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Old 11th June 2019, 03:56 AM   #3961
RoboTimbo
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You work for zero $ and you get stuff for zero $ i thought you knew that.
Do you have to work to get stuff?
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Old 11th June 2019, 07:23 AM   #3962
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You work for zero $ and you get stuff for zero $ i thought you knew that.
And if you work for $100, you can get $100 worth of stuff. Much better than being a slave and getting slave wages.

You still haven't addressed the example in which I got free stuff for not fixing your plumbing. You can't flush your toilets and I'm living the good life because I got paid to, um, not fix your plumbing.
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Old 11th June 2019, 01:40 PM   #3963
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Do you have to work to get stuff?
You'll know that when you start to get hungry.
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Old 11th June 2019, 01:43 PM   #3964
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You'll know that when you start to get hungry.
Why would you get hungry?
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Old 11th June 2019, 01:43 PM   #3965
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You'll know that when you start to get hungry.
Your religious lying and avoiding answering says all I need to know.

What is your opinion on that religious child abuser I posted a link to?
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Old 11th June 2019, 02:30 PM   #3966
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You'll know that when you start to get hungry.
Do you know what we call a scenario where one is forced to work for free just to get food?

It has a name, you know.
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Old 11th June 2019, 03:58 PM   #3967
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In a discussion where a single individual paints the argument as they and their bestus buddy Jesus H. Christ against the deplorable infidels there isn't much hope for clarity or honesty.
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Old 11th June 2019, 08:42 PM   #3968
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You work for zero $ and you get stuff for zero $ i thought you knew that.
I would rather work for money and pay for stuff with money. That way I have the option of out working others so I can have a better life than others who are unwilling to do so.

What's wrong with that? I think most people would agree.
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Old 12th June 2019, 01:26 AM   #3969
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I would rather work for money and pay for stuff with money. That way I have the option of out working others so I can have a better life than others who are unwilling to do so.

What's wrong with that? I think most people would agree.
If there is no money to have you work, you'll do what? Migrate in US? My system works for everybody on earth yours only if rich spend their money. In my system you have tools and material to make a contributions in yours it only works if there is money spent.

Last edited by Gaetan; 12th June 2019 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 12th June 2019, 04:13 AM   #3970
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If there is no money to have you work, you'll do what? Migrate in US? My system works for everybody on earth yours only if rich spend their money. In my system you have tools and material to make a contributions in yours it only works if there is money spent.
Do you have to work to get stuff in your no-money world?
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Old 12th June 2019, 07:50 AM   #3971
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If there is no money to have you work, you'll do what? Migrate in US? My system works for everybody on earth yours only if rich spend their money. In my system you have tools and material to make a contributions in yours it only works if there is money spent.
Ok, RoboTimbo, The Man, JoeCool and I have decided to keep our local park clean as our contribution to society. So I start, 5 paces behind me is RoboTimbo, 5 behind him is The Man, and 5 more is Joe Cool. We are picking up trash. The thing is, Only the person in front is actually picking up trash. Everyone else is just taking a stroll.

Every lap, which takes 15 minutes, we rotate, like ducks. Guy in front goes to the back and we start all over again. While nobody would actually pay for this business model, it's work and a net positive to the community. After all, the park is spotless.

Now, to the math.

We effectively contribute to the community 40 hours of work a week as a group. That's 10 hours of work into the pool per person per week.

Let's say that basic living needs extracts 30 hours of work a week. Which means, as a group, we extract 120 hours from the community for our 40 hours.

This is where it falls apart. Our little enterprise extracts out of the community 80 hours a week more than we put into the pool. In the "money world" we can't do that because we can't extract more value than we take out. Because we don't get paid for it. With or without a medium for exchange, time, and effort retain a value.
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Old 12th June 2019, 08:01 AM   #3972
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just to add, my party does it for 8 hours. Another 4 does it for swing and another 4 for graveyard. That's 120 hours contributed and 360 hours extracted. A net loss for the community of 240 hours. And that is just for 1 park. In one city.
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Old 12th June 2019, 10:33 AM   #3973
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If there is no money to have you work
If there is no money, I have to work.

So why would I want no money if I still have to work? What happened to all the free stuff you talked about?
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Old 12th June 2019, 02:09 PM   #3974
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
If there is no money, I have to work.

So why would I want no money if I still have to work? What happened to all the free stuff you talked about?
How do you get food if you have no money, your system failed. In my system food is free of charge.
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Old 12th June 2019, 02:11 PM   #3975
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
How do you get food if you have no money, your system failed. In my system food is free of charge.
So nobody needs to work?
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Old 12th June 2019, 03:26 PM   #3976
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
How do you get food if you have no money, your system failed. In my system food is free of charge.
I work, so I have money so I can buy food, internet, cars and I have other things that I do with money.

Why would I want to work for free? Why would anyone want to work for free when you don't have to?

In your system, food is not free of charge. You said I would need to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaetan
If there is no money to have you work
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Old 13th June 2019, 07:10 AM   #3977
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
How do you get food if you have no money, your system failed. In my system food is free of charge.
Food banks, soup kitchens and any number of charities. Food isn't hard to get. It's the surplus created by the profit motive that makes it easy to get. If we were to switch to your subsistence model, the surplus would be gone and people would starve. And as I explained, and you ignored, your model instantly runs at a deficit, with people taking more out of the system than they have to put it.
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:52 PM   #3978
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Food banks, soup kitchens and any number of charities. Food isn't hard to get. It's the surplus created by the profit motive that makes it easy to get. If we were to switch to your subsistence model, the surplus would be gone and people would starve. And as I explained, and you ignored, your model instantly runs at a deficit, with people taking more out of the system than they have to put it.
there is no food banks everywhere
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Old 13th June 2019, 01:12 PM   #3979
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
there is no food banks everywhere
You're mad at me for mentioning the religious leaders who abuse and rape children but you aren't mad at them for doing it?

We definitely need to abolish religion. We should use money to do it.
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Old 14th June 2019, 12:39 AM   #3980
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
there is no food banks everywhere
Even though there is income disparity and some super wealthy people in the US, you would have to look carefully to find people who are actually starving or dying of malnutrition. People can utilize food stamps, food banks, soup lines and other resources to get food.

In a no money society, people won't be forced to work so there will be less production which will result in less food, therefore the possibility of people actually starving.

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Old 14th June 2019, 06:26 AM   #3981
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
there is no food banks everywhere
They are in my neck of the woods:

https://www.kqed.org/news/11707330/a...g-volunteering
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Old 14th June 2019, 06:41 AM   #3982
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Even though there is income disparity and some super wealthy people in the US, you would have to look carefully to find people who are actually starving or dying of malnutrition. People can utilize food stamps, food banks, soup lines and other resources to get food.

In a no money society, people won't be forced to work so there will be less production which will result in less food, therefore the possibility of people actually starving.

Us is considered as a rich country with a lot of millionneers maybe someone can get food by begging but there is more than food necessary to make people confortable as you, the rest of what you wrote is fabulation
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Old 14th June 2019, 07:01 AM   #3983
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Us is considered as a rich country with a lot of millionneers maybe someone can get food by begging but there is more than food necessary to make people confortable as you, the rest of what you wrote is fabulation
Awesome. Now please address the deficit in hours worked as I've explained. People will extract more work than they put in as measured in hours.
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Old 14th June 2019, 07:39 AM   #3984
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Us is considered as a rich country with a lot of millionneers maybe someone can get food by begging but there is more than food necessary to make people confortable as you, the rest of what you wrote is fabulation
You know less about the U.S. than you do about economics, and that's really saying something.

https://www.feedingamerica.org/

https://www.feedingamerica.org/about-us/our-history

This is the program I've been involved with for years:

http://paduadiningroom.com/
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Old 14th June 2019, 07:56 AM   #3985
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Us is considered as a rich country with a lot of millionneers maybe someone can get food by begging but there is more than food necessary to make people confortable as you, the rest of what you wrote is fabulation
The US isn't the only country with religious abusing children. It happens all over the world.

You have nothing to say about it?
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Old 14th June 2019, 03:58 PM   #3986
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Gaetan, what do you think of this youth pastor sexually assaulting a child?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...=mmx&PC=EMMX20

Anything at all to say about it?
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Old 14th June 2019, 05:51 PM   #3987
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Us is considered as a rich country with a lot of millionneers maybe someone can get food by begging but there is more than food necessary to make people confortable as you, the rest of what you wrote is fabulation
Yes, in a rich country, there is some surplus. That's why even the poor have cable TV, internet and cell phones.

What kind of surplus do they have in Ethiopia where there is little money?

Gaetan, more money is normally better than less money. End of story.
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Old 15th June 2019, 08:02 AM   #3988
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Yes, in a rich country, there is some surplus. That's why even the poor have cable TV, internet and cell phones.

What kind of surplus do they have in Ethiopia where there is little money?

Gaetan, more money is normally better than less money. End of story.
You ignore the poverty and you give yourself clear conscience, in the story of the rich and Lazare the rich has a good life but not after he passed away.

Luke 6 The Beatitudes

20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said:

Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied.

“Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.

22 “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! 23 Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets.

Jesus Pronounces Woes

24 “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.
25 “Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry.

“Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep.

26 “Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets


As you see, it is no good to have money and it is better that it wouldn't exist for you and rich folks.

Last edited by Gaetan; 15th June 2019 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 15th June 2019, 10:57 AM   #3989
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So based of your understanding of Luke 6:25, people should stay hungry.

But Jesus fed the hungry.

So either Jesus is wrong, or you are.
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Old 15th June 2019, 12:08 PM   #3990
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You ignore the poverty and you give yourself clear conscience, in the story of the rich and Lazare the rich has a good life but not after he passed away.

Luke 6 The Beatitudes

20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said:

Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied.

“Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.

22 “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! 23 Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets.

Jesus Pronounces Woes

24 “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.
25 “Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry.

“Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep.

26 “Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets


As you see, it is no good to have money and it is better that it wouldn't exist for you and rich folks.
Why then are there millions of starving christians in the world? Does your jesus simply not care? Or is he so powerless that he can do nothing about it?
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Old 15th June 2019, 12:25 PM   #3991
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You ignore the poverty and you give yourself clear conscience,
"Youth pastor at Colorado Springs church arrested on suspicion of sexual assault of a child"

You ignore the child molestation and you give yourself clear conscience.

As Jesus said, "the laborer deserves his wages". Did he mean that the religiouos deserve to rape children? Is that their "wages"?
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Old 15th June 2019, 01:17 PM   #3992
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Why then are there millions of starving christians in the world? Does your jesus simply not care? Or is he so powerless that he can do nothing about it?
He advises the rich to share with poor but they don't listen.
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Old 15th June 2019, 05:52 PM   #3993
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
He advises the rich to share with poor but they don't listen.
What does he advise about abusing children? We already know he advised that "the laborer deserves his wages".

It's religion that must be abolished. We'll use money to do it.
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Old 15th June 2019, 08:32 PM   #3994
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
He advises the rich to share with poor but they don't listen.
So your jesus is actually powerless to do anything about it. OK
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Old 16th June 2019, 01:26 AM   #3995
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
So your jesus is actually powerless to do anything about it. OK
Mt 13 ESV

The Parable of the Weeds

24 He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds[c] among the wheat and went away. 26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27 And the servants[d] of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
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Old 16th June 2019, 12:34 PM   #3996
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You ignore the poverty and you give yourself clear conscience, in the story of the rich and Lazare the rich has a good life but not after he passed away.
You know why the scriptures want everyone to be miserable and poor? So they will have hope that the unproven "afterlife" will be better. There is no attempt to make life better for the here and now. Any attempts to make there here and now better is viewed as selfish. It's all, of course, a lie, because the people selling this lie aren't, themselves, actually poor.

So perhaps you will take a good long look at the deficit in hours worked your idea would create, and that deficit will manifest in good and services not being available. It's going to kill people, wholesale. And you know this, because you refuse to address it. All while pretending it will be moral.
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Old 16th June 2019, 12:43 PM   #3997
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Mt 13 ESV

The Parable of the Weeds
Timothy 5:18 - "A worker should be given his pay".

Luke 10:7 - "the labourer is worthy of his hire"

Matthew 10:10 - "for the workman is worthy of his meat"

Deuteronomy 24:15 - "thou shalt give him his hire...lest he cry against thee unto the Lord, and it be sin unto thee."

Gaetan 6:16 - "Jesus is a liar"
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Old 16th June 2019, 12:52 PM   #3998
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Timothy 5:18 - "A worker should be given his pay".
Timothy is that the one who served in the navy?
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Old 16th June 2019, 01:02 PM   #3999
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
So your jesus is actually powerless to do anything about it. OK
Mt 13 ESV

The Parable of the Weeds

24 He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds[c] among the wheat and went away. 26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27 And the servants[d] of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
What? Instead of addressing the question asked, you are going to cite a bible parable demonstrating that your jesus is weaker than weeds. Really?

Sure. I agree. Your jesus is indeed defeated by mere weeds. Now what?
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Old 16th June 2019, 01:07 PM   #4000
RoboTimbo
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Timothy is that the one who served in the navy?
Are you asking about that youth pastor who abused the two children? Or one of the innumerable other instances of religious abusing children?
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