boy, witnesses after alleged kidnapping in Louisville, Kentucky

WLKY said:
A man is facing several charges after police said he kidnapped a 13-year-old from a grocery store.

An arrest report says Fabao Chen, 58, went to the Kroger on 27th and Broadway in the Parkland neighborhood on Tuesday and took a young teen against his will.

Sean Jenkins had just come out of Kroger and said he was loading groceries into his car when he saw what was happening. "The man grabbed him by the arm and pulled a gun out then, and told him, 'No, you be still! You be still!' and I said, 'Hey, get that gun off of him!'" Jenkins said. "I'm like, 'Keep the gun on me man. Keep it off the kid.'"

Jenkins told police Chen held the gun to the boy's head as he walked him through the parking lot.

Police said Chen then forced the juvenile to Double Dragon Restaurant, which Chen said he owns. When they arrived, a big crowd formed and multiple people tried getting Chen to release the juvenile, police said. Jenkins said the boy was terrified. "He was saying, 'Let me go! I did not do anything!' He's crying. He's hysterical," Jenkins said.

Chen then pointed his gun at the crowd in what police called a "threatening manner."

Chen was eventually arrested by police at that location. Police also recovered his gun, which turned out to be a BB gun. "It most definitely looked like a real gun," Jenkins said.

During his arraignment, Chen told police the juvenile involved had been inside of his restaurant and had thrown a bottle...
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https://www.wlky.com/article/man-wi...le-from-louisville-kroger-police-say/27750539


Restaurant owner is accused of kidnapping a black 13-year-old boy at gunpoint and forcing him back to his eatery where the teen had reportedly been causing trouble and threw a bottle

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...IDNAPPING-black-13-year-old-boy-gunpoint.html
 

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Throwing a bottle is not an arrest-able offense. I can't imagine why, if the kid had been such a pain in the restaurant, the owner would want to go and bring him back when he finally left the premises. Mr. Chen obviously wasn't interested in calling the police on the child, so I wonder what he was thinking.
 
Checkmite said:
Throwing a bottle is not an arrest-able offense. I can't imagine why, if the kid had been such a pain in the restaurant, the owner would want to go and bring him back when he finally left the premises. Mr. Chen obviously wasn't interested in calling the police on the child, so I wonder what he was thinking.
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Maybe he was just marching the kid back to the scene of their bad behavior for an apology? he's old and people did do that years ago instead of calling the police, dementia possibly kicking in?
 
Aint it time to ban lookalike guns, "toy" guns are not protected by the 2nd
 
p0lka said:
Maybe he was just marching the kid back to the scene of their bad behavior for an apology? he's old and people did do that years ago instead of calling the police, dementia possibly kicking in?
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I can see an (ooold, really, very, extremely) old-school elder adult feeling that grabbing a child he has a problem with and dragging it anywhere he wants to for some disciplinary reason or other is something that's okay for him to do. That holding-a-gun-to-his-head thing though seems a little extreme, though, even for someone who's mentally living "in another time".
 
Checkmite said:
I can see an (ooold, really, very, extremely) old-school elder adult feeling that grabbing a child he has a problem with and dragging it anywhere he wants to for some disciplinary reason or other is something that's okay for him to do. That holding-a-gun-to-his-head thing though seems a little extreme, though, even for someone who's mentally living "in another time".
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When every hammer is a nail, shoot it with a gun..... or something like that.
 
Checkmite said:
Throwing a bottle is not an arrest-able offense.
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So, what's the alternative?


It seems like a really bad choice is threatening to kill the child by holding a fake gun to his head. That seems like the sort of action that could end very, very, badly.


But, what to do? In our modern world any sort of laying on of hands toward a youthful miscreant is taboo. If we also can't have the police act, what's left? Put up with kids throwing bottles? Give them dirty looks? If we go so far as actually yelling, I hear that's bad.


I'm trying to imagine the "right" thing to do in such a situation. The story doesn't say whether the 13 year old was accompanied either by his parents, other youths, or other adults. I'm guessing it must have been either the kid was alone, or perhaps with a friend or two. It seems to me that, confronted with a 13 year old troublemaker, the best thing to do would be to get the parents involved. i.e. force the kid to call his parents, and have the parents come get him, hoping that the shame will prompt the parents to provide whatever discipline they think is appropriate. However, that "force" part is problematic, as it might involve actually touching the kid, and apparently detaining the child while awaiting parents to arrive is kidnapping.


So, what to do?
 
Checkmite said:
Throwing a bottle is not an arrest-able offense. I can't imagine why, if the kid had been such a pain in the restaurant, the owner would want to go and bring him back when he finally left the premises. Mr. Chen obviously wasn't interested in calling the police on the child, so I wonder what he was thinking.
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None of this should have ever happened because it was a case of mistaken identity. This kid did not break a bottle.

"Let me go! I did not do anything!", is what the 13 year old boy said.

It should have stopped right there. End of story. Go find the actual bottle-breaker. This kid is not the one. Full stop.
 
William Parcher said:
None of this should have ever happened because it was a case of mistaken identity. This kid did not break a bottle.

"Let me go! I did not do anything!", is what the 13 year old boy said.

It should have stopped right there. End of story. Go find the actual bottle-breaker. This kid is not the one. Full stop.
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You are being sarcastic right?
 
Meadmaker said:
I'm trying to imagine the "right" thing to do in such a situation. The story doesn't say whether the 13 year old was accompanied either by his parents, other youths, or other adults. I'm guessing it must have been either the kid was alone, or perhaps with a friend or two. It seems to me that, confronted with a 13 year old troublemaker, the best thing to do would be to get the parents involved. i.e. force the kid to call his parents, and have the parents come get him, hoping that the shame will prompt the parents to provide whatever discipline they think is appropriate. However, that "force" part is problematic, as it might involve actually touching the kid, and apparently detaining the child while awaiting parents to arrive is kidnapping.


So, what to do?
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Call the police.

Throwing a bottle isn't an arrestable offense; but making arrests and shooting unarmed black people isn't all the police are good for. The police can compel a person of any age who's causing trouble to leave private property like a restaurant; they can also detain them (without going so far as an arrest) and find or contact their parents, and pass that information along.

In this particular case though, the child left on his own, which ended the problem; so what purpose did going after him with a gun and bringing him back serve?
 
Checkmite said:
In this particular case though, the child left on his own, which ended the problem; so what purpose did going after him with a gun and bringing him back serve?
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What evidence do you have that this black child was inside Double Dragon Restaurant?
 
William Parcher said:
What evidence do you have that this black child was inside Double Dragon Restaurant?
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The last sentence in your article quote from the OP is,

During his arraignment, Chen told police the juvenile involved had been inside of his restaurant and had thrown a bottle...
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Obviously I'm presuming any of that actually happened when answering Meadmaker's question about what the owner could and should have done about that situation, instead of what he did.

If the owner is lying and the child was never in the restaurant causing trouble, then of course he is either just a straightforward kidnapper or psychotic.
 
Checkmite said:
Call the police.

Throwing a bottle isn't an arrestable offense; but making arrests and shooting unarmed black people isn't all the police are good for. The police can compel a person of any age who's causing trouble to leave private property like a restaurant; they can also detain them (without going so far as an arrest) and find or contact their parents, and pass that information along.

In this particular case though, the child left on his own, which ended the problem; so what purpose did going after him with a gun and bringing him back serve?
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One thing missing from the story is how the bottle was thrown.

It could be that he and/or a friend were "horsing around", and one threw a bottle to the other. That's not what I'm picturing, though. I'm picturing some sort of temper tantrum that ended with a kid throwing a bottle at someone or something. That, in fact, is an arrestable offense, either assault or vandalism depending on where the bottle was thrown. Heck, it could even be that there was no thrown bottle. Maybe the kid just dropped it accidentally and the owner is a psycho. (No, I'm not being sarcastic there. I think that is one possibility, based on the limited evidence available.)

Depending on the nature of the thrown bottle, the appropriate response would differ. One totally inappropriate response would be to hold a gun to his head, whether or not the gun was fake. That was a bad choice, regardless of how the bottle was thrown. However, in my humble opinion, if the bottle was thrown violently, causing damage or threatening a person, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for the restaurant owner to physically accost the kid and detain him by force. I'm not being sarcastic there, either. I really think that would be reasonable.


Unfortunately, our society isn't reasonable, and so, now, what happens? Apparently, detaining a 13 year old against his will is kidnapping, so that's right out. The kid throws a bottle at someone, and walks away with some dirty looks, or the kid throws a bottle and the police are called and he ends up with a criminal conviction. Neither one sounds like a good outcome to me.
 
Checkmite said:
The last sentence in your article quote from the OP is,

Obviously I'm presuming any of that actually happened when answering Meadmaker's question about what the owner could and should have done about that situation, instead of what he did.

If the owner is lying and the child was never in the restaurant causing trouble, then of course he is either just a straightforward kidnapper or psychotic.
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The problem is your racism which is inherent in the position you have taken. Of course the black child was in that restaurant and of course the black child threw a bottle. After all, he is black.

Guilty until proven innocent is the everyday racism that black people face. You should be ashamed of being part of that. Even worse, is the fact that your support is the ravings of some gun-waving racist lunatic.
 
Offtopic:
I don't get the whole 'Throwing a bottle is not an arrestable offense.' thing.

Throwing a stone is not an arrestable offense either.

It's the consequences of that action that might become an arrestable offense, surely?

Ontopic:
I agree with Checkmite where the solution should have been 'call the police',
I was just pondering why the owner didn't, dementia a possibility?
a hark back to 'the good old days' where you could cuff youngsters ears with abandon etc to scare them into being good. The owner knew it was a bb gun.
 
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I cannot stress how much it does not matter whether or not the kid actually threw a bottle.
 
I Am The Scum said:
I cannot stress how much it does not matter whether or not the kid actually threw a bottle.
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In terms of whether or not he will be convicted of some sort of crime, no. It isn't significant.

In terms of exactly which crime he will be convicted of, including public sympathy that might affect juries, I think it could be quite significant. If there was a kid just being a little bit rowdy and breaking a soy sauce bottle, there won't be much sympathy. If there was a kid throwing soy sauce bottles at other patrons or deliberately vandalizing the place by throwing soy sauce bottles at the windows or decorations, I think a jury will be a lot more sympathetic.

This could also affect plea bargaining.
 
Sometimes, stories get weird.

Here's a followup story:


https://www.wdrb.com/news/mother-of...cle_96a7cace-8972-11e9-a35e-e778bedb7fb2.html

It contains this quote from the boy's mother:

"I did the research, had the school print out his attendance. He was at school Monday, and he was in The Boys and Girls Club Monday after school, so it was not him," she said.




Now, wait. The mother is denying that the bottle-breaker could not have been her son, because he was in school all day, then went to the Boys and Girls club, so it couldn't have been him.


Well, the kid was definitely on the scene. That was kind of the point of the story.



Or, was this a case where Chen, the restaurant owner, had an incident earlier in the day, but in a case of mistaken identity saw the kid (and his friends, friends were mentioned) and believed that the bottle breaker had returned to the scene of the crime?
Well that would be interesting, because if that's the actual story, then I'll bet that there was one particularly significant physical trait that the actual bottle breaker(assuming he exists) shared with the victim.


So either: We have a woman claiming that her son could have been at the scene of a crime where he, himself, was the victim.


Or


A restaurant owner has some bad patrons, who leave, and then the restaurant owner later sees some 13 year old black kids and assaults one of them, accusing him of breaking a bottle in a restaurant where he never was in.



Well this is why we have police and investigations. Hopefully, the police have some better information than the small snippets of conversation provided in the articles.
 
Meadmaker said:
So, what's the alternative?


It seems like a really bad choice is threatening to kill the child by holding a fake gun to his head. That seems like the sort of action that could end very, very, badly.


But, what to do? In our modern world any sort of laying on of hands toward a youthful miscreant is taboo. If we also can't have the police act, what's left? Put up with kids throwing bottles? Give them dirty looks? If we go so far as actually yelling, I hear that's bad.


I'm trying to imagine the "right" thing to do in such a situation. The story doesn't say whether the 13 year old was accompanied either by his parents, other youths, or other adults. I'm guessing it must have been either the kid was alone, or perhaps with a friend or two. It seems to me that, confronted with a 13 year old troublemaker, the best thing to do would be to get the parents involved. i.e. force the kid to call his parents, and have the parents come get him, hoping that the shame will prompt the parents to provide whatever discipline they think is appropriate. However, that "force" part is problematic, as it might involve actually touching the kid, and apparently detaining the child while awaiting parents to arrive is kidnapping.


So, what to do?
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Shoot them then claim you feared for your life. Helps to be a cop.
 
isissxn said:
Oi, no time for the ol' in-out, love, I've just come to read the meter, but I've got a tick for a Kentucky Dragon Gun, if you've the yarbles.
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:big:
Meadmaker said:
But, what to do? In our modern world any sort of laying on of hands toward a youthful miscreant is taboo. If we also can't have the police act, what's left? Put up with kids throwing bottles? Give them dirty looks? If we go so far as actually yelling, I hear that's bad.
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Why couldn't the police have acted here? :confused:
 
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